anyone don't see the point in being in a relationship if it's not leading to mariage?

January 6, 2015

I'm not talking about just casual dating. I'm talking about a serious relationship with "I love yous" and living together and all that jazz. I just don't see a point in doing it anymore unless it's actually going to lead to something more.

I'm currently in a "serious" relationship and it's starting to seem sort of destined to fail.

She doesn't know if she ever wants to get married to anyone, and I'm the type that (eventually when the time is right) wants to settle down. Now I'm not knocking her beliefs or anything, it's totally fine she feels that way. But I dont.

So it led me to this question...

Do you guys think there is a point to serious relationships If the outcome isn't marriage?

January 6, 2015

Yes. Partnership that hopefully lasts a lifetime but there are no guarantees. I think not getting married is just an acknowledgment that many relationships - including marriages - don't last the distance. You can be still committed to that one person and settle down, no desire to date anyone else ever again but want the other person to be with you out of choice and not because that piece of paper makes it so hard to separate your assets.

January 6, 2015

Do you guys think there is a point to serious relationships If the outcome isn't marriage?

Depends of your culture and religious belief. If it's important to you then look for someone with the same values.

I am from a culture where people don't marry anymore but live common-law. I have a brother been with his common-law 25 years, 3 kids, house, the whole-chabang, not married. Same with most people I know.

The real question is does she want a real commitment? Does she want a long-term partner and children? Is she against marriage because she is not religious or because she thinks it's just a worthless piece of paper? What is the meaning of marriage to you?

January 6, 2015

Lots of people here live together for decades, even have children, without marrying. Sometimes they do marry later in life, sometimes they don't. Some do marry fairly quickly but there isn't the sense of urgency that I see on LS or in more traditional cultures.

I think a big part of it is how common law or de facto relationships are treated in your local laws. Here they have almost equivalent benefits (and liabilities) to marriage, legally, so the motivation to marry is largely social/personal/religious. On the other hand, some places like the US don't legally recognize common law AFAIK, so that changes things a bit.

That being said, if you are certain you want marriage in the future and she doesn't, she's probably not the one for you.

January 6, 2015

Depends of your culture and religious belief. If it's important to you then look for someone with the same values.

I am from a culture where people don't marry anymore but live common-law. I have a brother been with his common-law 25 years, 3 kids, house, the whole-chabang, not married. Same with most people I know.

The real question is does she want a real commitment? Does she want a long-term partner and children? Is she against marriage because she is not religious or because she thinks it's just a worthless piece of paper? What is the meaning of marriage to you?

Her problem is all the marriages shes seen in her life have failed. All the marriages I've seen in my life have failed too, but I want to be in a marriage that doesn't. Marriage to me is just the ultimate bond with someone in my opinion. It's not just a piece of paper to me. It's a unity saying you love someone that much, that you don't wanna be without. I'm not religious or anything, but I feel like it brings a relatonship even closer. Otherwise, your just seriously dating forever IMO

At the same time, I don't want to end a relatonship just because I'm thinking extremely far in the future (I don't want to get married for at least another 7-10 years. But I don't want to waste anymore time on relationships than I already have in my life

Edited January 6, 2015 by kidinfo1

January 6, 2015

At the same time, I don't want to end a relatonship just because I'm thinking extremely far in the future (I don't want to get married for at least another 7-10 years. But I don't want to waste anymore time on relationships than I already have in my life

This would place you in a rather difficult situation IMO, as most women who are absolutely certain that they want to marry are unlikely to want to wait 10 years for it. Unless you are very young - but it doesn't sound like you are.

Given this new piece of information, I think you should stick to women who are ambivalent or on the fence about marriage, like your gf, because who knows what your decision will be 10 years from now. It's too soon to worry about that now IMO.

January 6, 2015

I also think that marriage isn't here for your convenience OP. From what I've seen, when a man really wants to get married to a woman, he wants to do that reasonably quickly. No man I know has ever said 'I met the love of my life, I'll marry her in 10 years' time.' You either want to do it or not.

In my personal life, every man that considered marrying me brought this up within a year.

January 6, 2015

So she is for common-law living? Does she want to live with her man? Does she want children with that man?

Makes me smile when people say they don't want to marry because most marriage fail but they're ok with common-law living. If you live common-law with someone for lets say 10 years, have children and assets together, and that relationship ends, she thinks it will hurt less? Failing at a marriage or failing at a common-law union is the same hurt, same failure, same difficulties to split everything.

January 6, 2015

I would answer your question with a question.

If you're in a serious relationship, living together with ILY's etc, then what benefit is there to getting married? Do you think the relationship is more likely to last longer if you are legally bound to each other?

January 6, 2015

I would answer your question with a question.

If you're in a serious relationship, living together with ILY's etc, then what benefit is there to getting married? Do you think the relationship is more likely to last longer if you are legally bound to each other?

No but I think it shows commitment and certainty that it's the relationship and person you want to be with. I think it's a beautiful experience. And yes I am young (23) which is why I say 7-10 years. But I only say that because I know now a days, people get weirded out by marriage. I wouldn't mind if it was sooner. Plus I want a stable career and life before I jump into that. But, it'd be nice to know the person I am building my life with ultimatley wants to end up with me.

Like I said, I'm not knocking her belief, but it's just not something I agree with. And it's making me question things which led me to the question in the OP

January 6, 2015

I see you look at marriage like you look at buying a house. A marriage does not need career or financial stability to happen. It's a commitment with no $ value.

I got married at 20. We were young, he was just starting in the army, we had nothing under our feet. Our marriage was a promise to grow together, go through life hardships together, to obtain careers and financial stability with each other's support.

People that put a price to getting married or having children never get it. There is never a perfect moment. You are ready in your heart to do it and to commit to it, or you're not.

January 6, 2015

No but I think it shows commitment and certainty that it's the relationship and person you want to be with. I think it's a beautiful experience. And yes I am young (23) which is why I say 7-10 years. But I only say that because I know now a days, people get weirded out by marriage. I wouldn't mind if it was sooner. Plus I want a stable career and life before I jump into that. But, it'd be nice to know the person I am building my life with ultimatley wants to end up with me.

Like I said, I'm not knocking her belief, but it's just not something I agree with. And it's making me question things which led me to the question in the OP

That's just the desire to control. There are absolutely no guarantees in life, 50% of marriages in the west end up in divorce.

January 6, 2015

I see you look at marriage like you look at buying a house. A marriage does not need career or financial stability to happen. It's a commitment with no $ value.

I got married at 20. We were young, he was just starting in the army, we had nothing under our feet. Our marriage was a promise to grow together, go through life hardships together, to obtain careers and financial stability with each other's support.

People that put a price to getting married or having children never get it. There is never a perfect moment. You are ready in your heart to do it and to commit to it, or you're not.

That's a good way to put it, I see where you're coming from.

I don't mean to put a price or monetary value on it, I just look at it from the point of view that, yes you were my responsibility to take care of before, but now I'm REALLY supposed to be able to take care of you (provide a house, stable life, etc), which I obviously can't do at a young age. I see marriage as a grown up "next-step" in a relationship after you've grown together. You're both ready to take it to that next level and actually start a whole new life. Idk maybe I've just been looking at it wrong?

January 6, 2015

That's just the desire to control. There are absolutely no guarantees in life, 50% of marriages in the west end up in divorce.

That's a scary number lol. And I don't think, in my case at least, it's the desire to control. I don't want to control anyone, which is why I'm not trying to change her beliefs. I just genuinely want to be with someone who wants that next step as well.

For the record, I never brought marriage up to her, she just mentioned something like that in passing when her friend was talking about it and it got me to thinking

January 6, 2015

No but I think it shows commitment and certainty that it's the relationship and person you want to be with.

If you've got a really good relationship worthy of standing the test of time, shouldn't you already have 100% certainty you both feel that way already? If marriage is the only way you can think of to show each other that, maybe you could be communicating better? Or thinking of something more original and unique to you as a couple?

On that note, does anyone else find it really amusing that so many people desire marriage and believe it shows a lifelong commitment, but are against getting a partner's name tattooed on them because 'that's permenant'?

January 6, 2015

I married a second time, but if not for some practical benefits we needed, we'd have continued to live together. We were already as committed to each other as a married couple (our relationship then and now is better than 99% of others we know or hear of), and neither of us think marriage is generally a good idea.

January 6, 2015

At your age relationships are about learning, growing, enjoying companionship and sex. It doesn't have to be forever just a happy time in your life when you look back. Marriage usually indicates a higher level of commitment.

January 6, 2015

That's a good way to put it, I see where you're coming from.

I don't mean to put a price or monetary value on it, I just look at it from the point of view that, yes you were my responsibility to take care of before, but now I'm REALLY supposed to be able to take care of you (provide a house, stable life, etc), which I obviously can't do at a young age. I see marriage as a grown up "next-step" in a relationship after you've grown together. You're both ready to take it to that next level and actually start a whole new life. Idk maybe I've just been looking at it wrong?

First you have very old fashion views on marriage. You do not have to provide a house and stable life because you are male. A marriage is an equal legal and moral contract between 2 people to provide to the marriage. Her as much as you.

Now be careful. Lets say you wait 10 years to get married. In the next 10 years you cumulate savings, a house, retirement money etc. She spends the next 10 years piling debts on her credit cards. You get married. You are responsible for her debts, they can come and get you. Lets say It does not work and 5 years later you divorce. What do you think is going to happen to the assets you've accumulate in the past 10 years? You better have a bullet proof prenup.

You're 23 yo now. You just want to date for the next 10 years? I doubt your gf is going to go along with that. I bet you in a couple of years she will annoy the heck out of you with baby talk.

January 6, 2015

I just look at it from the point of view that, yes you were my responsibility to take care of before, but now I'm REALLY supposed to be able to take care of you (provide a house, stable life, etc)

You mean, you're legally and socially obligated to look after your spouse (whether financially or emotionally)? Does obligation make a stronger relationship? I would say you have it backwards. If you're looking after your spouse because you're legally or socially obligated to do so then you're relationship is already over.

I see marriage as a grown up "next-step" in a relationship

That's a common viewpoint amongst people who've never been married. Those of us who have, can see that it's not true. If a relationship is good then it doesn't need a legal bond. The "next step" can just as easily be buying a house together, having kids, making mirror wills, etc. Those things show just as much commitment, and have practical value too.

January 6, 2015

No, marriage is not needed to have a serious long lasting relationship. With 50% of marriages failing here in the US (give or take), how can one still have this mindset? Society is changing, and the emphasis on marriage and family has shifted. It's a view that has been passed by, and the numbers are a strong indicator of this. That is how I look at it.

Don't get caught up in traditions, what always has worked, clearly doesn't work anymore for at least half of the people. The idea of marriage is not flawed, marriage in itself is not something that is bad or corrosive to a relationship, it is just simply not needed anymore.

Holding on to such an idea, knowing you're abandoning your partner by doing so, is really contradicting your own wishes. Your "abandoning" or questioning your current serious long-term relationship, because you want a serious long-term relationship. To me, that does not make sense.

As for the religious aspect of it, do you go to church every Sunday? No? Another tradition abandoned... Yes? Then I can understand the need to get married, as it is considered a proper way to form an adult relationship within your community.

January 6, 2015

When I was young I dated anybody and for any reason, never gave thought to if it was leading to marriage/kids/settling down etc etc...

As I got older and had been through enough failed 1-5 year relationships to realize that I may have wasted some of my "good" years on women who had no long term potential, even though I learned from every relationship I was in I also learned to adjust my thinking and put in the "is this leading to or have marriage potential?" in my list of must haves..

I did as I got older only look at possible relationships if they were going in the right direction for marriage.. I figured that I wanted a wife and kid one day and wanted to be married and not divorced while raising the kid so it became more of a must have...

So yeah.. I did throw away a few possible relationships because they weren't going in the right direction as I didn't have my whole life in front of me any longer, isn't dating in the thoughts of the end game about a process of going through the steps to finally being married ?

January 6, 2015

The 50% of marriages ending in divorce statistic is a bit misleading. This number includes the ridiculous marriages such as those who have only known each other for 2 days and then get married. Of course those will very likely end in divorce. A very stable marriage built on years of courtship, good financial stability, love and mutual respect will likely do much better. They should have a separate statistic for those who have dated for at least 5 years, have a six figure household income and children.

January 6, 2015

When I was young I dated anybody and for any reason, never gave thought to if it was leading to marriage/kids/settling down etc etc...

As I got older and had been through enough failed 1-5 year relationships to realize that I may have wasted some of my "good" years on women who had no long term potential, even though I learned from every relationship I was in I also learned to adjust my thinking and put in the "is this leading to or have marriage potential?" in my list of must haves..

I did as I got older only look at possible relationships if they were going in the right direction for marriage.. I figured that I wanted a wife and kid one day and wanted to be married and not divorced while raising the kid so it became more of a must have...

So yeah.. I did throw away a few possible relationships because they weren't going in the right direction as I didn't have my whole life in front of me any longer, isn't dating in the thoughts of the end game about a process of going through the steps to finally being married ?

Same, the older I got the more selective I have become. When I was younger I would go for different types of guys and it helps narrow down what I want and don't want in a person. I've not had year long relationships, usually I know within a couple months if it is going to go anywhere. It's a bit like taking something for a test drive before committing to buying but there are no guarantees with marriage, weddings rings do come off. You may trade them in for something new in the future and they may also do the same. I've always thought that marriage and babies aren't for me.. but who knows maybe someday I'll meet someone who can change my mind.

January 6, 2015

The 50% of marriages ending in divorce statistic is a bit misleading. This number includes the ridiculous marriages such as those who have only known each other for 2 days and then get married. Of course those will very likely end in divorce. A very stable marriage built on years of courtship, good financial stability, love and mutual respect will likely do much better.They should have a separate statistic for those who have dated for at least 5 years, have a six figure household income and children.

There will be always responsible and irresponsible people, that's the whole point. For someone to think that marriage will provide some kind of definite security for the future, they have to think again since you have to account for the human factor. Whether it's marrying on the whim or marrying a cheater or someone financially irresponsible or finding out that the other person can't have kids or have changed their mind, etc etc etc. There is no such a thing as predictable 'very stable'. There are billions of people with billions of issues. Commitment to any of them for 40 years is very hard which is why many don't make it.

January 6, 2015

Not sure about marriage but I don't date anymore unless there is a serious long term potential. Otherwise, it's a waste of time. I am concious that we all have limited time here and time should be invested wisely. For example, the time I would put into a going-nowhere relationship, I can put into work, friendships or family. Also as I get older, going-nowhere relationships are easier to spot.

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anyone don't see the point in being in a relationship if it's not leading to mariage?

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