dragonwalker Posted January 6, 2015 Posted January 6, 2015 Hello, I live in a house with several room mates, several which are girls that I have gotten along with quite well in the past 6 months. I enjoy their company and talk regularly. A common reoccurring theme they talk about is relationships and occasionally I'm asked about my own experiences and thoughts which I always lie about (more about this later). Part of the reason I enjoy talking to them is so that I can continue to become more comfortable talking to women and working on my confidence. During this time I have always tried to watch what I say about myself to project some more confidence and work on maintaining a high level of confidence. Then, just the other day, another one of the guy's we live with was talking about a new girl that he is seeing. I was listening, talking and participating in the conversation when I was asked a question for the billionth time by the girls, "You see, he (the other room mate) has a girlfriend, why don't you have one." Usually responding with the "oh I haven't found anyone compatible" or any of the other well rehearsed lines. After 6 months of trying to get the words out right so to speak, I blurted out almost instinctively that "I'm waiting until I have more to offer." I thought at the moment that was fine and then in under a minute I realized what a horrible ode to self deprecation I had just made. There was a few minutes of lingering silence until everyone just pretended to move on. I realized what a humiliating thing I said like an omission of guilt. I wanted to tell this story to provide a sense of my frame of mind currently. I realize that these girls were only room mates that I wasn't trying to pursue anything with but it's still an opportunity to "practice" which I feel like I have utterly botched. A bit about me. I have always had very low self esteem to the point that I'm now 26 and have never been in any relationship or even engaged in any physical relationships although I'm straight and have all the usual guy desires, cravings, etc. I know that by outward appearance there isn't anything that should stop me from this goal but for various reasons I have failed. I'm not much for trying to go out to some club to meet people so I haven't really done that, I've tried traditional non-night scenes venues, been upfront, been creative, tried the online thing for a bit, complete failure. Sad story, my own mother jokes that I might be gay but not sure because although I don't meet any girls, I haven't brought along any men. I've graduated from college, consider myself smart, I'm not really shy (for goodness sakes I have a sales type job), decent job, saving money to buy my own place, I've been told I look good but truly I'm sure just average/decent. I'm very responsible probably to a fault. Could it be that I have just been that unlucky? I've sought professional help though a few psychologist and therapists which all have great ideas but fail to really do anything for me. I try to rationalize my predicament by saying that I should get more education, make more money, do something to look better, and try to find some other mysterious fault about myself to eliminate. To be blunt, what the hell should I do? One last thing I've thought of recently is to get a dating coach. I've tried to approach my issues as scientifically as possible with the psychologists but I'm thinking a more practical approach may do me some good. One thing that kind of irks me is that I always get stereotyped as the geeky (which I am) kid and I think I just get written off. I truly don't think I'm that bad but another fault real or imagined that has always been with me. For those of you who thing a dating coach might be of use. Any recommendations in the Los Angeles area (also how sad, of all places in the world to have this issue). Just imagine if I was in Siberia I'm sure I'd be closer to some female bear. Thanks for reading.
Frank2thepoint Posted January 6, 2015 Posted January 6, 2015 First off, why haven't you ever asked your roommates if they know someone they can hook you up with for a date? Second, what is the cause/source of your low self-esteem? Because you are not really shy, and you have a sales job, so there is a certain amount of confidence you have, that you are not tapping into concerning women, and nurturing it. Third, what makes you "geeky"? Many women actually find geeky/nerdy guys attractive, and prefer them over the rambunctious extroverts. Try to find women that have similar interests/hobbies as you, that would be conducive to meeting a woman to date.
oldshirt Posted January 6, 2015 Posted January 6, 2015 A few points in no particular order - - consider it a good sign that they ask you why you don't have a GF. when people never ask that question it's because they already know why you don't have one. - I think the dating coach idea is good. You are educated, employed, responsible, a good person, not diseased, disfigured or deformed and you are able to talk to and interact on a personal level with people so there is no foundational reason reason that no one would date you. You simply need a coach to teach you some of the basic techniques and "plays" of the game just like any other coach. - seeing a therapist/counselor for the self-esteem issues may be benificial as well. Leave the dating issues to the coach but a more professional evaluation and treatment of the underlying self esteem issues may be very benificial in all areas of you life, not just in dating. - and finally I would suggest not trying to portray yourself as some kind of ladies man to your roomies. I actually think you made a big break-through step in admitting your challenge. Unless your roomies are totally self-absorbed, superficial buttholes that would mock you or rub salt in to your wounds, I think you should be open and honest with them and come clean with them and ask for their help and support. Their assistance and guidance may prove to be valuable as they can help you dress and look more stylish and can help with how you interact with women and may even have some friends and associates that they could introduce you to. The cat is out of the bag now anyway so rather than look totally pathetic trying to cover your tracks and try to look like something you are not, be honest with them and ask for their assistance and support.
preraph Posted January 6, 2015 Posted January 6, 2015 I know you've already tried it, but I still think the right therapist is your best hope. This kind of bad self-esteem needs to be continuously plumbed and aired and understood so that you can process it and maybe change sometime. Good luck.
Author dragonwalker Posted January 6, 2015 Author Posted January 6, 2015 (edited) @oldshirt, is there a online resource where I can read reviews on a dating coach, how can I do research on someone to pick without just taking a chance. Generally speaking, do you think I should seek a coach that is a man or woman? Maybe I should ask in a separate thread? I did see a therapist and psychologist for some time perhaps about 2 years total, they worked on various issues including anxiety in these situations, personally I judge this time to be of low benefit. I never tried to portray myself as a ladies man, not once did I indulge in the lie by bringing the subject up myself. I tried to use it as a defense mechanism to avoid ridicule or even more "curiosity" as it is a source of embarrassment. If I am asked I usually say I had one in college and we broke up because of distance, lol it gets tricky when they ask sometimes for other details like how they look like and etc (funny story about that). @Frank2thepoint, I haven't asked my room mates because it seems a bit desperate to me and I don't want to make things awkward if they did in fact know someone but then I'm living in the same house as their friend so it's like I'd never have any privacy. About the self-esteem, the therapist I was with seems to harken back to my childhood experiences with my mother and not having that positive feedback from her (although I'm reluctant to play this blame game) but I've taken this advice in stride and tried to take some corrective action as far as my mental self-image, it has helped some. Yes, I do feel when I do my job and when I talk to women and men alike at work or in a non-sexual environment I feel like I do well and I am comfortable expressing myself. It's when I make a conscious effort to try and go beyond these interactions to develop something that I have feelings of doubt, inadequateness, shame, and embarrassment. I feel I have trouble translating my confidence at work because I don't see myself as a sexual person. Meaning I think I've been so unsuccessful for so long that I feel de-masculinized which undermines my approaches to finding someone. About the geeky part, well that comes from some of the things I like such as Star Trek, making plastic models, I'm a big on the personal finance (saving/maximizing money) which leads to spend less money on material things like I bring my lunch everyday, ride my bicycle to work, like to focus on details, much more of the academic type than my peers, and I'm east Asian which I really think fuels that even more. Now I know none of these items taken separately creates this geeky/nerdy part but put together I know it can have that effect. I'm condiment in saying that it's not obvious and I keep it well under control and try to frame these aspects of my personality not as a part that dominates my life. However I feel this way because I am characterized like this from the feedback I get from friends and people who know me. Edited January 6, 2015 by dragonwalker
oldshirt Posted January 8, 2015 Posted January 8, 2015 @oldshirt, is there a online resource where I can read reviews on a dating coach, how can I do research on someone to pick without just taking a chance. Generally speaking, do you think I should seek a coach that is a man or woman? I don't know how many legitimate professional dating coaches there are in the world, if any. Nor do I have any shortcuts to finding one. What I can offer though is that there are probably people in your family or social circle that can offer very valid assistance and support. If you have a trusted female friend or relative that is very attractive and popular and has good style and tastes, she may be a very good resource to help you get polished up and get some updated styling and wardrobe and such. She may also offer some valuable info on what women are attracted to and what turns them off and she may well have some single friends that she could introduce you to. She may make a fine dating coach. The caveat with female friends however is they will often try to form you into a "nice guy" and make you "safe" and nonthreatening. They often also have a tendency to make you into someone safe and nonthreatening that they can set up with their socially inept, fat girlfriends that can't get dates on their own. In other words they have a tendency to try to engineer an inexperienced and awkward guy into someone they can match up to an equally or even more inexperienced and awkward gal. So I while I do encourage you to seek the assistance of a stylish, popular woman to help get you polished up and presentable, I also encourage you to find a popular and successful guy who has solid dating experience and success and is someone that you see as a positive role model. That guy can help become more assertive and embrace positive masculine traits and behaviors and support you to take risks and assert yourself and overcome some of your fear of appearing "creepy" and fear of making someone uncomfortable. I'm being blatantly sexist here to make a point but women will try to make you safe and nonthreatening. Safe and nonthreatening "Nice Guys" languish in the friendzone and not achieve the sexual component of relationships that separates a GF/BF from a platonic social friend. Dating and sexuality are threatening and discomforting. You have to be able to embrace and live with a certain degree of risk and discomfort. Men can really only learn how to balance that from other men. 1
oldshirt Posted January 8, 2015 Posted January 8, 2015 . I feel I have trouble translating my confidence at work because I don't see myself as a sexual person. Meaning I think I've been so unsuccessful for so long that I feel de-masculinized which undermines my approaches to finding someone. . This is what I was talking about in terms of masculinity. These are things that must be learned from other men. Masculine traits such as assertiveness, competitiveness, dominance, initiative, flirtation, banter, seduction etc etc are learned from other men. To continue my suggestion from above, I also encourage you to get out and do guy stuff with other guys. spend time with other men pursuing hobbies and activities with other men and learn to adopt some of their traits as it pertains to assertiveness, courage, competitiveness, dominance, talking to women, flirting with women, initiating dates etc etc. Women have a selection process that begins long before eye contact and any conversation has begun. Women have a "YES" category, a "NO" category and a "MAYBE" category. one of the first factors that determines if someone immediately goes into the 'yes' or 'maybe' catagories is how men respond to another man. If a man is liked and admired and respected by other men that she already has in the "YES" category, then that guy will almost always at minimum start out in the "MAYBE" category. If a guy is disliked, not respected or is completely invisible to other men, that guy will immediately go into the "NO" category regardless of what other traits and characteristics he may have. There's nothing wrong with being somewhat geeky and like Star Trek and crap (I'm a bit of a trekker myself) but you have to get off of the Xbox and out of the basement and get out and do some male activities and some male bonding and establish rapport and respect with other men.
Author dragonwalker Posted January 9, 2015 Author Posted January 9, 2015 @oldshirt, thanks for the advice. It really makes sense to me and it makes sense to me. I have tried to get the advice from a female friend but hasn't been very helpful probably because I feel she cares to much about my feelings and I think I'm not getting any honest answers besides just needing to get out more. I totally agree about the doing activities and bonding that way from other guys deal. One obstacle I encounter a lot are the things I like to do seem to draw other guys similar to me and although it's fun it's the classic birds of a feather flock together situation where I'm trapped in a bubble. Earlier last year I've tried breaking this pattern a bit, even trying out some Brazilian JiuJitsu which was really great and motivational but stopped because it is to expensive. I'm trying to work out more and I think it helped that I lost a lot of weight from before so at least physically I look much better. The psychological part is really the most tough and it always has been. Thankfully I feel that I've never been disliked or not respected by other guys. In fact I generally get along and don't have a issue with not getting respect so that much is under control. I know I'm going to need to try some more things and fail a few times.
Danda Posted January 9, 2015 Posted January 9, 2015 I agree with oldshirt's overall message, as far as you needing to change your confidence and approach but not who you are as a person or your interests. Confusing the two as culprits will mess you up. There are plenty of geeky/nerdy women in the world, I am one of them and have had several geeky/nerdy female friends. That is not your problem, so pretending to like football instead of Star Trek will just leave you in the same rut, only as a fake-ass liar to boot. Seducing a gal who likes StarWars or cosplay conventions is going to be the same at its core as seducing a woman who likes (insert just about anything here). Hobbies and interests can vary quite a bit and help you add flavor to your flirtations, but primal instinct is damn near universal.
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