Can't understand why it's over - very confused and depressed...what to do?

March 26, 2005

Would welcome any advice on my situation. Have been unable to properly eat, sleep, work or concentrate for months - my life has totally crashed around me.

Girlfriend broke up with me recently. We had been together for 4 years - 2 years were spent living together in NYC, then 1 year long-distance with her working in Switzerland, then 1 year long-distance with her at law school in Toronto. She still has 1 more year of law school at Toronto left but planned to then return to NYC. Though long-distance was tough, we made a very good effort to see each other once a month and would talk daily for at least 30 minutes plus swap emails. And we were extremely close and committed to each other with plenty of romance. We had mapped out our future together and everything was happening the way we hoped. Her family and friends think highly of me and I have been very supportive (emotionally, intellectually and financially) of her goals which was important for those times when she was struggling. She is 34 and I am 33. Before me, she had two serious relationships - the first for 6 years where she dumped the guy because "he was a layabout" and the second for 2 years with a guy that treated her badly. In contrast, she always emphasized that she appreciated my relative success and stability.

Then she suddenly tells me over the phone that it's over. Came as a complete shock - we sent each other mushy emails only the day before. I offered to do absolutely anything she wanted including moving to Toronto but to no avail. Pleaded with her to think things over but to no effect. She cannot give me a clear reason why she is doing this - says that distance was the initial cause but it's now more than that and cannot be fixed. She says that I am "perfect for her on paper", "the best person she has ever dated" and "the most compatible person she has ever met or is likely to ever meet". She wishes she could want to be with me and want to marry me but she doesn't feel this way anymore. Her head tells her that she is making a big mistake but she is following her heart. She says that she still loves me and cares about me but now "like a brother".

She wants to remain good friends. And we have continued to be on good terms, talking every week (note she usually contacts me) and sending each other occasional emails. She still asks and values my advice on nearly every important matter. I even helped her with several important items after we had broken up. When we talk it's so obvious how well we click. And when she visited NYC a short while ago we met for dinner and had a great time (plenty of hand-holding, gazing into each others eyes and kissing!). When I raised this she replied that "I always have a fun time when I am with you". But a couple of days later I got a frosty thank you email from her. Then she hinted that if she moves to Switzerland after law school maybe we should get married and move there together. So some mixed signals. However, since those episodes, she has reverted to very deliberately acting like a friend. The tone of her voice and emails is more formal and distant. She is adamant that she will never change her mind about us. And she is convinced that she will find someone else "within the next 2 years".

Some observations...she now has far more friends than before so belongs to a wider, deeper, new social circle which I am not in due to distance. Law school is intense and she has been under a lot of stress. This is an important time in her life. She is also mixing with people a lot younger than her (25-28) so maybe this is influencing her. Her sister thinks she is making the wrong decision but has been unable to persuade her to reconsider. Her suggestion to me was to stay on friendly terms and see what happens albeit it could take over a year to rekindle if indeed it ever does. Her sister even said "she may need to date a couple of jerks before she realises how good you are for her". I know that she is not currently involved with another guy. And any other guy would need to accept her particular requirements in a partner (which I do) but is not easy in my humble opinion - comfortable to have children only when she is nearly 40, enthusiastic about also adopting children, able to move geographically around with her, willing to defer to her in virtually everything.

I am hurting a lot. She is my first true love. I really believe that she is the one special person for me and that I am the special person for her. Why would she throw everything away when we are so close to realizing our dreams? I want to believe that it is less about me and rather a reflection of her current situation. But maybe I am deluding myself? What can I do to keep hope alive? Thank you very much for any thoughts you may have.

March 26, 2005

I would give her the gift of "missing you"... NO CONTACT whatsover... that may be the only thing that can get her to choose what she isdoing longterm... love is always WHAT YOU DO, not what you say (because people talk, talk, talk... but ACTIONS speak louder than words)...

Love is commitment... non-binding commitment would be a contradiction of terms... my ex-gf broke up, still said she loved me, still invited me to visit her on her international trip... but less than three weeks later she was having sex with someone else... three weeks later it was sex with yet another person... call me old fashioned or assign whatever label you want, but I am not waiting around for a slutty person.

She must act like an adult in all this. Appeal to her to do that. But always prepare for the worst... otherwise, you may end up shattered or in limbo when you could have been healing. Act with courage.

Woman are amazing... but they are truly strange.

Hang in there, friend.

Chico

March 26, 2005

I'm with the 'no contact' thing too, unless you are happy being the 'back burner backup plan'. When she hints at you getting married down the line, she is keeping you on the hook in case she doesn't find someone else she wants to be with. She wants you, but only in the sense that you might be useful later on.

If you want to be there for her, then be there for her. But her behavior won't change. She'll continue to be this way because this type of 'relationship' is all she wants and needs from you right now. When you are getting what you want and need from someone, you don't go out of your way to change the comfortable status quo - and I don't expect she'll change her status quo with you anytime soon.

The only change that will be made will be the one you push her into making when you derail that status quo with 'no contact'. She'll either walk away, or she'll make an effort to take your needs into account in order to get you back. She will not have the 'back burner' option in her choices.

March 26, 2005

Thank you for your constructive feedback. It will take strength, patience and discipline to follow the advice. But I am very, very scared to lose contact with her. She has a distinctly stubborn personality so I firmly believe that if I eliminate contact with her she will completely turn her back on me and move on **even if she wants to get back in touch with me**, thereby pushing me away permanently. She is not the type of person to say sorry and ask that we try again - she would view that as weakness on her part and to be avoided even if she suffers as a result. Right now, I view every phone call or email as an opportunity to remind her in some indirect way of what a good partner I am for her and also to sense her feelings for any possible change of heart. That I am there to discuss/solve her problems, give her ideas, make her laugh, make her feel better has to count for something, right? At the very least when she is contemplating other guys to date I assume she will compare them to me and if I am still lurking fresh in her memory, that has to be a good thing doesn't it? Despite the fact that I tend to be open with my emotions, I have stopped begging her to reconsider or telling her how I feel - the puppy dog approach seems to only push her further away. I am trying to behave as more of the good friend that she wants me to be. I know that she knows how I feel about her and she knows how to contact me so no point in bringing up the topic anymore.

I had hinted that I would be interested in visiting her in Toronto for Easter. She told me that she did consider the idea, would have liked for me to come but that she was too busy. She had invited me to join her for a week's vacation in Europe this summer - "but please understand that it would be just as friends with no strings attached" and I had agreed. That may or may not happen. I suggested she visit NYC for a few days after her upcoming exams and she will be doing that although she told me that she will probably stay with a friend instead of with me (which is painful for me especially since I assumed she would stay with me). However, I know we will have a wonderful time, as always, and maybe it could rekindle some of the old feelings?...

Couple of other pieces of background info...

She tentatively broke up with me at the end of October 2004 after a very minor disagreement and I went to see her unannounced for 3 weeks in November in Toronto when I picked up a severe running injury. She did a fantastic job caring for me and helping me to heal. We had a great time together and she acknowledged this. Said she was therefore left confused about what she wanted between us. She agreed that she would think about our relationship and make a decision by the end of 2004. Throughout December our LDR proceeded in the same cutsie way it always had and I was feeling reassured. She then called me a couple of days before Christmas to spring the bad news on me. I had arranged to see her in Toronto for the New Year and we finally decided to go ahead with this since otherwise we would both be moping around lonely in different cities (but with the clear understanding that it would be "as friends"). We had a terrific time in so many ways but she maintained her position without even flinching once. Not one moment of hesitation or a single tear shed by her. She did promise me that if she was ever back living in NYC she would get back together with me "if I was available and interested". Now that it appears she may return to NYC next summer, I casually reminded her of this statement yesterday and she explained that she only said it to make me feel better so there is no truth to it. Ouch.

In terms of the support I have provided her, I helped her to get a summer job at a top law firm in Toronto, complete her work assignments when she was in Switzerland and numerous other things, including giving her US$25,000 to pay for her to go to law school (she will repay me as soon as she can although I have told her that I leave it to her discretion). Not that I ever expected anything in return - my support was always provided out of love, in a selfless and unconditional manner. And I stood by her as a loving partner when she was notably overweight...now she is petite and slender I am no longer part of the equation. I am hurt that such demonstrations of devotion to a person can be soo quickly and coldly ignored.

I suspect that she will run out of money by the end of this year and will need another US$5,000-10,000 to complete law school. She cannot get any more loans (she already has debts of approx. US$80,000). If she asks me for help, what should I do? I love her too much to let her dreams fail but is it fair and appropriate for me to stilll assist in this way?

When I spoke to her best friend in January about the break-up she told me that she did not think my ex-girlfriend was able to handle a relationship at this stage of her life - too much other stuff going on. She did say that the only reason she could come up with for the break-up was that my ex-girlfriend wanted to adopt children (in addition to having our own children) and I had been reluctant on this issue. So I did a lot of research on the topic and at the end of February, I told my ex-girlfriend that I was now much more positive about the idea. She firmly replied that she was happy for me but that this would not change her mind about us. I still think I did the right thing informing her though.

Today she is the center of attention and a rising star which makes me very proud but also sad since I have been discarded after playing an important role in allowing her to achieve her successes. The next 2-3 years of her life are in a state of flux. Today she is in Toronto but she could be in London to study for a few months this fall before returning to Toronto. Then, after graduating next summer, she may go to Switzerland or NYC or Ottawa or stay in Toronto. If she is in Ottawa that would be for one year only and she would then move to either Toronto or NYC afterwards. So a lot of volatility and uncertainty. Though I suspect this may be a possible cause for my woes (now she feels completely free and independent to move around globally without any "baggage" even though I have said that I am happy to travel with her wherever she goes) it could perhaps be a source of advantage to me if I continue to be one of the few points of stability in her life. She admitted yesterday to me that she is getting worried that "the clock is ticking" and she wants to be able to have a family before she reaches 40

I am from London and moved to NY about 5 years ago. So most of my time in NY was together with her. We kept a low-profile and spent most of our time together with only a few friends. As such, I lack a community of friends and have a very limited social life outside of work.

Is it so bad to be the back-up plan? It is indeed an emotional rollercoaster with no guaranteed happy ending but I'm convinced that she is worth it. She does still care about me and is attracted to me (physically, intellectually and emotionally). I wish I could understand why she is leaving me when everything was going so well for us. If she would have told me that, for example, I wasn't tall enough or clever enough or even that she had met someone better than me, at least I would have a tangible reason which would free me from the limbo I now feel myself trapped in.

I apologise for my lengthy messages. Again, thank you all for your kind, invaluable thoughts. They are truly appreciated.

April 2, 2005

Anyone have any more thoughts for me? I'm trying to do NC. Has now been 6 days.

April 2, 2005

romantic_fool....

I'm so sorry to hear about your situation. A few observations/opinions:

--if she is the type to never say she's sorry and to not look back, that strikes me as a pretty big issue. Not just in terms of whether she would walk away if you went to no contact, but if you stay with her long-term: how do you guys handle conflict?? does she always have to win?? If so, that doesn't seem healthy...

--if she should DARE ask you for more money to finish school, you should say NO NO NO NO and run the other way. What kind of selfish person would continue to ask you for sacrificial help/assistance on the one hand when they are pushing you away and ignoring your hurts and needs on the other? Ick!!!

--the entire situation, in which she is completely happy to use you for her own ends but seems oblivious to the pain it's causing you, seems really "off" to me.

Depending on how you handle the NC conversation, it seems like that's the very best thing you can do FOR YOU. You don't have to frame it as "punishment" for her crap behavior, but instead cast it as "for my own emotional health and sanity, I need to not be in contact with you. I hope you can understand that it's just too painful for me... please know too that should you change your mind and want to make a go of this, you can contact me.... but otherwise I think we need to be apart."

How are you going to feel if you accept being her back burner man, and then she turns around and marries somebody else??? Where is your dignity and self-respect and self-protection, man? (I don't mean that harshly but as an honest question--you may need to dig deep on this one. Coming from someone who is practicing NC w/ my ex--oh yes, every moment is painful. But I at least have the sense to protect myself from further emotional harm from this man!)

April 2, 2005

It sounds like maybe NC is the best plan for the time being. I am in a similar situation in the fact that my ex is very stubborn and even if he has a change of heart I doubt he'll come back. You also have to look at the other side of the coin and say well doesn't that mean that if I ask this person to come back they will see doing that as a failure in themselves? It sounds like a no win situation, but I think you have to accept that they will only come back on their own terms. Also somebody pointed out to me that people like our ex's are the kind of people who like to be the chaser not the chasee, so mabye in that sense NC could work.

It is so hard having this belife that you are meant to be together but the other person not being able to see it. I am trying to concentrate every waking hour on me at the moment, to try and take my mind off of the pain and also so that I know that if my ex does come back I will be in the best position I can be to restart a relationship. And if he doesn't then maybe by making changes in my life I will eventually set myself free. Do something you have never done before, it will make you feel better if only for a while.

April 2, 2005

Hi Romantic_fool,

I missed your thread earlier but today I read your thread line by line.Your story made me introspect as I could find my story in yours.What all you mentioned is exactly what happened to me.

I was in the backup plan for about 10 months and I used to think the same that let me try till the last day, I even had told her that I would be there with you till the day someone else comes into your life.

I always helped her the same way like you. But the 10 months was very bitter and I cried almost everday.For in the heart I wanted to be the man in her life and she treated me as a friend. I kept the status but it started hurting me when she found new friends, she was in business school so had a circle and I was at work so had limited social cirlce of colleagues.

She started getting more closer to her friends and day by day she started ignoring me, becoming rude to me but if I would stop contact then within the next couple of days she would call me and then I was back on track.

All these days I nursed the hope that in the end we would pair up.

But it never happened, I was never happy and it was more and more hurting for me to be in that position.She now started looking down upon me and the fellow guys from the school seemed to be good prospects for her. Imagine it was the same school for which I helped her to get admission .

She would never get time for me and all the time for other guys from her school. I always asked her that if there is someone in your life tell I will walk away but she always said no.

Somedays afterwards she started behaving in a strange way and was always looking for opporutnities to act rude to me. I got suspicious and one sunday morning I cracked her mail id and then I couldn't believe my eyes.There was this trip to Switzerland that she planned with me and later cancelled and I was like ok.But she had gone on that trip with the guy from her class whom she thought was the best in the world.Infact there were few emails which if I try to recall now would make me go mad.I had gone mad that time and went to hospital for 3 days.My whole story from start to end was of 7 years of my youth.

I am sure that your story would differ in the last part as your ex doesn't seem to be opportunistic and cheating types as mine was.But the point I was trying to make is that backup plan is never going to work out and will hurt you more than NC.

It will hurt your dignity, ego and your soul when you are treated like a backup. If one falls in his own eyes then it is most painful.

Try to do NC, if she wants you she would accept you as the Man in her life or if she doesn't come to you then she would never married you.

Best wishes

April 2, 2005

Eh..I forgot to write something.

I know that you think she needs your help so you should hang in with her but trust me, she needs your help only when you are there.When you are not there she would get things done anyway so atleast for this dont hurt yourself.

Best Wishes.

April 2, 2005

Romanic fool,

I must confess that I haven't read your whole post, but since I am in law school now and in a LDR with my bf, I thought i'd put in my two cents.

1.) You mention that she's in law school and that she's under a lot of stress. There is truly a LOT stress in law school, but I don't think it's why she broke up with you. Firstly, no amount of stress could make me dump my BF if I loved him. In fact, I think I would become more clingly. Secondly, If she is already through her first year, then most of the stress is over and she's probably coasting.

2.) It sound suspiciously like she's cheating on you. Or wanted to date another person and that's why she broke it off. You say that she's had a lot of friends and she's in a big social circle. Plus, you are far away and she can't give any other reason.

3.) I think you should do NC. Not to get her back, but to get yourself back on your feet. She's being selfish, so you can too. Think of yourself and really consider whether you want to be with a person who is so unstable like this.

April 2, 2005

Originally posted by romantic_fool
She has a distinctly stubborn personality so I firmly believe that if I eliminate contact with her she will completely turn her back on me and move on **even if she wants to get back in touch with me**, thereby pushing me away permanently. She is not the type of person to say sorry and ask that we try again - she would view that as weakness on her part and to be avoided even if she suffers as a result.

If you are in love with someone, you will give in, because you are afraid of losing this wonderful person. I'm stubborn and sometimes I will insist that things go my way, but only with smaller. I would never risk losing someone because of being to unflexible.

April 3, 2005

She cannot give me a clear reason why she is doing this - says that distance was the initial cause but it's now more than that and cannot be fixed. She says that I am "perfect for her on paper", "the best person she has ever dated" and "the most compatible person she has ever met or is likely to ever meet". She wishes she could want to be with me and want to marry me but she doesn't feel this way anymore. Her head tells her that she is making a big mistake but she is following her heart.

I hate to be the one to say it (well, HoldOn already did and I think she is right), but it sounds suspiciously like you have been replaced. If her heart is not in being with you anymore, her heart is headed someplace else - bet on that.

I would recommend no contact. I don't even know that you have to have a big conversation about it. Just don't call. When she calls you, be busy, etc. Make clear to her that you want her in your life, but in a way that is meaningful. If she says that can't happen, just tell her you understand, make an excuse why you have to go, and hang up the phone. Don't call again.

If she truly loves you (more than the other guy she is probably doing, or wants to), she will call and have something meaningful to say. If she doesn't, well, at least you know where you stand, and you are not the backup plan anymore.

As someone who has been the "backup plan" on more than one occasion, I appreciate how bad it is. Just don't be willing to stay there, at least not without also pursuing your own life, going out with other women, and making an attempt to move on. If she doesn't respect you, and doesn't want you the way that you want her, there wasn't much there to begin with. I know it hurts, but sometimes the truth does hurt more than you can imagine. Just keep walking. The sun will come up the next day, and the world will not stop turning just because you are in pain. You need to keep turning with it, or you will lose track of who you are. Don't let that happen.

April 4, 2005

Thank you soooooo much for all of your lucid thoughts and advice. It really is a massive source of strength for me. And it does help to know that others are going through or have gone through similar episodes and emerged in one piece on the other side. It is unfortunate that any of us have to endure these traumatic experiences but I hope it results in something positive (admittedly I'm not sure what right now).

Now 8 days with NC. Not getting any easier to cope (tears are still plentiful) but I accept that it's the best philosophy. I confess that I am using it as a strategy to see if I can get her back rather than a way to heal. Some days are bad, some are worse and some are okay. I figure that she either (a) replaces me with someone that is better for her and makes her happier (in which case I am pleased for her since I want only the best for her); (b) has an "epiphany" and realises that I am the person she is meant to be with (in which case she knows how I feel about her and how to contact me); © she settles for someone that she does not rate as highly as me (which is her choice to make and to live with). I spoke with her sister a few days ago and she informed me that ex-girlfriend is behaving rather erratically at the moment - seemingly switching views at random and getting worked up about balances and conflicts between career/education/relationships/family. Maybe some soul-searching going on. If so, I think this is another reason for me to stick with NC so that she has the freedom to figure things out for herself without any undue influences or implicit pressures from me.

I like to believe that good things happen to good people, which means that all of us are in line for better times ahead.

April 4, 2005

I think this is another reason for me to stick with NC so that she has the freedom to figure things out for herself without any undue influences or implicit pressures from me.

that's great! I am glad you're sticking with NC. You will be better for it!

(While you are working through NC, you can think about whether you REALLY want to be with a person who would put you through this.)

April 4, 2005

Originally posted by HoldOn
(While you are working through NC, you can think about whether you REALLY want to be with a person who would put you through this.)

I think what you need to realise and we all need to realise is they are not doing anything to hurt 'us'! They are doing something to make 'them' feel better. I am hurt, I am devastated but one thing I can be sure of my ex wouldn't do this just to 'hurt' me she is doing this for herself. Selfish, maybe but certainly not deliberately to cause 'me' pain.

Best

Simon

April 4, 2005

Yours is a very articulate, well thought-out post. Which is why it saddens me to see you debasing yourself to this woman, who to be honest, does not sound particularly nice.

I hope that doesn't sound too harsh, but she has shown you very little regard. I am afraid that by telling her that you are there for her, and will tolerate her changes of heart and indecision, you are not giving her any cause to respect you. I have to agree with the others, it does sound as though she may have reviewed her lifestyle and have realised that she would rather be single and unfettered to try new things/ people.

You should work on yourself - extending your circle of friends and keeping busy. There will be someone who will appreciate your gentle, loving nature out there, but you will not find them if you keep hanging on to a fantasy of someone who may not love you any longer and who is probably not losing too much sleep over you or how you feel at the moment.

I am sorry to be so blunt.

April 4, 2005

Selfish, maybe but certainly not deliberately to cause 'me' pain.

Uh, yeah. But they are causing you pain. They know they are causing you pain and they continue to do it. Why would you want to be with a person who did whatever they wanted regardless if they would cause you pain. That's no good.

April 4, 2005

Everything we do in life is out of the need to avoid pain or the need to gain pleasure. Not to cause pain! I am feeling pain and it is a result of my girlfriend leaving me agreed. But like I said she did it to gain her own pleasure or avoid her own pain, one of the two. not to cause me pain. Yes it is causing me pain but I am sure that isnt her motive. What good would that possibly do her?

Simon

April 4, 2005

Originally posted by simon_uk
Everything we do in life is out of the need to avoid pain or the need to gain pleasure. Not to cause pain! I am feeling pain and it is a result of my girlfriend leaving me agreed. But like I said she did it to gain her own pleasure or avoid her own pain, one of the two. not to cause me pain. Yes it is causing me pain but I am sure that isnt her motive. What good would that possibly do her?

Simon

Just because someone isn't doing it on purpose doesn't mean that it's justified. A lot of pain could be avoided if people just have the courage and the decency to give a proper closure instead of shutting down communication or running away. I agree with you that many times the pain caused is not caused by malice, but often someone else is accepting pain as collateral damage as long as it does not affect him. You have sins that you commit and sins of omission. If you cause pain that could have been avoided or at least reduced you are doing something wrong, maybe it's not the same wrong as doing harm with intention, but nevertheless wrong.

April 4, 2005

I fully agree.

April 4, 2005

Yes, you see, a drunk driver doesn't mean to hurt anyone, but he acts recklessly and takes a huge risk that he will hurt or kill someone. he is not necssarily an "evil" person, but he is selfish and uncaring about others.

When someone hurts your heart without caring about you or trying to diminish your pain or perhaps acting like a grown up... then that person is acting recklessly with your heart. You shouldn't allow that reckless person to "drive drunk with your heart"... if that makes any sense...

April 4, 2005

It doesnt really make sense to be honest. so what are you suggesting that people stay together even if they arent happy? My ex left me because she wasnt happy. She did it in a civilised manner and it hurt me but what else could she do. stay with me so as not to hurt me and hurt herself. Nobody or very few people leave people and want to hurt their partners, some do sue but not the majority. Comparing drink drivers is a bit much. Somebody who gets into a car whilst drunk and kills somebody deserves to be locked up for a long time, the same cannot be said about my ex because she wasnt happy in our relationship. I think my ex has done a really selfish thing by leaving me and not staying to work out our problems but that is her way of dealing with things. She is number one in her mind as I am in mine and i hope you are in yours. My feelings come before anybodys because come judgment day there will only be me. I am sorry we disagree because at the end of the day we are all feeling down in the dumps, I guess it just depends on individual outlook. At first I hated my ex for what she had done, taht lasted about three seconds, I dont hate her for putting her own feelings first, i admire her courage, even if it is not something i agree with.

Regards

Simon

April 4, 2005

I don't know. I think we're talking about two different things here.

Of course, people should break up when they are not happy in a relationship, generally.

However, when you break up with someone, you shouldn't play with them. Just end it. Don't say "maybe I'll take you back." Don't break up so you can cheat on them and then get back together. Don't lead them on and keep calling them just to make yourself feel better.

Some people get involved with toxic people who never let them go. The toxic person keeps them on a leash and prevents them from living their life because they are so hung up on them. If someone is acting recklessly with your heart and hurting you over and over again, then you need to stop allowing that. See what I am saying?

April 5, 2005

Originally posted by kooky
Just because someone isn't doing it on purpose doesn't mean that it's justified. A lot of pain could be avoided if people just have the courage and the decency to give a proper closure instead of shutting down communication or running away. I agree with you that many times the pain caused is not caused by malice, but often someone else is accepting pain as collateral damage as long as it does not affect him. You have sins that you commit and sins of omission. If you cause pain that could have been avoided or at least reduced you are doing something wrong, maybe it's not the same wrong as doing harm with intention, but nevertheless wrong.

So true.

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Can't understand why it's over - very confused and depressed...what to do?

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