Any other members bewildered or disillusioned...?

Posted January 1, 2015 · January 1, 2015

Guys: This isn't a pi$$ing contest - I don't care who has it better or worse in your opinion.

I'm more concerned with the general state of dating, and how the dynamics have shifted to being more casual for longer, and actually deciding that once you have a person in your life, you take it AS READ that the situation is exclusive - you shouldn't ever need to ask!!

Posted January 1, 2015 · January 1, 2015

Guys: This isn't a pi$$ing contest - I don't care who has it better or worse in your opinion.
I'm more concerned with the general state of dating, and how the dynamics have shifted to being more casual for longer, and actually deciding that once you have a person in your life, you take it AS READ that the situation is exclusive - you shouldn't ever need to ask!!

Well if many women out there don't care about passion I would say that counts for a lot!!!

Posted January 1, 2015 · January 1, 2015

Leave those women to the pipe and slippers brigade, then. Don't worry about them, worry about your own situation, no?

Posted January 1, 2015 · January 1, 2015

Guys: This isn't a pi$$ing contest - I don't care who has it better or worse in your opinion.
I'm more concerned with the general state of dating, and how the dynamics have shifted to being more casual for longer, and actually deciding that once you have a person in your life, you take it AS READ that the situation is exclusive - you shouldn't ever need to ask!!

What I personally find puzzling is the idea that you can decide you don't want to be single anymore without having first met someone that would make you question whether your life would be better with them or not.

I've been tasked by a good friend to help him find a partner and had to ask this board for advice because I don't know where to start. He is the kindest, most decent person I know, he's been single all the time I've known him (8 years) and is very insecure; I care for him so deeply that I fear he's going to loose himself in the cruel world that is called 'the dating scene', exactly because I share the same concerns as yours EW. This world isn't meant for the kind, honest souls, I find.

Posted January 1, 2015 · January 1, 2015

OP, I think people are shopping around, as the saying goes, and are more open about it. IMO, with the proliferation of porn, adultery has become a peccadillo in comparison. The shame and stigma of having sex and committing adultery have gone way down.

Posted January 1, 2015 · January 1, 2015

If this board is anything to go by, that last statement is inaccurate.

It may be out in the open, more, but it's certainly not any more acceptable than it once was.

If anything, adultery is more taboo.... Once upon a time, it was the 'sin' nobody really discussed, or admitted to....

Posted January 1, 2015 · January 1, 2015

Well, people on this board are bitter IMO. The ones who complain. People who are happy and accepting aren't on the internet complaining, they're living their lives.

Jerry Seinfeld was the other man in his current wife's previous marriage. She divorced her husband to marry Jerry. Same with Julia Robert's husband. Same with Tom Hanks. I say people are accepting because most people don't care how Jerry found his wife once they learn of it. And I'm sure his wife's ex husband is on some forum throwing a ginormous fit.

Edited January 1, 2015 by loveboid
comprehension

Posted January 1, 2015 · January 1, 2015

But that isn't love. That is service. That is slave labor. You can hire someone for that. Love is a matter of the heart.

To me, it is very much like men paying for sex. Who needs love? I can just buy it, right?

The problem is, love isn't something clearly defined. Asking people what is love will reveal some very subjective answers and the idea of love languages is that different people feel love in different ways and show it in different ways. Hence, in a good relationship you should learn your partner's love language and they yours because what makes you feel loved is not necessarily the same for someone else and people usually think the person should automatically know how they feel loved and vice-versa when it's something you learn.

Acts of service is how some people show love. Slave labor? Slave labor is done by force and is brutal and against the person's will. Acts of service are things people voluntarily do for someone else because they love them, be it cooking them a nice meal, giving them a foot massage, changing their oil, whatever the case might. Some people appreciate that as love and some people show their love in that way. Some people like gifts, some like quality time, some like words of affirmation etc. There is no ONE thing that everyone likes. You might not like acts of service, that's fine, but it's very much a legitimate way some feel or express their love. You learn what your SO other likes and they what you like and how love feels for you all. Me personally, quality time and physical touch are my top two ways I feel loved.

To the question: In all my relationships the guys said I love you first. Love and relationships have never been easy, not now, not in Shakespeare's time and not in Biblical times so I don't idealize the past (which is a common tendency). Sometimes things don't go how I'd like and its frustrating but overall I'm an optimistic person and fortunately do see good relationships around me and have experienced them (even if it didn't last forever), so know that there will be good with the bad and I think I'll eventually find someone to have a long term commitment with.

Edited January 1, 2015 by MissBee

Posted January 1, 2015 · January 1, 2015

There is so much mistrust and anger between the genders right now in the west that it makes having a healthy relationship in this climate extremely difficult. Saying I love you is sort of opening yourself up and since many men have opened themselves up with not great results it is hard to do it again.

I have seen and experienced many things and by the far the most frighting thing ever was opening myself up emotionally to my wife because that is leaving me vulnerable to a woman and is one of the scariest things a man who is seen and experienced certain things can do.

Posted January 1, 2015 · January 1, 2015

That's like saying that if you like sports and your friend likes astronomy, and you get them a basketball hoop instead of a telescope for their birthday, and they don't seem enthused, then that is their problem and **** them. Lol.

!!!!

Right.

It's clearly a self-centered view. In the sense that, one simply projects what one likes and wants on to the other person and expect that they should feel the same, which I'm sure happens in a lot of relationships. The idea "do unto others what you'd have them do unto you" isn't quite right in relationships in that, you aren't dating yourself. You are dating someone who has their own likes, dislikes, desires etc and a good relationship allows people to be themselves and to still meet each other's needs.

Hence learning someone's love language is important as you get to learn what they like and they learn what you like. Unfortunately, love and what it means isn't universal. It would be nice if we could all mind read but that's not reality. You have to learn how someone feels love. If they learn you like affection as your primary way of feeling love they can offer that to you. If they like gifts, you can do that for them. But I'm sure many relationships suffer because people simply project their own ideas on the other and think because they would be happy with X the other person should be too and if not something is wrong with them...instead of seeing THEY ARE NOT YOU! What you like is what you like, but find out what they like and vice versa.

What I do find annoying, maybe not disillusioning since truly some negative views expressed here aren't thing I encounter from men I date, is that no matter the topic somehow it becomes "Women do this or want this..." Like this. Love languages are not a "woman" thing. EVERY PERSON who is a human being has their own love language and not every woman has the same one. Not all women like acts of service as their primary thing. I like it but my primary ones are quality time and physical touch. So I truly find it disheartening that some are so myopic that it ALWAYS comes down to that irrespective of the reality.

Posted January 1, 2015 · January 1, 2015

I am personally finding a lot of difficulty understanding this widespread hesitation in using the 'L' word - It seems to be a 'guy' thing more than a 'gal' thing....

Which might in turn, indicate a reluctance to commit....

....And at the same time, it seems relationships last less time, there is more infidelity and the relationships seem shorter, and I'm currently seeing a huge disparity in sex drives.

What the hell is happening to 'solid' dating???

Nothing happened to it. The vast majority of adults are in relationships. More adults than not are married. If your perception is that love and commitment are the exception to the rule, you're ignoring the actual facts.

And if you're ignoring the facts, why is that?

Posted January 1, 2015 · January 1, 2015

Posted January 1, 2015 · January 1, 2015

Well, I will take that to heart. I do see your point but with qualifications, and you just ruled out 80% of all potential relationships for me. And maybe that explains the divorce rate!

If a woman doesn't feel loved by the way I kiss her cheek, or the fact that I want to hold her hand, or by the way I make love to her, then I really don't care if she appreciates me hoeing the garden. I guess that is the heart of it. To me there are certain things that are irreversible. I might love you even if I won't work in the garden. But if you don't care how I really feel, then who cares how you feel?

Seems you do not grasp the concept of the language of love, it is all different horses for different courses, so OK you think love = physicality or in love language terms "touch".

But if a person doesn't really care for cheek kissing or holding hands it doesn't mean they are incapable of love or caring, just that they may show love in a different way.

To miss out on real love, because the person is not really into cheek kissing, seems a bit silly.

Posted January 1, 2015 · January 1, 2015

Nothing happened to it. The vast majority of adults are in relationships. More adults than not are married. If your perception is that love and commitment are the exception to the rule, you're ignoring the actual facts.

And if you're ignoring the facts, why is that?

No that's no my perception.

My perception is that the commitment lasts less time, and people are more fickle with the affection of others.

People are far more prepared to mess up a relationship than work on it.

Posted January 1, 2015 · January 1, 2015

That's really quite lovely. And I suspect, true of many.

Posted January 1, 2015 · January 1, 2015

No that's no my perception.
My perception is that the commitment lasts less time, and people are more fickle with the affection of others.
People are far more prepared to mess up a relationship than work on it.

Based on what?

Posted January 1, 2015 · January 1, 2015

I told you already. based on what I have seen happen on this forum.

And I have been here a while.

No, a longer while than that.

Much longer.

Posted January 1, 2015 · January 1, 2015

I told you already. based on what I have seen happen on this forum.
And I have been here a while.

No, a longer while than that.

Much longer.

This forum is hardly a representative sample. People tend to come to this forum if they have problems forming successful relationships. If you're forming your opinions on the world at large based on a biased sample, indeed I can see how you would draw the conclusions you do.

Posted January 1, 2015 · January 1, 2015

I have noticed that men are often far more romantic than women. And talking about being more crazy in love than I ever thought possible brings an onslaught of posts telling me that I'm not! In fact, just being in love seems to offend people. And god knows, no one wants to hear about a man in love.

I get the feeling that women are looking at men's resume's more than their value as a person. Then there is shock at the idea of getting a sugar baby.

I really have no idea what women want from men anymore. My direct experience is that we are tools to be used - a means to an end.

==============

I was really struck by one member who said her idea of romance is her husband working in her garden for her. This is a theme I see time and time again. Love isn't a matter of feelings but "what he does for me".

I did a lot for my ex wife long after I stopped loving her. It was duty, not love.

Romance was created many years ago when men were in power.

I believe that men have always liked romance more and women merely tolerated it, but now they don't have to. Men projected their feelings onto women, while women only saw men as a provider.

So I agree with you that most men are romantics and that women, in general, do not like romance.

It's one of those truths that is unfortunately hidden in the BS of our media and culture.

Posted January 1, 2015 · January 1, 2015

This forum is hardly a representative sample. People tend to come to this forum if they have problems forming successful relationships. If you're forming your opinions on the world at large based on a biased sample, indeed I can see how you would draw the conclusions you do.

Would it help you to know I also trained as a Relationships counsellor?

You don't know everything, and neither do I.

We can only base our opinions on personal experience and perceptions (which I often say can frequently be 'deceptions').

Simply because you disagree with my views, doesn't make you right.

It doesn't make me right either, but I go by what I have experienced.

Happy now?

Posted January 1, 2015 · January 1, 2015

Romance was created many years ago when men were in power.

I believe that men have always liked romance more and women merely tolerated it, but now they don't have to. Men projected their feelings onto women, while women only saw men as a provider.

So I agree with you that most men are romantics and that women, in general, do not like romance.

It's one of those truths that is unfortunately hidden in the BS of our media and culture.

I agree.

I loathe chick-flicks.

They make me vomit.

They're impossible, project a totally false premise, paint a complete fantasy and get women's hopes up.

Real life isn't like that.

They're supposed to appeal to the feminine romantic side, but sadly, that appeal is short-lived, because we never get to see three years after the final scene.

And if we did, I suspect the reality would put all of us off chick-flicks for good.

What kind of idiot dreamed up chick-flicks anyway??

Who did they think they would appeal to?

Posted January 2, 2015 · January 2, 2015

There is so much mistrust and anger between the genders right now in the west that it makes having a healthy relationship in this climate extremely difficult.

I'm not sure there is more mistrust between genders than there is mistrust between people in general, in my opinion: fear and mistrust of the Other (in whatever form), life at an impossibly fast pace, difficult times (in terms of economy) - none of it is healthy, and it is bound to spill over onto the way people communicate with each other and form bonds.

In response to the OP, my instinct (and general default setting) would be to put at least some of the blame onto the excesses capitalism has brought; then again I was raised in a heavily politically-minded home in France so it could be down to that . Apologies for taking it on a slight tangent OP

I have seen and experienced many things and by the far the most frighting thing ever was opening myself up emotionally to my wife because that is leaving me vulnerable to a woman and is one of the scariest things a man who is seen and experienced certain things can do.

Only fools don't treasure their partners opening themselves up to them; I don't know if this is something you regret but if you do, don't. This kind of stuff makes the measure of a man (or a woman, of course).

Posted January 2, 2015 · January 2, 2015

I don't regret it at all but it was not an easy step summoning up the courage to do it.

Posted January 2, 2015 · January 2, 2015

I don't regret it at all but it was not an easy step summoning up the courage to do it.

All to your credit my friend

Posted January 2, 2015 · January 2, 2015

I'm more concerned with the general state of dating, and how the dynamics have shifted to being more casual for longer, and actually deciding that once you have a person in your life, you take it AS READ that the situation is exclusive - you shouldn't ever need to ask!!

No that's no my perception.
My perception is that the commitment lasts less time, and people are more fickle with the affection of others.
People are far more prepared to mess up a relationship than work on it.

I agree since I see it in my environment (NYC). It is more conducive for casual dating or flings rather than serious relationships. I figure any metropolitan city has the same issue because there is lots of choice. If you don't like what you see, at anytime, you can throw it away and try someone new. It's a near infinite amount of distraction and stimulation. Once a fling ineluctably transition to some routine, one or both members of the relationship begin to look for their next fix. Lather, rinse, and repeat.

Sure there quite a few people that are looking for a genuine connection, a meaningful relationship, such as myself, but when you get dropped or ignored for unknown or asinine reasons, and not even a nary of a serious discussion to work through it, frustration builds.

For that reason, Pat Benatar sang it best "Love is a battlefield". It requires a means of clarity, hence why people get hung up on exclusivity or relationship status. Making an assumption leads to disappointment.

What kind of idiot dreamed up chick-flicks anyway??
Who did they think they would appeal to?

But, I like rom-coms. Don't judge me.

Sign In

Any other members bewildered or disillusioned...?

Recommended Posts

evanescentworld

Robert Z

evanescentworld

littleblackheart

loveboid

evanescentworld

loveboid

MissBee

Woggle

MissBee

Weezy1973

regine_phalange

elaine567

evanescentworld

evanescentworld

Weezy1973

evanescentworld

Weezy1973

DukeNukem47

evanescentworld

evanescentworld

littleblackheart

Woggle

littleblackheart

Frank2thepoint

What's New

My Activity Streams

More...