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Posted
Wait a minute, "my needs aren't being met", is the mantra of the MM.

 

I dont think either gender has a monopoly on that line, although the definition of 'needs' typically differs.

Posted
I dont think either gender has a monopoly on that line, although the definition of 'needs' typically differs.

 

Exactly...

 

A guy may say "his needs werent being met" when its usually something very defined(like sex)...When women say it, it may have a thousand meanings emotional, financial, intimacy/romance, self worth/esteem, etc..

 

So then it just becomes a "catch all" phrase..

 

TFY

Posted
Exactly...

 

A guy may say "his needs werent being met" when its usually something very defined(like sex)...When women say it, it may have a thousand meanings emotional, financial, intimacy/romance, self worth/esteem, etc..

 

So then it just becomes a "catch all" phrase..

 

TFY

 

So are you saying men only have one need...

  • Author
Posted
So are you saying men only have one need...

 

Typically when a man says his needs arent being met it has its basis in the bedroom. Not in all cases of course. Maybe what TFY is trying to say is that men are easier to keep happy in a relationship...... :D

Posted
So are you saying men only have one need...

 

Well think of it this way - how many men do you know that have left women that were screwing them like wildcats every night????

 

Men obviously have more than one need but I doubt if it exceeds 3 or 4. Men actually ask for very very little from women. Dr Laura Schlesinger had the best analogy for men. She said men were like a very simple machine that only needs a couple drops of oil to run smoothly. However if they don't get those drops of oil every day they break down real fast.

 

Those drops of oil are sexuality and respect. If you respect your man and treat him decently and are sexual with him, he'll run smoothly. Neglect those things and he'll break down real fast no matter what else you are providing.

  • Like 2
Posted
So are you saying men only have one need...

 

 

No, absolutely not...

 

Lets keep this within the context of this particular discussion..;)

 

TFY

Posted
Okay the bit about discussing it with friends I can appreciate.

 

I guess in situations like this its the ultimate '**** test', get him to choose between his friends or her. A really bad move imo. Although I think in this case she already knows the answer and this is really just another way of hastening an end to things. Even taking the child into consideration I don't see how she can want to press on with such a totally broken relationship.

 

Some people will go to extraordinary lengths to keep an unhealthy relationship together. They will rationalize and think this time will be different. In the case of your friend and his wife, both have shown to have poor coping skills and barring some drastic change in behavior, their relationship will not improve.

Posted

I definitely agree that most women on forums DO think that women's needs are more important than men's. or more specifically, that EVERY need is more important than sex.

 

It's kinda sad actually.

 

I think what you have learned here, OP, is that cheating is absolutely unjustifiable (which is true), while denying intimacy to your spouse is perfectly fine as long as he isn't perfect (which makes denying women feel better). I say denying women because denying men usually KNOW it isn't okay, even if they aren't willing to change it.

  • Like 1
Posted
Exactly...

 

A guy may say "his needs werent being met" when its usually something very defined(like sex)...When women say it, it may have a thousand meanings emotional, financial, intimacy/romance, self worth/esteem, etc..

 

So then it just becomes a "catch all" phrase..

 

TFY

 

I have thought a lot about this piece. I think that because women are usually on the "receiving" end of sex where they can't just get turned on (usually) it becomes a need for a quid pro quo set up to get physically able to receive sex (if not it is very painful). So then it becomes about what gets someone turned on.

 

I struggle in this area, as I know a lot of women have different needs to get to that place, and I can say if I felt like my spouse was/is a sh&t and just generally not happy with him, I am not going to get turned on. But basically getting turned on means doing the things physically that will get my engine going. Not just tweak my chest and say "brace yourself Bessie". I want certain moves. So if someone is lazy there, then I am not going to get turned on or no longer be turned on.

 

But I do think men have these other needs as well and while they may get turned on, they are more apt to lose it before completion because they just aren't there.

 

Lazy foreplay is the death knell of sex. Not caring what turns the other person on and not being interested in doing it.

 

Oh and lack of sleep. Lack of sleep can make things numb. :laugh:

 

We stop seeing our spouse as the best thing in our lives and we see them as a given like the comfy couch in the family room.

 

I do think that gender myths have erred to allowing women to have less responsibility towards their cheating and assumption they cheat less. That is not the case. Actually I would guess there is far more infidelity acts (up to and including sex) by women than known. I think women do a much better job hiding it and men are less assuming.

 

I also think men and women cheat for very similar reasons. Men do not cheat, just for pure sex, any more than women and that reasoning is in the minority.

  • Author
Posted
I definitely agree that most women on forums DO think that women's needs are more important than men's. or more specifically, that EVERY need is more important than sex.

 

It's kinda sad actually.

 

I think what you have learned here, OP, is that cheating is absolutely unjustifiable (which is true), while denying intimacy to your spouse is perfectly fine as long as he isn't perfect (which makes denying women feel better). I say denying women because denying men usually KNOW it isn't okay, even if they aren't willing to change it.

 

Yes I think from a man's POV its worrying how women are able to disregard a husband's desire for sex with such ease. I was shocked at my friend's wife's lack of interest in his concerns about their sex life and her subsequent shaming and I'm even more shocked that there is a similar attitude amongst posters on here.

 

Its given me food for thought and actually gone some way to losing interest in marriage. I always had dreams of having a wife and kids and still do now even in my mid 30s. But seeing how my friend's marriage has imploded and that the attitude of his wife is hardly an exception I really do honestly fear being trapped into some nightmare legal obligation raising a child and having to forego my needs because the person who is best placed to accommodate me and should be working to provide solutions can't be bothered to do so because she has lost all interest and doing nothing suits her purpose down to the ground. Of course its probably a minority of marriages that end up like that, but I would rather not bother at all than risk ending up in the nightmare my friend is in: trapped in a dead marriage with a woman who has lost interest, going through the motions to avoid the child coming from a broken home.

 

What an absolute mess.

Posted

The thing is...

 

In many ways, if you stay for the children, you're still leaving the children in a broken home environment.

 

People like to act like children are only affected negatively if their parents divorce.

 

Children are often, in my mind, somewhat worse off becuase of the behaviors and traits they learned from parents who stayed in a lousy, neglectful or abusive marriage for the sake of their child.

  • Like 5
Posted
Whenever "nagging" is mentioned, the husband has already written off any possiblity that the wife has a valid concern. It is the ultimate put-down and is very effective. The more she raises her concerns, the more apt the phrase "nagging" appears.

If the so called "nagging" persists, the next step the husband usually takes is stonewalling, the silent treatment, where the husband refuses to discuss the issue being brought up at all, that definitely leads to frustration, anger and resentment in wives.

 

I don't think this is neccessarily always true.

 

It's not always the man gaslighting, or something along those lines.

 

I dealt with some nagging today from my fiance. I cared about her concerns...until I addressed them, and she refused to accept the apology/olive branch, and continued to press the issue at an inappropriate time.

 

I think "nagging" has an accepted definition that goes beyond "How it makes me feel to hear myself called this or told I am doing this".

 

That definition is: "To scold, complain or find fault constantly". There's a reason it was given the term "nag", and that's because this kind of behavior is extremely unpleasant to be around for most men. I don't know anyone who would choose to be around that kind of person constantly.

 

Rarely is "appropriately raising a concern" actually considered "nagging", at least in my experience.

 

However, raising and re-raising a concern in an incredibly negative manner...that's nagging. And some people do this. And there's a word for it. And if you hear someone tell you you're nagging, then you should probably at least consider the context, and consider how you're coming across, regardless of your intentions.

 

In my case, I "stonewall" when I've heard and addressed the same complaint enough, and have asked for some sort of respite or for us to discuss it at another time. It's a boundaries and a self-preservation thing. I cannot and will not subject myself to constant negativity, especially if say, we have already discussed and resolved the thing that is being "nagged" about, and it is being brought up again and again simply because it happened one time and it upset her.

Posted
Yes I think from a man's POV its worrying how women are able to disregard a husband's desire for sex with such ease. I was shocked at my friend's wife's lack of interest in his concerns about their sex life and her subsequent shaming and I'm even more shocked that there is a similar attitude amongst posters on here.

 

Its given me food for thought and actually gone some way to losing interest in marriage. I always had dreams of having a wife and kids and still do now even in my mid 30s. But seeing how my friend's marriage has imploded and that the attitude of his wife is hardly an exception I really do honestly fear being trapped into some nightmare legal obligation raising a child and having to forego my needs because the person who is best placed to accommodate me and should be working to provide solutions can't be bothered to do so because she has lost all interest and doing nothing suits her purpose down to the ground. Of course its probably a minority of marriages that end up like that, but I would rather not bother at all than risk ending up in the nightmare my friend is in: trapped in a dead marriage with a woman who has lost interest, going through the motions to avoid the child coming from a broken home.

 

What an absolute mess.

 

To base your actions on those of others is going to lead you down a sad path. We all see things happen to people and we if we acted as you are suggesting, none of us would leave our house.

 

Regarding those responding here in agreement with the wife, this is a relationship forum that attracts those looking for advice and many are not in a good place. It is a small subset of people in the grand scheme of things and not a representation that most women do not like sex.

  • Like 1
  • Author
Posted
To base your actions on those of others is going to lead you down a sad path. We all see things happen to people and we if we acted as you are suggesting, none of us would leave our house.

 

Regarding those responding here in agreement with the wife, this is a relationship forum that attracts those looking for advice and many are not in a good place. It is a small subset of people in the grand scheme of things and not a representation that most women do not like sex.

 

Oh I totally appreciate that people who may have been burned or whatever are not exactly poster children for happy relationships, but for me personally I can't stress enough how being 'trapped' in a situation where I give up my own life to raise a child without the benefits that come from a loving relationship would be one of the worst things that could happen to me. Mainly because I have always had a lot of freedom, even in relationships. Marriage and kids would impact on that freedom and a haooy marriage would be a fair trade. But for it to go sour and end in a situation like my friends would leave me very angry and resentful at the freedom I once had and the restrictions I now have with no happiness to show for it.

 

I really do feel for anyone trapped in such a situation where the spark has gone and all they have left in their relationship is the role of being a good parent. It sounds desperately sad that these people forsake moving on to stay in a broken relationship for the sake of the kids.

Posted

In my case, I "stonewall" when I've heard and addressed the same complaint enough, and have asked for some sort of respite or for us to discuss it at another time. It's a boundaries and a self-preservation thing. I cannot and will not subject myself to constant negativity, especially if say, we have already discussed and resolved the thing that is being "nagged" about, and it is being brought up again and again simply because it happened one time and it upset her.

 

How to Ruin a Perfectly Good Relationship | Psychology Today

 

(the) behavior that predicts divorce with over 90% accuracy, according to John Gottman's research and the experience of most couples' counselors, is stonewalling.
  • Like 1
Posted
Oh I totally appreciate that people who may have been burned or whatever are not exactly poster children for happy relationships, but for me personally I can't stress enough how being 'trapped' in a situation where I give up my own life to raise a child without the benefits that come from a loving relationship would be one of the worst things that could happen to me. Mainly because I have always had a lot of freedom, even in relationships. Marriage and kids would impact on that freedom and a haooy marriage would be a fair trade. But for it to go sour and end in a situation like my friends would leave me very angry and resentful at the freedom I once had and the restrictions I now have with no happiness to show for it.

 

I really do feel for anyone trapped in such a situation where the spark has gone and all they have left in their relationship is the role of being a good parent. It sounds desperately sad that these people forsake moving on to stay in a broken relationship for the sake of the kids.

 

But that is their choice. They are choosing that.

 

Life is a gamble, so to go for something big you are going to run the risk of getting hurt. There is little way to protect yourself totally from this. It is just how things work. But if you go through life trying to hedge off any hurt, you never truly live.

 

So, yes your friend has a miserable marriage, but that is HIS marriage. Not yours and not a marriage you may ever be in. Because this is such a priority for you, you stand a better chance NOT to be in this type of marriage than vice versa. Because you are aware and committed to not allowing it to happen.

 

While we can't control what the other party does, we can hedge our bets to try and insure a happy marriage. It's not perfect, it doesn't always succeed, but it can work. And trust me, you have two people fighting for each other and the partnership, that is a win/win situation.

 

It is just about never becoming complacent and each party committing every day, each day, to nurture the relationship. And when you focus on this, you see when it is slipping, you aren't caught unaware.

 

I also highly recommend, couples counseling while dating. You are creating the foundation of the relationship, do the best thing for it and make sure you are creating a healthy one. This way you can work on your communication styles, your conflict resolution skills, and you guys will get tools, right in the beginning to keep it healthy and happy.

  • Like 4
Posted

 

Gottman is great on couple's counseling. I really enjoyed "Seven Principles for Making Marriage Work".

 

I highly recommend it. They also have couple's retreats in Washington State ( I believe). My husband I looked into it as a refresher, just haven't had a chance to do it.

Posted
Oh I totally appreciate that people who may have been burned or whatever are not exactly poster children for happy relationships, but for me personally I can't stress enough how being 'trapped' in a situation where I give up my own life to raise a child without the benefits that come from a loving relationship would be one of the worst things that could happen to me. Mainly because I have always had a lot of freedom, even in relationships. Marriage and kids would impact on that freedom and a haooy marriage would be a fair trade. But for it to go sour and end in a situation like my friends would leave me very angry and resentful at the freedom I once had and the restrictions I now have with no happiness to show for it.

 

I really do feel for anyone trapped in such a situation where the spark has gone and all they have left in their relationship is the role of being a good parent. It sounds desperately sad that these people forsake moving on to stay in a broken relationship for the sake of the kids.

 

If you are cautious about marriage because you worry about loss of freedom and such, that is understandable. In your previous post you alluded to being turned off from marriage based on your friend and posters here and that was what I responded to. There are no guarantees with marriage. You can do everything right and still have it implode. That said, marriage can be great and a wonderful ride.

  • Like 1
Posted

It seems that to some, there is no point in discussing he "whys" of why a wife or a hsuband may not want sex. The only thing that matters is that they don't, and if they get cheated on, then they ought to have seen it comming.

 

As this is a discusison thread, and not applying to any particular situation, it's really doing a diservice to dismiss the "whys" of why there is no sex. Yes, for some that decision eists in a vaccum from any contributing factors from their spouse, but if asked, the reasons some spouses say that they ae not interested may be very surprising and even rational, if they're voices were allowed to be heard. It's got nothing to do with ignoring men's needs or anthing like that.

 

To those who write it off as the "withholding" spouses issue alone, think of this. If you were married, and your spouse turned into a couch potato, went out allmost every night after work with friends while ignoring you, sat looking at porn all day and basically viewed you as some sort of sex toy and doesn't care about your pleasure, how would you feel? I know you'll say that the wife in that situation should speak up, and I agree 100%. Suppose she does and she is ignored ( and there are many men out theer who do write off women's needs as nagging, and he oppsoite is also true for men...there are women who would say that their husbands are nagging). She bings it up again, and again, as nicely as she can, but nothing changes. That can be every bit as painful for a woman ( or a man) as hvaing your sexual needs ignored, which, in essecnce is what it really is.

 

If you were the wife in that situation, how would you feel and what would you do? Would you keep having sex, even though it made you feel awful and unloved, or would you just sort of shut down and stop caring?

 

If you did shut down and stop caring, how do you think the hsuband views the situation? Do you think he feels he's contributing to it, or that he's doing nothing wrong and his wife just doesn't want sex? What is the reality?

 

 

I've been married a long time now, and have ben fortuneate enough that hasn't happened to me, but it has to some of my friends, and I can assure you that their tears and battered self esteem are ence that men's bhvaior can and does hurt, and not every man is willing to listen. Sure, some will, but some won't.

 

In any situation like this, it takes both spouses to fix it, but some are unwilling or unable to do so. Sometimes, it's just who they are.

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