Infidelity in a sexless marriage

[insert_name]

The problem is that resentment doesn't tend to lead to expression, it tends to lead to bottling up emotions and the lack of sex is a symptom, not the problem itself, as seen by the wife.

She is not going to bring up sex as a topic, she is going to say things like "you never change the nappies" and "why is it all my responsibility" and "why are you going to the pub again leaving me to look after the kids?"

If he doesn't listen or is "busy", then she stores it all in her mind and the resentment builds.

It is interesting that you bring up his "individuality" being retained.

This highlights the difference between them, he retains his individuality, whereas her individuality gets swallowed up by the maternal role, another cause of resentment perhaps...

 

 

 

 

Actually a good example of this was when I was round at christmas and I suggested me and my friend go out for a curry at a restaurant and shoot the breeze like the good old days. He asked his wife if she would have a problem with that and she wasnt keen on having to put the baby to bed that night so he said to me that he couldnt go, he would deal with the kid and we would have to get a takeaway instead. No sign there of a man who is happy to abdicate his responsibilities and put them all on her.

Of course it may be different when Im not around but if anything its counter intuitive for him to do his own thing when Im not there and then when his friend is actually available all of a sudden he gets all considerate and turns down a free meal at a restauarant. He has his faults but for the most part hes a good guy and I have little doubt that he has been a good provider/husband/father.

[CALOVELY]

The more I read this thread, I think you should back away from their situation a bit. You seem to know many intimate details about their marriage, details he shared with you about his wife and several are pretty disrespectful. It is great that you are friends with him but perhaps it would be better if you viewed this more from a distance. If they do decide to get counciling and work on their marriage, you will be viewed as a supporter of his infidelity by her, which will make it difficult for him to remain friendly with you.

[jbrent890]

BetrayedH Ive read your story and I actually respect your view.

 

Yes, Ive considered this. To be honest, I dont believe my H will be surprised if I am found out. We recently separated for a short time and I swore then I was done. For some INSANE reason I let him back into the house. Mainly it was because my children were missing him terribly because despite all his faults as a husband and life partner, he is a good Dad and the only one they have.

 

That being said, we have already discussed details of what a separation would look like. We have had numerous discussions about my issues with the marriage. He knows I wanted an open marriage. He knows I have threatened to find it somewhere else. His family have told him to change his attitude or he will lose his marriage. I believe none of it will come as a surprise, IF we are found out, and he knows the marriage died long ago due to his own laziness, and Im just putting the final nail in the coffin. He'll likely kick his own @ss, as well as my own. As well he should.

 

My whole family is rife with infidelity. Both my parents cheated, as did my father in law. I see how its handled, and how its affected our relationships and why. I'm aware of the risks. I mitigate them as best I can. I know its not ideal...but it is what it is.

 

This just doesn't make sense to me. I may be wrong, but it seems that your cheating is just a big FU to your husband. You plan on leaving him if the infedility is revealed, but you stay so you can continually cheat on him. Listen I get it and I will even say that I feel for you. You say that you are staying for the best interest of the kids. If your cheating gets revealed (I have a feeling it will), your children are going to grow up with two divorced parents that hate each other. Does that really sound like that is the best interest for them? Wouldn't your children be better off with two stable divorced parents as opposed to two unstable divorced parents? I think you need to reevaluate your motivation for staying. Honestly, I think you are staying because you have something to prove to your husband. To be more frank, I think at some level you want to get caught so you can say to your husband "I told you so." As it stands, you are playing with fire and the only people that are going to get burned are your children. Not to think the worse of you, but that's the sense I get from your posts. Do yourself a favor, divorce your husband and find someone that actually appreciates you. Your husband sounds like an a-hole, but he doesn't deserve this and you don't either. I'm sorry, but I have a bad feeling that it is not going to end well for you.

[salparadise]

Sex is a legitimate need and can only be met by a spouse. Isn't withholding that knowingly and blaming the other spouse the same kind of thinking as cheating and them blaming the spouse?

 

Yes, except withholding can start gradually and escalate without stepping over a big red line. Occasionally not being in the mood, even one or five or ten times, is not a relationship transgression. It's easy to be in denial because there is no universal definition and in their mind, they just don't feel like it at the moment. Never mind that they haven't felt like it the last ten or twenty times.

 

This was how my ex felt about it. In the last few years she usually wanted sex once a month––just before her period. She didn't see that as a problem and was nonchalantly dismissive of any discussion about my needs... physical, emotional or other. Of course when I started turning down her once-a-month overtures she saw that differently.

 

In this thread we all seem to be trying to define hard rules and decide where exactly the edges are. The reality is that withholding of sex is almost always accompanied by absence of emotional intimacy and other expressions of positive regard. There may never be a point where the other spouse feels rationally justified as in, if this then that... their self-esteem deteriorates, resentment grows without anyone realizing it, and they become susceptible as opposed to feeling entitled. It's also thought (by psychologists) that in such situations the diminished partner is subconsciously trying to save the marriage by turning things inside out and shocking their spouse back to reality, forcing them to understand that it's broken.

 

I think it's never quite as simple as a+b=c, and always involves complex emotions and subconscious strategies for coping.

Edited January 2, 2015 by salparadise

[insert_name]

The more I read this thread, I think you should back away from their situation a bit. You seem to know many intimate details about their marriage, details he shared with you about his wife and several are pretty disrespectful. It is great that you are friends with him but perhaps it would be better if you viewed this more from a distance. If they do decide to get counciling and work on their marriage, you will be viewed as a supporter of his infidelity by her, which will make it difficult for him to remain friendly with you.

 

I'm actually encouraging him to get marriage counselling- but it isnt going to happen, end of.

 

And for the purposes of the tape I have never supported his infidelity, but he is my friend so while I disapprove of his way of tackling the problem anyone who thinks I am going to ditch a mate or otherwise let it alter our friendship because he cheats on his wife is deluded.

 

I put these details out here with no names attached to stimulate debate on the realities of what its like to be in a situation where you are deprived of a basic ingredient of a loving relationship. In fact whether what he tells me is the truth or not is actually arbitrary to the discussion taking place here. Its not a case of whether what I say is true or not, rather what are the ethical ramifications of the situation as I outline it. Its certsinly stirred up a wide range of viewpoints which was the original intention.

[CALOVELY]

I'm actually encouraging him to get marriage counselling- but it isnt going to happen, end of.

 

And for the purposes of the tape I have never supported his infidelity, but he is my friend so while I disapprove of his way of tackling the problem anyone who thinks I am going to ditch a mate or otherwise let it alter our friendship because he cheats on his wife is deluded.

 

I put these details out here with no names attached to stimulate debate on the realities of what its like to be in a situation where you are deprived of a basic ingredient of a loving relationship. In fact whether what he tells me is the truth or not is actually arbitrary to the discussion taking place here. Its not a case of whether what I say is true or not, rather what are the ethical ramifications of the situation as I outline it. Its certsinly stirred up a wide range of viewpoints which was the original intention.

 

I understand that. It was a suggestion to be cautious.

[insert_name]

I understand that. It was a suggestion to be cautious.

 

Its not for me to be cautious- his wife has already expressed her dislike of people who were aware of the situation. So I think in light of that I am already probably viewed as an enemy of the marriage- whatever. Whilst I don't approve of cheating as a measure of resolution I would ask what is a friend supposed to do in that situation? Tell the friend's spouse? Talk them out of it? Both suggestions are in their own way ridiculous and unworkable.

 

In those circumstances I do what I have always done in the past, support my friend but also retain some objectivity. In trying to view the situation objectively I found there were some interesting areas where logic fell short so was interested to see if there was a particular consensus on path that others would follow. Im quite surprised that the opinions are actually quite diverse and its got to a point now where the main focus should be not on whether this is a real life case or not- thats immaterial, assuming what I say is true- what are peoples reactions to that situation?

Edited January 2, 2015 by insert_name

[CALOVELY]

Its not for me to be cautious- his wife has already expressed her dislike of people who were aware of the situation. So I think in light of that I am already probably viewed as an enemy of the marriage- whatever. Whilst I don't approve of cheating as a measure of resolution I would ask what is a friend supposed to do in that situation? Tell the friend's spouse? Talk them out of it? Both suggestions are in their own way ridiculous and unworkable.

 

In those circumstances I do what I have always done in the past, support my friend but also retain some objectivity. In trying to view the situation objectively I found there were some interesting areas where logic fell short so was interested to see if there was a particular consensus on path that others would follow. Im quite surprised that the opinions are actually quite diverse and its got to a point now where the main focus should be not on whether this is a real life case or not- thats immaterial, assuming what I say is true- what are peoples reactions to that situation?

 

I was not aware that she knew of your involvement, so that changes things a bit. Continue to support your friend and let the chips fall where they may.

 

Yes, it sure is an interesting topic with many varied responses.

[insert_name]

I was not aware that she knew of your involvement, so that changes things a bit. Continue to support your friend and let the chips fall where they may.

 

Yes, it sure is an interesting topic with many varied responses.

 

I posted earlier (not a dig at you) that one of the first things to come out of her discovery was the condition that he delete the friends that knew about it from facebook.

 

I can kind of understand the intent, but I don't knoe whst she expects from a situation like that. Of course friends are going to know, it does not necessarily mean we agreed or encouraged. So for his actions we suffer by having our access to our friend cut off? Not that its worked out like that, but still, deleting from facebook seems a bit of a stupid and not very well thought out 'condition'.

[CALOVELY]

I posted earlier (not a dig at you) that one of the first things to come out of her discovery was the condition that he delete the friends that knew about it from facebook.

 

I can kind of understand the intent, but I don't knoe whst she expects from a situation like that. Of course friends are going to know, it does not necessarily mean we agreed or encouraged. So for his actions we suffer by having our access to our friend cut off? Not that its worked out like that, but still, deleting from facebook seems a bit of a stupid and not very well thought out 'condition'.

 

She is hurt and angry. Punishment is being dolled out. I imagine she thinks those who knew and said nothing are the "enemy". I sympathize with both of them really.

[insert_name]

She is hurt and angry. Punishment is being dolled out. I imagine she thinks those who knew and said nothing are the "enemy". I sympathize with both of them really.

 

I get that, in its purest form, but a modicum of thought would surely make her realise that his friends are in a no win situation So leave them out of it?

 

Would she tell her friends husband, to whom she owes no allegiance, about her friends affair? Of course she wouldnt. But then as can be seen by the goings on in this thread, if my friends wife could see life from everybodies point of view and not just her own then maybe her marriage would not be in this mess. So its perhaps to be expected.

Edited January 2, 2015 by insert_name

[Got it]

I get that, in its purest form, but a modicum of thought would surely make her realise that his friends are in a no win situation So leave them out of it?

 

Would she tell her friends husband, to whom she owes no allegiance, about her friends affair? Of course she wouldnt. But then as can be seen by the goings on in this thread, if my friends wife could see life from everybodies point of view and not just her own then maybe her marriage would not be in this mess. So its perhaps to be expected.

 

Okay, but this ultimately lies with your friend. He has the ability to speak up and stand for what he feels is right. If not, he is doing exactly what he wants to do.

 

I don't think at this point she is caring two wits about the friends. Maybe over time but right now she is doing a massive cleaning and punishing him. He can decide if he agrees or not.

 

Please remember, he is exactly where he wants to be. If he stays it is because he is getting something out of it, no matter how toxic the situation is.

[CALOVELY]

I get that, in its purest form, but a modicum of thought would surely make her realise that his friends are in a no win situation So leave them out of it?

 

 

In fairness here, her husband is not leaving friends out of this. He is telling them intimate details and it is understandable that she would want that to end.

[insert_name]

Okay the bit about discussing it with friends I can appreciate.

 

I guess in situations like this its the ultimate '**** test', get him to choose between his friends or her. A really bad move imo. Although I think in this case she already knows the answer and this is really just another way of hastening an end to things. Even taking the child into consideration I don't see how she can want to press on with such a totally broken relationship.

[autumnnight]

Okay the bit about discussing it with friends I can appreciate.

 

I guess in situations like this its the ultimate '**** test', get him to choose between his friends or her. A really bad move imo. Although I think in this case she already knows the answer and this is really just another way of hastening an end to things. Even taking the child into consideration I don't see how she can want to press on with such a totally broken relationship.

 

Because she doesn't think it's broken. She never did. She thought HE was broken for wanting sex.

[truncated]

Because she doesn't think it's broken. She never did. She thought HE was broken for wanting sex.

 

How do you know this? how does anyone ( friend included) really know what is going on, or realy has ever gone on, in in their relationship.

 

It seems like you would blame her not just for not having sex, but also for not wanting to have sex, and assuming that that is all on her.

 

If, as some are saying, it takes two to contribute to an affair ( one being the person who cheats and the second being the spouse who doesn't want sex) the surely, it is not outside the realm of possibility that both spouses have contributed to a situation where sex isn't happening.

 

Again, I agree their are some spouses who unfairly withhold sex to a spouse who is good, kind and loving, but is too much of a stretch to say that there are some husbands and wives who contribute to their spouse's lack of desire?

 

For example, let's say the husbadn became a couch potato and balooned up in weight to over 300 pounds and his wife no longer found him attractive. How many would commisserate and understand why she felt that way, and how many would say "too bad, have sex with him anyway"? . In this case, the husband most certainly IS contributing to the situation. What if his wife speaks to him about it, and tells him that she no longer finds him attractive, and he does nothing to change, writing her opinions off as "nagging".Is this still all on her for not wantingt o have sex with someone who minimized her thoughts and feelings?

 

This isn't saying it's his falt per se, but, in this case more that he also shares equally he responsibility for her lack of desire if he can't begin to make changes 9 and there are some men and women who ae not willing to make those changes, some will, but not all)

 

In a marriage like this, it eally is a two way street, though i will certainly agree that in some sexless marriages things are different and it is just one spouse with the issue.

[thefooloftheyear]

Its been my experience that once that ship leaves the port(sex)...its usually gone for good...If the principals dont care, well, then usually the end result, (if everything else is "good"), is they go on and live a relatively peaceful existence...lets face it, sex is great, but it isnt like air, food or water...

 

Ive seen many "good" marriages get torn apart because of this, though...Its unfortunate...The thought of all of the lives ripped apart and kids that get affected, its very sad..Thats not to dismiss the importance of it, mind you...

 

I dont have the answers....I dont think anyone really does

 

TFY

[thefooloftheyear]

I don't believe that a lack of sex irresistibly compels a man to put his boots on and find a woman to have sex with outside a marriage.

 

Kangaroos, fish, and rabbits have no choice about their sex drive, but men do.

 

He did it because he wanted to.

 

Lets not blame the wife.

 

Somethings needs to be fixed for sure, but infidelity should not be the first port of call.

 

 

Learned something new today....Men actually have a choice with regards to their sex drive..She doesnt want it?...Just shut it off...Where the hell is the switch??....

 

TFY

[insert_name]

How do you know this? how does anyone ( friend included) really know what is going on, or realy has ever gone on, in in their relationship.

 

It seems like you would blame her not just for not having sex, but also for not wanting to have sex, and assuming that that is all on her.

 

If, as some are saying, it takes two to contribute to an affair ( one being the person who cheats and the second being the spouse who doesn't want sex) the surely, it is not outside the realm of possibility that both spouses have contributed to a situation where sex isn't happening.

 

Again, I agree their are some spouses who unfairly withhold sex to a spouse who is good, kind and loving, but is too much of a stretch to say that there are some husbands and wives who contribute to their spouse's lack of desire?

 

For example, let's say the husbadn became a couch potato and balooned up in weight to over 300 pounds and his wife no longer found him attractive. How many would commisserate and understand why she felt that way, and how many would say "too bad, have sex with him anyway"? . In this case, the husband most certainly IS contributing to the situation. What if his wife speaks to him about it, and tells him that she no longer finds him attractive, and he does nothing to change, writing her opinions off as "nagging".Is this still all on her for not wantingt o have sex with someone who minimized her thoughts and feelings?

 

This isn't saying it's his falt per se, but, in this case more that he also shares equally he responsibility for her lack of desire if he can't begin to make changes 9 and there are some men and women who ae not willing to make those changes, some will, but not all)

 

In a marriage like this, it eally is a two way street, though i will certainly agree that in some sexless marriages things are different and it is just one spouse with the issue.

 

We are not trying to solve my friends relationship problems rather use the details available to stimulate hypothetical debate about what is acceptable in terms of witholding sex from a partner, so I don't see why there is so much issue with whether what I say is the truth or not?

Far best to work with the details that I provide and see it as a fictional relationship.

 

I would not blame any woman for witholding sex provided they could justify it and were actively working to resolve the problem. I get the sense that the sisterhood is once again trying to close ranks in this thread and justify women simply going off sex because they can whilst making no requirement of them to come to a resolution with their partner. Its gender agnostic: if you dont want to have sex, then thats fine. But its YOUR responsibility, even more so than your partners, to bring this up and offer solutions. Open relationship being the most drastic.

AFAIK there is none of this in my friends relationship, no effort has been made to address lack of sex, quite the opposite in fact. He is immature for having physical needs and needs to put the family first and forget about his sex drive. As most red blooded males will tell you that is very difficult indeed.

 

In the example you gave then open discussion is the crux of the matter. If the husband puts on weight and the wife loses attraction then she needs to bring it up at the first opportunity and spell out the potential consequences. It actually becomes a test for her of how much she wants to save the marriage. If she is being written off as a nag then to be brutally honest she simply is not conveying the seriousness of the situation.

 

There seems to be so many excuses in this thread for letting a marriage go to wrack and ruin. No wonder people avoid any legal commitment these days when a woman can arbitrarily go off sex/start building up resentment and find all manner of reasons not to confront it and let it build until it becomes irrepairable. I'm not sure I buy alll this nagging stuff. If the husband is writing it off as nagging then the other partner is simply not conveying the seriousness of the situation/their unhappiness in the marriage. Fair enough everyday quarrels can snowball into resentment resulting in lack of attraction- but if you want your marriage to survive then it would not get to that stage.

[elaine567]

I believe sex is a barometer of the marriage, in many cases, not all but in many.

NO sex usually means the communication between the two is off-kilter.

 

We can blame one or the other, but unless one or both even have a medical/psychological problem to explain their reduced desire to have sex, then the lack of communication, poor communication skills, misinformation, lies or the resulting resentment in the marriage, means sex is often off the table.

Who, in a marriage, really wants to have regular sex with someone they have no loving connection with?

For some men it seems they can compartmentalise the sex from whatever else is going on in the marriage, but I guess for most women, if they do not see commitment, love and affection, then sex goes out the window.

[elaine567]

If the husband is writing it off as nagging then the other partner is simply not conveying the seriousness of the situation/their unhappiness in the marriage..

 

Whenever "nagging" is mentioned, the husband has already written off any possiblity that the wife has a valid concern. It is the ultimate put-down and is very effective. The more she raises her concerns, the more apt the phrase "nagging" appears.

If the so called "nagging" persists, the next step the husband usually takes is stonewalling, the silent treatment, where the husband refuses to discuss the issue being brought up at all, that definitely leads to frustration, anger and resentment in wives.

[thefooloftheyear]

Ive seen these stories here a thousand times....There are consistencies...

 

-Womens needs are somehow "more important" than men's..If she doesnt have sex with him its because she isnt getting her emotional needs met and she cant accomodate or perform. ..If the shoe is on the other foot, and the guy is the one, then the guy is cruel, insensitive and addicted to porn...

 

Same for infidelity...

 

When I hear guys talk about it, they are usually wracked with guilt, and seem genuinely remorseful and feel that they let their family down..

 

When women talk of it, its always..."he drove me to do this!!"......"I had no choice, my needs werent being met"....

 

This is not to gender bash, just an observation hanging around here and IRL...

 

TFY

[elaine567]

Ive seen these stories here a thousand times....There are consistencies...

 

-Womens needs are somehow "more important" than men's..If she doesnt have sex with him its because she isnt getting her emotional needs met and she cant accomodate or perform. ..If the shoe is on the other foot, and the guy is the one, then the guy is cruel, insensitive and addicted to porn...

 

Same for infidelity...

 

When I hear guys talk about it, they are usually wracked with guilt, and seem genuinely remorseful and feel that they let their family down..

 

When women talk of it, its always..."he drove me to do this!!"......"I had no choice, my needs werent being met"....

 

This is not to gender bash, just an observation hanging around here and IRL...

 

TFY

 

Wait a minute, "my needs aren't being met", is the mantra of the MM.

[almond]

I think people need to think beyond what is right or wrong, that's not how the damn world works nor will it ever. And when you're pushed so far eventually you could give a flying $hit any longer about the rules, that didn't work out like they're "supposed" to.

 

And it really has little do with the excuses, in fact for many people cheating is a painful decision to make just to seek out some fulfillment and to give you back some of that piece that died in you and that you almost lost enduring the situation for what it was, which is more than about sex, it's about intimacy and feeling loved again at least to some degree if not just desired...which after time become immediate needs after a long draining and desperate process of having your needs and pleas to your partner fall on deaf ears and essentially being rejected.

 

The reality is that person can be so disconnected and careless about their partners needs that they hardly even pay attention to the fact of how you feel or what you're going through...let alone waste any of their precious time hurting or thinking about what you are lacking within the relationship...to them it's crying over spilt milk.

 

Now think of having a family and children, with of course finances, a mortgage and all sorts of things...you think people are just going to pick up and walk away? Realistically?

 

It ain't going to happen just like that, it's neither practical or even the easiest choice, you uproot the entire lives of your children because of someone who doesn't seem to give a damn about the relationship and is so damn complacent they can't even tell that their partner is cheating, until that day they do then all of a sudden they give a damn and $hit hits the fan and they start acting all surprised and dumbfounded and like they care...which if they actually were present and listening they could have picked up on one the thousand clues, but they didn't give a crap to notice the dumpster truck sitting in their living room because they have the attention span of a teenager glued to their iPhone.

 

There are differences in the people that cheat...some cheat from personal issues, some cheat to break a relationship and self destruct...others cheat out of desperation and feeling no other option in their current lives which in fact changes things the least overall and kind of fixes the problem to a degree, at least curing some of those pains.

 

I for one feel that if you're one of those people who shun your partners needs and neglect them, then your SELFISH @ss has it coming to you and I fully support that person man or woman cheating on you, as long as they are smart, responsible and safe and not acting like a reckless idiot.

 

But the point is, don't come b!itching to me about being cheated on and therefore now you demonize your partner for it when you full well knew how neglectful and she!tty of a partner you were and are...don't give me that high and mighty self defence of being in the right and the victim simply because whoever cheats is the bad guy..I'd give you a boot right off the pier and into the ocean to let you cool off and rethink that one.

 

If you're partner cheats just for the sake of cheating, that's a whole other situation...the point is, take some damn responsibility instead of playing this game of who's in the right or wrong, just so can justify and avoid your own responsibility...because maybe, just maybe, that person never wanted or planned to cheat on you, and your behavior had a lot to do with it.

 

But this forum likes to blame cheaters for everything, so carry on since it seems to make you feel better even though you just sound about as ignorant as those Jesus people protesting to gays that they're going to hell because being gay is a choice.

 

Wow. Way to make me re-think my stance on this one.

 

 

I appreciate your posts around this forum...always very well thought out and logical. Thank-you.

[insert_name]

Ive seen these stories here a thousand times....There are consistencies...

 

-Womens needs are somehow "more important" than men's..If she doesnt have sex with him its because she isnt getting her emotional needs met and she cant accomodate or perform. ..If the shoe is on the other foot, and the guy is the one, then the guy is cruel, insensitive and addicted to porn...

 

Same for infidelity...

 

When I hear guys talk about it, they are usually wracked with guilt, and seem genuinely remorseful and feel that they let their family down..

 

When women talk of it, its always..."he drove me to do this!!"......"I had no choice, my needs werent being met"....

 

This is not to gender bash, just an observation hanging around here and IRL...

 

TFY

 

Women are very poor at accepting responsibility for their actions. I think thats because they are generally better at compartmentalising and rationalising. Ive seen this first hand and its quite scary how they justify the things they do. Some of the tales on here of wives having affairs suggest they seem to genuinely believe they have two lives, the home life and the life with their AP and both are unrelated so there is no wrongdoing.

 

Not that men are that much better, just seems to be less prevalent/I see more men taking ownership of what they have done. Certainly Ive done some dubious stuff and while I can explain my thinking I usually had choices and have to accept the responsibility for choosing the course of action that I took.