I think I'm going to end it

[whatitdo]

Going to try and make this short.... Was getting out of a relationship and met the woman of my dreams. This isn't a rebound thing, I truly with all my being love her. We have been dating for nearly a year. Now here is the problems:

1- age. I'm 37 she is 20

2- culture. She is muslim and from Pakistan. I'm black from the U.S.

3- money. For all intensive purposes her family is extremely well off.

4- relationships- technically she is married. Her family marri d her off the moment she hit 18 to a man in Dubai. And my ex still plays a role in my life because we have kids, and well honestly her husband and my ex are both backups for her and I respectfully.

 

So with all that being said her smile makes my world go round. Her voice brightens my day. Everything about her is the things I've been looking for my whole life. This is the first person I can say that I love more than myself. I lied to her today and it hurt her so bad she almost left me and I found myself in a puddle of tears.

 

But the thing is I am starting to think that maybe if I truly love her the best thing I can do is walk away. Being with me she will lose family, and finances. With me she may be extremely happy, but life will be more challenging.... What do you guys think??

[coolheadal]

Again the age here looking at 17 years difference but don't worry about it because your still adults here. But you do have one big problem with her that is, she is in arrange marriage and she can never leave it. She could try but in fear of being completely cut off by her family, friends and well everyone she knows. You on the other hand more experienced also have a family kids and that Ex Wife will always be in your life because of the kids until those kids are full grown adults then Ex Wife will be no more in your life as she is now.

 

But that shouldn't stop you from looking for next date and relationship to start. This girl, this married woman, you seem to be talking, dreaming and wanting to be with you really need to push her away and get on with your own life! Nothing cam ever come from this because she's in an arranged marriage that was done for both family sides. This is one of those types of arrangements you need to back away because you don't know what your getting involved with which can lead to trouble for her and you.

 

Move on!

[broken77]

Its a complicated relationship that might have too many challenges.. I also am 37, and recently started dating younger women. They make me so happy too. A lot of the characteristics you find in her you can find with other women in their 20s.

[elaine567]

I think you and she need to be aware of honour killings.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honor_killing

 

If she is married and in an arranged marriage, then I suggest bringing shame or dishonor upon the family or community, is something you will both be doing if you continue with this.

Whilst I do not want to generalise or presume anything re her family or the family of her husband, you are both playing with fire.

Some Pakistani families are very old school and have deep ties to the homeland.

This could be very serious and you both could be in danger here.

 

"The right to life of women in Pakistan is conditional on their obeying social norms and traditions."

[d0nnivain]

She's married. Until and unless that fact changes (& it won't give her culture & family money) everything else is irrelevant.

[whatitdo]

Yes... I agree that the marriage thing is a huge issue. I must admit that I did not know about it until we had been dating for 8 months or so... he up and moved to the states.

 

 

Now that he is here things are still great with us. the only issue is that he is trying to force her to be a wife, and well she has no desire. what I have found out after is that she never wanted to marry him. she was raised in the states and believes you should marry somebody that you love... not because they have financial gains for family business.

 

 

And really I have attempted to push her away... but when I bring it up she tells me to not leave her.. that no matter what she is not going to be with him. The question is do I just do it because I love her so much I don't want to see her have to deal with the drama with family, and don't want her to lose everything? or is it her choice? how do I make a choice for her.

[Hoosfoos]

Don't get involved with a Muslim. They are racist, and will not accept you as a man of colour and you will have to deal with the scrutiny of her father, uncles, brothers and male cousins who will think of you as inferior. Meanwhile they will threaten her with death if they find out about you.

[Ducktape]

Don't get involved with a Muslim. They are racist, and will not accept you as a man of colour and you will have to deal with the scrutiny of her father, uncles, brothers and male cousins who will think of you as inferior. Meanwhile they will threaten her with death if they find out about you.

Quoting for the irony of the post.

 

Have a good day.

[whatitdo]

ok, maybe we are not completely educated on that culture. They are not going to kill her. NOW maybe just maybe they would if they lived in Pakistan or Dubai. But this is the united states.

 

 

If they found out about me they would disown her, and she would be dead to them in that sense of the word. And if you read my post you would understand that is a major concern for me. Because her family is important to her, I don't want her to lose them, or for her family to lose face (respect) in their community.

 

 

Yet... she understands everything she would have to give up and is willing to do it. The thing is because I love her so much I do not want her to go through any of that. That my friends is the dilema

[d0nnivain]

Her husband is in the US & expects her to be his wife.

 

 

By omission, she lied to you for 8 months about her marital status.

 

 

Since she is here .she could initiate divorce proceedings. She is not doing that. Her continued willingness to remain married to him should be telling you this is hopeless.

[whatitdo]

Her husband is in the US & expects her to be his wife.

 

 

By omission, she lied to you for 8 months about her marital status.

 

 

Since she is here .she could initiate divorce proceedings. She is not doing that. Her continued willingness to remain married to him should be telling you this is hopeless.

 

 

 

Yes...she lied about being in an arranged marriage. I would agree with that completely. Let me ask you my friend... if your parents forced you to marry somebody in order to return to the states... and you did not talk to your spouse for two years... would you want to tell the world that your family did that to you?

 

 

Part two... she is not legally married. There is no divorce proceedings. The only thing she did was a ceremony in the church in Pakistan. There is nothing in the states or overseas that says she is married legally

[d0nnivain]

I can't say what I'd do because I have no background in that culture. As an American woman I have education, rights & supportive parents. As a Muslim woman, she most likely endures pressures I can't fathom. However she has enough independence to date you. So I do think disclosure is important & that she has some ability to take control over her own life.

 

 

You started this thread saying you thought you were going to end this relationship. If that is true, why are you fighting so hard to justify her actions?

[whatitdo]

cause I really don't want to end it.. I truly love her... she is the world to me.. it is just hard very very hard cause I want to do what is best for her.

[whatitdo]

I said I was thinking about ending it because of how much love I have for her. I don't want her to feel any sadness for losing her family, I don't want her to ever worry about anything financially... that is why I am having thoughts of walking away.

 

 

At my age I can tell you I am struggling with this whole thing because she is literally my world. I put her before everything and anything in my life. And I am not one of these guys that doesn't know women. I have done A LOT and I mean A LOT OF DATING. this is the first time I can say that I love a person more than I love myself

[welshbambi]

You have been together a year and it took her 8 months to tell you she was married. My first concern would be what else she has lied about.

 

Whether it is legal in the US, you need to be sure on how the US views marriages undertaken in other countries - the rest of the world does not follow US law which doesn't mean the marriage is necessarily illegal. And again, all of this is based on what she told you. Which, by the way, if she actually said there was a ceremony in a church and yet she's Muslim....well that just doesn't work. My final point on this is that I could be married in a ceremony in a church in the UK and it would be legal here and the US would have to recognise my marriage.

 

Also consider she could actually be happily married with this guy and you are just her bit on the side to rebel against the pressures her family put on her.

 

Yes, there are cultural differences and attitudes, traditions etc. Please, don't listen to scaremongering about honour killings and things like that. It's ridiculous and after everything that has happened in Ferguson NONE of us should be judging anyone or profiling them so stupidly. Save your judgement for people who actually do things to harm you and others. Until then, stop talking.

 

You obviously care for her, but honestly? You need to think about yourself. Think about the impact this situation has on YOUR life. Have you actually had a discussion about the long term future with her? If, after a year, you both cannot have a serious conversation about the future then that's not a good sign whatever the obstacles are or aren't.

 

Ultimately, it is not up to you to make decisions for her life. She needs to decide what she wants and go for it. Until then you will just be a bit on the side to be picked up and dropped at will. I really don't mean that to sound harsh but it sounds like you are ignoring your own well being without any hint of considering how this could affect you in the long run.

[Hoosfoos]

Quoting for the irony of the post.

 

Have a good day.

 

Laughing at your ignorance. Last time I checked, Muslims follow a certain religion, and are not a race. Guess the laugh's on you. Have a good day indeed. I stand by what I said.

[Ducktape]

Laughing at your ignorance. Last time I checked, Muslims follow a certain religion, and are not a race. Guess the laugh's on you. Have a good day indeed. I stand by what I said.

There irony wasn't that what you said was racist. You were calling out the "racists" by discriminating them and putting them all in the same boat. That's what the irony is.

 

That is not ignorance. Ignorance would be saying Muslims will not accept people of colour. With 1.6 billion adepts, the religion is well established on all continents and has members from all ethnicity. That includes the African continent, including deep african countries.

[whatitdo]

You have been together a year and it took her 8 months to tell you she was married. My first concern would be what else she has lied about.

 

 

Also consider she could actually be happily married with this guy and you are just her bit on the side to rebel against the pressures her family put on her.

 

Yes, there are cultural differences and attitudes, traditions etc. Please, don't listen to scaremongering about honour killings and things like that. It's ridiculous and after everything that has happened in Ferguson NONE of us should be judging anyone or profiling them so stupidly. Save your judgement for people who actually do things to harm you and others. Until then, stop talking.

 

You obviously care for her, but honestly? You need to think about yourself. Think about the impact this situation has on YOUR life. Have you actually had a discussion about the long term future with her? If, after a year, you both cannot have a serious conversation about the future then that's not a good sign whatever the obstacles are or aren't.

 

Ultimately, it is not up to you to make decisions for her life. She needs to decide what she wants and go for it. Until then you will just be a bit on the side to be picked up and dropped at will. I really don't mean that to sound harsh but it sounds like you are ignoring your own well being without any hint of considering how this could affect you in the long run.

 

 

The dropped at will part is a huge concern. Yet we have talked about the future a lot and that is the hard part. the future we talk about is right around the corner. I am trying to be supportive and tell her that I will stand by her side while she stays at her families home. On numerous occasions she has said she is ready and willing to leave to be with me. I stop her because she would be giving up everything... I worry that in losing her family, and the complete financial backing that they give her.

 

 

Her "husband" well he wants her to be a wife, and I understand that. the difference is that in the united states if she wanted a divorce she could just leave and that would be that. In her situation if she does not want to be with him any longer she loses her family and her family loses some of their businesses overseas that they received from the marriage. if it was just leave him and move on like we do in the states it would be sooo much easier.

 

 

So the reason I write this thread is because my heart is with her, and walking away would be easier for her in the long term... even if it is not what SHE wants today.

[whatitdo]

There irony wasn't that what you said was racist. You were calling out the "racists" by discriminating them and putting them all in the same boat. That's what the irony is.

 

That is not ignorance. Ignorance would be saying Muslims will not accept people of colour. With 1.6 billion adepts, the religion is well established on all continents and has members from all ethnicity. That includes the African continent, including deep african countries.

 

 

even at her masque they have black muslims... for her it is all about class and race... even if I was a black muslim her parents would have a huge issue because I am a different class and because they did not choose me for her.

[Hoosfoos]

There irony wasn't that what you said was racist. You were calling out the "racists" by discriminating them and putting them all in the same boat. That's what the irony is.

 

That is not ignorance. Ignorance would be saying Muslims will not accept people of colour. With 1.6 billion adepts, the religion is well established on all continents and has members from all ethnicity. That includes the African continent, including deep african countries.

 

 

Point taken. However a Muslim family would never take in a non muslim as one of their own, especially someone from a different racial background. The OP has already indicated the family's intolerant system of beliefs. That was the original point I was trying to make.

[Ducktape]

Point taken. However a Muslim family would never take in a non muslim as one of their own, especially someone from a different racial background. The OP has already indicated the family's intolerant system of beliefs. That was the original point I was trying to make.

Some christian families would never tolerate a non believer in their family, doesn't mean we can make a rule out of it.

 

While the OP's story indicates that such a scenario is in place, it is not sensible to claim that all muslim families will obey that rule, as you did. Just like in every religion, there's a spectrum of beliefs inside the muslim community, not all of them are extremists and "intolerant".

 

And that is why we shouldn't be so ourselves.

[welshbambi]

The dropped at will part is a huge concern. Yet we have talked about the future a lot and that is the hard part. the future we talk about is right around the corner. I am trying to be supportive and tell her that I will stand by her side while she stays at her families home. On numerous occasions she has said she is ready and willing to leave to be with me. I stop her because she would be giving up everything... I worry that in losing her family, and the complete financial backing that they give her.

 

 

Her "husband" well he wants her to be a wife, and I understand that. the difference is that in the united states if she wanted a divorce she could just leave and that would be that. In her situation if she does not want to be with him any longer she loses her family and her family loses some of their businesses overseas that they received from the marriage. if it was just leave him and move on like we do in the states it would be sooo much easier.

 

 

So the reason I write this thread is because my heart is with her, and walking away would be easier for her in the long term... even if it is not what SHE wants today.

 

 

I'm glad you have talked about the future - the next question to that is do you talk about it in a whimsical sense or has there been any mention of definites? There is a difference in romanticising what life "could" be like and actually talking about the possibilities and options and what you CAN do. If your conversations are more about how you would LIKE to see the future together, then it's not really talking about it. You need to start getting some answers (and I don;t mean that to sound as harsh as it does sweetie) but you really do, because until you gently but firmly get her to consider her options then you are always, always, always going to be a sideline. What a waste of a life for you.

 

Has her husband started asking her for children yet? Because that is likely to be the next obligation. And once the kids come along chances are he will also expect her to be a hands on mum, meaning she won;t be able to run along and see you at the drop of a hat. I understand that the family situation is the tearing point for her. I am lucky that I have a family that would support me no matter how terrible I was (even if they didn't like me for it). But I understand that there are cultures in the world where you have to suck things up for the sake of family respect and position.

 

HOWEVER - she only has one life. She is living in the US which has support, legal and otherwise, for people who want to live their lives in almost any way they choose. She would lose her family, yes, and that would be awful......but it's not impossible! What you have to ask yourself is if you really, really love her enough to be her family forever if they decide to leave. To offer your support now only to throw that back in her face in another year because you got bored or fell out of love would be so cruel. I am not suggesting that is the case at all, but you do need to be very very very sure about what you can offer her as well. It won;t just be love she needs, it will be a whole new support structure. Consider your wife's position in your life as part of that. Would your current lady expect your ex to be absent completely from your life? Where does that leave your kids? They 100% have a right to as good and regular a relationship with their dad as well. They would not thank you in the future if you appeared to choose another woman over them.

 

I really feel for you - a modern day Romeo and Juliet of sorts.

[whatitdo]

I'm glad you have talked about the future - the next question to that is do you talk about it in a whimsical sense or has there been any mention of definites? There is a difference in romanticising what life "could" be like and actually talking about the possibilities and options and what you CAN do. If your conversations are more about how you would LIKE to see the future together, then it's not really talking about it. You need to start getting some answers (and I don;t mean that to sound as harsh as it does sweetie) but you really do, because until you gently but firmly get her to consider her options then you are always, always, always going to be a sideline. What a waste of a life for you.

 

Has her husband started asking her for children yet? Because that is likely to be the next obligation. And once the kids come along chances are he will also expect her to be a hands on mum, meaning she won;t be able to run along and see you at the drop of a hat. I understand that the family situation is the tearing point for her. I am lucky that I have a family that would support me no matter how terrible I was (even if they didn't like me for it). But I understand that there are cultures in the world where you have to suck things up for the sake of family respect and position.

 

HOWEVER - she only has one life. She is living in the US which has support, legal and otherwise, for people who want to live their lives in almost any way they choose. She would lose her family, yes, and that would be awful......but it's not impossible! What you have to ask yourself is if you really, really love her enough to be her family forever if they decide to leave. To offer your support now only to throw that back in her face in another year because you got bored or fell out of love would be so cruel. I am not suggesting that is the case at all, but you do need to be very very very sure about what you can offer her as well. It won;t just be love she needs, it will be a whole new support structure. Consider your wife's position in your life as part of that. Would your current lady expect your ex to be absent completely from your life? Where does that leave your kids? They 100% have a right to as good and regular a relationship with their dad as well. They would not thank you in the future if you appeared to choose another woman over them.

 

I really feel for you - a modern day Romeo and Juliet of sorts.

 

We talk about it in a serious way actually. I truly believe she wants to move out with me and start our life together. I just look at everything she is giving up and I worry about her happiness once she does, if that makes sense.

 

Her husband... Man. The issue with her husband is the fact she refuses to be intiment with him. Some people on here would say she is lying and such and they have all the right to feel that way. But when she tells me that and when I see the stress and difficulty she is experiencing because she refuses to move in with him I have no problem believing her. So as of right now I'm the only man actually in her life. He wants to be in her life and her family have taken away her car, her phone, most of her freedom and said she can have it all back if she moves in with her husband. She chooses to be with me, I'm what makes her happy in her words.

 

The reason I started this thread not because I don't love her or because I want to leave her. But because I only want to do what is best for her... And I'm struggling with that

[welshbambi]

I really can see that and I think you are a lovely soul for that. Many people would be encouraging her to come with them because it would make them feel good, instead of looking at the impact on everyone else's life!

 

I can't comment on what is truth and you have to trust your gut and knowledge of your lady so if you say you believe something 100% I'll take that. I just wanted to ask pertinent questions just in case you hadn't considered them.

 

It's strange that although married to him and him now living in the same country, she is not living with him. If her family have taken away all her communication and mobility, then how is she spending time with you?

 

And if she is currently living with you, and they haven't cut her off already, then maybe that's a sign she wouldn't lose her family completely if she left?

 

Sorry if it sounds like I'm being insensitive, I'm just trying to get a full picture of the situation.

 

I reiterate, I think you are being very considerate about her situation.

[whatitdo]

First thing first where she is living. She is living with her brother and that is why they are able to take everything away from her. They are telling her she can have whatever she wants... and I mean whatever. They offered to buy them a new home, range rover, etc. which leads me to answer your other question.

 

 

She isn't living with him, and they took everything away from her. What they don't know is that I gave her a cell phone so we are able to text, and talk when her brothers aren't home. As far as seeing each other, we met at school... so until last week we would see each other 4-5 times a week. now that we are on break it has been extremely hard because she has to come up with excuses to leave the house. prime example is I saw her for an hour or so early when she was at the salon.

 

 

but since school ended on the 19th I have only been able to see her twice. It has been challenging for the both of us. now, prior to him moving to the states she was able to pretty much come and go as she pleased as long as she was home by 8pm. yes you rad that right she is 20 and her curfew was basically 8pm. I have dealt with the restriction since we met. At first it wasn't a big deal, as time has went on and we became closer it does get annoying... but I knew about it when we first met so for it to bother me now would be unfair.

 

 

I also wanted to say thank you for understanding how challenging this is for me and why I am really struggling with any decision. I mean I have talked to her about it. it isn't just something I am expressing on here. Each time I have brought it up she asks me tells me "if you don't want to be with me just leave" and that explains that it is her decision not mine