The Long and Winding Road To Separation and Divorce

[jonasv]

Hello All,

 

First time posting here, but I have been reading posts for the past couple weeks...great stuff! I'm sure this situation has been told many times before on here, but there weren't any (that I read), that combined what's going on. Maybe I just wanted to write this novel out for my own good as therapy!

 

Anyways, quick background:

We are roughly the same age (mid-30's), dated for about a year before we got married and have been married for 12 years. We have 6 kids (all in grade school), I work (many times long hours), and she does not. My parents are still together, hers divorced when she was 15 (after there was abuse).

 

Our marriage has been rocky to say the least. She's had issues with alcohol, gambling (for a bit), and what I would just call "excessiveness" (spending, blah, blah, fill in the blank). There were definitely happy periods, but for the most part, it feels like we were holding on until we could catch our breath, OR I was always waiting for something else bad to happen. I wasn't the best husband at all since I was pretty much always upset or just generally grouchy! We rarely dated, and even though I love(d) her, I was always upset with her about something. With that many little kids though, you're so busy all the time, maybe you don't notice that your marriage sucks. We were just going through the motions of "being married" I guess and not really having a good marriage. Very little sex or intimacy involved (she usually only initiated when she was trying to say sorry for something). She had some issues that caused strife, but I share equal blame (or most of the blame) as to why its failing due to the lack of love I showed.

 

ON TO THE CURRENT SITUATION: My wife and I are currently "separated" and have been for roughly the last year. She told me early this year she was "done" and the we needed to separate (and I needed to move out). She said she wasn't "moving on" to someone new, or didn't hate me (I'm sure what everyone says), but she just didn't want to live like roommates anymore. She said she still loved me, and thought that I was a great father, but just didn't have any feelings any longer (She recently told me she had basically fallen out of love a year prior to asking for the separation, but was willing to work it out for the kids). I did not (do not) want a divorce and I still love her.

 

Unfortunately, money has been tight the past couple years, and I didn't have any way to pay all the bills, as well as a new place for myself. After a few months of basically being very uncomfortable in my own house (no huge fights, but sucks to be there when you know your wife wants you gone), I agreed to move in with her brother's family about an hour away from our house. During this time, I paid all the bills (still do), but really wasn't supposed to come by unless it was to do something with the kids. It wasn't in any nasty or mean, she just wanted some boundaries I suppose. To make it even more awkward, my parents live 5 houses down on the other side of the street The problem is, while we're supposed to be separated, and while I've been "officially" out of the house, she'll routinely ask me if I want to spend the night because one the kids has an early football game, or she needs to be at something early in the morning, or various other reasons, and that would save me from having to drive out super early to be there. She always asks of course (doesn't "need me to spend the night"), and if I can't, there's no blow back about it. Honestly, I always try to be there if only just to be with the kids more. I've always slept on the couch and nothing has ever happened between us. I've spent probably 1/2 of my days and nights at my house, 1/4 out of town working, and 1/4 at her sister's house. I usually end up hanging out the rest of the day there as well after I spend the night. Every once in awhile, she'll throw in before she asks that she "doesn't want to send any mixed signals" by asking. Not mixed signals that she wants to sleep with me, but mixed about moving back in and staying together. Throughout this time, I've been generally miserable and not supper happy. Happy enough on the outside to function in society, but not happy around her and the kids (which was one of her biggest complaints). I was basically feeling sorry for myself. We were still going through the motions...this time the "motions" had just shifted a little bit! She never filed for divorce and kept saying she "needed to do that"

 

ON TO THE (MORE) CURRENT SITUATION: Part of why I was always upset with her, was that she never seemed to have time for me or the kids. She was always involved with Alcoholics Anonymous (going to meetings or meeting with her sponsor, meeting with other members, going to functions, etc, etc) which seemed to take up all her time. Or.....it was cycling. She was going on rides that were 5 hours long, or reading about races, etc, etc. It was make me insane that she had time to do that, but couldn't put clothes away, or drive the kids to football, so on and so on. Obviously, she just didn't want to be around ME, and was using those to take the place of a loving husband (and she's told me that).

 

Part of AA is obviously helping those who need help and being friends with people that are still struggling. She has one friend that really struggles and does some crazy stuff....and with my wife's "excessiveness", she really gets wrapped up in helping. Her friend has a husband and kids and she became friends with them as well because of all the involvement she has with her friend. I didn't think anything of how much she is on the phone (almost 5000 minutes a month), until I was looking at the bill and the numbers she calls. Turns out that she talks to her friend's husband for almost half that time! I had thought she was talking to her friend all the time (along with her other friends, and family). I knew that she spoke to him of course since she would tell me stories or updates about the ongoing drama, but just didn't realize the extent. I didn't (and still don't) think there's any physical relationship between my wife and him, but after being a complete wreck for week after seeing the bill, I asked her about it. She said that they were not involved, but of course she did talk to him all the time. She said "he was nice to her" and "fun to talk to". She said that they had discussed dating in that maybe it would be fun to give it a shot, but my wife has always said (and still says) she will not date anyone until the kids are out of the house because of the way her mom handled her divorce and dating. It crushed me to hear those things, but I was relieved in a way. I'm just taking what she said at face value so hopefully its the truth. We actually had a good talk out of it and for about a week afterwards, it was weird (in a good way). It was like we were dating again in the sense that we would talk for a couple hours a day in total after talking on the phone for about 2 or 3 hours a month previously! I'm not sure why that talk changed anything, but it did. I'm sure I was acting happier and that had an effect on her. Same rules still applied afterwards as far as living situation goes, and about a week after that talk we had another where I basically just spilled my guts. I didn't ask for her back or beg, but I just apologized for not loving her enough, taking blame for the situation, and wishing that I could do it all over the right way. BUT, I left it with that I was sorry for trying to hold on to her, and that since I honestly felt like I loved her more than ever, that I wanted her to be happy and that I wanted to help her file for divorce if that's what she really wanted. Up until that point, I was relatively unhelpful with getting finances together, agreeing to everything, etc. During the talk and for about 20 minutes afterwards, she just cried her eyes out and said she was "so confused" and "didn't know what to think". Maybe that's common, but I was honestly surprised. I asked her again to get me the paperwork she started about a week after that so I can finish it, but she said she was still confused on what to do. I never asked about what that meant or pushed it again.

 

That was roughly a week ago. On Christmas Eve and I was spending the night to help with presents and to be there for Christmas morning. We ended up staying up until 5AM talking, getting stuff ready, but during that she asked my to massage her legs since she went on a long bike ride earlier that evening. I said sure, I wasn't expecting it to go anywhere (I've done it for her before while separated), it was just to get the knots out and with a plastic roller, and she was wearing yoga pants. Anyways, during that, she took her pants off because the material was interfering with the roller (not trying to turn this into a dirty novel, sorry!), and I just continued to go about the massage. Anyways, we ended up getting frisky a little after that (not full on sex, but close enough), and afterwards she was a little upset that it happened. Lighthearted about it, but upset like she feels she took advantage of me (I'm guessing not to lead me on). We haven't brought it up since and I'm just kind of going with the flow, but I'm honestly trying not to read too much into it or think about it too much!

 

I am sorry about this novel! I started writing about all this and it turned into this crazy post. Probably too much to digest, but if anyone has any advice, warnings, admonishment...please let me know. I do truly feel like I love my wife more than ever (which sucks when you're getting a divorce obviously), but also feel like because everything was so crazy before, we never had a chance, and it would be great to try again. Or if no one wants to get into this mess, maybe someone going through the same crazy stuff can glean some useful info out of it (or at least we can whine about it together)

 

Thanks!

[Mr. Lucky]

You post is long but thankfully framed in coherent paragraphs. Also well written, makes your situation understandable. Are you this good at communicating with her?

 

I get what you're saying about AA as I have a family member involved in recovery and NA. Our inside joke is that they try to keep you so busy with meetings, groups and sponsor conversations there's no time left to use drugs. I don't know how you'd do it with 6 kids and the attendant responsibilities.

 

You don't mention marriage counseling and, with so much at stake, seems like you'd be prime candidates. Would she be willing to try?

 

Mr. Lucky

Edited December 27, 2014 by Mr. Lucky

[KBarletta]

What Mr. Lucky said.

 

Sounds like there was no abuse or cheating here, just two partners who got caught up in life and forgot that a good marriage is a lot of work. Easy to do with six kids I imagine.

 

It's been a year. If one of you really wanted a divorce you'd have filed by now I'd say. Use the new year as a fresh start and try to rebuild the relationship through counseling.

[Stuck75]

So sorry you're going through this. First of all, I can only imagine the pressure you must be under to raise and support 6 children- and I commend you for being a supportive and involved father!

 

Your situation sounds complicated but from a woman's perspective (and from experience), I can try to imagine what your wife may be going through. It sounds like she loves you but maybe feels like the two of you cannot make each other happy anymore? She must be struggling to fully commit to divorce or else, she would've gone through with it and probably wouldn't want you around so much. You said that much of the responsibility for the breakdown of the marriage is on you. You have made it clear to your wife that you love her and you want to stay married- That's a good start (my husband won't even do that). However, she doesn't want to just hear that you're sorry...... she wants to see changes in you that show you're willing to work on whatever issues you have. She wants to know that you can be happy together (not just continue to struggle though life). I feel that some others on here cannot fully appreciate the complications of children and financial issues, the busyness of life, etc- Well, I can! That being said, I know how hard this all is but........

 

For your own sake, I think you need to do the following:

In addition to marriage counseling, you need to work on yourself- whatever that may involve (going to the gym, personal development, uplifting books, counseling, etc). Basically, you need to get yourself together- and in a healthy state of mind. You can't make anyone else happy if you're miserable. It sounds as if your own unhappiness may have been bringing her down (you said you were often grouchy and complaining). By the way, I would never recommend doing this just for her- you need to do it for yourself.

 

By focusing on your own happiness and well being, there are 2 things that could happen here. Your wife may realize that YOU are the person who makes her laugh and someone that she enjoys talking with and being around (instead of her friend's husband). Also, you'll be much more equipped to handle her issues in a healthy way that is not harmful to you (and it sounds like she definitely has some issues). Or, if she (or you) decide that staying married is not the best thing for you, you'll be much more equipped to handle moving on with your life.

 

Maybe I am projecting my own feelings onto your wife somehow- but, I know that in my situation, I desperately want to keep my commitment to my marriage for everyone's sake. There are lots of issues but I know that if my husband would just commit to being responsible (in our finances) and treat me well all the time (not just for a few days when we are trying to work on things). Authentic kindness, gentleness, tenderness- I NEED those things to feel loved- then we would not be in this place right now. One can forgive the past, but the offending person cannot just keep doing the wrong things and expect grace every time (that goes both ways). Oh, I will forgive him, because I refuse to let unforgiveness poison me, but I won't keep subjecting myself to the same hurt over & over again.

 

Anyway, sorry I tend to ramble! Good luck to you! I hope that you do work things out with your wife and you can both be happier on the other side. If not, I hope you find peace, and are able to move on.

[jonasv]

Thanks for the replies guys....sorry I have been absent, just been busy working and running around!

 

Mr Lucky and KBarletta:

 

She had mentioned marriage counseling early in 2014 and she went to a few sessions on her own, but by the time I started going, she wasn't interested in going any longer. She wanted to do separate sessions at first (I guess to work on our own problems as well). I went to a few sessions and once I told the counselor that my wife was through with the marriage, she basically said there was no point in coming any longer. I agree with that. At this point, even though we are getting along well, it would not go over well to mention counseling. Not that she would be mad about it, just that she would think its weird since "the marriage is over" and "she doesn't have any feelings for me". Those were phrases from early on and I honestly haven't tried talking about anything like that for awhile since it seems pointless.

 

Stuck75:

 

I totally understand what you're saying. I've been a "changed" person (for the most part) for the last few months. She gets a little nervous or uncomfortable sometimes with the changes. She loves to run and bike, stay active, and I have not been into any of that for a long time. I used to be, but again, life got in the way. I have started running, trying to be more introspective, and basically have been a lot more relaxed about everything. I don't know if she is nervous because she thinks I am doing this stuff "just to get her back" or what the deal is. Maybe she really just doesn't have any feelings for me anymore and just is afraid I will get hurt more. I've also been cooking, cleaning, helping with the kids (all stuff I did every once in awhile, but now its in overdrive). My guess is she just thinks it will stop eventually.

 

 

I just spent that last 4 days at the house, (before heading out of town for 4 days working), and it was great. Granted, I was really only there to take care of her because she ran a huge race and was wrecked for a few days. I basically took care of the house, kids, and her (happily) while she was down. We were happy, joking...stuff was great (for the most part). Even slept in the same bed a couple nights...just slept:) Once she was back up on her feet (basically the night of New Years Eve), she was pretty grouchy, and I guess I took that as upset with me somehow. She kept mentioning that there needed to be boundaries and that I could stay and hang with the kids for New Years Eve, but other than that, it needed to get back to "normal". Anyways, her mood changed then and I left town the morning of New Years Day....only talked to her once since. There was no fight or anything, just weird how it turned on a dime. I brought up the divorce papers again while I was there and she said " she didn't want me to have to do it by myself".

 

I feel like I should maybe just give her space and not really call her while I'm gone? It seems like the wrong thing to do if things are going relatively well? I really have no idea anymore. Why in the world wait this long to do the paperwork (especially since I've almost been hounding her), if she still wants a divorce? She brings up needing to do it so she can apply for financial aid (school), but just never happens, or doesn't want me to do it. I forgot to mention that her friend's husband (and friend) are in the middle of a divorce as well. She's still maintains its just platonic, but I'm not so sure at this point. I guess maybe I just waited too long to make changes and try....This pretty much sucks!

[idoltree]

She's had issues with alcohol, gambling (for a bit), and what I would just call "excessiveness" (spending, blah, blah, fill in the blank).

I've known someone like this. Always busy, always on the go, filling up her life with unhealthy behaviors, and then just healthy behaviors (running, biking, etc.) She was an excellent housekeeper, always keeping up with chores, not sleeping much. She attracted men who found her on the go lifestyle to be attractive, since they themselves were searching for meaning in their lives and the structured nature of hers was mistaken for "being a good person with a plan for her life." After she became a mother, that became her identity, and she was able to continue filling up her life by scheduling large amounts of activities for the kids, by worrying about their grades, anything external to herself.

 

She'd never just "be". She was empty, beneath it all, and she was terrified of being still lest she have to confront that emptiness.

 

The emptiness was the reason behind the "go go go" of her life. Obviously, healthy behaviors are better than unhealthy, but she was still running from herself. In addition to things to do to keep busy, she looked to romantic relationships to complete her; to fill up the emptiness.

 

I hope it's not offensive to say this, as I'm sure they're well loved, but couldn't 6 kids all in grade school be yet another example of your wife's "excessiveness"? Twelve years, six kids - you guys have never stopped to breathe and just be. This behavior sounds familiar, no?

 

So I'd suggest that now that the honeymoon period of your relationship wore off, and now that you're not busy busy busy with pregnancies and babies and very young kids, she feels the original emptiness creeping back up on her. She's looking to you with skepticism, because her expectations are that if she were happy with her husband, he'd keep the emptiness at bay.

 

The reality is that because it's something inside of her, no relationship partner can solve it, but she doesn't understand that. Stopping to introspect to understand that would mean the emptiness has time to creep up on her. So it's more "go go go" and part of that is running away from something she's decided is making her unhappy.

 

With someone like her, I'm not surprised that you're on the chopping block. And if you look at what is driving all those troublesome behaviors of hers, you may not be surprised either.

 

This is out of your hands. I echo what others have said that with 6 kids, you really should give marriage counseling a shot. Perhaps bring up a theory to the counselor about her behaviors being an avoidance strategy on her part, and that you suspect that whatever she is avoiding may be behind her unhappiness with you.

 

Don't speculate on whatever she's avoiding; that's not your place to figure out. It's hers. You can't fix her, she has to want to do it for herself. But sometimes, for these types, it's easier to keep running.

 

If you go through with the divorce, please try your hardest only to interact with her regarding needed parenting matters. You can't go NC with kids, but that's the closest you can get. Don't confuse this with "unfriendliness"; you can be friendly, just not friends. Don't be there for her and give her the perks she used to enjoy as part of your relationship. No fixing things for her, no letting her talk about her feelings, no relying on you other than you being a good dad to the kids. Don't confuse that with being a good husband. Divorce means giving those perks up, and if you continue to give them to her, you cushion the impact of her eliminating you from her life. Don't do that for her.

 

You need to think about the long-term. If your goal is to do the best you can to get her to realize she made a mistake with you, letting her live with all of the repercussions of her choice to leave is your best shot. Trying to show her that you love her and want to make her life better will get you taken for granted. Since you feel you weren't the best husband in marriage, you'll be tempted to "prove yourself" to her. Don't do that. Discuss your mistakes in counseling, but don't atone for them with an expectation that it will bring her back. It won't. Be firm and draw boundaries if you want any hope of her realizing she gave up on a good guy.

 

And rest assured that if I'm right, if she runs to another guy, he'll suffer the same fate as you as soon as the honeymoon period ends. Nothing about her behavior will change unless she addresses what is causing it.

 

Oh, and P.S. If you do divorce, expect to continue to be impacted by her excessiveness via activities for the six kids. You're going to be challenged to find time for yourself. Draw boundaries so you can be a emotionally well-balanced dad to your kids and eventually find happiness in a new relationship, otherwise this one is gonna control your time to the moon and back.

Edited January 2, 2015 by idoltree