Need some pointers fast, time is short !

[InnerFire]

Hello everybody, I need some help here, so if any love experts out there care to share, I'd really appreciate.

Here goes.

 

Some time ago, on 8th December, I met this girl at a dinner organised by an association with which I'm working in this period. I got seated next to her at the table, and she was the one that started talking to me. She was beautiful, and talking to her I discovered that she's pretty smart too. We are in a foreign country now, she's from my country, she asked me if I'm alone in here, said yes, asked her the same thing, and she said yes too. She seemed interested, actually she made it pretty clear she's interested, however, I, having a natural born talent of being a stupid ass exactly when I shouldn't, I didn't got anywhere. After dinner we all got in the courtyard to smoke and chit-chat. At this point I didn't make any other move, I kind of lost myself a bit, she was around, with some other girls, and I didn't talked anymore to her, didn't asked for a phone number, nothing. I know, dumbass move.

Next days, tried to "accidentally" meet her again in order to ask her out for a coffee, spending some more time than usual in front of the association building when I knew she had to leave (couldn't stumble upon her inside, we're in two separated areas), however didn't see her.

 

Then, one day, on 17th December, strange thing - I was waiting for a bus somewhere on a street near our workplace and I see her and a girl that was with her at dinner, at about 6-7 meters from me. She had her back turned, looking for something in her purse, didn't see me, her friend saw me and she said "Hi", I said "Hi" and before I could make any move, this crush of mine just started walking fast, without looking back, dragging her friend, which didn't seem to understand what's going on, and while following her was trying to point to me, like saying "Hey, what you doing, it's that guy..." She dragged her friend in the first bar in their way, then just got back out after 2 seconds, then went a bit down the street and stopped like 30 meters from me, and she started explaining something to her friend, who was now looking in my direction every once in a while. She seemed very agitated. After a few minutes, they passed by me in a hurry, and she just threw me a fugitive look and made a very shallow gesture of "Hello" with her hand, and went away. This seemed very strange to me, because she seemed to simply take off after I said "Hi" to her friend, however didn't turned around to see who it was, therefore it could have been just a coincidence and she was just in a hurry, or she recognised my voice. Then I saw that she was acting like she was trying to hide from me, getting in the bar, then right back out, then explaining something to her friend while her friend kept checking on me made me think that she was talking about me. I then went into a nearby store, and 10 minutes after, when I got back to the bus station, I saw they returned in front of the bar, she was still agitated, and explaining things to her friend. After that I saw them going away again, this time in the opposite direction, then my bus arrived and that was it in that day. This made me think that she might have seen me waiting for her in front of our workplace and this made her think I'm some kind of maniac that is now stalking her, it was the only explanation I could find to her change of behaviour, considering that as soon as she heard my voice she took off, went through the first open door she found, then she realised it's a bar and got back out, started explaining things to her friend in agitation, hardly said "Hi" and went away, then she returned when she thought I was gone, while I was in the store, and went away again when she saw me back in there. Even though, it didn't seem a very solid explanation, because I didn't wait for her in a place where I didn't belong, like in front of her house or something, I was in front of our workplace, indeed, just hanging around, but still there could have been thousands of motives to wait there.

After this, I stopped waiting for her to show up, just minded my own bussines, I knew there was another dinner coming up, so just did nothing. One evening I met her, this time totally by accident, not even in the schedule I knew she had, somewhere near the same street, I was coming, she was going, on a bicycle. Passed by me, said "Hi" without even looking at me. It was obvious her behaviour was changed, and I had no other explanation for this, just that she mistaken me for a stalker. Definitely, if someone is to blame for that, is me, because I backed off from flirting with her, then waited for her in a few different days. Doesn't really cry out "stalker", but... it was the only explanation I had. She said she was alone, so the posibility of another guy was out of the picture.

 

Ok, so the dinner arrives. I knew she also goes to school in the evening so it was a posibility she might not be there. And she wasn't. However, her friend was, the one I said "Hi" to in the bus station, but acting much more reserved towards me now. I still managed to talk to this friend of hers for a bit, her attitude was somehow neutral, just a short casual conversation, and I asked her how come she (my crush) isn't there. She said that she's at school, I said that I want to talk to her, and if she has a phone number of her. I knew she will answer "a phone number? naah...", so I then said "Ok, then I'll give you my number, you can give it to her..." and I handed her one of my business cards (I'm a visual artist) with my phone number and my facebook. She said "alright, I'll give it to her".

 

Ooook...This happened on 20th December if I'm not mistaking. I was really wondering if she will call. Next day, I meet her again, on the same street, this time in the morning, also again out of her schedule. I know it seems suspicious how I just kept running into her, but I swear I wasn't stalking, when I was waiting for her to pass by, haven't seen her, after I stopped waiting for her, I ran into her twice. So that morning I ran into her for the second time. She was still on her bicycle, passing by me, I said "Hi" waiting a shallow "Hello" or maybe even to be ignored, thinking that she already got my unwanted bussines card, but I was surprised to be greeted by a very joyful "Hellooo !!! Good day !" coming from her, along with a large smile. I took advantage of that and added a "How are you ?" "Fine, thank you" she said before went away on her bicycle. Well, this time a positive change of behaviour, this means she was glad she got my business card, she was glad to see that I also made it clear I am interested. I was expecting her call for the days to come, however she didn't call, nor contacted me through Facebook. I thought maybe she changed her mind, or maybe her joyful attitude that morning was because inside of her she was happy to see that I am interested, but still thinks I'm a stalker and still has drawbacks.

 

Then Christmas time came, and along that some other dinners. First one, in the evening of 24th. She arrived in a hurry, I was outside with some other people, said a very fast "Hello" to the group of people and got inside, she caught a glimpse of me, but didn't pay any attention. Inside, we got seated to different tables, at some point our paths crossed in the hall, she was with that friend of hers, and threw me a very casual and somehow bored "hello", without smiling or anything, and went her way. That was all that evening, didn't got to talk to her anymore, nothing.

 

Then yesterday's Christmas Lunch arrived, and I was determined to get something. So, she arrives, doesn't see me I guess, gets in, we get seated at different tables. Didn't look at me throughout the whole lunch. Then people went outside to smoke, and I saw that a guy (which I know he hits on girls looking for one-night-stands) managed to get her when she was alone and now was talking to her. He was no threat to me, knowing that I can always blast him out when it comes to looks and common sense, plus that his cheap attitude of pick-up is a joke. Needed a bit of courage to talk to her though, got it in about 3 minutes, and went right to them. When she saw me there, she smiled, friendly though, said "Merry Christmas" and shook my hand. All three of us kept talking, and considering that both our IQ's (mine and the girl's) were much higher than that guy's, the conversation turned pretty low on his side at some point. Then they started giving out the coffees, so she left as soon as they made the call, pretty much leaving the conversation, and me and the guy, hanging, maybe because she didn't like the situation of being hunted like that by two guys. I don't think it was me that was disturbing her, rather the other guy. I went, had my coffee, waited for her to get out again, she did, talking with some friends right next to me, I interfeered when she needed a lighter, and kept talking to her. We were left alone pretty soon, she stayed and talked to me, however just very casual conversation, 100% buddy talk, wasn't all opened and laughing like she was when I met her for the first time. I didn't mention absolutely anything about the business card I gave her friend or the phone call I was expecting, I noticed she was usually looking away when talking to me, then noticed I was doing the same thing and started looking her in the eyes, then she responded by doing the same thing. Then, at what I thought it was the good moment, I popped the question "Look, I wanted to ask you, would you want to get out for a coffee once, when you're free ?" "For a coffee, yes, at the end of the week" she replied practically like she had the line prepared, sounded like "for a coffee and that's all" immediately followed by "I have to ask my boyfriend about it, but as friends, for a coffee, yes". She wasn't looking me in the eye anymore, she was looking somehow aside, like to a distant point. So now a boyfriend, real or not, appeared in the picture. "Ok" I said "then may I have your phone number ?" She gave it to me, I gave her mine. "So at the end of the week you say ?" "Yes. Now...I have to go" she said, and went right away. Went she passed by me, she tapped my shoulder as a hello, a pretty firm tap that seemed to say "see you around, buddy", like men do to eachother, but to me it also had a feel of "now the ball's in your court, dummy, be careful how you handle it". And that was it, she was gone. Afterwards, being intrigued about the "boyfriend" thing, I asked a guy which I know I can trust and who stayed at the same table as her, and I saw them talking a bit, if he knows her. He said he doesn't know her that well, I asked if he knows anything about a boyfriend, and he said that she did mentioned during lunch that one of those days she has to go to some friend's house for dinner with her boyfriend, but he doesn't know if that's true or not. I told him that she first told me that she's alone in here, and he suggested that then it's possible that she just mentioned the boyfriend because she knew she was in mixed company, my friends and her friends, and mentioned that just to make it heard, but it's a long shot. And a long shot it is. "Women...they're sneaky, huh ? " concluded this good man separated from his wife and kid before he went away.

 

Anyway, I got her number, which was a damn good thing, considering all the trouble I went through to get it for more than two weeks, went to the bathroom, found it difficult to dance in such an enclosed space, but did it nevertheless then I started measuring and calculating the posibilities and trying to put up some kind of plan for the next days. Like what to talk to her, how to talk to her, how to behave, what attitude should I adopt, where should I take her, how should I built this whole thing in order to get somewhere. End of the week is Saturday, damn, it's just around the corner, and I am as clueless as the stupid house-servant in the Sherlock Holmes stories.

 

1. The biggest question was "If she has a boyfriend, why did she gave me her phone number ? She cannot actually believe that I only want to be friends, considering the obvious interest I showed, she knows I want more, and still goes on". She doesn't seem to be missing friends, and there's no hidden interest she might have, related to career or whatever that I might help her with, and she knows that.

 

2. Why did she first liked me, then ran away scared when she saw me, then was shallow to me, then happy when she got the business card, then didn't call, then she almost ignored me at the dinner of 24th, then today she's all buddy-like, accepts to go for a coffee but she has to ask her boyfriend ("but for a coffee, yes, as friends"), and gives me her number, while looking thoughtful in the distance, and she takes off IMMEDIATELY after she gives me the number, like she stayed there to talk waiting for me to ask it, or like she was undecided about giving it, and so fleed the scene right after she did it. I know about mixed signal, but that's when a girl is all nice and then she's suddenly being all cold, and then again. And her almost running away from me in the street was no do-over, that was real and unplanned. And that tap on the shoulder, that did broke the touching barrier more than a handshake. Not that I would mind if she would smash the hell out of all the barriers, but isn't that a bit of a sign of enclosing to someone ? And still, was definitely a buddy-like tap.

 

3. Did she decided to give me her number because I finally showed some balls and stepped in when I saw that other guy was hitting on her ?

 

4. Considering that she wouldn't give her phone number to a maniac, that scenario about her thinking I am one is out of the picture... right ? Oh, and she also told me where she studies...wouldn't tell that to a maniac...right ?

 

5. Am I somehow the subject in a fine demonstration of the art of getting friend-zoned ?

 

6. So I'm supposed to take her to a coffee on Saturday. Here I definitely need advices. Should I mention the boyfriend thing, like ask for how long they've been together, to know what I have to put up with ? Or should I just act like she doesn't have one, be cheerful and funny, make her laugh and just get to know her, and let her know me ? Play my best cards, make her feel great and hope for the best ? Look for a nice, cosy and classy cafe where can talk undisturbed, or go for something a bit more "light", like a shopping mall ?

 

7. A coffee is 5 minutes. That's crap. In here, the cup of coffee has the same size as the brain of that guy who tried to hit on her, it's also half-full like his brain and you drink it in the same time it took me to eliminate him. Here, people who go for a coffee get in the bar and they get out after 5 minutes. Literally 5-6 minutes. Definitely it can't be just a coffee, I need to escalate from this point, even if she said "for a coffee, yes", making it sound like "just for a coffee", because there won't be no time to talk. One thing would be to take her to a really nice place and just get a coffee and something else, then get talking and all that, hoping she enjoys the conversation and will stay for another round, this way I would have a good time and a good private atmosphere for all the get-to-know-eachother and stuff, and maybe go for a walk through the town after that. Other way would be to say "well, let's see where can we go" and finally get to a shopping mall, where there are much more stuff to do, I could buy more time, but won't be quality time, there I can provide just a very funny time (if I can get her to the Arcade, lol), but would be hard to get to know each other, no privacy and agitated atmosphere, and would look indeed like it's just buddies hanging around, and smells like friendzone, am I right ?

 

8. Another important thing. There's another dinner this evening, she will be there again. What do I do ? I know, pleasant conversation, be funny, etc, but do I mention anything tomorrow about the Saturday coffee, like ask her if it's ok to call her around xx pm, or when she leaves should I say something like "Bye, see you tomorrow", or I should just keep quiet about it, this way not giving her an ocassion to cancel it, keep talking about other stuff, and just call her on Saturday ?

 

9. Another small worry I have for tonight is that that guy who was hitting on her saw me I got her number, and later he told me "I saw you got her number", "And... ?" "I gotta get it too" , he said. "She's not that kind of girl, man" "You think so ? They all say that" "She didn't told me that, because I never asked, I saw she's not that kind of girl" was our little conversation. He's a bit of a jerk, and tomorrow might ask her phone number, she'll say she's got a boyfriend, and he might ask her then why did she gave it to me, making her think I bragged about getting her number and destroying my credibility. Well, let's hope this doesn't happen.

 

Now, I would like to thank my readers who must have really appreciated my style if they got so far (Uhm...anyone still out there ? ). My sincere apologies for writting such a wall of text, but I REALLY don't wanna screw up with this girl, she's not the everyday common chick, I talked to her and I discovered great qualities in her, and now I tried to cover every question I would need an answer to, I just don't wanna make any more mistakes. Let me know, what do you think of all this, I even numbered out the issues, what do you understand of the aspects of this situation ? Why do you think she does the things I said she does, what do you understand from her actions, as I described them ? They're listed and numbered up there. Please, enlighten me, my Christmas present was her phone number, and I spent the rest of the Christmas day brainstorming about this whole thing. If you made it through this whole novel, please help me out here, guys and gals, please. I really need it. I thank you in advance. I'm really grateful for every little help and word of advice.

 

P.S. If I wrote this about two weeks when I'm not even with her, imagine if we get together and one day decide to write our autobiography.

[Winterina]

Did not read everything but got the point. First, stop thinking and analysing every little thing SO MUCH!!! Second, do not call her and do not go out with her. She is playing games. She wants to play with you because she sees she can. If you want to be a sucker and run after her like she is the only woman on earth while she is holding a stick with carrot in front of you then go ahead.

[InnerFire]

If it ever gets to that point, I'll back away. Maybe I won't realise it right away, but in the next second I will, and I'll back away. Right now, if she does have a relationship but still looking, I'd try and see what I can do. Because, if things continue, and I play all my cards right, sooner or later I'll start expecting things from her too, and if she won't be willing to give, I will back off. But for this I want to make sure I won't make anymore mistakes, and if something doesn't go well, I'll know it wasn't because of some stupid thing I did, but because she...well, whatever she would be doing.

[Winterina]

Even if you got together, would you be able to trust a woman that lied to you that she is not in a relationship when she actually was?

You think that when she meets a guy that is interested next time (while she is in relationship with you) she will not try to get him going by telling how she does not have a boyfriend?

Maybe you just want to have her and this will all mean nothing to you in which case, go ahead, good luck. But if you are looking for something serious and a peace of mind then this might not be the one.

[InnerFire]

You are right. This thing, saying she's alone when she's not, might have any reason behind. But again, she might actually be alone, and lied about having a boyfriend. From what I know about her, that might very well be the case - her schedule leaves her with only 3 free hours a day, and she lives with that girl friend of hers, not with some boyfriend. About meeting a guy when she's in a relationship with me, well if a woman is not satisfied with what she has, she will keep searching. I, instead, I know myself, I know how I am in a relationship, I know how a woman feels when she's with me. If she won't be satisfied with me neither, then ok, I don't mind if she will keep her options opened. If she won't be satisfied with me, I will see that. And when a better guy than me comes around, she can try and make her move. I repeat, WHEN A BETTER GUY comes around. Good luck with that. Till now, none of my ex's have left of me, it was me who took the decision, and they all tried to get back together afterwards. The last one still calls me 2-3 times a week, after 6 months since we broke up. I know how to build a great relationship, from all its points of view, once I get it started, but I always sucked at starting it. And I know how relationship nowadays go around and function, and comparing to that, what I offer in a relationship is also pretty high quality stuff, regarding communication, understanding, warmth, life experience, honesty, friendship, common sense, looks, intelligence, education, sex and fun. If she might not be the one, this I'll see in time, but for now I see a lot of qualities in her and I want to give it a shot. It's not often that a girl like her comes around.

[InnerFire]

And another thing I noticed many times - a lot of girls try to play some kind of games not because they like it or whatever, some of them are not even good at them, but they try to play them because they met a lot of bastards till now, and they don't know who's the good guy and the bad guy anymore. I saw girls who behaved like a mean bitch, which was in total contradiction to other "hidden" traits of her character, actions, and other involuntary signs I saw. More than a few times I found scared and hurted innocent souls under the mask of a shrew. About her and her boyfriend - there can be a lot of reasons she's still looking - maybe he's a knucklehead and she got with him because she liked him once, now she's still staying because, well, it's better than alone, considering that anyway it's not a huge thing going on, with her having only 3 free hours a day. For now. There can be a lot of reasons.

Anyway, I'm gonna call her today, keep it funny and maybe drop some light hints, I know she knows I want more than her friendship. Somewhere between cool enough not scare her away and warm enough not to get friend zoned. Also, try to get some infos about her relationship, like since when they're together and all that.

What I'm not sure now is if should I try to already build the ground to a second date or not (like drive the discussion into movies, then at a point go "I really like Nicolas Cage too... hey, you know, there's "Dying Of The Light" playing this week, what do you say, we should go and see it, I've read some pretty good reviews"). Any advices on that ?

[GemmaUK]

Sounds to me like she was aware that you were waiting outside.

 

 

She probably told you she has a BF to put you off or is now making sure to mention him more to you and others so that it becomes common knowledge.

 

 

She is just being civil so as not to rock the boat if the above are both correct.

[InnerFire]

She probably told you she has a BF to put you off or is now making sure to mention him more to you and others so that it becomes common knowledge.

correct.

 

Very possible, but then again, still gave me her phone number...

[GemmaUK]

Very possible, but then again, still gave me her phone number...

 

 

 

Exactly!

 

 

Being civil!

 

 

If you were turning up in places you knew she would be at then she won't want to rock the boat as she won't know what you might be capable of.

 

 

Not responding to texts or calls is simple - but also traceable if it becomes a problem.

[InnerFire]

If you were turning up in places you knew she would be at then she won't want to rock the boat as she won't know what you might be capable of.

 

You do have a point. So, basically, you're saying she gave me her number somehow out of fear ? If that's the case, I suddenly feel I want to delete it. Won't delete it, but it's the first feeling I had when I thought about this, feels wrong obtaining a girl's number this way. But...still seems hard to believe. I waited for her in front of the place where we work, I work there too. If I would be a guy that could be capable of anything, I could have look for her home adress, for example, if they asked my home adress when they hired me, they must have asked hers too, and I can get access to that info. But I didn't even thought about it, at this point I don't know where she lives, I know she lives with that friend because she told me. I could have easily gotten her phone number the same way. If I think about it like this, there are a lot of things I could have done. And more, it's obvious for anyone that I'm an educated person, and all that. It's enough to look at me and talk to me for 5 mins. Being mistaken for a stalker sounds... I don't know, if I tell that to any person who knows me, the reaction would be "a stalker ? YOU ??? ".

But then, the same day I got her number, why did she told me where she studies ? I didn't ask her where she studies, the question was "what kind of courses are you taking ?" she could have simply said "marketing", but she also added the name of the university. Now, she knows I could easily look that up on the internet and find the adress. Or maybe she's trying to test me and see if I show up near that place ? If that's the case, she's already giving more thought to my "stalking" than I did. If she's actually scared of me, there's no point in continuing. But since when do the girls get so damn scared if a guy THEY SHOWED INTEREST FOR waits for them to talk ?

[GemmaUK]

What did she actually do or say to make you think she was interested?

 

 

You said in your first post there were obvious signs.

[InnerFire]

Well, throughout the whole dinner talked only to me, ignoring her friend which she's living together with, which was standing next to her. That girl tried to get her to talk to her too, she was kind of left out I guess, but got only short answers each time, every time she turned back to me and continued the conversation, if the topic was done, she immediately found another one, . When everybody else was done eating, we still weren't, spend more time talking than eating, and it wasn't me keeping the conversation all the time, it was more her. Asked me a lot of questions, more than you usually ask someone you just met 5 minutes ago - "you are young, how old are you ?" (usually my colleagues are past 35-40) "do you have brothers and sisters ?" "what you do in your spare time ?" "you've always been doing this job ?" "oh, how's it like working in a bar ?" "are you here alone ? how's that possible ?" "i smoke, do you smoke ?" "what plans do you have in the near future, you want to remain here ?" "really? I also think of leaving too, where do you think it would be best for us ?" (yes, she said "us") and went so personal as she told me "my parents have gone back to my country, and I chose to remain here. Anyway, considering that my father went around so much that now I have brothers I don't know anything about, I wouldn't be surprised to find you're my brother". And she didn't laugh after she said it. And this is only a part I remember now, if I think a bit more, I can come up with some more, but you got the idea. Imagine one hour in which we talked for 50 minutes and ate for 10 minutes. In those 50 minutes, I can't say that she did most of the talking, I'm not such a knucklehead to just lose my voice in front of a beautiful woman, but 70% it was her that came up with topics, asked questions, keeping it alive. I was answering, and also tried to do my part, I revived the conversation too a few times.She was smiling all the time, with all her attention focused on me, laughing at every joke I said, ignoring her friend who felt left out, and wasn't talking to anyone else at the table. I know what you're gonna say - THEN WHY THE HELL DIDN'T YOU GOT HER NUMBER RIGHT THEN, WAS SHE SUPPOSED TO WRITE ON ONE OF HER TITS "I LIKE YOU, STUPID" AND SMACK YOU OVER THE FACE WITH IT ? Because I was a stupid ****head, that's why. I wasn't expecting to meet a girl like that in there, all the women there are past their 40's, I got in the dinner hall and I was pretty baffled seeing her at the table, then I wasn't expecting to be seated right next to her, then I wasn't expecting that she will start talking to me, also wasn't expecting her to show that she likes me, and I was definitely not expecting the interrogation that followed. I wasn't prepared for all this, that day wasn't one of my best, I was tired and bored, wanted to get over with the damn dinner and go have a beer. Then I suddenly see her in there and I get brutally raised from the dead. Maybe that's why when we all went outside to smoke I just didn't engaged again in a conversation with her, I was like "wh..what the **** did just happened...". Then fast time forward and everything turns to ****. Man, I don't know what's gonna come out of this, and caring too much about what's gonna come won't change what's gonna come, but one thing I can say for sure - it's damn IRONICAL that every person that knows me, and we're talking about serious number, can guarantee that I'm a trusting and great person, only when I meet ONE GIRL that I really like (which doesn't happen often, I have some standards) it's exactly that girl, and only her, which comes to believe I'm a maniac.

Edited December 28, 2014 by InnerFire