Popsicle Posted December 24, 2014 Posted December 24, 2014 I have read of countless MM who feel guilt after being with the OW. This seems like a normal thing to feel to me. On the other hand, I have also seen a few here who feel no guilt whatsoever. A married friend I know personally who is in an A and confides in me told me that they feel no guilt at all either. My MM seems to feel no guilt at all, whereas I'm the one always expressing guilt and he tells me that I shouldn't feel that way. I don't understand this at all. How could you not feel any guilt? Does anyone else not feel any guilt?
FusionCutter Posted December 24, 2014 Posted December 24, 2014 I have read of countless MM who feel guilt after being with the OW. This seems like a normal thing to feel to me. On the other hand, I have also seen a few here who feel no guilt whatsoever. A married friend I know personally who is in an A and confides in me told me that they feel no guilt at all either. My MM seems to feel no guilt at all, whereas I'm the one always expressing guilt and he tells me that I shouldn't feel that way. I don't understand this at all. How could you not feel any guilt? Does anyone else not feel any guilt? It's sociopathic behavior to not feel any guilt. If you feel guilt, it's because you feel is something is not right. Listen to gut feelings and not your MM. Your MM is telling you not to feel guilt to manipulate you and keep you where you are, and/or to make you feel about good about your position, which is inherently a s***ty deal. This MM is not even worth your time. If he felt any guilt, he would try to make things right. Right? 1
Lightworker Posted December 24, 2014 Posted December 24, 2014 (edited) I think this depends on how selfish the person is feeling the "guilt". The selfisher the person, the less likely he/she will feel any guilt... thats my take of it ... The priority is like this: 1.ME 2.ME 3.ME 4.ME ... 10. YOU Edited December 24, 2014 by Lightworker
FusionCutter Posted December 24, 2014 Posted December 24, 2014 I think this depends on how selfish the person is feeling the "guilt". The selfisher the person, the less likely he/she will feel any guilt... thats my take of it ... It's more like the lack of empathy. Maybe they pretend to show empathy or say they care about other people's feelings. But obviously an objective look at the actions show otherwise. 1
Lady2163 Posted December 24, 2014 Posted December 24, 2014 My marriage was so awful that if I had found someone to have an affair with, I doubt I would have felt guilty. Technically, I did have affairs during all three times we were separated, but I felt bad for the two men I left to go back to the ex husband, not for him. All three times I was planning to divorce. My guess is in many instances those who don't feel guilty are being treated poorly. Okay, and then there are just some people who are dogs, whether they are male or female.
goodyblue Posted December 24, 2014 Posted December 24, 2014 I have read of countless MM who feel guilt after being with the OW. This seems like a normal thing to feel to me. On the other hand, I have also seen a few here who feel no guilt whatsoever. A married friend I know personally who is in an A and confides in me told me that they feel no guilt at all either. My MM seems to feel no guilt at all, whereas I'm the one always expressing guilt and he tells me that I shouldn't feel that way. I don't understand this at all. How could you not feel any guilt? Does anyone else not feel any guilt? Interesting question. Think he and I both felt justified in our actions during the affair and there wasn't much guilt. As time has gone on and we are further away from the affair, we see how much we hurt other people and that makes us feel bad. Not sure if it is guilt exactly but we definitely see our folly and would never do it again, nor want that'to happen to us.
gettingstronger Posted December 24, 2014 Posted December 24, 2014 The guilt tends to kick in after being caught- I asked my husband how he learned to live with the guilt while he was in his A and he said he just pushed it aside as in his mind he would never get caught, the A would just fizzle out and it would have just been something he did in his past-call it fog, call it selfishness, call it whatever but it sounds like an odd state of being- I am wondering if you feel guilt because the A is more important to you than it is to him- my husband said he could take it or leave it, he would take it as long as it was easy and did not interfere with our lives- our OW on the other hand wanted more and seemed to spend lots of time talking with him about how guilty she felt-
Author Popsicle Posted December 24, 2014 Author Posted December 24, 2014 (edited) It's sociopathic behavior to not feel any guilt. If you feel guilt, it's because you feel is something is not right. Listen to gut feelings and not your MM. Your MM is telling you not to feel guilt to manipulate you and keep you where you are, and/or to make you feel about good about your position, which is inherently a s***ty deal. This MM is not even worth your time. If he felt any guilt, he would try to make things right. Right? It doesn't make me not feel any guilt because he doesn't, or tells me not to. I'm just trying to understand how, and why he doesn't feel any guilt. He's married. My friend didn't feel guilt because she felt apathetic towards her husband, and missing that feeling and felt like she deserved this little slice of happiness. Edited December 24, 2014 by Popsicle
FusionCutter Posted December 24, 2014 Posted December 24, 2014 It doesn't make me not feel any guilt because he doesn't, or tells me not to. I'm just trying to understand how, and why he doesn't feel any guilt. He's married. My friend didn't feel guilt because she felt frustrated in her marriage and felt like she deserved this little slice of happiness. What do both situations have in common? Selfish-ness and self-entitlement at the expense of others. Geez, if you want to feel a slice of happiness, go buy a puppy, don't play with people's hearts and lie to everyones faces. OW/Wife, OM/Husband, whatever. 1
Sub Posted December 24, 2014 Posted December 24, 2014 My friend didn't feel guilt because she felt frustrated in her marriage and felt like she deserved this little slice of happiness. I was going to say something to this effect: entitlement. Mix it in with some good compartmentalization skills, and voila! 1
elaine567 Posted December 24, 2014 Posted December 24, 2014 It's sociopathic behavior to not feel any guilt. My guess is in many instances those who don't feel guilty are being treated poorly. I get the sociopaths - Profile of the Sociopath because so many traits they show, lead to cheating with no remorse. But I always thought that those in poor marriages, would feel very guilty, because some are just are looking for solace out of their marriage and are not really born cheaters as such, but I forgot cheating as some sort of revenge on the partner for the poor marriage. Guilt is not then going to be a part of it. Interesting
Scarlet2 Posted December 24, 2014 Posted December 24, 2014 I remember talking to my MM about my concern that he might feel guilty about cheating on his wife and he flat out said he doesn't feel guilt towards her at all. If MM feel any guilt at all, it's usually towards the OW. Guilt isn't always about right or wrong or who he cares the most about, it's usually about approval/disapproval. If the wife is oblivious that an affair is taking place and he's still giving her what she wants, she gives him approval therefore he doesn't feel any guilt. The OW on the other hand can't have what she wants and he starts to feel bad, disapproval causes the guilt. 3
Lady2163 Posted December 24, 2014 Posted December 24, 2014 I get the sociopaths - Profile of the Sociopath because so many traits they show, lead to cheating with no remorse. But I always thought that those in poor marriages, would feel very guilty, because some are just are looking for solace out of their marriage and are not really born cheaters as such, but I forgot cheating as some sort of revenge on the partner for the poor marriage. Guilt is not then going to be a part of it. Interesting I wouldn't have cheated out of revenge, I would have cheated to leave the marriage. My relationships/affairs when separated were both romances and love. I contacted both men when I did eventually divorce. I had apologized and been as standup as possible when I'd caved to pressure and gone back to the marriage. While they both had no hard feelings, we are friends without benefits, real friends today, they are happy in their marriages now. But, I also had a five year plan of getting out of the marriage. When he thre a tantrum and left that final time, I knew I wouldn't reconcile. So I was done, just not adding salt to the wound or drama to the situation. 1
Lady2163 Posted December 24, 2014 Posted December 24, 2014 I remember talking to my MM about my concern that he might feel guilty about cheating on his wife and he flat out said he doesn't feel guilt towards her at all. If MM feel any guilt at all, it's usually towards the OW. Guilt isn't always about right or wrong or who he cares the most about, it's usually about approval/disapproval. If the wife is oblivious that an affair is taking place and he's still giving her what she wants, she gives him approval therefore he doesn't feel any guilt. The OW on the other hand can't have what she wants and he starts to feel bad, disapproval causes the guilt. I really think that thought is on the target. Again - 1). Some people are just dogs 2). Some people are cowards 3). Some are unhappy or being mistreated in their marriage 4). Some are the few who are decent people, but temptation proves too much. The former MM I was with falls into the last category. Great career, great circle of friends, great reputation, leader and pillar in the community, ridiculously happy, healthy successful children, 99% compatible wife. It was just that 1% that did him in. Limited bedroom action. He did feel guilt. 1
goodyblue Posted December 24, 2014 Posted December 24, 2014 It's sociopathic behavior to not feel any guilt. If you feel guilt, it's because you feel is something is not right. Listen to gut feelings and not your MM. Your MM is telling you not to feel guilt to manipulate you and keep you where you are, and/or to make you feel about good about your position, which is inherently a s***ty deal. This MM is not even worth your time. If he felt any guilt, he would try to make things right. Right? Dear Lord. Drop the sociopathic behavior business. Everyone who doesn't feel guilt is not displaying sociopathic tendencies. They could feel guilty about all kinds of things, just not this thing. My guy didn't feel guilt because they had no intimacy, sexual or otherwise, for 12 years. She is an alcoholic mess and he wanted out. When our affair began he was planning his escape. The affair was wrong, but not necessarily something to feel guilt over considering the marriage was over and he was moving on. And he is not a sociopath. 1
Sub Posted December 24, 2014 Posted December 24, 2014 I think some people in these situations don't feel guilt because they're generally passive-aggressive. They like to play the martyr, long-suffering in their M's with "no choice" but to stay and build up enough resentment that the aforementioned entitlement kicks in. But at that point, lack of guilt isn't their biggest issue, IMO. 3
MissBee Posted December 24, 2014 Posted December 24, 2014 (edited) I have read of countless MM who feel guilt after being with the OW. This seems like a normal thing to feel to me. On the other hand, I have also seen a few here who feel no guilt whatsoever. A married friend I know personally who is in an A and confides in me told me that they feel no guilt at all either. My MM seems to feel no guilt at all, whereas I'm the one always expressing guilt and he tells me that I shouldn't feel that way. I don't understand this at all. How could you not feel any guilt? Does anyone else not feel any guilt? I felt similarly to you in my A and it bothered me. I felt a lot guiltier and bad about the situation than he seemed to. It made me lose a bit of respect for him because he said nothing was wrong with their relationship and he loved her and he also at the same time said he didn't feel guilty. I dunno if it was just a defense mechanism or he truly didn't. Actually, later on, much later, when the A was long over he said that for him he will always love me and anything with me transcends cheating and is in another box entirely... I didn't quite agree with that rationale. It was as if he was saying that even if he has a new gf or wife he can do stuff with me and it's not cheating because of how he feels...yea...no. But apparently that's how he views it hence the no guilt. I would have felt better if he felt guilty, as to this day he's never expressed ANY sort of feeling that cheating is not okay, and thus I doubt we could be together long term as that always weighed on me that this is just your regular viewpoint. I can more get with feeling As aren't okay and you did it and learned but his mentality seems to be that nothing is wrong with it at all...and that for me is not okay. Edited December 24, 2014 by MissBee 2
Author Popsicle Posted December 24, 2014 Author Posted December 24, 2014 I really think that thought is on the target. Again - 1). Some people are just dogs 2). Some people are cowards 3). Some are unhappy or being mistreated in their marriage 4). Some are the few who are decent people, but temptation proves too much. The former MM I was with falls into the last category. Great career, great circle of friends, great reputation, leader and pillar in the community, ridiculously happy, healthy successful children, 99% compatible wife. It was just that 1% that did him in. Limited bedroom action. He did feel guilt. Interesting. This does seem not so simple.
Lady2163 Posted December 24, 2014 Posted December 24, 2014 Interesting. This does seem not so simple. It is greatly oversimplified. Obviously, I have no scientific proof, but I will bet more than 75% of affairs fall into those categories. Each situation is different. I didn't even think to include those with spouses who have illness. I have a close friend whose wife just had a fluke thing happen and at age 42 was pretty much a vegetable and in a nursing home. He has a longtime girlfriend and his wife's family invites her for the holidays. He is still devoted to his wife, but was fortunate that his kids and wife's family didn't want him to be alone.
SoleMate Posted December 24, 2014 Posted December 24, 2014 "Sociopathy or antisocial personality disorder is defined as mental health condition in which a person has a long-term pattern of manipulating, exploiting, or violating the rights of others." To say that all cheaters are sociopaths is an obvious untrue overstatement. If the A is a one-time or short-term event, or if the cheater only manipulates and exploits the spouse but no one else, then the cheater may not meet the definition of sociopath. However, it's clear that there is some correlation between cheating and sociopathy. It's just not 1.00.....probably more like 0.3 or 0.4 would be my guess. Sociopath Traits | MD-Health.com
nikki76 Posted December 24, 2014 Posted December 24, 2014 I guess I am a sociopath, because I never felt guilty toward my H. I thought that to be so strange and I would feel bad for not feeling guilty. Now that I am in NC mode , ive had a chance to step back and look at the situation and it makes me sick, the things i did. Almost like I was having an out of body experience. I'm sure many will chime in and analyze that lol, but whats done is done. Now i just have to learn from this horrible experience. 1
Be_Strong Posted December 24, 2014 Posted December 24, 2014 I never felt guilty toward my H. A person feels guilt when they act in a way that is contrary to their own set of morals and their belief system. It's not a feeling that is directed at another person, but at yourself. In essence, guilt is a byproduct of a person violating themselves. A closely related feeling is empathy. Empathy, unlike guilt is directed at others. If you feel bad for the unfortunate circumstances of another, you are feeling empathy. An example to show the distinction between empathy and guilt is the following: Imagine you are in a championship tennis match and on match point you hit a great serve and win the match. You may subsequently feel empathy for your opponent when you see how upset they are at losing, but you feel no guilt because you didn't do anything wrong. Now imagine that you paid the referee a bribe before the start of the match, and you obtain rulings in your favor that allow you to win the match. You know it was wrong to cheat so you feel guilty in addition to empathy towards your opponent. If you don't feel guilty about a particular course of conduct such as cheating, it is because of one of two possible reasons. One, you have no moral objection to cheating, or two, you have been able to suppress the feelings of guilt. Notably, one of the most effective ways to achieve number two is to convince your mind that number one applies. It's hard to fool the mind forever, though, so eventually those guilty feelings will show up if there's not a true lack of moral objection. More concerning are people who truly have no guilty conscience about acting in a way that society generally recognizes as wrongful. If I was an OW with a MM that had no guilt about cheating, I would be seriously concerned about any future with MM. Because if he doesn't have any moral objection to cheating, the only thing keeping you from being his next victim is circumstance and opportunity. And it is unusual for a person to have a moral vacuum limited to just cheating--it usually spills over into all aspects of their life. It can be summed up as others have mentioned into an entitlement complex--if it makes them happy and its what they want to do then it's ok to do. Never trust a person with an "honor amongst thieves" mentality. You either have integrity or you don't. Many OW/OM like to persuade themselves that there's honesty between themselves and their partner in crime even though they know their partner is not honest with others. But they're playing with fire. 1
carhill Posted December 24, 2014 Posted December 24, 2014 My MM seems to feel no guilt at all, whereas I'm the one always expressing guilt and he tells me that I shouldn't feel that way. I don't understand this at all. How could you not feel any guilt? Does anyone else not feel any guilt? It's essentially impossible to truly know how another person feels since we can't read minds. One can express anything but their true feelings are unknown. They could be authentic or ersatz (fake). My exW called it 'masking'. In my case, my guilt happened prior, during the process of reconciling the interactions between my exW and myself. Once I made the choice to move, about all that was left was anger over the abandonment. I expressed all that stuff along the way, prior to the A, but again that's simply expression and she had no way of knowing whether it was authentic or a mask. After she met my affair partner and interacted with her, I think she got the memo that I was serious. Since all men are different, necessarily their feelings surround marital and infidelity issues will be different. Some feel great guilt, sorrow, anger, joy; some feel nothing. Each man processes their feelings uniquely and expresses them uniquely and there's no consistent way I've found to analyze or predict any particular path or pattern. I think my exW learned that lesson with me, the always committed guy with every relationship in his life who ended up purposely and with malice and aforethought having an affair at nearly age 50. Today we get along fine with no expressed animosity or disrespect. We hashed it all out in MC and moved on. 1
elaine567 Posted December 24, 2014 Posted December 24, 2014 I wouldn't have cheated out of revenge, I would have cheated to leave the marriage. I wasn't really pointing my comment at your situation per se. But just that I realised from your comment, that I am sure some people in unhappy marriages do not feel guilt re cheating, because they believe their partner "deserves" to be hurt, and cheating definitely is a surefire way of hurting someone badly.
elaine567 Posted December 24, 2014 Posted December 24, 2014 I guess I am a sociopath, because I never felt guilty toward my H. I thought that to be so strange and I would feel bad for not feeling guilty. Now that I am in NC mode , ive had a chance to step back and look at the situation and it makes me sick, the things i did. Almost like I was having an out of body experience. I'm sure many will chime in and analyze that lol, but whats done is done. Now i just have to learn from this horrible experience. I guess you managed at the time, to totally compartmentalise both activities ie the A and your marriage. So your husband and marriage had nothing to do with the A, and the A had nothing to do with your husband and the marriage, they were in your mind separate entities, maybe?
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