Third time a charm?

[Selfish]

OP,

 

Personally, I don't think with children involved you should use Christmas as an opportunity to punish her. Think of your children. If you can muster up the strength and courage to go through Christmas do. And whatever you do don't make a scene in front of your kids over the holidays. Be the mature adult. focus on their joy and happiness.

 

However, I think you really have only two options. Stay with this woman and accept she will cheat. She is incapable of being monogamous. So basically adopt a do and don't tell or an open marriage. I don't think those usually work when born out of infidelity and betrayal as they require so much trust and communication. which you guys have neither. But it is still an option and you seem very codependent on her. Unhealthy attachment that others have pointed out.

 

The other option is you solidify yourself and let her know ASAP that after the holidays the marriage is over. And see a lawyer. I think taking action to end the marriage will help you stay strong over the holidays for your children.

 

I wouldn't take back any gifts or make a show of excluding her. If she knows that this is it, then everything will just be a painful reminder to her of what she lost. And it will keep things more normal for the kids. *hurting* her will just hurt them. Just like she hurt them when she hurt you.

 

I only suggest these things because you have children to think of. And the less huge family drama they see, the better for them. And some of the advice given is not given with the children in mind and will just create needless drama.

[petee]

Nobody likes hard truths. You are a victim here, and you alsways will be unless you take control of your life.

 

Girls tend to walk all over the nice blokes. You are part of what makes up this unofficial rule. I could try to elicit the answers from you, but in actual fact I may as well just state the answers.

 

1. Grow a pair, if you want to enter your wife and find the remnants of the other man then stay.

2. Imagine your favourite sexual trick - he's had more and better from her. He's been dirty with her.

3. You are a great comfort blanket, she's done it twice, had two different men inside her and shoot there.

 

Hard truths, but so what if it is Xmas. Get rid of her today, or she'll work on your chemicals and eventually do it again. Maybe in the summer when it's not so cold out.

Be very supportive of the children, but get yourself together, you are the doormat that every other bloke just scoffs at right now. You can change things, and fairly quickly - if YOU want to. Otherwise the images of her performing for multiple other men, allowing her to be intruded will one day cost your mental health.

In the mean time, if I were you I'd consider rubbing her nose in it as soon as possible, a friend with benefits.

 

Your choice, but you come across as sincere as a good bloke, it's just your norm is suspect as most do not entertain sticky seconds once, let alone twice.

[oldshirt]

Legally, that's not the way it typically works, as unfortunate as it may sound.

 

There needs to be a legal agreement in place, before either of them makes any move.

 

Sure, so follow the legal agreement and do what is mandated. My point is don't shell out one extra cent and don't do anything to make her cheating life one bit easier.

 

Do what the court orders you to do but don't do one more thing for her.

[Trotters]

What do we class as an "affair"?. Is sex once classed as an affair?

[Buckeye2]

She says she loves me and can't imagine her life without me and she was stupid and doesn't want to lose me.

 

She’s telling the truth about this. You’re her father figure and the OM is the exciting bad boy who her father doesn’t approve of. That and sneaking around make the OM even more exciting.

 

She says there were only 3 sexual encounters over that period but I don't buy that.

 

For her to expect you to believe this is insulting.

 

How in the world did you find out?

 

I know you love both of her children with all your heart. I would be tempted to DNA your youngest. You wouldn’t be testing your kid, you would be demonstrating to your wife the extent to which she has lost your trust.

 

Buy a kit at WalMart, Amazon or about any drug store for about $30. Swab the inside of your cheek and the kids with a Q-tip. Mail it off with $130 more to a lab.

[thummper]

Thank you everyone for the advice and support - a lot of mixed thoughts on what to do and how to handle it. As selfish as I want to be to take Christmas away from her, I can't do this to my kids or my family. We have smaller family get together Saturday with the other side of my family which I am not bringing her to and will explain to my family before then.

 

 

I completely agree that her motives right now are being driven by fear and desperation. Her answer as to the "why" is I don't know...this is what I think kills me inside. Was she looking for a way out? Was she looking for some fun? What was her motive for this?

 

 

I've told her I will help her get a place of her own for February 01 and will split the home furnishings equally - I'll split by 2 and she can choose which half she wants and I'll take the alternate. Financially I will not be able to get her out sooner. As much as she cries and begs for "us" not to end, I'm holding firm to this decision.

 

 

Thanks again everyone for your support and insights. It is truly appreciated.

 

That's always their answer: "*sob* I just don't know why I did it!" Bull*****! They know exactly why they did it; they just don't want to tell you for fear you'll show them the door. I hope that you can work this out causing the least upset to your family. Your stbx seems to desperately need validation from these other men. I'm afraid that would never change.

[Realist3]

OP,

 

Personally, I don't think with children involved you should use Christmas as an opportunity to punish her. Think of your children. If you can muster up the strength and courage to go through Christmas do. And whatever you do don't make a scene in front of your kids over the holidays. Be the mature adult. focus on their joy and happiness.

 

However, I think you really have only two options. Stay with this woman and accept she will cheat. She is incapable of being monogamous. So basically adopt a do and don't tell or an open marriage. I don't think those usually work when born out of infidelity and betrayal as they require so much trust and communication. which you guys have neither. But it is still an option and you seem very codependent on her. Unhealthy attachment that others have pointed out.

 

The other option is you solidify yourself and let her know ASAP that after the holidays the marriage is over. And see a lawyer. I think taking action to end the marriage will help you stay strong over the holidays for your children.

 

I wouldn't take back any gifts or make a show of excluding her. If she knows that this is it, then everything will just be a painful reminder to her of what she lost. And it will keep things more normal for the kids. *hurting* her will just hurt them. Just like she hurt them when she hurt you.

 

I only suggest these things because you have children to think of. And the less huge family drama they see, the better for them. And some of the advice given is not given with the children in mind and will just create needless drama.

 

 

I agree with this approach. If you do anything before or during the holiday it will forever spoil it for your children. Just let her know she better enjoy it because this is the last one. She has been having a 2.5 year affair, what is another week? Nothing really in the grand scheme. Don't exclude her. After the holidays get lawyered up and explore your options.

 

I've told her I will help her get a place of her own for February 01 and will split the home furnishings equally - I'll split by 2 and she can choose which half she wants and I'll take the alternate. Financially I will not be able to get her out sooner. As much as she cries and begs for "us" not to end, I'm holding firm to this decision.

 

To be perfectly frank, that is a terrible decision. You are still placing her on a pedestal, which as others have noted probably contributed to her viewing you as a the lessor in the relationship.

 

No more Mr. Nice Guy. She gets to foot the bill for the problems she caused. If you want to divide things up fine, but YOU get first choice. You have to finally show some spine. I know you love her, but she does not love you, no matter how much she cries. The only thing she is sorry for is that she got caught, don't ever believe otherwise.

 

 

No third chances. You can put all the lipstick you want on a pig, but it still a pig.

[aliveagain]

First, don't believe her B/S that it only happened three times. Second, she didn't think much about ruining your Christmas's, her affair lasted through 3 of them before you found out. Expose the other man to his wife, ruin his Christmas, why should he enjoy his when yours is trashed. I would bet that your S/O has already told him you know and both of them are doing damage control.

 

The one thing you need to consider about a long term affair, it takes a lot of planning to pull it off, planning they did together against you and his wife. Talk to a lawyer, protect your children, separate your finances immediately, I can tell you first hand what it feels like to do a withdrawal when all your money has been taken out without your knowledge. My guess is she never got counselling for her last affair? Get tested for STD's, no unprotected sex, last thing you need is an unwanted pregnancy to hold you in the marriage. This girl is very damaged, very poor spouse material.

[Selfish]

First, don't believe her B/S that it only happened three times. Second, she didn't think much about ruining your Christmas's, her affair lasted through 3 of them before you found out. Expose the other man to his wife, ruin his Christmas, why should he enjoy his when yours is trashed. I would bet that your S/O has already told him you know and both of them are doing damage control.

 

The problem with this advice is: You are playing a tit for tat game and thinking it is about HER Christmas. But there are children involved first and most important. Creating a scene or "ruining" her Christmas will directly ruin the kid's. He shouldn't wait until Christmas passes for her. And he should stop worrying about how she feels. Let her squirm over Christmas. But he needs to think of the kids first.

 

IT is going to destroy them. But them splitting after Christmas is a hell of a lot better for them then Christmas being destroyed and possibly filled with family drama. It will hurt them in the end her actions. But the selfless thing for their sake for him to do is wait until after. Avoid the extra drama "punishing" her over Christmas would bring.

[jbrent890]

The problem with this advice is: You are playing a tit for tat game and thinking it is about HER Christmas. But there are children involved first and most important. Creating a scene or "ruining" her Christmas will directly ruin the kid's. He shouldn't wait until Christmas passes for her. And he should stop worrying about how she feels. Let her squirm over Christmas. But he needs to think of the kids first.

 

IT is going to destroy them. But them splitting after Christmas is a hell of a lot better for them then Christmas being destroyed and possibly filled with family drama. It will hurt them in the end her actions. But the selfless thing for their sake for him to do is wait until after. Avoid the extra drama "punishing" her over Christmas would bring.

 

I whole heartedly agree with this. Just because the WW didn't think about the kids by having her affair, doesn't mean the BH shouldn't. Drown it out for a couple of more weeks, then dump her after the new year. This woman has serious problems and needs help. However, there is a time and place and now is not it.

[aliveagain]

First, don't believe her B/S that it only happened three times. Second, she didn't think much about ruining your Christmas's, her affair lasted through 3 of them before you found out. Expose the other man to his wife, ruin his Christmas, why should he enjoy his when yours is trashed. I would bet that your S/O has already told him you know and both of them are doing damage control.

 

The one thing you need to consider about a long term affair, it takes a lot of planning to pull it off, planning they did together against you and his wife. Talk to a lawyer, protect your children, separate your finances immediately, I can tell you first hand what it feels like to do a withdrawal when all your money has been taken out without your knowledge. My guess is she never got counselling for her last affair? Get tested for STD's, no unprotected sex, last thing you need is an unwanted pregnancy to hold you in the marriage. This girl is very damaged, very poor spouse material.

 

Sorry for not being clearer, holding of until after Christmas is the right thing to do with your situation. Exposing the O/M, do it now, respect him as much as he respected you.

[Furious]

This whole thread makes me sad. How sad that preserving a holiday, preserving "the happy family image", is forefront in not damaging the children. It's so fake, and kids are more aware than "adults" assume and if anything it's what screws them up more than the truth.

 

Kids are more aware of what's happening. They listen, they can see with their own eyes that Dad is not himself and Mom is not herself. Most often kids cannot verbalize it and often internalize their worries and fears. It's a harsh wound when children realize that their security is threatened and that their lives will change and most likely not for the better. They have friends from divorced parents who are shuffled back and forth from place to place and money is tighter now.

 

They know, it will be a fake Christmas.

[Realist3]

This whole thread makes me sad. How sad that preserving a holiday, preserving "the happy family image", is forefront in not damaging the children. It's so fake, and kids are more aware than "adults" assume and if anything it's what screws them up more than the truth.

 

Kids are more aware of what's happening. They listen, they can see with their own eyes that Dad is not himself and Mom is not herself. Most often kids cannot verbalize it and often internalize their worries and fears. It's a harsh wound when children realize that their security is threatened and that their lives will change and most likely not for the better. They have friends from divorced parents who are shuffled back and forth from place to place and money is tighter now.

 

They know, it will be a fake Christmas.

 

What if any compelling case can you make that them knowing today instead of next Monday or after the new year is important to their overall well being, because so far the one you posed does not.

[Furious]

What if any compelling case can you make that them knowing today instead of next Monday or after the new year is important to their overall well being, because so far the one you posed does not.

 

 

I guess it went over your head.

[Realist3]

Oh no, I got what you were trying to say, but it did not in any way speak to the need for immediacy of the action you are suggesting.

 

You are suggesting that by some possible chance they might see mom and dad upset, and instead you are advocating full out destruction, knowing full well the outcome.

Edited December 22, 2014 by Realist3

[Furious]

Oh no, I got what you were trying to say, but it did not in any way speak to the need for immediacy of the action you are suggesting.

 

You are suggesting that by some possible chance they might see mom and dad upset, and instead you are advocating full out destruction, knowing full well the outcome.

 

I did not advocate full out destruction and do not put words in my mouth.

 

I believe the kids, which are 18 and 12 are most likely very aware that all is not good with their parents. That most likely they've overheard things and have put two and two together.

 

Children as young as five sense that there's something off about daddy's friend.

 

To assume children are not more aware of and pick up on things in their own family is to be naive.

[Selfish]

Oh no, I got what you were trying to say, but it did not in any way speak to the need for immediacy of the action you are suggesting.

 

You are suggesting that by some possible chance they might see mom and dad upset, and instead you are advocating full out destruction, knowing full well the outcome.

 

^This

 

Young teens and children can often pick up moods (not always though) but they aren't mind readers. They may know something is off but that is nothing compared to the drama and upset exposing now and punishing the mother over Christmas would entail.

 

An adult perspective might see this Christmas as "fake". BUt they will be having real joy and real fun with friends, cousins and their parents. They will have real love from both parents. There is no need to turn Christmas upside down. Many, many bs have waited on informing the kids about infidelity anyways. This is one of those times where the benefits of waiting a few days outweigh whatever benefit those that think he should nuke Christmas see.

 

it's keeping the drama down. Something all BS should consider when kids are involved. maybe it doesn't seem fair to have to be the one to "think of the kids". But just because she didn't with her second little fling... doesn't mean he should feel like he doesn't have to either.

[Selfish]

I did not advocate full out destruction and do not put words in my mouth.

 

I believe the kids, which are 18 and 12 are most likely very aware that all is not good with their parents. That most likely they've overheard things and have put two and two together.

 

Children as young as five sense that there's something off about daddy's friend.

 

To assume children are not more aware of and pick up on things in their own family is to be naive.

 

A highly doubt a 12 year old knows that. and as far as 18 goes if you remember it is HER mom that cheated not her step dad. She may suspect something is up. But suspecting something and having their Christmas blown apart for some need to avoid a "fake" Christmas are two different things.

 

Suicide rates are high over the holidays because the holidays are charged with extra emotions and expectations. While this affair will hit the children hard. And that is the consequence of her actions. telling them before Christmas or over Christmas will raise the emotions involved ten fold.

 

like I said, lots of BS wait before telling the kids. What is so wrong about doing it for the extra reason of a holiday.

[Furious]

A highly doubt a 12 year old knows that. and as far as 18 goes if you remember it is HER mom that cheated not her step dad. She may suspect something is up. But suspecting something and having their Christmas blown apart for some need to avoid a "fake" Christmas are two different things.

 

Suicide rates are high over the holidays because the holidays are charged with extra emotions and expectations. While this affair will hit the children hard. And that is the consequence of her actions. telling them before Christmas or over Christmas will raise the emotions involved ten fold.

 

like I said, lots of BS wait before telling the kids. What is so wrong about doing it for the extra reason of a holiday.

 

 

You assume wrongly, I did not advocate to cancel Christmas or imply at all that that the kids be given the bomb about their mother.

 

I simply, stated that kids are more perceptive than adults would wish to believe and to assume otherwise is to be naive.

 

The kids will play along with the happy Christmas, as most kids who live with dysfunction will do. It's security and fear based and it will leave scars. sometimes the greatest lesson parents teach kids is how to give greater credit to illusion rather than reality.

[Selfish]

You assume wrongly, I did not advocate to cancel Christmas or imply at all that that the kids be given the bomb about their mother.

 

I simply, stated that kids are more perceptive than adults would wish to believe and to assume otherwise is to be naive.

 

The kids will play along with the happy Christmas, as most kids who live with dysfunction will do. It's security and fear based and it will leave scars. sometimes the greatest lesson parents teach kids is how to give greater credit to illusion rather than reality.

 

Actually you did imply that

 

This whole thread makes me sad. How sad that preserving a holiday, preserving "the happy family image", is forefront in not damaging the children. It's so fake, and kids are more aware than "adults" assume and if anything it's what screws them up more than the truth.

 

Kids are more aware of what's happening. They listen, they can see with their own eyes that Dad is not himself and Mom is not herself. Most often kids cannot verbalize it and often internalize their worries and fears. It's a harsh wound when children realize that their security is threatened and that their lives will change and most likely not for the better. They have friends from divorced parents who are shuffled back and forth from place to place and money is tighter now.

 

They know, it will be a fake Christmas.

 

What was the point of this post then?

 

You make a lot of your own assumptions. Some children and young people are very aware that is true. But some are not. And for all we know they may just thing their parents had a normal tiff. They know nothing more than that. And in all the excitement of seeing family and holiday things it is as likely that they won't feel the holidays are forced as they will. But him dropping the A bomb during the holidays will ensure they do know.

 

Even the end of your first post above implies that him NOT telling the kids is wrong. Like I said. The love he feels for his kids. The love his family feel for him and yes, even the love his wife has for the kids is real. It isn't fake and therefore only the jaded would see it as so.

 

What i find sad in this thread is that the kids are the Innocent victims here. Victims of their mom's selfish and cruel actions against her husband when she chose to have a second affair after she got the gift of reconciliation. and victims of their dad's extreme worshiping of their mother and co dependency on her. I don't find it sad that people are encouraging him to take a deep breath, allow the family to have one last Christmas together with no punishments and ostersizing, and then take firm action afterwards.

[Furious]

Actually you did imply that

 

 

 

What was the point of this post then?

 

You make a lot of your own assumptions. Some children and young people are very aware that is true. But some are not. And for all we know they may just thing their parents had a normal tiff. They know nothing more than that. And in all the excitement of seeing family and holiday things it is as likely that they won't feel the holidays are forced as they will. But him dropping the A bomb during the holidays will ensure they do know.

 

Even the end of your first post above implies that him NOT telling the kids is wrong. Like I said. The love he feels for his kids. The love his family feel for him and yes, even the love his wife has for the kids is real. It isn't fake and therefore only the jaded would see it as so.

 

What i find sad in this thread is that the kids are the Innocent victims here. Victims of their mom's selfish and cruel actions against her husband when she chose to have a second affair after she got the gift of reconciliation. and victims of their dad's extreme worshiping of their mother and co dependency on her. I don't find it sad that people are encouraging him to take a deep breath, allow the family to have one last Christmas together with no punishments and ostersizing, and then take firm action afterwards.

 

 

You're getting carried away, inferring punishment, even as far as mentioning suicide in your previous post and getting riled up over the simple fact that kids are more observant and aware than their parents wish to admit.

 

Please do not put words in my mouth and assume more than what I simply said.

[Selfish]

You're getting carried away, inferring punishment, even as far as mentioning suicide in your previous post and getting riled up over the simple fact that kids are more observant and aware than their parents wish to admit.

 

Please do not put words in my mouth and assume more than what I simply said.

 

Where have I assumed more than you said? I quoted you?

 

I mentioned suicide not to say it won't happen but to show how Christmas is a more emotionally charged time of year. It is unrelated to this post except as an example? Now who is reading in too much.

 

You know no more about how observant these kids are about this holiday than I know they aren't.

 

*I am no more riled up than you appear to be. I am merely offering a different point of view from you and discussing how I don't agree with you. Are you riled up?

 

Everyone who said to try keep it under their hat because of Christmas were in reply to people who were trying to get the OP to ruin her Christmas. Talking about her "one gift". Leaving her home alone.

 

And you found that advice sad. therefore you imply he SHOULD tell.

 

unless you don't think he should tell and you are simply being difficult for the sake of being difficult.

[road]

What do we class as an "affair"?. Is sex once classed as an affair?

 

First never ask Bill Clinton what is an affair.

 

 

Any physical activity that you would not want your spouse to know about is cheating.

 

 

Though there are not just PA's there are EA's as well.

[Clay]

OP, Your right don't do anything until after Christmas.

 

My kids already suffered this fate years ago and there mom. There mother recently is screwing with them again and ofcourse right at Christmas time. (The xxtch must have it set on a timer). She left the OM to be with a new OM. She then left town two days again and never said good bye to them. They are both feeling the affects of Christmas being ruined all over again.

 

Once the holidays are over with kick her to the curb and never look back.

 

Clay

[Furious]

Where have I assumed more than you said? I quoted you?

 

I mentioned suicide not to say it won't happen but to show how Christmas is a more emotionally charged time of year. It is unrelated to this post except as an example? Now who is reading in too much.

 

You know no more about how observant these kids are about this holiday than I know they aren't.

 

*I am no more riled up than you appear to be. I am merely offering a different point of view from you and discussing how I don't agree with you. Are you riled up?

 

Everyone who said to try keep it under their hat because of Christmas were in reply to people who were trying to get the OP to ruin her Christmas. Talking about her "one gift". Leaving her home alone.

 

And you found that advice sad. therefore you imply he SHOULD tell.

 

unless you don't think he should tell and you are simply being difficult for the sake of being difficult.

 

Once again, you assume too much and are being quite melodramatic and inferring much too much.

 

And yes, it is sad and a very sad situation for OP and his children, and it's highly possible the kids are more aware of what's going on.

 

If anything I encourage the OP to talk to his kids, he might be surprised that they want to talk but are too worried to say anything.