Bad night

[BetrayedH]

I don't deserve it...

 

Screw this line of thinking. Shame no longer serves a purpose. Like paying off a debt, you're going to earn your self-pride back. It's done in small steps. Keep making one decision after another of which you can be proud. You can be proud of coming clean. You can be proud of the sacrifice you made in quitting that job. You can be proud of your transparency and efforts to right your wrongs.

 

Keep going and you'll be proud to say that you deserve the great marriage you got as a result.

[BetrayedH]

We starting seeing an MC and at the time, he was talking to me, at me, for hours and hours every day. Every time he had a bad moment, we discussed it. Every time he had a good moment, we discussed it. He would call me and say, I think I'm at a turning point...I feel better. And then 2 hours later, he would be irate about something else. I could only sit there and listen, listen, listen. The MC suggested that at a certain point, this is counterproductive. Especially the amount he would bring up exMM...the constant rehashing of moments. She said that as long as the truth was on the table, we should stop discussing him. That HE had no part in our present relationship. And she suggested that he not share every single emotion with me. But he took that a little too far and stopped saying anything at all. I told him yesterday that I could tell he was suffering but not saying anything, and that I wanted to be able to help him. Then he unloaded...

 

Yeah. I respectfully disagree with your MC. See how that worked out? Resentment does NOT go away and it WILL come out. It has to be resolved or it just festers and comes out in a much less controlled fashion than if it had just been dealt with earlier. For him, it built up until he just felt disgusted. Screw that.

 

My $.02 anyway. I say you make it clear to him that you're going thru it together and to hell with the counselor if she doesn't like it.

[aliveagain]

The anger phase, we all hit it once we got over the fear of loss and the fear of the unknown. He is trying to make sense out of what you did and is discovering that not only does it not make sense but he can't control your actions. When I was a young man in my 20's I married the love of my life or so I thought. One of the greatest emotions I remember feeling at the time was the knowledge/sense of relief that there would now be someone I could always trust to have my back. I wouldn't have to make all these adult decisions by myself. Your husband just discovered that in the darkest moment of his life he's alone and the person he trusted above all is the one pulling the trigger. He doesn't feel safe and your challenge is to overcome that.

 

This phase doesn't last forever but it is a very crucial time for your relationship, consider it a test. You will take it and prove to him you really do love him and he's not your back up plan(kind of his way of getting his pound of flesh), or you will break and prove that he was right, that you left the marriage a long time ago. He is showing you his pain, heart felt "I am so sorry" works and so do long quiet hugs. He is looking for proof that the cheater is gone and the woman he married is back. He is looking for action signs because he still can't trust any promises you make verbally. If he can't get over the trust issue your marriage will not survive. If it all comes down to the issue of trust and you really want the marriage consider offering him a post nuptial agreement.

[OverIt75]

Know what I would want to hear?

 

I would want to hear that it just means that you f*cked up, that you took your husband and marriage for granted, that you are so sorry for it, that it's NEVER going to happen again, and that you're so thankful for the second chance.

 

If you can say that and mean it, you will land this man. Then you set out to make him the happiest husband on Earth.

 

That's what it means to your marriage.

 

Thank you...

 

I sincerely believe that IS what happened. I did not initiate the A, I wanted out of the A (even when I was wrapped up in it) and I did not know myself in the A. I have shared all of this with him. I think he's just looking for something we can fix. Like, if the problem was he didn't keep himself in shape, or I am bipolar, or something...anything...we can deal with that. He could get into shape, I could get on meds. But none of that is true.

 

I do think we were missing something...maybe gotten complacent, long-term issues just kind of overlooked. But overall we were good. I just f'd up and I don't want to go back.

[OverIt75]

I've responded in bold within...

 

Just a story.

 

I had a very smooth recovery that I put in another thread. Not much drama and my husband never went off the deep end. But, he did say hurtful things from time to time. And honestly, it did not send me in the spiral this is seeming to send you. So gently, are you still focusing too much on yourself right now? Because you being "disgusting" was not a clear story of what happened. Did he call you that? or just act like he found you that way. Or did he say "you disgust me". Because without the whole story it is hard to know if you are being melodramatic or not. And this is meant kindly. remember, I am a fws that very few BS agree with...

 

He actually said that..."I am disgusted by you. Disgusted." That led to this big emotional 'fest' last night. I don't tend towards melodrama...

 

so after that tangent the story.

 

my husband made a comment out of the blue one day. He told me "oh you mean last year when you were whoring around"...

 

that was like a sucker punch to me and before I could help it a few tears sprung to my eyes and I had to leave the room as not to cry in front of him. To many BS it woudn't matter what word he used but to the WS it made the world of difference. to me his words meant I was out banging every dude I could. He did apologize to me. And i apologized again for doing what I did. But the whole thing made me realize that the anger over my actions didn't just go away. Or the pain. He was just sorting through it on his own. After that I reacted much better when something was said. I made his comments less about me and more about his pain.

 

Thank you...I will remember this.

[OverIt75]

Yeah. I respectfully disagree with your MC. See how that worked out? Resentment does NOT go away and it WILL come out. It has to be resolved or it just festers and comes out in a much less controlled fashion than if it had just been dealt with earlier. For him, it built up until he just felt disgusted. Screw that.

 

My $.02 anyway. I say you make it clear to him that you're going thru it together and to hell with the counselor if she doesn't like it.

 

We discussed that he had definitely taken the advice too far! I think there is something to not dragging exMM into the conversation all the time. It just keeps him 'there', between us, and neither of us wants that. But he most certainly should be able to tell me how he's thinking/feeling, so that I can support him through it.

[aliveagain]

We discussed that he had definitely taken the advice too far! I think there is something to not dragging exMM into the conversation all the time. It just keeps him 'there', between us, and neither of us wants that. But he most certainly should be able to tell me how he's thinking/feeling, so that I can support him through it.

 

This, get rid of the third person in your relationship, one of them is going one way or the other. It would be better for you if you were able to decide who(your husband just wants to know if you can love him again because he has doubts).

[BetrayedH]

Thank you...

 

I sincerely believe that IS what happened. I did not initiate the A, I wanted out of the A (even when I was wrapped up in it) and I did not know myself in the A. I have shared all of this with him. I think he's just looking for something we can fix. Like, if the problem was he didn't keep himself in shape, or I am bipolar, or something...anything...we can deal with that. He could get into shape, I could get on meds. But none of that is true.

 

I do think we were missing something...maybe gotten complacent, long-term issues just kind of overlooked. But overall we were good. I just f'd up and I don't want to go back.

 

His reaction is pretty normal. Generally, men are fixers. We'll blameshift the affair onto ourselves if that will allow us to fix it. It really has taken me not months but years to accept that the affair really wasn't about me (or the OM, for that matter). It was about my wife, that she wanted it all and went for it. But back in the early days, I focused on personal grooming, working out, quitting smoking, exuding confidence (when I had none), being dominant in the bedroom, etc..

 

I think you're best suited treating MC as a safe environment for both of you to communicate but avoid it as a placr to dissect the marriage as if that was the problem.

 

Was your marriage perfect? Of course not. Was something missing? Sure. Is there a marriage where this doesn't happen? The chemical rush fades. We become accustomed to one another. You've shared pretty much everything there is to know about one another and it's just not as fascinating as it used to be. If that's what you need in life, be prepared for a lifetime of 2-3 year relationships. Should we allow ourselves to be complacent in marriage? Of course not. But let's not pretend that it caused the affair or that solving it is somehow the key to affair-proofing the marriage.

 

I sense that I'm preaching to the choir here. I think the trick is going to be convincing your H.

 

Side note: I'm hoping you're in IC. If not, you'd be sending the message that the affair was a marital problem rather than a personal one.

[badkarma2013]

We discussed that he had definitely taken the advice too far! I think there is something to not dragging exMM into the conversation all the time. It just keeps him 'there', between us, and neither of us wants that. But he most certainly should be able to tell me how he's thinking/feeling, so that I can support him through it.

 

You being supportive is a must and this will be a long hard road..

 

As a BH You must understand the xMM is with him a in his thoughts 24 hrs a day 7 days a week...HE HAS TO say something...He will most likely REHASH details over and over until he is sure That what you have said is really what happened ....ANY LIE OR DEVIATION from what you have said will set him back MONTHS...No matter how painful or awful ( and i can see you have) PLEASE answer with the full truth ......

 

My situation was different and i Filed quickly for D..... I applaud youe efforts to R...I just have not seen many BHS stay the course...

Edited December 19, 2014 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[stillafool]

Thank you, Lovin and Owl.

 

I guess what I struggle with is that it all feels like too much sometimes. Like too big to get beyond. And I fear the way he looks at me. I am here and committed but sometimes I want to run and hide. I'm afraid I am never going to be worthwhile in his eyes. I have no job. I've put all my eggs in one basket. It is where I want to be...it just feels scary.

 

And I know that the feelings I have are x 1000 for him. That is what frightens me.

 

Keep reminding your husband that your feelings for him are x 1000. Don't be frightened to show him you are vulnerable.

Edited December 19, 2014 by stillafool

[OverIt75]

This, get rid of the third person in your relationship, one of them is going one way or the other. It would be better for you if you were able to decide who(your husband just wants to know if you can love him again because he has doubts).

 

I've already decided - I want to restore my marriage...no more MM.

[OverIt75]

His reaction is pretty normal. Generally, men are fixers. We'll blameshift the affair onto ourselves if that will allow us to fix it. It really has taken me not months but years to accept that the affair really wasn't about me (or the OM, for that matter). It was about my wife, that she wanted it all and went for it. But back in the early days, I focused on personal grooming, working out, quitting smoking, exuding confidence (when I had none), being dominant in the bedroom, etc..

 

I think you're best suited treating MC as a safe environment for both of you to communicate but avoid it as a placr to dissect the marriage as if that was the problem.

 

Was your marriage perfect? Of course not. Was something missing? Sure. Is there a marriage where this doesn't happen? The chemical rush fades. We become accustomed to one another. You've shared pretty much everything there is to know about one another and it's just not as fascinating as it used to be. If that's what you need in life, be prepared for a lifetime of 2-3 year relationships. Should we allow ourselves to be complacent in marriage? Of course not. But let's not pretend that it caused the affair or that solving it is somehow the key to affair-proofing the marriage.

 

I sense that I'm preaching to the choir here. I think the trick is going to be convincing your H.

 

Side note: I'm hoping you're in IC. If not, you'd be sending the message that the affair was a marital problem rather than a personal one.

 

I haven't placed the blame for the affair on anything or anyone but myself. In a way, that makes it more difficult for H, because if it was all about me, there is nothing HE can do.

 

MC was his request. I've been in IC for a few months now...

[OverIt75]

I swear, I thought I saw a post where someone asked me about getting a job...and poof, it's gone!

 

I was asked this on another thread...rather, it was suggested that I go get a job to show my H I wanted to contribute to our household. I wanted to address that sentiment. I am not working by my H's request. In fact, me going out and just getting another job would potentially ruin any chance for reconciliation. Going back out and doing the same thing, even if for a different company, is nothing but a trigger for him.

 

I miss working, I miss contributing. I think me being home can be difficult for my mental state. But I am doing it for my husband and our marriage.

[lovinDKT3]

I swear, I thought I saw a post where someone asked me about getting a job...and poof, it's gone!

 

I was asked this on another thread...rather, it was suggested that I go get a job to show my H I wanted to contribute to our household. I wanted to address that sentiment. I am not working by my H's request. In fact, me going out and just getting another job would potentially ruin any chance for reconciliation. Going back out and doing the same thing, even if for a different company, is nothing but a trigger for him.

 

I miss working, I miss contributing. I think me being home can be difficult for my mental state. But I am doing it for my husband and our marriage.

 

Your going to build resentment towards your husband for this. The way you talk about it, its the wrong mental approach. Your job is a result of your affair and not to save your marriage. Your looking at it from the wrong side you have to change that or it will grow into a huge issue in no time.

[Selfish]

I swear, I thought I saw a post where someone asked me about getting a job...and poof, it's gone!

 

I was asked this on another thread...rather, it was suggested that I go get a job to show my H I wanted to contribute to our household. I wanted to address that sentiment. I am not working by my H's request. In fact, me going out and just getting another job would potentially ruin any chance for reconciliation. Going back out and doing the same thing, even if for a different company, is nothing but a trigger for him.

 

I miss working, I miss contributing. I think me being home can be difficult for my mental state. But I am doing it for my husband and our marriage.

 

Well first off you need to change your view on "contributing". We have come to be such materialistic people that we view "money" as what matters in relationships. A STaHM/STaHD who is cooking, cleaning, tending the kids, running errands, fixing things, being there for the spouse is contributing just as much to the marriage as someone who has a job. (while one that sits on their butt and the working partner comes home and has to do everything anyways is definitely not contributing.) you feel your husband is more important than money or a career. So work on the things you can and do volunteer work or something to help if you feel you have too much time on your hands.

[OverIt75]

Your going to build resentment towards your husband for this. The way you talk about it, its the wrong mental approach. Your job is a result of your affair and not to save your marriage. Your looking at it from the wrong side you have to change that or it will grow into a huge issue in no time.

 

You're right...

 

It is hard for me to my head wrapped around the VERY long term consequences of my A. Permanent consequences. Both emotional and practical.

 

I have just been in a state of limbo...I am home 'for now' and have no idea what the future holds. I am trying to settle in and embrace the new normal. It is admittedly a struggle.

[drifter777]

We discussed that he had definitely taken the advice too far! I think there is something to not dragging exMM into the conversation all the time. It just keeps him 'there', between us, and neither of us wants that. But he most certainly should be able to tell me how he's thinking/feeling, so that I can support him through it.

You & your counselor are right in that it is not helpful to bring the OM into your reconciliation. Be careful what you ask for...

 

One thing you need to know is that lots of BH's focus lots of their anger and resentment and blame on the OM in order to divert it from you - the WW. Yeah, its misplaced and appears to be just a distraction - which it is - but he is not ready to face the reality that it is ALL on you. You chose to f'k this guys and lie to his face and then f'k him again and again. That's really tough for a BH to swallow all at once. At this time that's probably just too much for him to bear so diverting blame to OM is a choice that's keeping him sane. You and your MC can say that it's not productive, but without this diversion he might just be overwhelmed and walk out the door and not look back.

[OverIt75]

You & your counselor are right in that it is not helpful to bring the OM into your reconciliation. Be careful what you ask for...

 

One thing you need to know is that lots of BH's focus lots of their anger and resentment and blame on the OM in order to divert it from you - the WW. Yeah, its misplaced and appears to be just a distraction - which it is - but he is not ready to face the reality that it is ALL on you. You chose to f'k this guys and lie to his face and then f'k him again and again. That's really tough for a BH to swallow all at once. At this time that's probably just too much for him to bear so diverting blame to OM is a choice that's keeping him sane. You and your MC can say that it's not productive, but without this diversion he might just be overwhelmed and walk out the door and not look back.

 

I get what you're saying...

 

However, what was unproductive is the WAY he brought him up. We would be having a conversation or he would be on a tirade or whatever...and then he would basically unreel a VERY explicit version of what happened (or what he supposed happened) between me and exMM on a particular occasion...rattling off details he really didn't know specifics of, but just postulating, and it would be graphic and disturbing and almost obsessive. Right or wrong, these soliloquies would just serve to paint a picture and put us right back in moments we both want to forget.

[Selfish]

I get what you're saying...

 

However, what was unproductive is the WAY he brought him up. We would be having a conversation or he would be on a tirade or whatever...and then he would basically unreel a VERY explicit version of what happened (or what he supposed happened) between me and exMM on a particular occasion...rattling off details he really didn't know specifics of, but just postulating, and it would be graphic and disturbing and almost obsessive. Right or wrong, these soliloquies would just serve to paint a picture and put us right back in moments we both want to forget.

 

That shouldn't be surprising. People do that all the time to fellow BSs sensationalize and add their own versions to a story they weren't even involved it. How much more likely is it for a person who is personally affected by it to do so?

[BetrayedH]

...these soliloquies would just serve to paint a picture and put us right back in moments we both want to forget.

 

He doesn't need to forget it; he needs to reach acceptance of it.

[Nawlins]

I get what you're saying...

 

However, what was unproductive is the WAY he brought him up. We would be having a conversation or he would be on a tirade or whatever...and then he would basically unreel a VERY explicit version of what happened (or what he supposed happened) between me and exMM on a particular occasion...rattling off details he really didn't know specifics of, but just postulating, and it would be graphic and disturbing and almost obsessive. Right or wrong, these soliloquies would just serve to paint a picture and put us right back in moments we both want to forget.

 

 

You’ve also had the benefit, for lack of a better word, to really think through this for several months, and you’ve been going to IC for quite a bit longer. In this situation you’re asking your husband to be able to use the same logic and counseling tools you’ve been learning over this period of time. He’s going to need some time to get to the level of thought you are at.

[drifter777]

I get what you're saying...

 

However, what was unproductive is the WAY he brought him up. We would be having a conversation or he would be on a tirade or whatever...and then he would basically unreel a VERY explicit version of what happened (or what he supposed happened) between me and exMM on a particular occasion...rattling off details he really didn't know specifics of, but just postulating, and it would be graphic and disturbing and almost obsessive. Right or wrong, these soliloquies would just serve to paint a picture and put us right back in moments we both want to forget.

I did the same thing - exactly. When I couldn't hold the anger in any longer I had to vent and all of the horrible sh*t I'd been imagining came out. And it was obsessive because I was obsessing - legitimately so - over the emotional bomb she released on me by cheating. My WW didn't understand what I was going through and she never will. Maybe if I go out and f'k some woman and then throw it in her face and then apologize and beg for forgiveness and she reluctantly takes me back - maybe then she'll understand.

 

Ok - sorry for my rant. But my point is that every single word here is exactly how I felt sometimes and exactly how I reacted sometimes. This is much, much different then expressing misplaced anger at OM. This is him venting his rage at you. Look past the insults and realize that this is exactly what he imagines that you did with OM. And if he doesn't spew this poison out of his system it will kill your marriage. You have to deal with it because this is how he feels.

 

I don't know how often he does this or how ferociously he delivers his rant. I also don't know how long you need to be understanding and accept his rage. At some point its abuse - especially if it is frequent - but right now its a safety valve to keep him from emotionally exploding even worse.

 

One thing you can do to help him with this is to tell him whatever disgusting details he wants to know. If he hasn't asked you for such details then suggest that his rants show that he is imagining more horrible, disgusting details than actually happened so he might benefit from knowing the truth about the sex. No matter how debaucherous your sex with OM was, his imagination and the images he sees in his mind are much, much worse.

[bigman1]

He doesn't need to forget it; he needs to reach acceptance of it.

 

With all due respect, no he doesn't. He needs to grieve, then he needs to decide if he wants to remain in this marriage. If he does, then he's gonna have to accept it and all that comes with that. Alternatively, he may decide that it was a deal breaker and leave.

[lovinDKT3]

I get what you're saying...

 

However, what was unproductive is the WAY he brought him up. We would be having a conversation or he would be on a tirade or whatever...and then he would basically unreel a VERY explicit version of what happened (or what he supposed happened) between me and exMM on a particular occasion...rattling off details he really didn't know specifics of, but just postulating, and it would be graphic and disturbing and almost obsessive. Right or wrong, these soliloquies would just serve to paint a picture and put us right back in moments we both want to forget.

 

It could be him looking for some reassurance. Look you know what happened, how you felt and that you were never planning on MM long term. Your husband doesn't know those things, and honestly he needs to. The problem is he isn't ready to believe you now.

 

It can be counter productive but so was your affair. The thing is, he didn't do this you did, he doesn't have the chioce.

 

I think its hard for us that strayed to really understand how this is with them 24/7, the thoughts that wake them, or dominate their minds and bodies. I remember him telling me its all he thought about, he would get distracted for a few minutes here or there then it would come flooding back.

 

You want to move past it too fast, he is still stuck trying to understand and taking it in.

 

Share the information, tell him every thing he wants to know. Ask him if he has things he needs to know. Be proactive and not defencive. Its hard and it sucks because you know the more he knows the less he may think of you. Yet you can't allow him to piece things together, it will likely be much worse then the truth. I believe your therapist is right, but not now, its too early to ask him to move past it. Be careful with that.

 

My brother in law is a doctor and he asked us "what do you call a person who is horrible in med school, always finishes last and has a D average?" DOCTOR. Meaning not every therapist is a good one. If you have one that causes the communication to shut down you need to question that.

[jbrent890]

Glad to see your back Overit. Just to let you know, I understand your husbands position. To be honest, our MC told me something similar in regards to my wife's lying. We found a new counselor after that. The first couple of weeks after my wife and I decided to R were hell, and I was the devil. Some of the things I said to her, I never thought I would say to a woman. One of these days I will apologize. None the less though, they needed to be said. If I didn't vent, I would harbor a lot of resentment and our new MC agrees. However, at a certain point I do need to move on, which I'm starting to do. I don't think my wife was prepared for the roller coaster of emotions from my end. For a couple of days, I would be good, then one day say something horrible she wasn't prepared for. Trust me, nobody hates it more than your husband. Even though I'm so angry at my wife, I hate seeing her cry. My advice is to keep holding on. Trust me, you would rather get this now as opposed to divorce papers when your kids get out of the house.