I am being held accountable for another's racist remarks

[TineeTam]

Liono said: This doesn't matter but I'm Black. Well its not okay for anybody to call a person of another race a derogatory name. And you have have done all you can do to clear your name. If you came to me, like it seems you did in this situation,to try to smooth things over I probably would understand. I think the problem is the people associate you and your husband as one so its hard to separate his comments from you. But it doesn't give her the right to blast you. Maybe your husband needs open up about his feelings toward other races.

It IS rude to anyone to call another a bad name. When the first name was called in Anger (by my co-worker to my husband) I said “Amy, that wasn’t necessary, lets just go before this gets outta hand” (or something like that) and she addressed a “your husband is a -----“ comment to me and then turned to him again and continued with her tirade. I told my husband he should go, but he was in defensive mode (I was too actually and I wanted to say something, but thought it better to leave) The other co-worker and I both said we are leaving and suggested that they do the same.

My husband is not a racist. He has no problem with anyone because of their race, he holds no animosity toward any group of people (well, he thinks athletes are overpaid). Amy just brought out the worst in him and he was very defensive.

If my husband needs to open up about his feelings toward other races (and I don’t believe he needs to) then so does Amy---its quite apparent that she has issues with white people.

 

Is this like a one time explosion or has he had other times where you've seen this before. The lady that called him names probably needs some anger management classes and some diversity training. Here's a story.

In all our years together I’ve never heard him make a derogatory remark about another because of their race. I do think it’s interesting that you would comment that maybe he needs to open up about “race” and Amy maybe needs anger management and diversity training.

I guess it’s the words themselves that hold the power and entice particular feelings from different people. I don’t think it any less offensive for a white person to be called a racially-motivated name, than for a black person to be called a racially-motivated name.

 

 

This might not happen for you but just keep an open mind and remember everybody is different no matter their race.

I have always thought of people as individuals – when I was growing up I thought everyone felt that way. It wasn’t until I was an adult and saw how different groups of people would separate themselves from other groups and judge one person by their group. It made me think of something that I was taught “You are known by the company you keep” That was drilled into me as a child to keep me from hanging around with drug pushers and criminals-but in a broad sense it could be applied to racial stereotypes.

 

brashgal said: Have you apologized for your husband's remarks? Although you have stated that you don't agree with your husband's views, I did not read that you have apologized. Sometimes a little contrition goes a long way and you are sorry that they resorted to name calling.

I do not think I should have to apologize for anyone else. I do not control them, nor am I responsible for their actions or words.

I have commented that its really sad that two people can get into a shouting match and drag others into it, and I’m sorry that it happened.

If people want to make assumptions on my husband’s character and then apply those assumptions to me, it is only reflecting badly on them and their own character and intelligence.

 

 

RecordProducer said: TineeTam, no one wants to listen to you, because you're not right and you think you are. Unless you admit the facts, no one will forgive you.

This is exactly the kind of attitude that many at my workplace are displaying. It is pure ignorance, imo.

I am not in the wrong. My husband was attacked. It was very personal—every bit as person as it was for Amy—who started the whole thing.

You sound like some of the people at work and I’ll address what has happened later.

 

 

 

Craig said: Another thing TineeTam did your husband mean anything negative by his initial remark? If I read him right he probably would like to see a Black woman as president and didn't mean anything negative by it.

No, he was reacting to the verbal attacks by saying what he knew would hurt her back. It’s a standard human emotion. He has a lot of respect for Ms. Rice and race plays no part in it.

 

TineeTam you didn't do anything wrong here and you should hold your head up high.

Thank you.

 

 

 

amerikajin said: A lot of things went wrong here, but not necessarily all of them were your fault. I guess you learned the hard way you've got to be very careful about political discussions when you're around your co-workers, especially if race gets involved.

 

Your husband, first of all, should have kept his mouth shut. He didn't know any of the people you work with, but he got engaged in a discussion that always has the potential to spiral out of control, and it did exactly that. He had the right to express his opinions, but it wasn't necessarily the wisest thing to do. It's better to save face and keep your real beliefs to yourself than it is to show your ass and win an argument. I mean, even if you win the argument, what have you really won in the end if you lose all of your friends and peers???

Yes, you are right. He should have left when the debate began to heat up. He’s a smart man and a softie, but he also does not back down. He has apologized to me for the tension it caused in the office, and he said he would talk with Amy and try to make peace IF she would, since she is as much at fault as he is. She will not.

 

 

amerikajin said: NO! Do NOT do this. Most office networks keep back-up files, and in the event of a lawsuit, a lawyer can, and will, subpoena those backup files as evidence. If your lawyer is good he can probably send someone there to ensure that files aren't destroyed, or at least interview different witnesses to see if unusual file activities have commenced since the filing of the suit (i.e. file purgation). However, if you're caught snooping into someone else's e-mail account, that may be cause to fire you - you'd have absolutely no cause for fighting in cort. That might depend on your office's e-mail policy, but don't take that chance.

Yes, you are right! Thank you. I was not thinking clearly because I’ve let the tension get to me. I have not, and will not, attempt to get into anyone’s emails.

 

RecordProducer said: I didn't say white people hate blacks, I said the law wants to stop discrimination of blacks, because they are the victims. I didn't expect that some people will read it literally without getting the point or should I say, pretending to not get the point. Like we don't know who discriminates whom!

White people are victims too. Some people call it reverse racism – but its still racism.

 

amerikajin said: But while one can suspect he's racist, his insult, at least in the context of that situation, does not necessarily prove he's a racist. It just means that he was pissed off, couldn't get a grip, and he used what he knew would be the one thing that would piss her off the most. I'm not saying he's not a racist - he could be. But based on what we know at this point, you can't make that conclusion.

EXACTLY! In a duel of words he chose a weapon that had the most power to hurt, because he had been hurt too by Amy’s racial weapon.

 

RecordProducer said: Using expressions like "stupid nigger bitch" speaks of a very low class regardless of what he does for a living. Politeness is something you get from your family and should be steady at any moment. No matter what people say to us, there is no reason for us to be like them or what we are not. Especially if you say that SHE is a racist (could be, but everyone in the company is on HER side, not his) then by doing what she did and going even further, he showed that he was a racist (too).

I see your point, but I don’t agree. Anger and defensiveness does not make someone low-class. I’m proud that my husband stood up for himself, but I hate that he did it the way he did it. You must know anger also based on your replies to this thread. And not everyone in the company is on Amy’s side.

 

RecordProducer said: Amerikajin, I agree on your last post ...Tinee needs to clean the mess by swallowing her pride.

The other side may not agree to swallow anything, but it's Tinee that needs to bend over and say "I am sorry" or she will live with the hate.

Absolutely not. I am not going to bend over for anyone. I have done nothing wrong. It is not racist to defend one’s race – even if ones’ race is causation.

 

 

 

No matter what the black woman said (she only said she would vote for Rice cuz she's black), Tinee's husband had no right to start a hostile race talk, because she was his wife's friend and co-worker.

My husband did not start anything. He was verbally attacked first. I think you got confused.

 

Anyway, I want to repeat once again: it's not the same to attack someone you don't like and to defend yourself when someone who doesn't like your race attacks you. For the black woman it was very personal. For Mr. Tinee not.

 

TineeTam is in the middle of it, but she thinks her husband is a wonderful person after him saying "stupid nigger bitch" to her co-worker. If he is not a racist then he is definitely not a wonderful person. So what if she called him "mighty-whitey" and "white trash"? Does that mean he should insult her back? As I said it doesn't matter how it starts, but how it ends.

It was indeed very personal for my husband. How can you assume it would not be? You are not my husband and you don’t set the standards for what is personal and what is not.

And yes he is a wonderful person.

 

Update:

I spoke with my boss and his boss about what happened. Several people had brought this up to them also.

 

Amy, the other woman that was there, and I were questioned individually and allowed to tell our sides. I told them my husband is more than willing to talk with them also, and they called him too.

What is happening is that Amy was given a written reprimand for the part she played in the office in spreading stories and instigating and supporting a hostile workplace. (her emails were pulled and are now part of her personnel file too, along with a few people who replied) Each person in the company (it’s a small company) is being talked to by their department heads, more of a mini-diversity training and addressing behavior in the office and spreading rumors and treatment of fellow co-workers, and not jumping to conclusions, etc.

People have calmed down toward me (even before the talks) because the other co-worker who was there was not against me completely and after others got their own emotions under control and stopped buying in to Amy’s personal crusade, they realized that they did not have the full story.

I am being treated just fine now, and I’ve actually had a couple of people say they were sorry they treated me the way they did – especially without knowing the facts. Amy now sits in a different location so we are not right next to each other. Another woman sits there now, and yes—she’s black too, but more than that she is an intelligent and tolerant and objective PERSON.

[Craig]

[GirlDown]

thank you, i know what a hypocrite is, craig.

 

and i feel that record producer is one.

 

saying "i am not a racist" and taking the side of one race over the other is false virtue.

[Mr Spock]

This is an HR issue.

 

You need to contact your HR department, ombudsman, whatever and your entire work force needs to sit down and discuss this incident.

 

Your boss, black white or green, should be professional enough to realize this.

 

 

Nip this in the bud before it destroys your life.

[RecordProducer]

TineeTam, I understand your pain. No matter whether you're right or wrong, you feel bad.

Let's forget the racism for a moment. In my country the people are pretty homogenous in racial terms. I see like three black a year in the street. We have Asian people only and no problems with them, the rest of us are white (more than 99%). So I will exclude myself from the racial element.

It's not good that you were put in a situation like this by two people. But you can't expect from everyone to be on your side, right? However your husband was supposed to be on your side and not contribute to creating this whole mess.

It's always better to keep your head up high before you go down to somebody's else's low level. Just because somebody started call you names doesn't mean you should return the fire. If you're nice and kind, why let other people change you? There's always a way to say what you think and not only stay calm and kind and keep your head up high, but you will also defend yourself in the best possible way - with logical arguments and by showing the opponent that you're better than them. Calling people names is a sign of weakness. It's pure hostility and when you pull that trigger the only feedback you know will get is hate.

People do make mistakes, but accepting a huge fight with your spouse's co-worker is a bit too big of a deal.

We all have emotions, we've all done stupid things and we all live with the consequences and supposedly have learned something from experiences.

We may forgive our kids or parents or spouses whatever they say to us, but we don't forgive other people. There's a saying: "One should keep his words both soft and tender, because tomorrow he may have to eat them."

It's embarrassing that the boss has to solve a problem caused by your husband and your co-worker. Things would have been much better if he avoided the argument and let HER be the bad guy.

I don't believe that she started the talk as "I will vote for Rice cuz she's black and republican. I don't want to vote for any white trash like yourself, you whitey-mighty!"

Come on! It takes two to tango. Even if she said that, he didn't have to react the way he did. I hope (for your own sake) that your husband is at least embarrassed in front of you and feels bad for what he did to you, regardless of who started and who is racist.

Anyway, TineeTam, I wish you the best in solving the issue at work. Don't worry, it's still fresh and new, but after a few weeks or months people will forget about it. And all co-workers will associate with you as they did before. Ask your husband to promise you to not jeopardize your job, career, and relations with your co-workers and management in the future.

 

GIRLDOWN, you wrote "I feel that record producer is hypocrite; saying "i am not a racist" and taking the side of one race over the other is false virtue."

 

You're implying that I hate the white people, because I took the black woman's side. I can't be a racist against my own race. It's ridiculous! I am white myself.

[RecordProducer]

One more thing...as long as your husband (or you) is saying: "I will apologize if she will", no one will do it. Amy is most likely thinking the same thing.

He may show that he is a real gentleman and smarter than her and apologize first. That will disarm your peers and the tension will go away.

She started the calling names first; he might start the apologizing first.

We don't apologize because the other one has or will, but because we regret our actions. If he regrets what he did then he should say he is sorry regardless of what she says. However if he doesn't regret anything then there is no point in doing anything. There are ways to apologize and retain your pride. How about send her an email saying:

"Dear Amy, I am sorry I called you a 'stupid nigger bitch'. I know that at least one of those three you are not!"

[SixthSt.Girl]

You are acting like your husband is a victim. He doesn't sound like such a "nice man" to me, using very derogatory language like that. A nice man, a reasonable adult, would back off and refuse a shouting match in public. It sounds like your co-worker is equally to blame, but racism against whites is more acceptable in this country than racism against blacks. Probably because blacks are a minority. It's unfair, but that's just how it is. I am white, BTW. I would be pretty mad at my husband for putting me in that situation. He'd be in the doghouse, literally stuffed in like a sausage... Your defense of your husband won't help you much at work - I would at least pretend to be sympathetic of your co-worker, or find a new place to work.

[SixthSt.Girl]

[color=green]We don't apologize because the other one has or will, but because we regret our actions. If he regrets what he did then he should say he is sorry regardless of what she says. [/color]

 

I agree with this. I have said that I feel both parties are equally to blame, but now, it's not about placing blame - this has erupted into a terrible workplace situation. Even if he's not sorry, your husband should be a man and apologize - he should at least have a little remorse for you experiencing this pain.