Complicated situation with best friend

[Narcolept]

This is gonna be long and messy. Hope you guys don't mind lol.

 

I met this girl about a year ago through school. She's from the west coast, I'm from the east coast and we're at school on the east coast. At the time she was in a 3 year committed relationship with a girl. We became close friends and hung out a lot. Some of our friends would try to catch me off guard when we were out drinking and ask me if I liked her but at the time I didn't think I was.

 

Fast forward to a few months ago and her girlfriend is coming to the same city to do her Master's degree. I didn't have a good opinion of my friend's girlfriend but I mostly kept that to myself.

 

At a friend's party we both got a little too drunk and I ended up walking her home. On the way back and at her apt we hooked up. The next day we tried to figure out what to do and she was all for burying it and not telling her girlfriend because she was sure it would break them apart. I thought she should tell her gf because it would be dishonest to her girlfriend not to tell her. At this point, I still felt like her friend.

 

Eventually she told her gf and they had a huge argument. They took 2 weeks off to think about things and in that time my friend got a lot closer to me, partially because she felt like she had no one else to confide in or ask advice from. At one point she confessed that she was starting to like me (and I felt the same). After the two weeks she and her girlfriend broke up over a multitude of issues including the fact that she had cheated with me.

 

Even though I liked her, I felt I should give my friend some time to get over her ex since they were together for 3 years. And my friend also said that she felt guilty not just because it had partially ruined her relationship but also because she thinks physical stuff outside of a relationship is wrong. And despite that, we somehow end up hooking up again and again (while sober this time). By this time I'm asking her about a relationship but she's adamant that she's not interested (despite what she said earlier). It's just that despite thinking hooking up is so wrong, she's curious because she's never been with a guy before. Yeah that didn't make sense to me either.

 

A few weeks into this weird back and forth we have a 6 hour talk over the phone and I ask her why she isn't open to having a relationship. I told her that I feel like she's suppressing some of her emotions and not being entirely truthful with me (yes, not very tactful). She eventually agrees and says that she has a habit of deciding to think something and closing off her mind to any alternatives. The next day, her ex cuts off all communication and then she does the same to me. I'm a little shocked and surprised and she says she's furious with me for not taking her seriously and always doubting what she says (which I did because it felt like she was suppressing things).

 

The next 2 months we don't talk at all and my anxiety makes me a wreck. I started counseling and between that and meds things got a little better but it was hard. After that time, we start talking again and she says she's open to being friends again but that she's still trying to forgive me. And she's not open to the idea of a relationship (yes, I know but bear with me). The next few weeks are a little rocky and we argue a bit but over the last week before Thanksgiving we suddenly get really close again. At that point we're studying together all the time and giggling and teasing each other like little school children. She maintains that she doesn't like me that way but that she does care about me a lot and wants to help me move on if she can because she doesn't want to hurt me.

 

Then right before Thanksgiving she drops a bombshell and says that she's been talking to this guy in California (where she's from) and that she thinks she likes him. She is going to hang out with him when she goes back for Thanksgiving but she doesn't know if he feels the same way. And he's also 7 years older than her. I'm 23, she's 24, and he's 31. I'm a little....freaked out but I try to not let it get to me much. She apologizes for telling me about it when she knows it hurts and that it was just because it felt so natural to talk about anything with me. Over Thanksgiving I wonder about it and the day after she texts me at midnight saying that she's locked out of her room and she wishes I was there with my lockpicks (I have a set). I call her and tell her that I can try to come by the next day to help her out.

 

The next day we study and practice together and when I get over there I unlock the door for her. We go out for dinner and talk a lot and things seem just fine. Back at her place later I casually ask her how it went with that guy in California. She said she definitely thinks she likes him but she doesn't know how he feels. I finally talk to her again about us and she's still adamant that she doesn't feel anything for me that way.

 

I ask her if she doesn't feel that way or if she is blocking herself from feeling anything. I tell her that she's got a lot of reasons to feel guilty and I think that that's why she won't let herself feel the way she did before. There's the cheating, that the hooking up was outside of a relationship, that most of her friends including our mutual friends don't think she should have a relationship with me, that she said her ex (who started talking to her again) would finally cut her off for good this time if she started dating me, etc. And she's also very very good at burying and suppressing things, but I still feel like I'm getting signs from her. She says in response that whether she doesn't feel anything or isn't letting herself feel anything doesn't matter because the end result is the same: she won't like me that way. I can't get anything more out of her and she shuts down and just continues to deny without giving any more explanations.

 

We finally get tired of talking in circles (which happens a lot when she won't open up to me about her feelings) and.....lo and behold we hook up again. This time, she asks me if I have a condom which is kinda....offputting. She's never been with a guy before me so she's never had sex before, it was all oral before this. I don't but I remember to think about it later. Afterward, she tells me that she's still physically attracted to me but she feels guilty after hooking up and she still doesn't feel anything emotionally for me.

 

I'm thinking that if you were so against hooking up, if it feels so wrong, if you actually like this other guy, if you're so sure that you have no feelings for me....then how come we keep hooking up and how come you just asked me to take your virginity?

 

Her explanation is that because she was with her ex for 3 years, she figures she's lost her virginity (although their sex was never more than oral and finger too...whatever). We discuss it some more and I bring up the fact that she's not being consistent and that maybe we should talk to a counselor about this. She gets very defensive and says that that stuff is a waste of time and that although she supports me going to one she sees no point in going herself (ironic because she's a cognitive psychology major).

 

I talked to my counselor and friends and family and finally came to the conclusion that I don't want to keep doing this **** anymore. I decided to give her one more chance but that if she's not willing to be open with me, then I'm done with her. She messages me about getting lunch which we had planned earlier and I tell her that I don't want to anymore. She apologizes for her outburst and says that she knows I'm a better person than she is and that I ask her hard questions that she doesn't always want to think about which made her dismissive. But she does want to talk about it after finals are done.

 

Currently, I'm NC with her. Between counseling, medication, and NC the anxiety towards her is not so bad so I do feel better. But I still miss her and I want this to work out. Our talk is set for next Friday and her flight back to California is the day after. I want to dig to the bottom of this and see where we stand but I have a feeling it won't quite turn out the way I'd like it to. And I think I'm prepared to walk away if she's not willing to meet me halfway on this.

 

What are your guys' thoughts on this?

Edited December 14, 2014 by Narcolept

[CC12]

I'm a little shocked and surprised and she says she's furious with me for not taking her seriously and always doubting what she says (which I did because it felt like she was suppressing things).

 

Why do you always doubt what she says?

 

How many times has she told you she doesn't want a relationship with you? Why are you refusing to accept that? I realize that it can be confusing when someone flirts and fools around with you yet doesn't "like you in that way." Believe me, I think what she is doing is completely wrong. She's trying to do a FWB thing with a friend who clearly has romantic feelings and wants a relationship with her. She's not being fair to you, at all.

 

But you really have to stop doubting what she's clearly telling you. You're being offensive, and I can see why she got mad at you over it. You're still doing it, though. She tells you in no uncertain terms that she doesn't want a relationship and you're basically patting her on the head and going, "Shhhh, you're just suppressing your true feelings." You even did a similar thing here when you wrote about her correcting you on the status of her virginity. You said "whatever" and explained why she was wrong. That was a weird thing to pull on her, by the way, using her sexual history to prove some sort of point about how she must feel about you.

 

I want to dig to the bottom of this and see where we stand but I have a feeling it won't quite turn out the way I'd like it to. And I think I'm prepared to walk away if she's not willing to meet me halfway on this.

 

She has already told you where you stand. What do you mean by her being "willing to meet halfway on this"? What is halfway?

 

Honestly, I think you should accept what she's told you, and now would be a good time to stay NC for a long while, until you no longer have romantic feelings for her. You may never stop feeling that way about her, actually, so maybe the friendship is over. But you can't keep spending time around a person who does not reciprocate your romantic feelings, but will still flirt with you, be sexual with you, and keep talking to you about her other romantic interests. It's not good for you.

[Narcolept]

You're right, it is offensive and when I realize what I'm doing, I hate it. I don't want to be that ******* who doesn't take his partner seriously and it's very condescending when I do. But every time I have, she's turned around and told me that I wasn't entirely wrong. This doesn't justify my actions though and it's wrong, hence the ultimatum of NC.

 

When we talked about her virginity, after she said that she didn't feel she was a virgin because of her relationship with her ex, she took a moment and then told me ".....I see what you mean, it really is a big step....I need to think about this." I don't want to seem like I don't take lesbian relationships seriously. I do. But I feel like some experiences are different and having sex with a man for the first time is kinda important, even if you have been with a woman before. And knowing her, she doesn't make these decisions lightly.

 

What I meant by meeting me halfway is that her primary coping mechanism all her life has been burying things. I want to ask her to be completely open with me and for us to try to understand things, even if neither of us has an immediate answer and in spite of the fact that it may be painful or scary. She's always kept some things private even from close friends and talking about issues is kinda foreign to her. I'm the first person she's really opened up to (maybe even moreso than her ex). When she said that she gets frustrated with me when I try to sort these issues out with her, she said "Maybe it's a cultural difference, where I'm from, NOBODY talks like this [about their issues]". But it ends up biting her in the ass when she doesn't talk about them and she's starting to realize that.

 

With her ex, she was with the girl for 3 years. They cared about each other a lot but there were problems from the start that they never worked out. Her ex did not like any of her friends or family and if ever invited to events would basically ignore them and just talk to my friend. It was kinda rude and something my friend took personally because she didn't want to have this dual life between her girlfriend and her friends and family because her girlfriend saw no point in being friends with or even polite to the second group. But she let that problem and others fester for 3 years to the point that her sister said after they broke up "I'm sorry.....but that was 2 years longer than it should have been."

 

And I know it seems like I'm trying to see the best in her but she's not the kind of person to string someone along. She honestly feels guilty every time we hook up and she doesn't want to cause me this pain. So when so many of her actions are contradictory, it makes me confused. I would understand that she's trying to do FWB with me if she said "I like what we have but I'm not ready for a relationship. Let's just do this." But she doesn't. Afterward she always says "...This was wrong. We can't do this again." But we do. So how can she say that she can separate physical and emotional feelings (aka she's only attracted to me physically) but then that she also feels so guilty and ashamed afterward?

 

So many of our conversations seem to run like this "I don't get it, how come this happened?" and she would respond with "No. It just isn't. I don't know if it's because I don't feel anything or if it's because I'm not letting myself feel something for you but it doesn't matter, the end result is the same. There's nothing to talk about.....except what I don't want to discuss."

 

But you're right, I don't want to be the person who's always doubting my partner's statements because even if it is right sometimes, it's still wrong to do. And I don't want to be with someone who isn't open and won't or isn't willing to reciprocate. The scary thing was realizing that this could mean we won't be friends ever again but I guess that's part of the deal with NC right? As long as it takes for you to move on, if ever.

 

She said she wants to talk about it this time so I want to give it one last shot. In the past, I've always been the one to raise the issue and she always said she was very clear and that this was just for my benefit. So her saying she does want to talk about it is a change. But if it doesn't work out, then it's time to do NC.

[CC12]

And I know it seems like I'm trying to see the best in her but she's not the kind of person to string someone along. She honestly feels guilty every time we hook up and she doesn't want to cause me this pain.

 

Then why does she continue to do it? I don't know how you can say she's not the type of person to string someone along. It doesn't take a bad person to string someone along, necessarily. People do it when they're feeling down and need a self-esteem boost, or when they're feeling lonely and want to be close with someone. Having someone give you love and attention can be intoxicating. The drama of having six-hour-long conversations about "why don't you want me" can also be enticing to some.

 

Afterward she always says "...This was wrong. We can't do this again." But we do. So how can she say that she can separate physical and emotional feelings (aka she's only attracted to me physically) but then that she also feels so guilty and ashamed afterward?

 

Maybe she feels guilty because she's toying with your emotions by sending you huge mixed signals.

 

Good luck with your talk on Friday. I hope things go how you want them to go.

[Narcolept]

Haha I hate it when reason punctures the hopes you have but you're right. Thank you. It's sobering to hear that. I tend to forget that good people still do bad things when they want them despite knowing that they're wrong (like I have too).

 

I hope so too. Thanks again. I guess I'll update after it happens (and more succinctly).