Frank2thepoint Posted December 9, 2014 Posted December 9, 2014 The woman will be guessing as to your intentions, and believe it or not, most women are not the game-playing masterminds that some men make us out to be. Many of are insecure and clueless. We will come up with 99 reasons as to why a guy probably isn't really interested in us 'that way' and only 1 reason as to why maybe he is. Forgive my ignorance, but from my experience, when a woman asked me out for drinks after I had talked and flirted with her, get three dates, only to have her back peddle and say she isn't looking for anything serious, or a woman I flirt and compliment, get a couple of dates, talk about intimate topics, have her say she is open to the idea, and then suddenly tell me she doesn't have time for a relationship, I have to think she has one foot out the door, with her heart in check, ready to bolt the moment the guy reveals his feelings. That awfully sounds like some game-playing mastermind sh*t to me. Or did my genuine interest make them think of 1 of 99 reasons that I'm probably not really interested?
phineas Posted December 9, 2014 Posted December 9, 2014 Which is better, just straight up asking "Can I take you out on a date?" or be more subtle and ask "I'd like to have some coffee with you sometime"? There is a difference between the two? Unless you are co-workers or long time friends a woman should know a guy asking her to coffee is a date.
Phoe Posted December 9, 2014 Posted December 9, 2014 There is a difference between the two? Unless you are co-workers or long time friends a woman should know a guy asking her to coffee is a date. I agree. Asking a woman to coffee is direct. I'd know what it meant. My idea of subtle is if something went totally over my head and I had no clue. Like "I'm sending you mental signals that I like you but I'm not saying anything" subtle.
Danda Posted December 9, 2014 Posted December 9, 2014 Forgive my ignorance, but from my experience, when a woman asked me out for drinks after I had talked and flirted with her, get three dates, only to have her back peddle and say she isn't looking for anything serious, or a woman I flirt and compliment, get a couple of dates, talk about intimate topics, have her say she is open to the idea, and then suddenly tell me she doesn't have time for a relationship, I have to think she has one foot out the door, with her heart in check, ready to bolt the moment the guy reveals his feelings. That awfully sounds like some game-playing mastermind sh*t to me. Or did my genuine interest make them think of 1 of 99 reasons that I'm probably not really interested? It's definitely possible you ran into some game-playing bad apples, but I was more so referring to just the initial approach of asking a woman out for the first time. I've had guys ask me to hang out but that never said to me that they are interested in me romantically or sexually, and in the majority of cases they never wound up expressing romantic or sexual interest specifically. So I learned not to get my hopes up at all just because a guy asked me to hang out. At best it was some kind of unofficial audition or something, and then the guy could claim he was never attracted to me at all in the first place. What you describe sounds is a scenario in which you had multiple, official dates with the women, and they weren't interested, but also didn't have the courage or respect for you to just spit it out in a gently blunt manner. I don't think that it's mastermind game-playing the majority of the time (sure, though, some women i.e. some people are game players). I think most of the time it's about refusing to be or fearing being vulnerable in any way, being indecisive, placing more value on niceness/politeness than honesty, etc. But I still see it as more so the woman having issues than deliberately trying to **** with men's minds (in most cases). And like I said in the half of my post that you cropped off, I see men in a similar fashion when they are approaching a woman. Afraid to be vulnerable, not wanting to commit to even being interested romantically in the first place (indecisive), and worrying more about how the woman will react than getting a truthful message across. But that doesn't mean they are playing games. Just that they are human like us women. And again, I think that we tend to assume that the other is somehow more strategic than we are in some way, when usually it's both people fumbling through the whole thing. Fear, nervousness, uncertainty, indecisiveness, pride, etc can all easily come across as game-playing to either gender but most of the time it's not as sinister as it seems.
elaine567 Posted December 9, 2014 Posted December 9, 2014 I think at some level there needs to be an appreciation that this is a date otherwise opportunities can be missed. "I'd like to have some coffee with you sometime"? is too subtle. Faced with that I would say "Sure, see ya around?" or "Sounds good" and walk away. Because I would think it is just one of those phrases people say and do not necessarily mean. Just like "Let's meet up sometime". Also some people meet people for coffee all the time, they are not dates, just people hanging out together or filling up their social time or just practical meet-up, if, for instance, you were at work. "Lets meet for coffee in an hour before we go to that meeting", will not be seen as a date, even if that was the intention. There has to be some indication that this is an individual request to someone you are interested in dating and the best way to get that info across is actually to use the word date when you ask the question, as then it is not ambiguous.
Frank2thepoint Posted December 9, 2014 Posted December 9, 2014 What you describe sounds is a scenario in which you had multiple, official dates with the women, and they weren't interested, but also didn't have the courage or respect for you to just spit it out in a gently blunt manner. I don't think that it's mastermind game-playing the majority of the time (sure, though, some women i.e. some people are game players). I think most of the time it's about refusing to be or fearing being vulnerable in any way, being indecisive, placing more value on niceness/politeness than honesty, etc. But I still see it as more so the woman having issues than deliberately trying to **** with men's minds (in most cases). You are correct, concerning my situation and experience, the women didn't have the courage and were probably being polite/nice. But even that I consider as mastermind game-playing because they probably told themselves they will go out with me as a formality, knowing full well I was genuinely interested, and had the plan to shut me down by not being ready for anything serious. It would have been better if those women just gave the typical deflection answer of "I'm busy" when I asked them out. And like I said in the half of my post that you cropped off, I see men in a similar fashion when they are approaching a woman. Afraid to be vulnerable, not wanting to commit to even being interested romantically in the first place (indecisive), and worrying more about how the woman will react than getting a truthful message across. But that doesn't mean they are playing games. Just that they are human like us women. Of course it's not one gender to blame for the lack of wanting to be vulnerable. It's a two way street. But when one person is being indecisive, he/she can be easily dismissed as being confused, unsure, still getting over a past hurt, etc.. But I think being indecisive is game-playing because the person knows they can't give their full self, so they convince themselves things might change if they go out with the other person, and still be unsure after several dates. Hell, some people take it as far as have sex, completely lead the other on, and still be bewildered about their feelings being in conflict with the present and past.
carhill Posted December 9, 2014 Posted December 9, 2014 I've tried the gamut and direct, though it led to more harsh and equally direct rejections, seemed to work out better. The direct method certainly worked to keep me out of the undisclosed MW milieu, where otherwise MW's could hoover a lot of attention before dropping the boom. Once I stopped the women on a pedestal thing and started seeing people as interchangeable, and became more direct, success improved.
spiderowl Posted December 9, 2014 Posted December 9, 2014 Which is better, just straight up asking "Can I take you out on a date?" or be more subtle and ask "I'd like to have some coffee with you sometime"? Definitely the coffee option. If you don't know a guy, you might want to spend some time with him to get to know him better. This does not mean you want that meeting to be labelled a date from the start. However, if you like her in that way, it might be best to say something like you find her interesting and would really like to get to know her. That is a bit stronger than just a coffee but still vague enough to take a chance on.
Danda Posted December 9, 2014 Posted December 9, 2014 You are correct, concerning my situation and experience, the women didn't have the courage and were probably being polite/nice. But even that I consider as mastermind game-playing because they probably told themselves they will go out with me as a formality, knowing full well I was genuinely interested, and had the plan to shut me down by not being ready for anything serious. It would have been better if those women just gave the typical deflection answer of "I'm busy" when I asked them out. Of course it's not one gender to blame for the lack of wanting to be vulnerable. It's a two way street. But when one person is being indecisive, he/she can be easily dismissed as being confused, unsure, still getting over a past hurt, etc.. But I think being indecisive is game-playing because the person knows they can't give their full self, so they convince themselves things might change if they go out with the other person, and still be unsure after several dates. Hell, some people take it as far as have sex, completely lead the other on, and still be bewildered about their feelings being in conflict with the present and past. I think I get where you're coming from. Chances are you have your head on straight, know what you want and are honest/upfront about it without pride or similar things getting in your way. And if that's the case then naturally you would expect the same level of maturity in your dates and get irritated when that's not the case. Is that accurate? I think we are actually in agreement but looking at it from two different angles. While I'm pointing out that people can be immature without meaning to hurt anyone, you're pointing out that at this point in your life, you wish people would get their **** together before dating so they don't hurt people, deliberately or not. If that's the case then we are on the same page hehe.
shet Posted December 10, 2014 Posted December 10, 2014 I've struggled with this all my life even back to high school. Make it direct and you can scare someone timid or unsure off by seeming predatory. Or put off certain kinds of women who firmly believe relationships come from friendship and don't "do" dating with anything less than friends. Or **** up a work/social relationship that should've been more carefully sounded out. Make it laid back and subtle and some other kinds of women can miss it entirely, assuming you want to be friends. Or doubt you have the balls to ask them out direct. Or even put a woman off entirely because she wanted you to ask her out direct and thinks you're "friendzoning" her, which she won't tolerate. Worst of all is when people are just such bad communicators a subtle approach leads to a "date" that isn't a date, or 2 or 3, with both unsure what's actually going on despite both investing the time and effort in going out. I've always preferred subtlety, but it has cost me. I'm not going to say it lost me the girls, but I will say it extended the ****show longer than it would've with a direct approach and rejection. Even so, I've tried direct, and it's never worked for me. I think a large part of that though is the nature of the relationships I historically form with women. There is always a prior association, and a direct approach always shocks and upsets them.
Frank2thepoint Posted December 10, 2014 Posted December 10, 2014 I think I get where you're coming from. Chances are you have your head on straight, know what you want and are honest/upfront about it without pride or similar things getting in your way. And if that's the case then naturally you would expect the same level of maturity in your dates and get irritated when that's not the case. Is that accurate? I think we are actually in agreement but looking at it from two different angles. While I'm pointing out that people can be immature without meaning to hurt anyone, you're pointing out that at this point in your life, you wish people would get their **** together before dating so they don't hurt people, deliberately or not. If that's the case then we are on the same page hehe. Bingo. You are correct on both points.
Recommended Posts