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Cheaters are BROKEN?!

Realist3

By Realist3
in General Relationship Discussion

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elaine567 Established Member

elaine567

Posted
Posted

When a person commits a criminal act, especially one of a heinous variety, we as a society cannot understand that an individual

can be walking around and be as unconventional in their thoughts as to be able to murder, to torture people, to steal massive amounts

or to go on gun crazed rampages.

WE label them broken, because to comprehend that they may be somehow normal, goes against all our beliefs.

We are angry that they go against the norm, we cannot let them get off with the fact they may be quite happy murdering people,

or carrying out huge frauds and bank raids, so we label them as tortured souls, damaged goods, broken individuals.

 

I feel it is a bit similar when cheaters are labelled broken, damaged, tortured.

Those on the receiving end of their actions, NEED to think of them in that way.

To believe they quite happily destroyed marriages, broke hearts and ruined families is too much to comprehend.

We as a society NEED to believe they do those things, because there is something wrong with them.

 

The betrayed also NEED to grab the moral high ground and they NEED to believe the cheater is somehow below them.

To label cheaters as broken and damaged does that.

Rainbowlove Established Member

Rainbowlove

Posted
Posted
When a person commits a criminal act, especially one of a heinous variety, we as a society cannot understand that an individual

can be walking around and be as unconventional in their thoughts as to be able to murder, to torture people, to steal massive amounts

or to go on gun crazed rampages.

WE label them broken, because to comprehend that they may be somehow normal, goes against all our beliefs.

We are angry that they go against the norm, we cannot let them get off with the fact they may be quite happy murdering people,

or carrying out huge frauds and bank raids, so we label them as tortured souls, damaged goods, broken individuals.

 

I feel it is a bit similar when cheaters are labelled broken, damaged, tortured.

Those on the receiving end of their actions, NEED to think of them in that way.

To believe they quite happily destroyed marriages, broke hearts and ruined families is too much to comprehend.

We as a society NEED to believe they do those things, because there is something wrong with them.

 

The betrayed also NEED to grab the moral high ground and they NEED to believe the cheater is somehow below them.

To label cheaters as broken and damaged does that.

 

I agree with this to an extent, when I think of myself as a broken wayward - I don't believe I'm truly broken as a person. I think I was/am broken in my ability to communicate with my spouse my needs/wants/desires.

 

I think I was broken in the sense that I didn't know how to establish sold boundaries in my marriage and in other relationships.

 

There were pieces of me that were/are broken, but not my whole self. I'm not a broken person. I'm a strong woman who has achieved great things in this life, but aspects of myself failed for sure regarding my marriage and affair.

TrustedthenBusted Established Member

TrustedthenBusted

Posted
Posted (edited)
This topic obviously flew right over your head. I don't need justification for anything. I am simply posing a differing view that is what is most commonly held. I'm not arguing right or wrong.

 

Nothing went over my head. Believe me, you are not being as profound as you may have convinced yourself you are.

 

You original assertion:

 

I would posit that perhaps for a certain percentage of the population it is the concept of monogamy itself is what is broken.
This is bull****. Monogamy is not broken. It is what is it. You either sign up for it, or you don't. Replace the word with "mortgage" and you get the same thing.

 

You sign up for it, and make a commitment to it, and either you BREAK that commitment or you do not.

 

If you break it, simply because you no longer agree with the terms, this is fine.

 

But if you hide from those terms, lie to your friends and family about them, pretending to still meet them, until faced with incontrovertible evidence...then pal... you've got a character flaw. And we call that 'broken'

Edited by a LoveShack.org Moderator
  • Like 13
HereNorThere Established Member

HereNorThere

Posted
Posted

The problem with this thread is that there is no real baseline of what broken is. You could argue that a selfish person is "broken" because they lack empathy, but for others, broken may mean that they have real a mental health issue like psychopathy.

 

Without the baseline of what broken really means, we'll just go around in circles.

  • Like 2
Arieswoman Established Member

Arieswoman

Posted
Posted

Realist3,

 

Post 12#

 

My point is her prose did not address the topic. She was just rattling off, "They suck, they suck, they suck." She is not addressing the actual issue.

 

What issue do you want her/us to address ??

  • Like 2
elaine567 Established Member

elaine567

Posted
Posted
I don't believe I'm truly broken as a person. I think I was/am broken in my ability to communicate with my spouse my needs/wants/desires.

 

I think I was broken in the sense that I didn't know how to establish sold boundaries in my marriage and in other relationships.

 

There were pieces of me that were/are broken, but not my whole self. I'm not a broken person. I'm a strong woman who has achieved great things in this life, but aspects of myself failed for sure regarding my marriage and affair.

 

Is not everyone "broken" to an extent in dealing with spouses, do we not all have boundaries that we wish we had defined better?

Do we not all have communication issues, great or small?

TrustedthenBusted Established Member

TrustedthenBusted

Posted
Posted

Personally, the line for "broken" for me is living a double life.

 

Have we all lied? Sure. Have we all failed to communicate effectively? Sure. Have we all harbored resentments, felt excitement over someone new, wished we were still single, cheated on our taxes? Sure.

 

But none of these things lead to living a double life. None of them lead to compartmentalizing the most important people in our lives.

 

To do that, you gotta have some real screws loose IMO.

  • Like 5
purplesorrow Established Member

purplesorrow

Posted
Posted
When a person commits a criminal act, especially one of a heinous variety, we as a society cannot understand that an individual

can be walking around and be as unconventional in their thoughts as to be able to murder, to torture people, to steal massive amounts

or to go on gun crazed rampages.

WE label them broken, because to comprehend that they may be somehow normal, goes against all our beliefs.

We are angry that they go against the norm, we cannot let them get off with the fact they may be quite happy murdering people,

or carrying out huge frauds and bank raids, so we label them as tortured souls, damaged goods, broken individuals.

 

I feel it is a bit similar when cheaters are labelled broken, damaged, tortured.

Those on the receiving end of their actions, NEED to think of them in that way.

To believe they quite happily destroyed marriages, broke hearts and ruined families is too much to comprehend.

We as a society NEED to believe they do those things, because there is something wrong with them.

 

The betrayed also NEED to grab the moral high ground and they NEED to believe the cheater is somehow below them.

To label cheaters as broken and damaged does that.

 

As a bs, I didn't NEED to do any of that. I thought he was a selfish ********* who cheated because he wanted to and could.

  • Like 3
Rainbowlove Established Member

Rainbowlove

Posted
Posted
Personally, the line for "broken" for me is living a double life.

 

So then if someone is married, upfront about falling for someone else, moves out of the family home, engages in an emotional/physical relationship with said person while your spouse is fully aware, is that not a broken person??

 

I didn't live a double life, but I sure hell was broken.

 

Is that why my spouse is able to forgive me? Because I put it all out there for her and the world to see before actually betraying her?

 

Is it the lying and sneaking and double life that hurts more and breaks trust than the actual "cheating" act it'self?

  • Like 2
jm2013 Established Member

jm2013

Posted
Posted
So then if someone is married, upfront about falling for someone else, moves out of the family home, engages in an emotional/physical relationship with said person while your spouse is fully aware, is that not a broken person??

 

I didn't live a double life, but I sure hell was broken.

 

Is that why my spouse is able to forgive me? Because I put it all out there for her and the world to see before actually betraying her?

 

Is it the lying and sneaking and double life that hurts more and breaks trust than the actual "cheating" act it'self?

 

Rainbow, I think you hit the nail on the head. I think the lying double life most WS's live hurts more than the cheating itself. If my wife said "Hey, I don't like x,y and z in our marriage and I have found somebody else. I'm sorry but good luck" then up and left I would have had MUCH more respect for her. Would it have still hurt? Hell yes, but I'd respect that she told me the truth and was being up front than sneaking around behind my back.

  • Like 1
elaine567 Established Member

elaine567

Posted
Posted

Is the cheater only truly "broken" when they are found out and they decide to rebuild their marriage?

 

Is a cheater who flees with the AP actually "broken"?

Is the serial cheater who is accepted back into the marital fold again and again, "broken"?

Arieswoman Established Member

Arieswoman

Posted
Posted

I don't know if I am on my own but I am having a real problem as to where the OP is coming from.

 

Personally, I don't give a rat's backside how people want to live their lives with the proviso that they don't cause harm and distress to others while doing whatever they want to do.

I also believe in people' right to have informed choice.

 

So, if my partner wants to frequent prostitutes (because he wants some kind of sexual activity that I won't supply) then I would like to know about this because, among others things, I might not be happy about being put at risk for an STD (even if he wants to take the chance.)

  • Like 4
Rainbowlove Established Member

Rainbowlove

Posted
Posted
Rainbow, I think you hit the nail on the head. I think the lying double life most WS's live hurts more than the cheating itself. If my wife said "Hey, I don't like x,y and z in our marriage and I have found somebody else. I'm sorry but good luck" then up and left I would have had MUCH more respect for her. Would it have still hurt? Hell yes, but I'd respect that she told me the truth and was being up front than sneaking around behind my back.

 

I've been wondering if that makes a difference in our recovery.

 

My wife didn't like hearing the truth. I didn't like telling her the truth b/c it was devastating. Many of my friends said I was being too honest, but I felt like that's how I would have wanted to be treated if the roles were reversed - as hurtful as it was.

 

Please know in no way does this excuse my behavior for hurting many.

elaine567 Established Member

elaine567

Posted
Posted
Rainbow, I think you hit the nail on the head. I think the lying double life most WS's live hurts more than the cheating itself. If my wife said "Hey, I don't like x,y and z in our marriage and I have found somebody else. I'm sorry but good luck" then up and left I would have had MUCH more respect for her. Would it have still hurt? Hell yes, but I'd respect that she told me the truth and was being up front than sneaking around behind my back.

The forum is full of people whose exes broke up with them and they are hurting like hell. Most get a lot of relief eventually from NC.

I believe it is the constant presence of the WS in the reconciled marriage that keeps opening the wounds, and makes it hurt so bad long term.

  • Like 2
HereNorThere Established Member

HereNorThere

Posted
Posted
Is the cheater only truly "broken" when they are found out and they decide to rebuild their marriage?

 

Is a cheater who flees with the AP actually "broken"?

Is the serial cheater who is accepted back into the marital fold again and again, "broken"?

 

 

 

1. - No, you have to be pretty "broken" to that in the first place. Getting caught is irrelevant.

 

2. - Yes, but the fleeing part is irrelevant.

 

3. - Yes, this is one of the hardest things that BS have to deal with. Now you have to accept a person who doesn't meet your standards and expectations for a spouse, mostly because you've already bonded with them. It's hard to lower your standards and take a risk with a person you wouldn't normally make yourself vulnerable to.

  • Like 1
TrustedthenBusted Established Member

TrustedthenBusted

Posted
Posted

And let's not forget that what is broken, CAN be repaired.

 

Just takes work and honest, deep self reflection.

  • Like 5
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Realist3 Established Member

Realist3

Posted
  • Author
Posted
This is really a classic example of a strawman argument. At the very least, you combined 3 different subjects or points of contention that really have nothing to do with each other. I see:

 

Cheating, lying, manipulation and deception

 

Non-monogamy

 

Sexual Orientation

 

All three or more of these arguments may be made one way or another, but they are not the same issue.

 

If you want to argue that non-monogamy is natural and monogamy is not, that's fine. I think the real issue is there is a huge difference between being a liar/cheater and being non-monogamous.

 

And lol @ comparing cheating to a sexual orientation. Should we change the lingo lgbtc now? It's really that level of rationalization that shows what's really "broken."

 

You as well missed the comparison. Maybe I didn't spell it out quite clearly enough since so many people have been confused. I am not making a direct comparison between cheating and sexual orientation. The two situations are completely different. The comparison was how they have both been treated in society. Both were outlawed in religious teachings, outlawed by governments, looked down upon from society as whole for thousands of years.

 

In the broader spectrum, maybe it is just who they are. In a more microscopic view perhaps people realize the mistakes in previous decisions. That understanding does not excuse the decisions made after the fact, but it does not render those future or ongoing decisions as being 'broken'. Capiche?

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Realist3 Established Member

Realist3

Posted
  • Author
Posted

The whole reason for the comparison between the cheater and the gay person is because I have family members that are gay. The way society had treated them their whole lives is that they were wrong. They were broken as individuals. They lied to their families, they lied to their friends, they lied to themselves.

 

Cheaters likewise lie to themselves, to their spouses, to their families, etc., in an effort to conform to what is expected of them. Neither scenario suggests the person is intrinsically broken.

Rainbowlove Established Member

Rainbowlove

Posted
Posted
In the broader spectrum, maybe it is just who they are.

 

Thanks for the clarification. :rolleyes:

 

Maybe it's who YOU are.

  • Like 1
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Realist3 Established Member

Realist3

Posted
  • Author
Posted

Don't get me wrong here. I have a fully clear conscience.. It hit me today that if my MW came and posted on this board about her story in our A, everyone would suggest she is broken, when she is not.

Rainbowlove Established Member

Rainbowlove

Posted
Posted
The whole reason for the comparison between the cheater and the gay person is because I have family members that are gay. The way society had treated them their whole lives is that they were wrong. They were broken as individuals. They lied to their families, they lied to their friends, they lied to themselves.

 

Um...it's called a closet. Not really lying, first off. It's more hiding for safety reasons. Drop the comparison. it's annoying coming from a straight guy.

 

 

Cheaters likewise lie to themselves, to their spouses, to their families, etc., in an effort to conform to what is expected of them. Neither scenario suggests the person is intrinsically broken.

 

Waywards lie, not go into the closet. They lie, not to protect themselves, but to serve themselves.

  • Like 5
truncated Established Member

truncated

Posted
Posted
That is a very cliche term thrown around boards like this in describing a WS. But are they really broken?

 

I would posit that perhaps for a certain percentage of the population it is the concept of monogamy itself is what is broken.

 

History has well evidenced that monogamy is not an instinct, it is a learned behavior imposed on people for numerous reasons. Societies for thousands and thousands of years have written rules about this very topic mainly in religious teachings. The same way that homosexual activities have been ostracized in these same teachings throughout history. Are gays broken? I would suggest that neither the cheater or the gay is broken. Instead I would say they are both following their natural path, which society at large has deemed unacceptable for conditioned reasons. Both still exist no matter how much brainwashing we have been introduced to during our lives. They existed from the beginning of time and they exist today.

 

I know that some people will say because I was upfront with my wife after getting busted I am not broken. BUT if my MW came on this site and relayed her story about our A, she would be labeled broken. Same relationship. I don't view her as broken at all. She is just a person that after maturing realized she made a bad choice of a lifelong partner at the age of 20.

 

Speaking of cliche's. "Well, then get divorced. Thousands of people get divorced every day." That is much easier said than done, and as evidence shows the women in most cases get the short end of the stick, so to speak, not just financially, but morally as well.

 

Then there is the honesty thing. That is why they are broken. Or is it? Up until recently both being gay and having an affair/divorce were taboo, and in some ways still are. People were not being honest with themselves or their spouses since forever. Does that make them broken?

 

We have numerous examples, but one in particular on this board of a woman that was living in a sham of a marriage from the beginning. Was her husband 'broken' because he tried to conform to what society/wife expected, but failed?

 

Conformity. If you do not conform you are deemed broken. I really don't think that is a fair diagnosis.

 

 

i take huge issue wuth you comparing being gay to cheating. A gay relationship doesn't hrt anyone, it's not built on dishonesty, and btoh people involved know what's going on.

 

Cheating is nothing like this, and comparing the two seems to be grasping at straws to try and legtimize hurtful behavior.

 

As for non-monogamy being normal. Have you ever talked to the wives/husband's who were just one of many? An awful lot of them are in the relationships bcause their religion requires it ( some sects of mormonism, some muslim sects, etc.) . These relationships ahve nothin to do with emotins, they are financial, pragmatic arrangements, ofetn arranged by the families of those involved. The poepel in them can hurt every bit as much as some one "forced' to be monogamous when they don't feel it's right for them.

  • Like 3
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Realist3 Established Member

Realist3

Posted
  • Author
Posted
Um...it's called a closet. Not really lying, first off. It's more hiding for safety reasons. Drop the comparison. it's annoying coming from a straight guy.

 

 

 

 

Waywards lie, not go into the closet. They lie, not to protect themselves, but to serve themselves.

 

I would beg to suggest that the reason for lying is much the same, safety. You have other safety concerns, while the wayward has other safety concerns. It is ALL self preservation.

truncated Established Member

truncated

Posted
Posted
Every single person here has lied or cheated(in some way, not necessarily with a spouse) in their lives.

 

 

perhaos you are fine with people lying to you, and lying to them, but an awful lot of people are not.

 

If we follwo your thinking, than any form of deception and hurtful behavior is acceptable because " everyone lied at some time in their life".

 

you are no different than the "religion" you feel is trying to force its opnions on others.

  • Like 3
TrustedthenBusted Established Member

TrustedthenBusted

Posted
Posted (edited)
The whole reason for the comparison between the cheater and the gay person is because I have family members that are gay. The way society had treated them their whole lives is that they were wrong. They were broken as individuals.

 

SOmeone telling you you are broken, and someone actually BEING broken are two different things.

 

Gays are not broken. That is only the opinion of their detractors.

 

Cheaters ARE broken

Edited by a LoveShack.org Moderator
  • Like 6
While the thread author can add an update and reopen discussion, this thread was last posted in over a month ago. Want to continue the conversation? Feel free to start a new thread instead!
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