EgoJoe Posted December 3, 2014 Posted December 3, 2014 I have another post in the Breaks and Breaking Up forum titled, "She Cheated and I left." I'm healing but looking for perspective. My question to those here is: What is your experience with the extreme denial, rewriting of history and demonizing that an unremorseful cheater does including denial of infidelity in the face of insurmountable evidence?
jackslife Posted December 3, 2014 Posted December 3, 2014 I can't speak personally, but I read a blog by a marriage guidance counsellor. In it he recounts how a wife walked into the bedroom to find her husband shagging a neighbour. Despite being caught bang to rights the husband tried to convince his wife she was having an hallucination.
Arieswoman Posted December 3, 2014 Posted December 3, 2014 EgoJoe, What is your experience with the extreme denial, rewriting of history and demonizing that an unremorseful cheater does including denial of infidelity in the face of insurmountable evidence? All of that ^^^^ That's why my exH is an ex and why he got the divorce papers a week after DD. I honestly believe they are having some kind of problem with reality when they have affairs. Personally, I refused to be part of that problem. I lost all our friends over the divorce, because he badmouth me and his family took his side as well. I also lost a lot of money. What I kept was my integrity and self-respect - no contest really... 5
Spark1111 Posted December 3, 2014 Posted December 3, 2014 It's part and parcel of the cognitive dissonance that is often a necessary component of having a secret affair. The denial, fog, call it what you will, alleviates their conscience and allows them to participate in the affair because they now pull rabbits out of imaginary hats to justify it. Truly an example of delusional thinking. 4
Mal78 Posted December 3, 2014 Posted December 3, 2014 I have another post in the Breaks and Breaking Up forum titled, "She Cheated and I left." I'm healing but looking for perspective. My question to those here is: What is your experience with the extreme denial, rewriting of history and demonizing that an unremorseful cheater does including denial of infidelity in the face of insurmountable evidence? I call it being a Narcisist. In fact if they admit to cheating they expect you to get over it *like that* and will get angry or go into a narcisistic rage if their partner brings it up. It might take up to 2 years to recover but a Narcisist expects you to get over it within days. Research Narcisists and cheating/affairs... you will get a wealth of answers and understanding. 10
waterwoman Posted December 3, 2014 Posted December 3, 2014 I can't speak personally, but I read a blog by a marriage guidance counsellor. In it he recounts how a wife walked into the bedroom to find her husband shagging a neighbour. Despite being caught bang to rights the husband tried to convince his wife she was having an hallucination. Wow! Did he also pull a rabbit out of a hat and produce some silk flowers from his arse?? 4
oldshirt Posted December 3, 2014 Posted December 3, 2014 You don't need to convince the cheater that they cheated, you only need to realize it yourself. 8
DKT3 Posted December 3, 2014 Posted December 3, 2014 I'm as hard as anyone here on cheaters, however, due to her age (21) and the fact that you've been in a relationship with her for almost three years I wouldn't expect her to do things the right way. She is immature and likely doesn't understand her feeling. Between 17 and 25 people go through a great deal of growth and are only beginning to discover who they are and what they want in life. As the much older (I believe that's what you said in another thread) one in the relationship, you should take the higher road. I know it hard because your hurting, but you love her so allow her to be free and grow. Let her play her games as kids do, I believe she is also hurting and doesn't know how to handle the pain so she lashes out and trys to rub this other guy in your face. Just move on. 2
Clay Posted December 3, 2014 Posted December 3, 2014 Just walk away. They showed there true colors. You now know the truth. Your better off cutting off all contact and moving on with your life. You will never really be able to understand what makes a cheater cheat and honestly who cares. That is there problem. Just focus on you and the direction you want to go. Clay 2
Author EgoJoe Posted December 3, 2014 Author Posted December 3, 2014 (edited) The other thread was for my break up. I did all the right things, I didn't do anything crazy. I've been making strides though absolute betrayal is worse than a break up due to lack of feelings. My self worth took a hit but I've had a lot of support for the way I got out of there. I'm 28, when I started dating she claimed to be older by two years, I left her for that lie but we always want to believe they lied because they liked us. her it's funny how you can know all of these answers and understand the defense mechanisms bit without all of the time and space for perspective your objectivity is still not sound. At first I could only think of when I was less than amazing in the , as time wears on I see the strides I was making a friend of mine who she and I lived with for a while even said to me that he observed me before better with her as time wore on. Through blood sugar rage and stupid fights he said, so I know it is not about me but to experience a seemingly psychotic break was traumatizing. This thread is for perspective alone as I'm now in 100% strong NC. Edited December 3, 2014 by EgoJoe
TrustedthenBusted Posted December 3, 2014 Posted December 3, 2014 The denial can actually be as entertaining as it can be enlightening. There were times in the beginning where I actually got a bit of a kick out of cornering my WW on her lies. Reminded me of Tom Cruise getting Colonel Jessup to admit he ordered the Code Red. Once forced to cop to her BS, I'd often ask her just at what point did she realize that her BS wasn't going to work anymore? And I also asked her what was going through her mind while she was trying to give me razzle-dazzle when she KNEW I had the truth in print already. She just said she didn't know. ( same thing my 6 year old does ) She felt like she was going crazy herself, and was just so afraid of losing everything that she was scrambling for anything to make it easier. Eventually she accepted that the truth was easier, but that took years. 1
Author EgoJoe Posted December 4, 2014 Author Posted December 4, 2014 Some of the crazy things she said were like knifes to the face. "It wasn't cheating this relationship has been over for a long time." "I should have never came back to you but I was afraid of you because you're crazy." This was right after I finally got her to admit what I knew about her lies. Followed shortly thereafter by how amazing he is blah blah blah. This is from a girl who got in my face a lot when her blood sugar was high and I did everything to settle down stations and when I would get angry she would stand in my way to stop me from leaving.
FusionCutter Posted December 4, 2014 Posted December 4, 2014 Some of the crazy things she said were like knifes to the face. "It wasn't cheating this relationship has been over for a long time." "I should have never came back to you but I was afraid of you because you're crazy." This was right after I finally got her to admit what I knew about her lies. Followed shortly thereafter by how amazing he is blah blah blah. This is from a girl who got in my face a lot when her blood sugar was high and I did everything to settle down stations and when I would get angry she would stand in my way to stop me from leaving. She's afraid of you. She called you crazy. Just let this go.
Author EgoJoe Posted December 4, 2014 Author Posted December 4, 2014 Dude, I never once gave her a reason to fear me. This is why the statement got underneath my skin. Your advice is a little too black and white for my taste. I'm merely venting. I had 1000x opportunities to do the wrong thing and have only done the right thing time and time again.
Lernaean_Hydra Posted December 4, 2014 Posted December 4, 2014 Some of the crazy things she said were like knifes to the face. "It wasn't cheating this relationship has been over for a long time." "I should have never came back to you but I was afraid of you because you're crazy." This was right after I finally got her to admit what I knew about her lies. Followed shortly thereafter by how amazing he is blah blah blah. The part in bold is one classic line of a cheater that has always stuck me as odd. In my experience, people who are "afraid" of someone don't go out of their way to exacertbate a situation. Oh, I slept with someone else because I was scared. What!? I mean, how much sense does that really make when you spell it out? How could cheating possibly be the better option here? The bottom line is, cheaters are often so steeped in their own delusion they don't even realize how ridiculous they sound, or somehow believe if they say a thing enough times - no matter how nonsensicalthat thing is - you'll start to believe it. Your ex is a selfish bitch scrambling for any way to vindicate herself and excuse her atrocious behavior. Don't even try to make sense of her actions, let alone her words. 2
SycamoreCircle Posted December 4, 2014 Posted December 4, 2014 Oh man oh man, I could talk your ear off on this one. Narcissist fog is a nice description. My ex said to my face, "I don't hate you. There isn't anyone else." She said those things of her own accord. I didn't suspect either, until she denied them. When she spoke, it was like how a person might speak who is on the verge of sliding down a giant oiled razor blade. The words themselves become detached from emotion, from responsibility---it's like they're phantoms floating across a small stretch of time. Three months post-break up, three months NC---heard tell I had "emotionally blackmailed" her. Where on earth she got that term is beyond me. I also thought exes become MORE fond of you as time goes on. Not mine. The rage just builds and builds in her. During the break up she was always angry at me. Why? I couldn't for the life of me figure out. She was sick of talking about it, though we'd never talked about it. Everything was wrong about me and made her miserable. Narcissistic rage. Some of my favorite quotes by her(note how denial on her part was always the surest form of affirmation): "I don't even care if you think all this had to do with the other man; it had to do with all that other stuff!" "You have no idea how sorry I am about this. Just because I don't sob and scream like you." "I could explain everything but between how angry I am and how little you believe me, I don't think it would make a difference." She did admit that she has issues she needs to work out before ever entering a serious relationship again. It was like dealing with a 4 year old.
flowergirl14 Posted December 4, 2014 Posted December 4, 2014 My husband has lied and denied so many times that i have come emotionally numb. Why Im still here who f**! KNOWS? I clearly know he did it and he knows I know and yet he will only admit to an emotional affair. Its been over a year since Dday. I dont feel much emotion. Sometimes I am mad at myself that I have basically swept this under the rug. At the same time im glad im off the emotional rollercoaster for now. I have some other family issues going on too and i am focusing on those. However, do you think i will ever get over this feeling of defeat and demand more of myself? This relationship?
Author EgoJoe Posted December 4, 2014 Author Posted December 4, 2014 I think that the only way to find clarity is to regain our objectivity. Your situation is so much more difficult than mine. Mine is over I got out and while it's sad, we legitimately have to fight our emotions. During that last week "together" she spit on me, dumped my coffee out on me and more. Her blood sugar was high but she was obviously lashing out due to self hate and shame.
DbleBetrayal Posted December 4, 2014 Posted December 4, 2014 My WH briefly denied what he did when I first confronted him (which I knew he might), he only came clean when I bluffed I was told everything by the OW- so he better just own it cos he was fooling no one. I also bluffed some other things that I 'knew'- which I didn't, but the gut feeling was there; and he ended up admitting all that other stuff was right too. Amazing. FFS.
badkarma2013 Posted December 4, 2014 Posted December 4, 2014 My WH briefly denied what he did when I first confronted him (which I knew he might), he only came clean when I bluffed I was told everything by the OW- so he better just own it cos he was fooling no one. I also bluffed some other things that I 'knew'- which I didn't, but the gut feeling was there; and he ended up admitting all that other stuff was right too. Amazing. FFS. My WW had thousands of dollars of new clothes...company bought...LIE She had paid for gym and country club membership..company bought..LIE Travel expenses paid..LIE...OM (boss) bought all...promoted her so she could travel with him...SHE LIED UNTIL HE SHOWED ME THE PICS OF OF HER ENGAGED IN SEX ACTS WITH HIM...AFTER i OUTED HIM TO HIS BW.. After i saw those ...not much left to say... I guess after much reflection...There any many out there who have Dealt with the Issues and have Truly understood what brought this to their lives...and now find a peace with it. I see more "false r" who still struggle for years...WS not remorseful...and never realizing the Horrific damage THEY caused. Ive never been anti R ...just never Really seen much success ....
TrustedthenBusted Posted December 4, 2014 Posted December 4, 2014 Its really not all that strange. We've all lied to someone important about something important to protect our asses at some point. Cheaters just take the top prize
HereNorThere Posted December 4, 2014 Posted December 4, 2014 Lying beforehand is somewhat understandable I suppose, but most sane people don't lie when they are confronted with blatant evidence. I think that's the part OP is trying to get at, the EXTREME gaslighting. Most people know when they're busted, they're busted, but cheaters take it to another level. My guess is that when you admit something, you have to accept the consequences, so for most of them, they would rather just continue with the lie, even if the lie is no longer plausible. You see this sort of tactic with celebrities and their PR people. 3
TrustedthenBusted Posted December 4, 2014 Posted December 4, 2014 Lying beforehand is somewhat understandable I suppose, but most sane people don't lie when they are confronted with blatant evidence. I think that's the part OP is trying to get at, the EXTREME gaslighting. Most people know when they're busted, they're busted, but cheaters take it to another level. My guess is that when you admit something, you have to accept the consequences, so for most of them, they would rather just continue with the lie, even if the lie is no longer plausible. You see this sort of tactic with celebrities and their PR people. This is why defense attorney's make so much more money than prosecutors. Duck, Dodge, Prove reasonable doubt. I think it's pretty natural ( although friggen annoying ) to only admit defeat when you absolutely HAVE to. When you get to that point with an obstinate cheater, where they absolutely forced to confess in the face of bombproof evidence, they really aren't admitting it to YOU as much as they are finally admitting it to themselves I think.
TrustedthenBusted Posted December 4, 2014 Posted December 4, 2014 I just lol'd because I remember one point where I was yelling at my WW and showing her hard evidence right after she had lied about it and she yelled " Fine! Whatever! " I remember stopping and actually chuckling, and repeating " Fine? Whatever?" Such a crazy time. 1
checkoutat10 Posted December 4, 2014 Posted December 4, 2014 My experience has been that my WH has lied to me from the beginning of our relationship, and I shouldn't have been all that surprised that he would lie to me about an EA (PA?). My WH made so many farfetched lies on D-Day, it was unreal. I literally was caught in a state of complete bemusement and rage at his lies. The rage was mostly because he thought I was stupid enough to believe him. Some of my favorites from DDay.....after I found a strange contact on his phone simply named "Air Force": 1. "A buddy of mine that I worked with." then, when I called the number and got a female's VM: 2. "Actually I think it's his GF number, or he lives with her, or I don't know" 3. "I can't remember her name" And my absolute FAVORITE!! 4. "I actually set this all up with a fake number and a fake female's voice just to see how jealous you'd get and show how insecure you are" It took him two days to confess to an EA. I will never know if it was a PA because they were in Germany while he was stationed there for a year. I highly suspect it was a PA as well, but the OW denied this when I asked her. Who knows. Who cares? All I know, is his lying arse is kicked to the curb. I deserve BETTER. 4
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