Liquidated Ring

[Rainbowlove]

And...

 

This is also for myself...

 

You are worried about your daughter coming from broken home, the home is already broken. It's intact physically, but broken emotionally.

 

The question is can it be fixed emotionally?

[jm2013]

You sound like a good man and father.

 

What you are saying about your feelings isn't weird at all. In fact, I'd say it's a normal process of discovering your emotions after what you've been through.

 

Happiness shouldn't be in pieces, should it? Happy with this part of my marriage...unhappy about this part of my marriage...I get that you don't feel whole.

 

You want the complete package. You deserve to have that feeling of content and completeness.

 

It would be easier for many of us just to start over and many ppl do. They just close the door and never look back.

 

Trust your gut. No one knows you better than you know yourself. Your daughter wants you to be happy and whole. If you are not, she will not be either. We teach our kids how to love and be in relationships. They look to us to role model everything, I know you know all of this.

 

Continue to take care of you. Everyone will benefit, even your little girl...no matter the outcome.

 

Thanks Rainbow. I appreciate that.

 

JM, I see your plight and I want to give you this principle. If you live a life that is authentic and true to you, then you will live well. Everyone has regrets, but the worst type of regret belongs to those who compromised on their values. In short, be true to yourself.

 

If waging this internal struggle is true to who you are, then continue. On the other hand, if the struggle is really about whether to be true to yourself or to some other purpose/cause/person, then stop fighting and go with being true to yourself.

 

We all have an internal guide. Its the thing that makes you uneasy when you are doing something that you know is wrong. It is also the thing that makes you uneasy when you are not being true to yourself.

 

As far as your daughter living in a broken home. Well, that is hard. I have a daughter so I understand your pain. I will say this, what is going ot best for her, living in a "broken home" or living with a "broken man" in a "broken" relationship? I have never known anyone to successfully hide the pain, suffering, bitterness, that comes with living contrary to one's own truth. Never, ever.

 

She can live with two loving parents with two loving "whole" homes. I do not urge you one way or the other, but I do say this, if you are not true to yourself then you can never give her the best you that she deserves. Instead, you will just give her the best that you can muster up on any given day. To use a metaphor, you are a four star chef and instead of giving her four star meals wherever you end up, you will give her a bunch of canned food for the sake of eating in a particular place.

 

Be true to yourself, whatever your truth is.

 

Thanks bigman1 this makes a lot of sense. Thanks for your input.

 

Ok.... So first and foremost you need honesty. I get the sense that along with that you need some sense of justice.

 

Have you sat her down and told her the there is absolutely no way you guys can move forward if she cannot be honest with you? I mean if she can't be trustworthy... if she keeps clinging to lies... then there is no point to trying. She HAS to be willing to let you have the full truth and just trust you won't walk out. She has to trust you first and right now she doesn't! How can you trust her when she refuses to trust you? This needs to be a conversation you have with her.

 

Along with truth you seem to desire some form of justice. There is a hard rock of anger and resentment. I think once she gets honest and you actually start the healing process.... this will become the next stumbling block.

 

You need to talk to her about honesty. Write it down and give her a letter if that works better. She may connect with that communication style anyways.

 

I've told her this countless times. I can no longer prove her dishonesty and I think she knows this. There seems to be a stalemate where when the WS knows how much the BS they may leak some more info but keep things at that. What is the point of her telling me ALL when I don't know? Maybe she thinks those words that would have to come out of her mouth would be so destructive and permanently damage the marriage. The end all.

 

The thing is I cannot prove her dishonesty and she knows this. I don't rely and her words to get the facts right. I know there are things that are probably buried within her. I know she probably wishes this would all just go away so we can forge on. I carry a gut feeling there's more to her story. Some of the things she's said are so asinine it is really hard to believe. She can't even fabricate a story that makes sense. She also minimizes everything which I hate.

 

 

I don't see how it can get better or improve when she is still with holding info from you to protect herself and possibly her OM.

 

Have you addressed that head on in counseling? If not, next appointment sit down in that office and say point blank "I can't forgive you when you simply won't allow me to understand all the info - all the things you are working so hard to cover up about your affair"! "Those are the things in the way of our marriage healing - and if you're unwilling to get honest with me right now - we have nothing to work on".

 

I have tried yes. The counselor will always look at her and ask her if there's anymore. She's sticking to her guns though. I cannot prove her wrong. I have very little evidence and the most I have is what she gave me. Her friend told me how many times she thought they had sex and my wife eventually told me. I'm not sure if my wife and her friend corroborated this story before hand to make it more authentic and believable. Anything is possible. I think I'm going to write a whole bunch of stuff down and bring it to next session. I really want her to know and understand clearly what and why this is all bothering me.

[TrustedthenBusted]

You're not being harsh. I thought I WOULD be able to work at it. There is something inside preventing this. It is like a hit a roadblock. I imagine recovery being a mutual thing. Where both parties are happy. I am indeed happy with certain things. I'm happy we aren't arguing and happy we do things as a family. It just feels like she no longer fulfills my needs as a lover. I don't want this to come off the wrong way. I still care about her it just feels like it is in a different way now. Would it still hurt if we divorced? Absolutely. I know this all sounds weird. I guess I'm trying to channel in to my inner feelings about this all. I'm not even sure if I could get past my internal struggle to have a real successful reconciliation. Otherwise I would be burying it all deep within and putting a smile on my face to the outside world while I am living in an internal world of torment. Constantly thinking about it. I hate it. I could almost feel a 1 ton boulder being lifted off my chest if we did divorce. I have started envisioning a different kind of life. My own condo or house, independence. Being set free from all of the emotional junk. Being able to do my own things to heal from the mess. Then I look at my poor little daughter. Knowing that she'd have to live in a broken home. It tears me to pieces.

 

Get out of my head.

[TrustedthenBusted]

I don't believe there is ever 100% recovery. How could there be?

 

When someone cheats on you, risks your health, your sanity, and everythign you've worked for, they show you EXACTLY where you stand with them, and I really don't think that can be undone.

 

What you CAN do, is remain together under clearer rules and expectations, and even find love and happiness with that person again. But it will never be 100%, because it was never 100% to begin with.

 

Maybe 100% isn't even realistic.

[No Limit]

Find a way to travel back in time and unscrew and unlove the other guy.

 

This is the exact answer I had when I asked myself if I'd ever forgive infidelity. I loosened it a little though; I'd forgive my imaginary-future-husband if he made the effort to get a PhD degree in physics. The closest it will ever be to time travel I'm afraid (at least in my lifetime).

[jm2013]

I don't believe there is ever 100% recovery. How could there be?

 

When someone cheats on you, risks your health, your sanity, and everythign you've worked for, they show you EXACTLY where you stand with them, and I really don't think that can be undone.

 

What you CAN do, is remain together under clearer rules and expectations, and even find love and happiness with that person again. But it will never be 100%, because it was never 100% to begin with.

 

Maybe 100% isn't even realistic.

 

Yeah. I hear you. I was so peeved when my wife tried to "prove" the unprotected sex was a sign that it was one spontaneous event. I asked her who the hell she thinks she is. In real life situations that logic doesn't even make sense. I have NOT had sex because I didn't have condoms before. I didn't just go "crap, I don't have condoms, oh well!". I don't believe there is ever 100% recovery either. I'm not sure if I could ever find the love I used to have with her. I could though find some sort of happiness. I just know who I am as a person. To be honest, it feels weird to be cheated on. I'm surprised she did that and was capable of it. It still surprises me to this day.

 

I know it will be a rough road ahead. My desire for somebody more pure I think will end up prevailing. If this marriage were to terminate I want to find myself again then when the time is right share it all with a deserving woman who I can truly love 100% and make love to without being grossed out by vivid images and betrayal that knots the stomach.

[drifter777]

... The counselor will always look at her and ask her if there's anymore. She's sticking to her guns though. I cannot prove her wrong. I have very little evidence and the most I have is what she gave me. Her friend told me how many times she thought they had sex and my wife eventually told me. I'm not sure if my wife and her friend corroborated this story before hand to make it more authentic and believable. Anything is possible. I think I'm going to write a whole bunch of stuff down and bring it to next session. I really want her to know and understand clearly what and why this is all bothering me.

You will never find the truth because, even if she actually told you every single detail, you wouldn't believe her. You will never believe her because she lied and cheated and then minimized and lied some more after d-day. Really - how could you ever believe a single thing she says related to her cheating? Often times a WW will share bullsh*t with her BH like "he was small" or "he couldn't last" or simply "the sex was terrible". I think they do this so it gives the appearance that they are sharing intimate details. Of course they believe that these made-up details actually help them mitigate the sex and somehow repair your male ego. This is just an example of the length some WW's will go to in order to hide the truth and make their BH "get over it".

 

She will take it all to her grave - you will never know the truth. But, more importantly, you would never believe her anyway. Don't these two statements mean the exact same thing? Isn't the result the same?

 

I feel such empathetic pain for your situation - you wouldn't believe how close it is to my experience. A huge difference is that I was 24 and was so ashamed of her behavior and my decision to stay that I sought no help from friends or family or clergy. I was seeing a shrink at the time and I NEVER even shared it with him. I was determined to bury this in my mind and never face the reality of it. Classic denial. You are miles ahead of where I was and, obviously, much more mature. I actually pray that you will keep grinding through your true emotions and get to the peace of mind all BH's hope to reach.

 

I wrote this post through tears.

[Davey L]

*******************************************************************

 

What SYMBOL DID IT SIGNIFIE WHEN SHE WORE IT WHILE BANGING THE OM...WELL...

 

When you CHOSE to commit INFIDELITY ....YOU GET WHAT YOU GET...ALL BETS ARE OFF...

 

Honest to God..some on here still amaze me ...OR ITS NEVER HAPPENED TO THEM....

 

There's no need to be shouting in capitals at me; it's offensive.

 

It has happened to me, actually. But I've also done it myself. It no longer seems a completely black and white thing of good spouse vs. bad spouse.

 

My point remains that there is nothing to be gained from hurting WW if you are genuinely trying to reconcile. I'd have let her keep the ring but asked her not to wear it until I was happier about the marriage.

[spanz1]

there is absolutely NO requirement for a betrayed spouse to ever Reconcile. If the R is not working, and a year(s) later the mind movies of her getting some strange are still running in the back of your head...it is probably an indication WS is NOT working hard at gaining back your trust, is NOT doing the heavy lifting required for you to TRY to forget and forgive.

 

 

Words mean little, actions and results count. If you are miserable, the results never happened, and you should move on.

[TrustedthenBusted]

i think, even after 25 years, something can trigger that bad memory and bring back the anger and doubt. Unless they can develop a chemical memory wipe sometime in the future...i think very few ever get off scott free from those dark memories. The best you can do is if they ever come back, apply some coping mechanism to put the memories to rest for another couple years.

 

I talked to a friend recently whose wife cheated on him 30 years ago, and during the talk he welled up and had to stop.

 

Spoke with another friend whose first marriage ended over and affair, and she was much more light hearted about it, but still said she gets pissed off whenever she thinks about it.

 

Neither of those stayed with their WS, and it STILL hurt. Made me nervous.

[drifter777]

there is absolutely NO requirement for a betrayed spouse to ever Reconcile. If the R is not working, and a year(s) later the mind movies of her getting some strange are still running in the back of your head...it is probably an indication WS is NOT working hard at gaining back your trust, is NOT doing the heavy lifting required for you to TRY to forget and forgive.

 

Words mean little, actions and results count. If you are miserable, the results never happened, and you should move on.

Ok - maybe this is the case for some. But I think it often means that the BH is finally realizing that his WW is forever tainted, as is the marriage. He starts to realize that even though she seems to be doing everything a WW should be doing to reconcile, it ain't working because he simply can't accept what she did and who she turned out to be and he doesn't want to settle for the life he is now living.

[TrustedthenBusted]

 

I know it will be a rough road ahead. My desire for somebody more pure I think will end up prevailing. If this marriage were to terminate I want to find myself again then when the time is right share it all with a deserving woman who I can truly love 100% and make love to without being grossed out by vivid images and betrayal that knots the stomach.

 

I wish you sincere good luck with this.

 

Once thing I know for damn sure is I'd never ever get married again, nor would I expect someone to remain faithful.

 

One thing this experience has taught me is that you get enough drinks in just about any married person, and they will cop to cheating on someone somewhere along the line.

 

What we're all discussing on here is the infidelity we CAUGHT. Just imagine how much we all missed.

 

Screw that. next go-round I'm looking out for numero uno just like apparently everyone else does.

[RightThere]

You're not being harsh. I thought I WOULD be able to work at it. There is something inside preventing this. It is like a hit a roadblock. I imagine recovery being a mutual thing. Where both parties are happy. I am indeed happy with certain things. I'm happy we aren't arguing and happy we do things as a family. It just feels like she no longer fulfills my needs as a lover. I don't want this to come off the wrong way. I still care about her it just feels like it is in a different way now. Would it still hurt if we divorced? Absolutely. I know this all sounds weird. I guess I'm trying to channel in to my inner feelings about this all. I'm not even sure if I could get past my internal struggle to have a real successful reconciliation. Otherwise I would be burying it all deep within and putting a smile on my face to the outside world while I am living in an internal world of torment. Constantly thinking about it. I hate it. I could almost feel a 1 ton boulder being lifted off my chest if we did divorce. I have started envisioning a different kind of life. My own condo or house, independence. Being set free from all of the emotional junk. Being able to do my own things to heal from the mess. Then I look at my poor little daughter. Knowing that she'd have to live in a broken home. It tears me to pieces.

 

I am working out some business things into next year. I will float as much as I can to make sure my daughter's education isn't affected in any case of divorce. I'll make sure there's enough money for everybody to enjoy I guess. It's only money... I'll just make more!

 

Wow. Glad to see some other R stories on here similar to my own. I'd like to say I'm 9 months into reconciliation, but there's been so many false starts and broken NC that I couldn't even gauge when real reconciliation started.

 

I will say I did get the independence for a while. And my daughter was living in a broken home. But is wasn't that bad for her (as far as I could tell). The WW and I didn't talk much, but when it came to our daughter, we were all ears and totally involved. Our daughter knew sh was loved and probably was being raised better than some families that stay together "for the kids."

 

But I'm right in the same boat. I have flashed of loving my wife again, but they are followed by flashed of "you are still the person who did all those terrible things to me." One minute she's forgiven and then next minute I need her to be punished more. It doesn't help that she has not followed the rule book for a remorseful WW. It does seem to get better every day, but I don't think it will ever get to 100% forgiven.

[DbleBetrayal]

Can relate to many of the feelings here on many of the posts. At times reconciliation can feel really superficial, for the betrayed anyway. It's awful. You know you can't talk about it and bring it up forever, but it's on the mind. So you put on your poker face. Fake smile, fake conversation, sometimes just barely concentrating when WH is talking because my mind is in a fog of hurt or hate. Even times when I catch myself in a really good moment with WH, the thing, the dark cloud in the back of my mind comes to move in soon after. Places that he takes me now to be romantic, like over looking a sunset at the beach- I know the way I used to feel watching things like that with him, but now they are tainted. Or going to a comedy club, or going to see a movie with him- I can't concentrate. Like I'm just going through the motions but not really there. It's surreal.