OCD-Husband Posted December 1, 2014 Posted December 1, 2014 (edited) My wife and I have been married almost 21 years we have had a very rough marriage. In large part to me fighting depression and losing that battle for many years. but we managed to stay together partly for our 4 boys 3 of them I brought into the marriage and one of our own. Recently our youngest moved out and we had a heart to heart discussion on what we wanted now, we decided that we still loved each other and wanted to work on our marriage. Counseling, open discussion with each other were on the table, During our discussions agreeing to new start and complete honesty my wife confessed to cheating a threesome with her best friend and her boyfriend, three years into our marriage. Over the years I had asked several times if anything happened with them she always denied anything had happened my reason for suspecting something occurred, is my wife took women lovers previously and we had discussed a threesome as a fantasy of mine. One day out of the blue when our relationship wasn't in a good place my wife and her best friend show up.( fyi this friend did not like me) my wife starts kissing and undressing me while her friend has a camera in her hand things progress wife invites friend to join us she declines and films. Sometime after this, my mind kept saying this had to be quid pro quo or something so I asked my wife who said this wasn't the case and would get angry at me for asking. When my wife finally admitted what occurred I was angry and hurt but in the spirit of starting over I forgave her. I admitted to having a one night stand with the mother of our oldest son eleven years into our marriage we were drunk. I know no excuse she climbed in my bed woke me and we did the deed I have always regretted it. When I confessed this to my wife her first response was she couldn't forgive it and we were done after 20 minutes or so she realized she was being a hypocrite. We cried and asked for each others forgiveness. We then found the five love languages and it was eye opening and changed our marriage and everything has been great sexually spiritually the best we have ever been. Life has been good for a year now. The problem I need help with is when I ask her about Quid pro quo she denies that was the case and but, at the same time she says doesn't remember, How can a woman not remember this, women, remember everything. She blames it on bad memory I try to make myself belief this I guess I don't. I feel like I don't have closure without knowing everything that occurred. I have read about trickle disclosure and wonder what else she hasn't told me. I think its at a point she will never tell me even if she does remember. She gets angry when I ask or talk about it. To go on I told her I will assume the worst and forgive her for it. I have but it still eats at me how do I get past this feeling of no closure? Edited December 1, 2014 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
nofeelings22 Posted December 1, 2014 Posted December 1, 2014 (edited) You found out it happened. She admitted it. That IS your closure. Let it all go and continue with the good. You both had a lapse. It's even. It's fair. Move on. Edited December 1, 2014 by a LoveShack.org Moderator 1
Man Mountain Makino Posted December 1, 2014 Posted December 1, 2014 The passionate desire to get closure is an immature concept. There's no closure to many episodes in life. Like this one.
DKT3 Posted December 1, 2014 Posted December 1, 2014 She has had a long time to deal with this and has since dropped it in a box and put it away. For you its somewhat new. I think the issue isn't so much closure as it is you think there is more there. Bottom line is you don't believe she is being totally honest. That feeling will never allow you to put this behind you. Oh yeah she remembers, maybe she feels if she is totally honest that it would be too much for you to move foward in the marriage. This is simply my opinion, but her anger at your questions make me think this wasn't a one time thing and you only know the tip of the iceberg. She is using anger to bully you off the subject. If there wasn't more she wouldn't be angry and would be a lot more understanding. I think your options are 1) let it go 2) keep probing, let her know how important it is for you to know, how important knowing is for you to move forward. Its not immature to want or need this information. Not having it will create resentment and honestly kill what's left of your marriage. 1
DbleBetrayal Posted December 1, 2014 Posted December 1, 2014 She has had a long time to deal with this and has since dropped it in a box and put it away. For you its somewhat new. . He only confessed to his cheating when he found out she did. They are both cheaters. 4
DKT3 Posted December 1, 2014 Posted December 1, 2014 He only confessed to his cheating when he found out she did. They are both cheaters. Yeah, I got that. What I'm saying is he seems to have satisfied her about his infidelity. Or she isn't asking because she doesn't want to open the door. He wants to communicate about it and she doesn't. Either she wants to rugsweep or she is hiding more. I lean towards hiding more.
drifter777 Posted December 1, 2014 Posted December 1, 2014 She remembers every detail - don't kid yourself. For some reason she is afraid and/or ashamed to be honest about it. She'll probably never tell you. Why is this one thing so important? You both cheated and are trying to repair your marriage. Its hard and its going to take a lot of work and a lot of time . All cheaters lie. A lot. How many details have left out in order to "spare" her? 1
road Posted December 1, 2014 Posted December 1, 2014 He only confessed to his cheating when he found out she did. They are both cheaters. So, that still does not do away with his need for the truth.
DbleBetrayal Posted December 1, 2014 Posted December 1, 2014 (edited) So, that still does not do away with his need for the truth. I'm sure she is wondering the truth as well, no matter what is disclosed here. I mean cheaters lie. Whose to say what's true. That the OP chose to continue lying about his cheating for years is a sign that there was and still is problems to resolve. Is he going to start being honest or does he just expect that from his wife? Edited December 1, 2014 by DbleBetrayal
BetrayedH Posted December 1, 2014 Posted December 1, 2014 I'm a little confused about the quid pro quo, not that I'm unfamilar with the phrase. Is it that you think she offered you the threesome as some sort of effort to allow you to get even and assuage her guilt over her own hidden threesome without having to tell you? If that's the case, I'm kinda curious why that particular issue would be of such importance to you. As for her pack of memory, I'm not sure. Typically I would agree with drifter that affair partners do remember the details and just don't want to share them but if you're asking about her internal motivation for offering you a threesome, perhaps it was an impulsive decision and didn't involve a auid pro quo plan. That said, what I can understand would be frustration over any continued lying on her part. I was unable to reconcile with my wife after her affair but it wasn't as much because of the affair as much as it was because I couldn't reconcile with someone who was still all good with actively lying to my face. If that's the kind of life partner I'm going to have, I'll go without. I recommend you read the thread pinned at the top of this forum, Things that every wayward spouse needs to know. Share "Jacob's Letter" with her (or is it Joseph's letter?; I can never remember). Anyway, it stresses the importance of honesty and explains our need to know details quite well. It may get her to lower her defenses and share with you. Now with all of that said, it's encouraging that you both volunteered your confessions. Statistically, a voluntary confession doubles the odds of reconciliation over a discovery. I believe that's because it demonstrates true remorse, which is what permits forgiveness. Long story short, I think you're good candidates for reconciling but my gut says she's going to have to suffer another conversation with you about this to help, not with "closure," (which ultimately comes from within) but with demonstrating her current willingness to be honest with you. I think you will have to stress that you don't care much at all about what happened then as much as needing honesty from her now.
Author OCD-Husband Posted December 1, 2014 Author Posted December 1, 2014 (edited) I will try and answer some questions and accusations that I see in your reply's thanks for you responses. I have admitted I cheated as well I know cheating is cheating that being said, I do feel there were some significant differences, I feel that my wife's was premeditated and that the quid pro quo was done to try and relieve her self of guilt. She knew that if offered the choice of the quid pro quo it would have been declined. The fact was her gf didn't even like me and when time for quid pro quo she declined it. I have to admit, I was not disappointed she did. I gave full disclosure of my cheating even gave info not asked. My wife gave detailed info of what occurred during her threesome. Which makes it harder to believe she doesn't know how the so called threesome came about with me. Betrayed H I couldnt say it any better { I think you will have to stress that you don't care much at all about what happened then as much as needing honesty from her now.} I have tried to just let it go but seem to be OCD about it. We are doing so well together now so I need to find a way to deal with it. I do have a possible recourse I do know who the man was and where to find him owns a buisness been tempted to confront him. Edited December 1, 2014 by OCD-Husband
NateGrey Posted December 1, 2014 Posted December 1, 2014 You both cheated on each other, why stay in the marriage? Your entire marriage was more or less a lie wasn't it? This is what it reads like, cheating on both sides, with lame excuses as to why both things happened. I'm just saying..do not think that because you both cheated that you are "even" and the problem is solved.
Chi townD Posted December 1, 2014 Posted December 1, 2014 I will try and answer some questions and accusations that I see in your reply's thanks for you responses. I have admitted I cheated as well I know cheating is cheating that being said, I do feel there were some significant differences, I feel that my wife's was premeditated and that the quid pro quo was done to try and relieve her self of guilt. OH! You mean that she had the threesome with her friend and her boyfriend, she felt guilty and set up that she would invite her to a threesome with you in order to even the score and she could let go of the guilt. She would think, "Okay, her boyfriend got a threesome and so did my man! Everything is right in the universe again!" Is this how I'm understanding it?
DKT3 Posted December 1, 2014 Posted December 1, 2014 I will try and answer some questions and accusations that I see in your reply's thanks for you responses. I have admitted I cheated as well I know cheating is cheating that being said, I do feel there were some significant differences, I feel that my wife's was premeditated and that the quid pro quo was done to try and relieve her self of guilt. She knew that if offered the choice of the quid pro quo it would have been declined. The fact was her gf didn't even like me and when time for quid pro quo she declined it. I have to admit, I was not disappointed she did. I gave full disclosure of my cheating even gave info not asked. My wife gave detailed info of what occurred during her threesome. Which makes it harder to believe she doesn't know how the so called threesome came about with me. Betrayed H I couldnt say it any better { I think you will have to stress that you don't care much at all about what happened then as much as needing honesty from her now.} I have tried to just let it go but seem to be OCD about it. We are doing so well together now so I need to find a way to deal with it. I do have a possible recourse I do know who the man was and where to find him owns a buisness been tempted to confront him. Do you think it was just the one time? I don't, I think her anger suggests that there is MORE. I guessing it was a running thing and she fears by talking about it, it will be revealed.
oldshirt Posted December 1, 2014 Posted December 1, 2014 If both of you are serious about staying together and working things out then I recommend professional counseling/therapy. These acts of infidelity may have taking place years ago but if you are just finding out about it now, it might as well have been last week.
petee Posted December 2, 2014 Posted December 2, 2014 Do you know if the friend's BF penetrated her? It could be that she drunkenly fooled around with her friend? As for going forward, well you need closure from her and this, otherwise time and time again you will veer straight back to this subject. Awkward! But you must ensure you are dotted and crossed before moving on. I don't see it as a massive issue to get beyond this, but you must get closure first. 1
Mr. Lucky Posted December 2, 2014 Posted December 2, 2014 I admitted to having a one night stand with the mother of our oldest son eleven years into our marriage we were drunk. Why the outrage and feeling you're owed some explanation? You cheated with an old GF and were seemingly willing to bang your wife's friend had she consented. You seem to feel the balance sheet somewhat lesser on your side. I don't get it... Mr. Lucky
Author OCD-Husband Posted December 3, 2014 Author Posted December 3, 2014 Petee, My wife was penetrated and he gave her a creampie, that brings me pain and some satisfaction at the same time as her girlfriends rules for threesome was he couldn't cum in her pussy. She was pissed off according to my wife. Mr. Lucky, why the outrage? I never agreed to a quid pro quo swap was never made aware of it because my wife knows my answer would have been no especially since I knew her gf didn't care for me. This was planned!! When all signs point to this being a setup and yet you are told sorry I have no recollection It makes it hard to forget and forgive and move on when you feel like they are not taking responsibility and seeking forgiveness for their actions. I would be able to say okay we agreed to clean slate move on had it been admitted too but being in the back of my mind, ugh you get the picture.
NateGrey Posted December 4, 2014 Posted December 4, 2014 Petee, My wife was penetrated and he gave her a creampie, that brings me pain and some satisfaction at the same time as her girlfriends rules for threesome was he couldn't cum in her pussy. She was pissed off according to my wife. Mr. Lucky, why the outrage? I never agreed to a quid pro quo swap was never made aware of it because my wife knows my answer would have been no especially since I knew her gf didn't care for me. This was planned!! When all signs point to this being a setup and yet you are told sorry I have no recollection It makes it hard to forget and forgive and move on when you feel like they are not taking responsibility and seeking forgiveness for their actions. I would be able to say okay we agreed to clean slate move on had it been admitted too but being in the back of my mind, ugh you get the picture. I think you just said the key phrase, this was planned by her. Why stay with her? You cheated, but then if it bothered her so much then she should of left, she doesn't get to setup a 3some behind your back and not tell you..all because you cheated. Also, the creampie thing is digusting, not the overall act, but the fact she did it with this creep while married to you..ugh, I can see why you are having problems. Honestly, I would of left, you cheated..but she set up some 3some and let some guy creampie her, just ewww..then she went back home to you after all this. Maybe this has been asked already, but when was the last time she was in contact with anyone from the 3some? Or is she still in contact with the female friend from it? For me even if I could forgive someone like this I would never be able to really enjoy sex with them again without getting nasty images in my head, I'd need to be really intoxicated to do it.
Selfish Posted December 4, 2014 Posted December 4, 2014 I think you are focusing on her cheating in order to downplay your own actions. I think you may be obsessing over a quid pro quo swap so you have the higher moral ground in this mess. That happened a long time ago. Not everyone has that great of a memory for what they were feeling in a given moment or even a motive. Or she convinced herself at the time that it wasn't a quid pro quo. 1
NateGrey Posted December 5, 2014 Posted December 5, 2014 I think you are focusing on her cheating in order to downplay your own actions. I think you may be obsessing over a quid pro quo swap so you have the higher moral ground in this mess. That happened a long time ago. Not everyone has that great of a memory for what they were feeling in a given moment or even a motive. Or she convinced herself at the time that it wasn't a quid pro quo. I don't see any downplaying, just a guy upset his wife set up a 3some and apparently didn't even use protection during it. It's skeezy.
Mr. Lucky Posted December 5, 2014 Posted December 5, 2014 I think you are focusing on her cheating in order to downplay your own actions. I think you may be obsessing over a quid pro quo swap so you have the higher moral ground in this mess. Agreed. OP, you opened this can of worms when you strayed with your ex. There's no "good" cheating or "bad" cheating, so I'm not sure why her act suffers in comparison to yours. I don't see any downplaying, just a guy upset his wife set up a 3some and apparently didn't even use protection during it. It's skeezy. Not sure whether it's intentional but quite the gender bias. Why aren't you asking him whether he used used protection during his ONS ??? Mr. Lucky
merrmeade Posted December 5, 2014 Posted December 5, 2014 I think DKT3's instincts are right. Sounds like it was such a shock to him - so out of the blue - the offer of the threesome. Plus there's no evidence one way or the other - that it was a one-time event or she's just decided to disclose that much and no more. But did the threesome that didn't happen end up being labeled "quid pro quo" only because of how it ended? I mean, maybe she wanted to see if it would 'take' and they were kind of hoping.
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