What is my league? How do I know?

[EasyHeart]

Your "league" is the women who will go out with you.

 

You figure out your league by asking women out. If they say yes, they are withing your league.

[d0nnivain]

Then how come pretty girls don't like me?

 

 

There is no way anybody on the internet can answer that Q for you. You need input from women close to you. Ask your mom, your sisters, a female cousin, your best friend's SO.

 

Are the basics there: clean, a smile, some confidence, politeness?

[PJKino]

There are definitely leagues and a competent guy is aware of where he stands, it helps him calibrate potential interest.

 

But you don't even know your league, because you have no experience...that's your problem, so essentially you have "no league" because you've never even swung a baseball bat at a baseball.

 

Without that experience and knowledge, you're going to have a hard time assessing what you're capable of getting...if you can't attract the 6's or average sally, you're going to have a hard time charming the likes of 8,9, or 10...that beauty you see walking down the street or at the mall that wouldn't even give you 2 seconds of her time, let alone a date.

 

Try your hand with women that you feel are within your same attractive level of looks...keep in mind that even if you are better looking and have more going on for you, that doesn't necessarily mean you are in the league of the average looking woman, as they will still have more options than you ever will.

 

Your league is a combination of your looks, personality, confidence and ability with women (social skills) and usually people in general.

 

Unfortunately looks have a lot to do with it, when you go out with a group of guys, it's usually the same guys pulling in the girls...it's never just random or unpredictable like you might be led to believe here where "no leagues" exist...the same guys are typically successful while the other guys are hit or miss or get lucky on occasion, therefore it's pretty obvious what league people are in through social interaction.

 

To increase your chances you'll need one on one time, especially if you're not the best looking guy ever...if the girl can find some redeeming qualities about you, then she may be inclined to develop more of an attraction to you...a sense of humor is a good one for that, but not always successful, you might still be too ugly for them.

 

This..

 

All my friends who do extremely well with women are also good looking..

 

This it's all about confidence thing is bs..that can only get you so far without looks..

 

As you said your average looking women especially old have slot more options then your average man so as a guy you have to standout just to get a women who's your equal looks wise..

[Imported]

I think it's good that OP is giving thought reasonable expectations, I've seen guys that feel like the fact that they're nice and funny entitles them to a model and when they can't get it they rage about how women don't want "nice guys".

 

.

 

 

But there's no leagues!!!

 

I like using Brad Pit or George Cloony as example because many people do as well. As in, those guys aren't good looking at all.

 

Which makes me wonder, what do the women look like that say this?

 

Google "elbows too pointy meme" if you don't already know what that is. Do you really think women are above doing similar judging? Guy's are more technical about pointing out the miniscule and ridiculous reasons why she is "2 out of 10 at best!", while women will give more obscure reasons like, "shallow, too into himself, seems like a..." all without the guy ever talking to her.

 

It's a form of auto-rejection.A preemptive rejection. I mean, there is no reason for the rejection because there was never going to be a chance anyway, but in her mind, she wasn't interested regardless. It's good for the ego.

 

average looking women especially old have (a)lot more options then your average man so as a guy you have to standout just to get a women who's your equal looks wise..

 

A lot of women are pretty silly. They say one thing and do another.

Edited November 14, 2014 by Imported

[Davey L]

This league thing is a load of nonsense. I'm not a good-looking guy but i dated some very attractive women in my youth including a model. As far as I can tell women don't seem to care what men look like.

[Lady2163]

Do I even have a league? Those are the questions I want to know. I've never dated anyone before and it seems like everyone is in a higher league than I am. Here's some stats about me: I'm about six feet, I think I dress alright, nice car, apartment by myself, somewhat on the skinny side but getting bulkier through exercise, well-read, try and do good grooming, make a good amount of money for what I do. I have never had a girlfriend or had sex, I am 24 years old. Unfortunately I don't consider myself that physically attractive. I have a great jawline but I can barely grow facial hair and some of my features don't add up.

 

So what league would you say I'm in and what features knock me down? I know that women consider guys more attractive the more women they're with, so I have that against me. Preselection is a major force stopping me. If there was some way to get over this, I'd be golden.

 

I wouldn't say league, but there are some possible,probable limits

 

1. Age range. Probably 19-29.

2. Super hot woman? Probably not, but they can be higher maintenance. Average to above average, decent teeth, nice hair, hwp body....definitely.

 

Which reminds me....that is one of the first things I look at in a guy, smile and does he take care of his teeth.

 

But, you need to know, you are bringing a lot to the table. Your height is good, your physique is good ( overweight men can have a tougher time than overweight women I finding a date). Financial status is important and it sounds like you are on the right tack there. No kids, you have a job and live independently. All positives and a plus.

 

You sound better than any guy I've dated in ten years.

 

Appearance wise....don't be afraid to use skin care products. I'm not saying go metrosexual, but keep your complexion nice.

[d0nnivain]

I like using Brad Pit or George Cloony as example because many people do as well. As in, those guys aren't good looking at all.

 

Which makes me wonder, what do the women look like that say this?

 

I'm one of the women who says Brad Pitt is not attractive. I'm no super model but I have just never cared for blondes. I also think he walks around unkempt too much (scraggly beard, messy hair etc.) It's just my opinion. It's not Gospel. Nobody has to agree with me.

 

It's not about what I look like. It's about pointing out that different people have different tastes. If you like chocolate ice cream but I prefer pistachio does that make one of us wrong? Of course not.

 

There are women out there who think men like Danny DaVito & Carrot Top are sexy. Do you honestly think Julia Roberts was in Lyle Lovellet's "league"? It's hard to imagine she dated or married him based on his looks.

[carhill]

What is my league?

Your league is the league of extraordinary gentlemen.

 

How do I know?

You'll know by the presence of those who respond positively to your kind invitations of social interaction and whom act in a manner brooking no doubt of their pleasure to be in your company.

[Imported]

It's not about what I look like. It's about pointing out that different people have different tastes. If you like chocolate ice cream but I prefer pistachio does that make one of us wrong? Of course not.

 

 

It is about what you look like as well in many cases. Google and read about "assortive mating" if you want. People usually find their own "level" and learn to appreaciate it as it is. They even learn to dislike people or traits considered a "higher level" and attach demeaning attributes to it.

 

And I do like chocolate ice cream! I think it's in a whole different league compared to pistachio ice cream. I bet there are more people out there that would prefer chocolate ice cream over pistachio.

 

Does that mean people who like pistachio ice cream is wrong? No, of course not.

 

It just means the market is much bigger for chocolate ice cream. Far more people out there will like it.

[d0nnivain]

Fine but I'm trying to give Mangina and Camaro Guy some hope & a pep talk to boost their self confidence. What are you doing and how will it benefit them?

[Imported]

It is better to know where you stand than to have a false sense of security.

 

I'd rather a doctor tells me I have 6 months to live, than spend 5 months blowing sunshine up my butt.

 

I will take facts over fluff anyday.

 

 

If they should be aiming "lower", then they should be aiming lower. I don't actually believe it is "lower", because I see plenty of people attractive or not, with wives/girlfriends, attractive or not, that are happy with each other.

 

Misery is going for women in "leagues" that will always reject you.

[leavesonautumn]

Fine but I'm trying to give Mangina and Camaro Guy some hope & a pep talk to boost their self confidence. What are you doing and how will it benefit them?

 

This is what's frustrating with trying to give advice with this issue. We try to make them feel better, give them tips, assure them that not all women want the same thing or same person. The response is "Yeah but...".

 

OP, I'm going to repeat everything that's been said so far: stop being so focused on being "what women want" and just be a polite, approachable person with basic hygiene and talk to people. Not just girls you want to **** or date. Tone your social skills, join a club, ask the women in your life for advice. You have a lot of great qualities. You're independent, you have ambition, you take care of yourself. Pay attention to how you approach women and if it's not working, change it.

[StanMusial]

If you're 24 and never had a gf nor had sex, the conclusion can only be that you are in a low league. Not even Sally league, hell below Appalachian league. Maybe you would be allowed to watch a Little League game. From the parking lot. So long as you stayed in your car.

[DrReplyInRhymes]

Please be aware with the stuff I'm about to say..

It's all my opinion, but can't easily sway,

I base my opinion off personal experience and such,

But I would be lying if I didn't also include other references and stuff.

 

Firstly, my friend, take a look at The Red Pill and read,

Spend the next few days digesting the USEFUL information to see,

The world you grew up in unfortunately is very feministic in view,

And in order to be a man of value, you have to change...well, you!

 

There will be women who disagree, the evidence is there.

If you have no luck with women, don't give up and despair.

Read through this gift that I give you, and see,

You can be that guy that gets the girl, but it isn't easy!

 

First you have to change your core beliefs and take the pill,

Change the views you grew up with, they are probably ill.

Re-invest in yourself, and change the habits you've made,

Then focus on yourself, and don't let your new habits fade.

 

The reason I support that forum so much,

is the experiences I've had, the women lives I touch.

Some could argue the validity of such for days,

But in the end, its the outcome that proves itself in praise.

 

There is some content that you certainly should disagree,

Choose what you want to read and to believe.

But you should find a pattern within the wealth of advice you get,

In order to change yourself from an unknown to a hit!

 

As a summary, I will tell you that this place will teach you to be,

A man of confidence, self-worth, high social value, and please,

When you gain this knowledge, do not run about and abuse it,

For it will be against the reason why you first started to use it.

 

If you can't be the guy that the women fall over,

You have to improve yourself in order to be their lover,

Show a woman a true man, with direction and passion,

And you won't have to worry about hypergamy in fashion!

[Camaro Guy]

You go after the ones you want and have to learn to deal with rejection. Just chat up the ones you find very attractive (looks & personality & lifestyle) and take note of the level of enthusiasm they display back. If you get get good vibes back keep it up and escalate up to making out/asking out. If you continually strike out then you'll have to expand the range of women you chat up to the point where they flirt back. Is the range of women you find attractive very limited. I thought you would sort of pick this up going to school/university/parties/after work drinks/bbqs/music gigs/clubs etc over the years in just chatting to girls even in mixed company.

 

 

I was pretty sheltered as a teen and it then cascaded into college for me. I got better in college but socially I was miles behind. I'm still making a great effort to do better.

 

Please be aware with the stuff I'm about to say..

It's all my opinion, but can't easily sway,

I base my opinion off personal experience and such,

But I would be lying if I didn't also include other references and stuff

 

 

I already know about red pill dating. I really don't like a lot of the stuff they preach. Though I can vibe with some of it, such as awareness about the reality of women.

Edited November 14, 2014 by Camaro Guy

[whatcanitellyou]

But there's no leagues!!!

 

I like using Brad Pit or George Cloony as example because many people do as well. As in, those guys aren't good looking at all.

 

Which makes me wonder, what do the women look like that say this?

 

Google "elbows too pointy meme" if you don't already know what that is. Do you really think women are above doing similar judging? Guy's are more technical about pointing out the miniscule and ridiculous reasons why she is "2 out of 10 at best!", while women will give more obscure reasons like, "shallow, too into himself, seems like a..." all without the guy ever talking to her.

 

It's a form of auto-rejection.A preemptive rejection. I mean, there is no reason for the rejection because there was never going to be a chance anyway, but in her mind, she wasn't interested regardless. It's good for the ego.

 

 

 

A lot of women are pretty silly. They say one thing and do another.

 

Women do stupid stuff and have ridiculous standards all the time. This poster just happens to be a guy so I was addressing guys, but a discussion about the stupid crap women do is a whole 'nother thread.

[whatcanitellyou]

This league thing is a load of nonsense. I'm not a good-looking guy but i dated some very attractive women in my youth including a model. As far as I can tell women don't seem to care what men look like.

 

Biggest misconception out there. Women care plenty about looks, but as has been pointed out different people have different standards so while YOU may not think you're attractive maybe these women did. You don't seem to think you're entitled to a model so if you got a few to date you good for you

[Phoe]

I say just go for who interests you, and if it continually doesn't work, take it down a notch in the "league", so to speak.

[Mangina]

There is no way anybody on the internet can answer that Q for you. You need input from women close to you. Ask your mom, your sisters, a female cousin, your best friend's SO.

 

Are the basics there: clean, a smile, some confidence, politeness?

Yes I'm very polite and respectful. I also dress nice and wear cologne. I don't think my mom or cousins have the heart to tell me the truth. I'm very thin and I don't believe I'm too ugly, but for some reason the women willing to date me tend to be plus size.

[lollipopspot]

Yes I'm very polite and respectful. I also dress nice and wear cologne. I don't think my mom or cousins have the heart to tell me the truth. I'm very thin and I don't believe I'm too ugly, but for some reason the women willing to date me tend to be plus size.

 

I don't know if the cologne is doing you any favors. Make sure it's very lightly applied, or don't wear it at all. A lot of people are sensitive to smells.

[leavesonautumn]

Yes I'm very polite and respectful. I also dress nice and wear cologne. I don't think my mom or cousins have the heart to tell me the truth. I'm very thin and I don't believe I'm too ugly, but for some reason the women willing to date me tend to be plus size.

 

Ah, so there are women who are interested in you but you're the one with the high standards. Interesting...

 

What do you consider plus size?

[Mangina]

Ah, so there are women who are interested in you but you're the one with the high standards. Interesting...

 

What do you consider plus size?

 

My last girlfriend was a size 22.

[whatcanitellyou]

Reality hits men very early in life when they hit on women that are sevens.

 

Ha ha, studies have shown that men tend to rate themselves a lot higher than women rate them. And media sends the message that guys can be fat and ugly but if they're funny supermodels will fall all over them.

[Mangina]

Ha ha, studies have shown that men tend to rate themselves a lot higher than women rate them. And media sends the message that guys can be fat and ugly but if they're funny supermodels will fall all over them.

 

Yes this is what I've been told my whole life that looks don't matter. I'm not sure if that's true.

[Camaro Guy]

This is what's frustrating with trying to give advice with this issue. We try to make them feel better, give them tips, assure them that not all women want the same thing or same person. The response is "Yeah but...".

 

OP, I'm going to repeat everything that's been said so far: stop being so focused on being "what women want" and just be a polite, approachable person with basic hygiene and talk to people. Not just girls you want to **** or date. Tone your social skills, join a club, ask the women in your life for advice. You have a lot of great qualities. You're independent, you have ambition, you take care of yourself. Pay attention to how you approach women and if it's not working, change it.

 

 

The only reason I say that is because I've seen a lot of evidence to the contrary. Guys with a lot going for them can still be dateless. I'm not saying I'm one of those guys but I've seen it and heard it.

 

I just wish this was all more clear cut.