jbrent890 Posted November 12, 2014 Posted November 12, 2014 (edited) Hello All, Long time reader and first time poster. I'm in a huge delimna right now. I have been married to my wife for five years. I recently discovered my wife had a ONS during our third year of marriage. She had no idea I was home and I overheard her talking on the phone with her sister. Once hearing I immediately called her out on it. She told me it was a drunken mistake and did everything in her power to not let that happen again including going to counseling. I then asked her why she didn't tell me about this and her response was because her counselor told her not to. Her reasoning was because it would have been her shifting the guilt onto me. I was so pissed after hearing that, I immediatley left and I'm at a hotel right now. I honestly wish she would have told me about the incident. Her lying to me for the last two years is why I'm considering ending the marriage. I honestly feel that the last two years have been a complete lie. I always wondered why she started trying harder in our marriage. My question is, "why do counselors tell WSs to do this?" Yes I would have been crushed if I heard this back then, but I would have preferred to have heard it at that time rather then years later. Sorry if there any grammatical mistakes. Like I said, I'm at a hotel and im typing this on my iPad. Edited November 12, 2014 by a LoveShack.org Moderator Paragraphs 1
jm2013 Posted November 12, 2014 Posted November 12, 2014 (edited) The real reason is because it was to be rug swept. It is obvious your wife still carries guilt about this incident if she's still talking about it years later. Perhaps from the counselor's logic they use the "it won't hurt them if they don't know about it" logic. On the affair bar your wife's affair may be a little easier to deal with than a LTA with love involved. Also, you should have never left your home. I did this as well and regret it. You should have asked her to leave if that is what you wanted. You did not do anything wrong. You shouldn't have to be the one forcing yourself out. Sorry you're going through this. Each person handles these events differently. Affairs are nasty man. My wife had an affair for over one year which was physical and emotional. The feeling of everything was one big lie is a very natural feeling. Edited November 12, 2014 by a LoveShack.org Moderator Redact quote
carhill Posted November 12, 2014 Posted November 12, 2014 You have no idea what her counselor told her unless you were in the room. Remember, trust but verify. In general, people lie, maybe not all the time and maybe not most of the time, but sometimes, when it benefits them. Also, in general, people who cheat/deceive/have affairs lie about the process or are, at minimum, 'creative' with the truth. Welcome to LS. I'm a fMM. Walked a bit of this path. Tip: Presuming the statement about the counselor's advice is true, always remember that an IC (individual counselor) looks out for, and works, what's in the best interest of their client, even if it is detrimental to others, either purposely or incidentally. An IC could care less about your M. The person in front of them is the priority. A marriage counselor is different. In MC, the marriage is the client and the counselor tasks both parties to achieve health in the M. My exW and I worked my A in MC. Pretty brutal stuff. Last tip: Be decisive but think things through. Pick the hill you want to die on. Make it count. Good luck! 4
misty12 Posted November 12, 2014 Posted November 12, 2014 I know of several counselors who have advised this, and the line of thinking is that telling the spouse is in the self interest of the person who cheated and not the spouse. It allows the cheater to rid themselves of the burden of guilt while devastating the spouse. It is one of two schools of thought regarding the issue, and I think there is validity to both telling and not telling. 1
Author jbrent890 Posted November 12, 2014 Author Posted November 12, 2014 I guess I can somewhat understand that reasoning, but I feel that is just the cowards way out. That was my right to know. For her to take that away from me is just as selfish as the cheating itself. At this point, I'm more upset at the fact that she lied than the fact that she cheated. God knows how im going to feel when that sets in. And you're right, I should not have left. At that point in time, I was afraid as to what I was going to do. I have never been that angry before. 2
Realist3 Posted November 12, 2014 Posted November 12, 2014 I know of several counselors who have advised this, and the line of thinking is that telling the spouse is in the self interest of the person who cheated and not the spouse. It allows the cheater to rid themselves of the burden of guilt while devastating the spouse. It is one of two schools of thought regarding the issue, and I think there is validity to both telling and not telling. The above is very true. Regardless of the overwhelming positions you read about on here about coming clean, it is not a settled issue in the counseling world. Last I read it was about 50-50 telling or not telling, even LTA's. 3
Friskyone4u Posted November 12, 2014 Posted November 12, 2014 Marriage counselor are practicing a subjective skill. Not quantitative. If you tell the same thing to ten of them, you will get at least five different opinions. For all you know , her IC person had been involved in infidelity and gotten away with it. There have even been cases where they have told women about Ashley Madison website that have been posted and suggest r an affair because they had done it. You will never find out why her therapist told her not to tell you or the reasoning behind it from a professional viewpoint. But one thing you really have to focus on is that the therapist suggested she not tell you but your wife is the one who made the final decision not to be honest with you. Do not blame shift on to the other person. Your wife is the villan here. She is the one who had sex with another man and did not tell you. 2
whichwayisup Posted November 12, 2014 Posted November 12, 2014 Hello All, Long time reader and first time poster. I'm in a huge delimna right now. I have been married to my wife for five years. I recently discovered my wife had a ONS during our third year of marriage. She had no idea I was home and I overheard her talking on the phone with her sister. Once hearing I immediately called her out on it. She told me it was a drunken mistake and did everything in her power to not let that happen again including going to counseling. I then asked her why she didn't tell me about this and her response was because her counselor told her not to. Her reasoning was because it would have been her shifting the guilt onto me. I was so pissed after hearing that, I immediatley left and I'm at a hotel right now. I honestly wish she would have told me about the incident. Her lying to me for the last two years is why I'm considering ending the marriage. I honestly feel that the last two years have been a complete lie. I always wondered why she started trying harder in our marriage. My question is, "why do counselors tell WSs to do this?" Yes I would have been crushed if I heard this back then, but I would have preferred to have heard it at that time rather then years later. Sorry if there any grammatical mistakes. Like I said, I'm at a hotel and im typing this on my iPad. Are you sure it was a marriage counselor and not a regular therapist? A marriage counselor is to help save a marriage, it's for a couple. A therapist is paid for services to advise what is best for their 'one' client, married or not. You have time on your side to sort this out. Go to counseling with her, GO talk to this therapist if he/she is a real marriage counselor. Or find another one. You're in shock, rightfully so and your trust/faith in her has been shattered. 2
whichwayisup Posted November 12, 2014 Posted November 12, 2014 I guess I can somewhat understand that reasoning, but I feel that is just the cowards way out. That was my right to know. For her to take that away from me is just as selfish as the cheating itself. At this point, I'm more upset at the fact that she lied than the fact that she cheated. God knows how im going to feel when that sets in. And you're right, I should not have left. At that point in time, I was afraid as to what I was going to do. I have never been that angry before. She was scared of the consequences, the fallout and probably thought you'd leave her right away. Was it really just a one time thing? Do you know this guy? Go talk to her when you've calmed down and get the whole truth. Tell her she has to come clean about everything even if it hurts you, she has to answer all your questions. 1
drifter777 Posted November 13, 2014 Posted November 13, 2014 Yes, there is no standard way that therapist's handle this situation. And for you, it doesn't matter. I mean, she lied to you every day by allowing you to believe that your marriage vows were still intact. In my case, my wife had a ONS and a 3-week, live-in affair with separate guys. At the time I did not see one act of cheating as more painful then the other. Decades later I feel the same way. Some men say that they could forgive a ONS as a "mistake" or whatever. I always wonder what those guys really would do if their wife announced she cheated with someone at the bar last night. Of course there is a difference between a ONS, a full-on affair, or your wife throwing it in your face and just starting up a relationship with another man. All different situations but I don't believe the sexual component or the level of betrayal is much different. She decided she wanted to have sex with some other guy. In the case of a ONS, after the BH is able to focus on things after d-day, he immediately thinks "how many other times did this happen?" and "why won't this happen again?". From my standpoint the shattered trust from a ONS might be worse than from other kinds of cheating. Random things like a ONS are the most difficult events for human's to handle. How can you ever trust your that your wife won't do it again? How do you know that this is not just who she is? When is the next knife in the back coming? You didn't see this one coming so how can you ever know that another one isn't headed for me right now? I think leaving was the best thing you could have done. She can't manipulate you with tears and sex if your not with her. You should also try hard to end all contact with her until you are sure you are ready to talk with her. Take this time to think about what she did and whether you think you can ever accept her again. Find your own counselor and focus on your own recovery. Right now your relationship is secondary because if you can't heal then your marriage can't heal. 2
badkarma2013 Posted November 13, 2014 Posted November 13, 2014 The real reason is because it was to be rug swept. It is obvious your wife still carries guilt about this incident if she's still talking about it years later. Perhaps from the counselor's logic they use the "it won't hurt them if they don't know about it" logic. On the affair bar your wife's affair may be a little easier to deal with than a LTA with love involved. Also, you should have never left your home. I did this as well and regret it. You should have asked her to leave if that is what you wanted. You did not do anything wrong. You shouldn't have to be the one forcing yourself out. Sorry you're going through this. Each person handles these events differently. Affairs are nasty man. My wife had an affair for over one year which was physical and emotional. The feeling of everything was one big lie is a very natural feeling. I Agree ...i am sorry...but most WWs here have no idea of the devastation they cause.. THE TRUTH DOES NOT DESTROY ANYTHING....YOUR Lies ,Deciet and Betryal destroyed the marriage....YOU MADE A CHOICE NOT A MISTAKE...and passed hundreds of Red Flags blowin ing the breeze before the actual sex acts took place... I would want to know.... anything less ,,,you are a coward and a cake eater.. All of us BS here must remember...Do not ever confuse Forgiveness with Reconcilition...For they are not the same thing! 2
AlwaysGrowing Posted November 13, 2014 Posted November 13, 2014 Bottom line....whether or not the IC community is divided 50/50 or not....it isn't their right to determine what others should/should not know about their life. Most of the division is based on there not being a standard in the IC community. Not all have the same breadth of knowledge/experience in dealing with infidelity. All experts in the field agree on one point though....if the sex was unprotected the BS deserves to know 100% of the time. No one has the right to play Russian roulette with another's very life. Maybe schedule your own appt with the same IC and ask their opinion on why a spouse would withhold such important information about your own life...while others were informed ie IC, sisters, friends, OM....ETC. 3
Striver Posted November 13, 2014 Posted November 13, 2014 If you are going to cheat and not tell, I think you should be prepared to take it to the grave. Obviously that does happen, but in this case and others it slips out or is discovered years later. Probably the worst case scenario would be like the movie About Schmidt, where the wife cheats and the husband doesn't find out until the wife has died. I don't know if it is better to cheat and never tell, never be discovered than some other things. Maybe if the cheating caused the WS to be a better spouse. My guess is that doesn't happen too often, the WS probably becomes a worse spouse even if they are not caught. My WW is leaving me, told me up front, but we have kids together so it's not like the fact that I was told about OM is any great consolation.
road Posted November 13, 2014 Posted November 13, 2014 Counselors only care about making their client feel good about themselves. They do not care about the effects any of what the WW's is doing to their marriage.
thirtysomethingteen Posted November 13, 2014 Posted November 13, 2014 I've never cheated, but I went to a counsellor after developing feelings for a man who isn't my husband. My counsellor also told me that I SHOULD NOT tell my husband. Who knows what your wife's counsellor's reasoning was, but mine was looking out for my interests as her patient, and mine alone - my husband and the other man's wife and kids were not her patients. But I think it's a cop out to blame the counsellor - they can't force anyone to do or not do anything, only advise what they think is the best course of action. Sorry you had such a horrible shock OP - stay strong and know that it will get easier.
Realist3 Posted November 13, 2014 Posted November 13, 2014 Bottom line....whether or not the IC community is divided 50/50 or not....it isn't their right to determine what others should/should not know about their life. Most of the division is based on there not being a standard in the IC community. Not all have the same breadth of knowledge/experience in dealing with infidelity. All experts in the field agree on one point though....if the sex was unprotected the BS deserves to know 100% of the time. No one has the right to play Russian roulette with another's very life. Maybe schedule your own appt with the same IC and ask their opinion on why a spouse would withhold such important information about your own life...while others were informed ie IC, sisters, friends, OM....ETC. They are asked for advice and they give it. It has nothing to do with rights of the IC. It has everything to do with the decision the person receiving that advice decades to do with it. It is really no different than this board. Advice flows like the river Nile from all different angles on here, but ultimately in the person seeking advice to make the decision. I think it is a pretty crappy excuse for his wife use the IC as reasoning for HER DECISION.
Clay Posted November 13, 2014 Posted November 13, 2014 I feel horrible for you OP. I hope you have family and friends to help you through this. I would not get to caught up with the counselor. It was your wife's choice to cheat. Just like it was her choice to hide it. Sadly its clear she did not care for you or your health. People that genuinely feel bad for the horrible choices they make own up to them right away. If she really felt bad about it you would have known right away about it. In the end who really cares why she hit it. No answer she will give you will ever make the pain go away. If you choose to reconcile with her your in for a horrible ride. Some people are successful in reconciling. I have found in my experience there are far more repeat cheaters than there are people that only do it once. So the odds are not in your favor. Sure we would all like the believe the person we love is better than that but clearly they are not. They would have never put you in this horrible position in the first place if they were. Clay
AlwaysGrowing Posted November 13, 2014 Posted November 13, 2014 They are asked for advice and they give it. It has nothing to do with rights of the IC. It has everything to do with the decision the person receiving that advice decades to do with it. It is really no different than this board. Advice flows like the river Nile from all different angles on here, but ultimately in the person seeking advice to make the decision. I think it is a pretty crappy excuse for his wife use the IC as reasoning for HER DECISION. Okay....the use of the word right was not correct. An IC should have provide clear consequences of both choices...tell/not tell. They should not have given a "you should not tell your spouse". I think that an IC should be held to a different standard than those on a forum such as this. They are after all getting paid for it.
painfullyobvious Posted November 13, 2014 Posted November 13, 2014 Maybe I missed it but in what manner was she describing the one night stand to her sjster? The context would be important because if she was detailing the one night stand to her sjster positively this would be red flags to just leave. If she was describing regret and guilt to her sister than I could bestow reconcilation. I did not read all the comments so I'm sorry if I missed the context
Realist3 Posted November 13, 2014 Posted November 13, 2014 Okay....the use of the word right was not correct. An IC should have provide clear consequences of both choices...tell/not tell. They should not have given a "you should not tell your spouse". I think that an IC should be held to a different standard than those on a forum such as this. They are after all getting paid for it. I agree, a IC should not tell anyone what they should do. It is kind of hard to hold them to a higher standard because they are independent agents with little consensus of thought on thorny issues such as this. And let's take a step back, we really don't know what this particular IC told her, or if he/she even recommended the action she chose to take. It is an excuse.
Author jbrent890 Posted November 13, 2014 Author Posted November 13, 2014 Thanks for the responses. They have really helped a lot. My wife has been calling and texting constantly. In one of her texts she actually had the nerve to say "don't do something stupid." As it stands, I'm not responding to her texts or calls. I'm considering giving her a call tomorrow but for the time being I need to process all of this. 3
SawtoothMars Posted November 13, 2014 Posted November 13, 2014 Thanks for the responses. They have really helped a lot. My wife has been calling and texting constantly. In one of her texts she actually had the nerve to say "don't do something stupid." As it stands, I'm not responding to her texts or calls. I'm considering giving her a call tomorrow but for the time being I need to process all of this. Do know her counselor? I'd go give that f*cker an earful. Otherwise... the way I see it, bad advice or not, it was her choice to hide this from you. She HAS to be held accountable. This goes double for if you try to reconcile because she is clearly a sneaky b*tch... and you can print this thread out and read it to her. Also... "don't do something stupid"... What the hell is that supposed to mean? Is she worried you are going to slit your wrists in the bathtub like some loser? I guess I'm just wondering what stupid people think is stupid.... because up to this point she is the only one who has done something "stupid" What does your financial situation look like? 1
lolablue17 Posted November 13, 2014 Posted November 13, 2014 I feel so sorry for you. But I think you know the reason and maybe you would have given the same advice your self to one of your friends in the same situation. She cheated! It's done! To tell or not to tell? If she tells you it can ruin your M. If she doesn't, It's a lie and it's wrong but because of the nature of the cheating - ONS, if she hides it, your marriage can be saved. It's a matter of risk management. If she kept her mouth shut you wouldn't be aware of it for ever. So after the cheating all you can say is that she should have handled it better. I think you're angry about the cheating! the "not telling" thing is a minor side effect.
lolablue17 Posted November 13, 2014 Posted November 13, 2014 (edited) You are soon about to be under a massive attack by her and her family and friends. They will all try to twist the reality and blur things, causing you to doubt about simple facts, like, to know if a day is really a day or a night is really a night, or "does the sun really shine every morning". They will challenge the basic logic of the human mind. You appears to be a very intelligent man, with strong integrity. Dont let them! She will cheat again every time you will be away. her needs for male attention will only grow during life and marriage. When she has to raise kids, she will not like her new body after pregnancy, you wont have too much free time because you'll have to provide your family. Imagine how lonely she'll feel and how strong will her need to boost her ego and self esteem be. She'll definitely need other male attention. And the dilemma will be very easy - Because the line was already crossed long ago. Because she learned that if she cheats, you forgive her... it happened before. So, to cheat again its not a big deal. Just imagine... I was simply describing your possible future with her... I think you know it's over. Edited November 13, 2014 by lolablue17
lolablue17 Posted November 13, 2014 Posted November 13, 2014 You are soon about to be under a massive attack by her and her family and friends. They will all try to twist the reality and blur things, causing you to doubt about simple facts, like, to know if a day is really a day or a night is really a night, or "does the sun really shine every morning". They will challenge the basic logic of the human mind. You appears to be a very intelligent man, with strong integrity. Dont let them! She will cheat again every time you will be away. her needs for male attention will only grow during life and marriage. When she has to raise kids, she will not like her new body after pregnancy, you wont have too much free time because you'll have to provide your family. Imagine how lonely she'll feel and how strong will her need to boost her ego and self esteem be. She'll definitely need other male attention. And the dilemma will be very easy - Because the line was already crossed long ago. Because she learned that if she cheats, you forgive her... it happened before. So, to cheat again its not a big deal. Just imagine... I was simply describing your possible future with her... I think you know it's over. This post belongs to another thread. Sorry for my mistake.
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