Risky A behavior in an OK marriage

[Minnie09]

I have read tons of threads on here, and what I read all the time is that it is very common that the OM talks about his M in a very, or at least somewhat negative way. They have no sex, no connection, are a bad match ....... you name it. He basically NEEDS to have a side-piece, because his M is so bad and his W is a bad W, a bad sexual partner, a bad emotional partner, boring, she's just about the kids, etc. (justification).

 

So - mine is the exact opposite. He NEVER talks about her. Ever. He talks about his kids, and what they do, and what they say, and about his extended family, and about his friends, ....... but never about his W. He does mention, though, thay "they" are invited here and there, that "they" (or sometimes he just says "I", even if the family and/or she's with him) go on vacation, and what they did on the weekends etc. But there's no wife bashing. No bad sex complaints. No complaints at all really.

 

He mentioned only once that he didn't really WANT to get married when he did. It somehow happened (a long long time ago), and he has been with her ever since (more than two decades), never cheated (which I somehow cannot believe), and that if it weren't for the kids, he wouldn't be with her. Yeah whatever. Blah blah. But that was more of a side remark following a very emotional discussion about us being together for real, and I said to him that it's all good the way it is and we don't have to change anythig at this point. Because I am okay with the situation the way it is, and his M seems to be working okay.

 

I mean I never ask, either, but it's just such a contrast to all the other guys I read about on here. What's his deal? Does he think he doesn't need to play the bad W card, because I am there anyways? He treats me very well, I almost want to say he invests in me. He talks about a future together all the time, he has a lot of ideas for our "future" ........ and says all the time that he loves me, but yeah I am skeptical. I know he likes me and that there's a lot of passion and fun, but that's just not real life. What he also does is keep in constant communication, no matter where and with whom he is. I cannot understand how that works, either. It is constant. Almost too much for me. How can she (or anybody for that matter) not notice. I am starting to believe he has no wife LOL............I know it's easy to sneak out to send a quick text without being caught, but so many times? Like all the time. And I do reply occasionaly, so how's that safe?

 

This guy has become a mystery to me. The longer I know him the less I can believe what he's doing and I cannot understand how he gets away with it.

 

I am not complaining, btw. I am a willing participant and I enjoy our time together and all the attention. But I was married before, too, and I could have never gotten away with that much activity on the side. At some point some family member will take a glance at your phone or computer, or somebody will "need" a number that only you have saved in your contacts, or somebody will need to borrow your phone quickly, because they left theirs in the car, or they ask you "who are you texting"...... or something.

This has been going on for a while, 1+ years, and it has been that way almost since the beginning. So weird. It is almost like he wants to get caught, however, his M seems fine. And as I said: he never complains. And I am sure that it wold be over between us quickly, if she found out, so I am somewhat concerned about our constant communication thing. I like things the way they are.

 

Maybe he has this attitude that he's above everybody else, and smarter than everybody else, incl. his family members, so he can do whatever and they won't know either way? He seems humble and nice, when he's around me, so I don't get the feeling that this is the way he thinks about himself, but I don't know anymore.

 

OK, sorry about the lengthy, long-winded post. I am just doing better when I write it all down. Thanks.

[Realist3]

I rarely if ever talk about my wife or marriage to my MW, and the same goes for her in return. What is the point but to vent? It just brings a negative light on the person. There are always two sides to every story, and talking about someone who can't present their side doesn't present a true picture of what is going on.

 

IMO, the guys who do choose to talk down their wife and or marriage are using it to play the sympathy card, which is very very effective. I'm not suggesting they are making it up, a lot of the reasons/excuses you read on here are legit issues that make people decide to stray from their marriage.

 

In a number of ways your post could describe me.

[anika99]

Why can't you ask him these questions? There is really no way for strangers to know why he can spend so much time texting you but if it's just texting I don't think that's really all that difficult. He doesn't have to sneak out of the house to text you. He might text you from the bathroom, or from the kitchen or living room while his wife is in some other room or he might text you right in front of her while telling her that it's work related or a buddy of his.

 

 

That's the beauty of texting, as it really doesn't take much out of ones daily life. You can be fully engaged and involved in one activity and still fire off some texts to someone who's not there. It takes so little effort to text. Since he doesn't discuss his wife with you, you don't really know much about her. Maybe they spend a lot of time apart, maybe they work opposing shifts, maybe she spends as much time texting her friends as he spends texting you so it doesn't seem odd to her, maybe she trusts him 100% and it would never even cross her mind to consider he might be having an affair.

 

 

I think the best person to ask would be your MM.

[Minnie09]

@ Realist: How much do you communicate, though, and is the intensity and/or frequency of your communicattion with OW the same when you're at home with your family?

[Bittersweetie]

I never talked about my H with xOM. Part of it was my compartmentalization, but mostly because my A was all about me. I wanted xOM to be interested in ME ME ME...why bring my H into it??? I didn't have kids at the time, so I don't know about that, but xOM did. He did talk about his kids a bit, and never his wife, except to say she didn't appreciate him......of course then he went on to say his girlfriend didn't appreciate him either...:sick:. So I think it may be more about selfishness than anything else, JMO.

[Minnie09]

@ Anika: I have asked him this once or twice. He just replied that nobody usually touches his phone, or his computer, so no issues there. Still......to me it's risky behavior, but I am probably used to a different approach. My exH used my phone, I used his. Just because one phone was closer than the other, and the other person didn't want to go get their own device from a different room. Stuff like that. But you're right of course when you say it's easy to send a quick text. It takes like 10 sec.

[Michelle ma Belle]

Honestly, why do you care so much?

 

If you've got the man and you're fine with your arrangement, why do you care that he's not bashing his wife in front of you "like all the other men"?

 

Quite frankly, his wife and his life outside of your arrangement is really none of your. You're together for a specific reason. You're his extra-marital lover not his therapist.

[whichwayisup]

The longer I know him the less I can believe what he's doing and I cannot understand how he gets away with it.

 

He is very good at manipulating and is a great liar. That's what it comes down to. He's able to separate his affair with you and his married life. It's called living a double a life. He's a selfish farce actually and since you're totally okay with this, then enjoy your affair for as long as it lasts. He future fakes with you, tells you what you want to hear - That what if or one day we'll be together our life will be ..etc..etc.. Just enough to give you hope, but he knows he isn't leaving and divorcing his wife.

 

He gets away with it because he can!

[whichwayisup]

@ Anika: I have asked him this once or twice. He just replied that nobody usually touches his phone, or his computer, so no issues there. Still......to me it's risky behavior, but I am probably used to a different approach. My exH used my phone, I used his. Just because one phone was closer than the other, and the other person didn't want to go get their own device from a different room. Stuff like that. But you're right of course when you say it's easy to send a quick text. It takes like 10 sec.

 

He's given no reason for his wife to mistrust him. He's good at lying, as I said in my other reply to you. He's given her no reason to doubt him and why should she suspect? She loves him and trusts him. They live their life as a couple, do family outings, sleep in the same bed, have sex , why should she be suspicious if he's on his phone. It takes less than a minute to send a quick text, or for him to leave the room for a few minutes. I doubt she's watching his every movement, wonderin what he's doing on his phone.

[stillmind]

You said you like things as they are, I imagine he likes things as they are too. You seem content to be his OW for now, so he can talk about what-ifs with you without having to make good on his promises. If you start making noise and demanding to know if he has a timeline for leaving I bet the "oh my terrible wife poor me" stories will start to flow.

 

You seem happy with the situation, he is happy with the situation, he sees no need to complain or convince anyone of anything.

 

I'm curious, do you want a future with him or are you happy with the relationship as it stands?

[GypsumSatellite]

I have read tons of threads on here, and what I read all the time is that it is very common that the OM talks about his M in a very, or at least somewhat negative way. They have no sex, no connection, are a bad match ....... you name it. He basically NEEDS to have a side-piece, because his M is so bad and his W is a bad W, a bad sexual partner, a bad emotional partner, boring, she's just about the kids, etc. (justification).

 

So - mine is the exact opposite. He NEVER talks about her. Ever. He talks about his kids, and what they do, and what they say, and about his extended family, and about his friends, ....... but never about his W. He does mention, though, thay "they" are invited here and there, that "they" (or sometimes he just says "I", even if the family and/or she's with him) go on vacation, and what they did on the weekends etc. But there's no wife bashing. No bad sex complaints. No complaints at all really.

 

He mentioned only once that he didn't really WANT to get married when he did. It somehow happened (a long long time ago), and he has been with her ever since (more than two decades), never cheated (which I somehow cannot believe), and that if it weren't for the kids, he wouldn't be with her. Yeah whatever. Blah blah. But that was more of a side remark following a very emotional discussion about us being together for real, and I said to him that it's all good the way it is and we don't have to change anythig at this point. Because I am okay with the situation the way it is, and his M seems to be working okay.

 

I mean I never ask, either, but it's just such a contrast to all the other guys I read about on here. What's his deal? Does he think he doesn't need to play the bad W card, because I am there anyways? He treats me very well, I almost want to say he invests in me. He talks about a future together all the time, he has a lot of ideas for our "future" ........ and says all the time that he loves me, but yeah I am skeptical. I know he likes me and that there's a lot of passion and fun, but that's just not real life. What he also does is keep in constant communication, no matter where and with whom he is. I cannot understand how that works, either. It is constant. Almost too much for me. How can she (or anybody for that matter) not notice. I am starting to believe he has no wife LOL............I know it's easy to sneak out to send a quick text without being caught, but so many times? Like all the time. And I do reply occasionaly, so how's that safe?

 

 

My MM began without a shred of M negativity. We were just friends. I enjoyed hearing the softness in his voice when he spoke of his W and kids. He sounded much as I sounded when I spoke of my then BF. "Something's missing" but nothing harsh.

 

It took him a while before he unleashed his other feelings. "I never wanted to get married but she wouldn't have kids without a ring." and lamented a little about how unmatched they were sexually and interests-wise and how if he hadn't already been so old by the time they settled down, he'd have kept being a bachelor. If he could have had kids without having an M and not being on the hook to a woman, he'd have been happy. And yet their wedding day photo that hangs in their foyer is nothing but ear-to-ear grins.

 

It would go through cycles. He'd go a long time without uttering anything about his W (actually pretending in a way that he was a single dad raising his kids) and then a week would pop up when suddenly she was the worst choice he ever made and the kids were "hers" not "theirs".

 

I don't know if yours will ever change his tune and began badmouthing his M or W. I didn't expect it out of mine and I don't tolerate it when he starts in on it. I re-direct the conversation and point out her strengths and the happy M they seem to have. That annoys him, but it reminds him of his place. It also reminds me of mine and how happy I am that I'm not M to him.

 

Mine also said I was his first AP. I later found out about (at least) one more from years previous. Don't be surprised if you ever uncover one. If he never felt he should have been married, someone else has been there to keep him warm before.

 

As for why he never worries about being caught? Mine calls me every day now. Why hasn't his W put the kibosh on that when she knows who I am and that no client of his is a years-long one? It's because he can charm her still. He can make a plausible excuse for darn near everything and he's used some of those tactics on me. It's only when I catch him in a lie with my own two eyes he has no way out... but he's good. He's also very confident in his abilities to get out of trouble. That's all his stories are about - how he got out of this that or the other by luck or charm or ability.

 

Pay attention to his stories. Pay attention to how he talks about women in general. Pay attention to anything his says that is a 'slam' of his W. It's one thing how a man may talk with his buddies and griefing about their M and it's another thing when they inundate their OW with the same stories. One is just whining and the other is seeding hope that the M may end.

[Minnie09]

You said you like things as they are, I imagine he likes things as they are too. You seem content to be his OW for now, so he can talk about what-ifs with you without having to make good on his promises. If you start making noise and demanding to know if he has a timeline for leaving I bet the "oh my terrible wife poor me" stories will start to flow.

 

You seem happy with the situation, he is happy with the situation, he sees no need to complain or convince anyone of anything.

 

I'm curious, do you want a future with him or are you happy with the relationship as it stands?

 

Yes, I am quite content at the moment. I have never been in a relationship like this (if you can call it that), I only know how to be in an official LTR and/or M, but right now I enjoy being free and independent, being able to pay my own bills, make my own decisions, living by myself (bliss), and I just don't feel like I have the time or energy for a full-time R. I do enjoy a quality person, though, that I can get to know better and better, it is kind of like being in a committed R, just not full-time. Like a part-time job that leaves you more time to pursue other things. It works for me right now. It might not forever, though. And then I'll have to let him go and be completely on my own, or I'll have to make a real effort to find a committed partner who comes as a total package.

[Quiet Storm]

He's probably very good at compartmentalization. He could be a guy that thinks men are entitled to "extra", even if he has a good marriage. Some men are like this, and often come from families or cultures where cheating is just accepted as what men do - it's seen as OK as long as they keep it discreet and don't embarrass their wife by flaunting it.

 

An example of a cheater like this would be the character of Tony Soprano. He always cheated, regardless of how he felt about his wife, and compartmentalized the different parts of his life. He was husband/family man at home, but had multiple GF's throughout his marriage. Many professional athletes are also like this- they don't cheat because they have issues with their wives or marriages, they just feel entitled to supplement their marriages with other women. So men like this probably feel no need to justify their cheating or offer explanations, because in his mind, he deserves a wife and a mistress.

[Minnie09]

Mine also said I was his first AP. I later found out about (at least) one more from years previous. Don't be surprised if you ever uncover one. If he never felt he should have been married, someone else has been there to keep him warm before.

 

Yes, I have never believed my MM when he said that I'm his first. He seems way too laid back and "experienced" (also sexually). Nonchalant and almost blasé, when it comes to juggling the two worlds, his many activities, a demanding job, and an active social and family life. A "newbie" couldn't do that. If I were him, I would be on the verge of losing it every other day. It would just be too much to handle. But maybe guys are different. What do I know? That's basically why I am here. I know nothing.

[Realist3]

@ Realist: How much do you communicate, though, and is the intensity and/or frequency of your communicattion with OW the same when you're at home with your family?

 

We communicate a lot. We have had somewhat of a stormy year so far, so it ebbs and flows. There are days where it is all day long into the wee hours of the night, and there are days where it may be 10 minutes, and some rare days nothing. After 5 years it is mainly just topical/situational stuff anyway nothing really Earth shattering unless we are having a disagreement or one of us pushes the other's button in the wrong way.

 

Intensity? That is not really affected by family being around on a day to day basis. I don't watch TV so I am usually in my home office tending to business stuff I'm involved with. Certainly, there are times when I can't, but it is not too often.

[Realist3]

@ Anika: I have asked him this once or twice. He just replied that nobody usually touches his phone, or his computer, so no issues there. Still......to me it's risky behavior, but I am probably used to a different approach. My exH used my phone, I used his. Just because one phone was closer than the other, and the other person didn't want to go get their own device from a different room. Stuff like that. But you're right of course when you say it's easy to send a quick text. It takes like 10 sec.

 

Same here. Nobody touches my stuff. Plus my wife knows about my affair so there really is no curiosity about it.

[Minnie09]

Same here. Nobody touches my stuff. Plus my wife knows about my affair so there really is no curiosity about it.

 

Well, that's a whole different ball game then, isn't it?

Unless my MM's W knows, too, and I am just not aware of that.

[Realist3]

Well, that's a whole different ball game then, isn't it?

Unless my MM's W knows, too, and I am just not aware of that.

 

It certainly is, but it is very easily accomplished wither way. My MW messages me when she is right next to him in bed, the living room or at a restaurant.

 

I don't know how long your situation has been taking place, but obviously he is not too concerned about it, so if I were you I would just roll.

[AlwaysGrowing]

The most effective built in tool that WS use is Truth bias.

 

When one gets to the point of being married, we usually have already deemed the other partner as safe...truthful to us...loyal...etc.

 

So everyday interactions do not get bogged down in verifying if what they other is saying is indeed truthful.

 

That is why the red flags do not go up so easily.

 

It is NOT that his BW does not notice his texting. ...it is that his BW trusts him....when he says "it is work", "it is joe", etc etc....

 

In essence...he is using her love/trust for him AGAINST her. His BW herself is the tool he uses.

 

Not very nice...is it.

[Poppy47]

Why don't you make the effort and find a decent person right now? You can find somebody nowadays who will be happy to have a LTR with you and not intrude on your freedom. YOu no longer have to get married or live together, you know.

 

This one is beginning to dissatisfy you or you are falling in love with him. Otherwise you wouldn't be asking so many questions.

 

I did what you are doing for a while after my husband died. I was not in a frame of mind to look for another partner and I kept telling myself this was ok for a while.

 

It turned out to be the worst decision I have ever made. I got further and further involved with xMM and found it very painful to extricate myself.

[still_an_Angel]

Maybe your MM has a ready excuse at home (for the W) so it just normal for him to be texting or to be on his computer all the times. Its most probably a work reason, and he has to be in constant touch because of work issues. And the W believes this so she doesn't question anything. Another is she may not be techy person so MM has no fear of her seeing anything because she doesn't pry into his phone or computer.

 

Me and my MM don't normally text because we both have kids who are able to check our phones. But it does feel freaky sometimes when I get an email response within minutes because I certainly don't hang around checking my own email myself. He sends me a smiley when he wants me to check my email asap. All our texts are coded so we know which mode of communication should the other check asap). We avoid texts because his W might pick up the frequency of messages. I'm also ID'd with a generic name on his phone.

 

Just ask him about it and remind him of safety at all times.

[Minnie09]

Why don't you make the effort and find a decent person right now? You can find somebody nowadays who will be happy to have a LTR with you and not intrude on your freedom. YOu no longer have to get married or live together, you know.

 

This one is beginning to dissatisfy you or you are falling in love with him. Otherwise you wouldn't be asking so many questions.

 

I did what you are doing for a while after my husband died. I was not in a frame of mind to look for another partner and I kept telling myself this was ok for a while.

 

It turned out to be the worst decision I have ever made. I got further and further involved with xMM and found it very painful to extricate myself.

 

Sorry to hear.

 

I could probably do that (find somebody else), but honestly, I don't have the time to look, and also I am typically not attracted to anyone. This one has been growing on me over time, and we get along just fine, in all aspects. Yeah, falling in love.....maybe. But it's not mature love. We have no daily routine. It's more a childish, passionate kind of infatuation. I'd rather be alone than actively date and/or look around for someone else, to be honest. It has to come really easy, otherwise it won't happen.

[Sassy Girl]

My MM rarely speaks about his wife, but hen he does its situational stuff i.e. what they are up to on the weekend, their holiday, funny conversations they have etc. He talks about his kids a fair bit more.

 

 

He never speaks of her negatively, except to say some of the things we do in "our time" he has missed as he hasn't done in years. I take it with as grain of salt. I assume they are still intimate - married men like to have sex with their wives. I don't ask, so he doesn't feel he has to lie.

 

 

What is clear is that this is definitely his first full blown affair. He is definitely not experienced at this. Its also clear that he loves his wife, and his life. Is he being selfish? Sure.

 

 

We communicate a lot. We have the same interests.

We catch up about one a week and its always fun. But we know family time is family time and our time doesn't cut into that.

[gettingstronger]

For my husband it was my trust and the fact I treated him like an adult that allowed him to violate our marriage with an affair. He had strict rules for her- no contact after 4 pm (unless he was out of town on business which is every T-TH) or on weekends or holidays or vacations. I am unclear how she had time to call and text him in the evenings when he was out of town. It is one of the things that really bothers me (and he feels terribly about)- the fact that he used my trust in him against me-

 

She "was" a lot like some on here that claim to be just fine with the rules, that the A rules were mutual and she was fine about them-in the end, her being untruthful with herself and what she wanted and complying just to keep him was her undoing. She stalked my FB page during our annual 2 week stay at our ski house over the holidays and fell apart. She texted him over and over and he did not respond. She ended up outing him with an anon text to me- I checked his phone and she had sent him a sexy text about 1 minute after sending the anon text to me-

[jellybean89]

People text all the time...main form of communication. No one uses my phone and I've never asked anyone to use their phone. My phone has my numbers, not my partners phone. It really isn't that big of a deal to be texting with someone all the time. Not sure why it is so shocking to you.