Author Topaze Posted March 16, 2005 Author Posted March 16, 2005 Originally posted by Mz. Pixie Topaze, In a perfect world we probably wouldn't judge people by any factors other than what is on the inside. There are probably alot of men who didn't like it that I have a juicy booty- but thankfully my bf does! I think this is a real issue for you perhaps because you've been rejected recently? Have you thought about IC for this issue? I think I've seen three threads about this same thing. If someone's not interested in you- then it's THEIR problem, not yours! No I haven't been rejected recently but I have certainly faced a lot of rejection during my life as the result of growing up and living in a White community. I have also seen people's lives distroyed and their self-esteem severely damaged because of this type of thing. Finally, marriages and family life are in trouble in North America today. I think we have to seriously re-think how we are approaching things as clearly, the approach that is now popular, is just not working.
Author Topaze Posted March 16, 2005 Author Posted March 16, 2005 Groovy, you have raised some excellent points.
Donut Posted March 16, 2005 Posted March 16, 2005 I'm sorry Topaze but I see three different threads on racial discrimination in dating here started by yourself. Yes it exists, no denying that. But as I said in my original post attitudes are changing, we are becoming a multi - cultural world. Change like this takes decades. We've come a long way so far. I know personally quite a few inter-racial couples and I'm from a small town in England. I think you are over killing this now.
tanbark813 Posted March 16, 2005 Posted March 16, 2005 Originally posted by Pocky You don't get it and I'm not sure you're going to get it. I think the people you're quoting would be ashamed of how you're using their words that fight discrimination against others to imply that you have a right to force individuals in a lifestyle they do not agree with. How is there a difference between the people that shun those in interracial relationships and the people that shun those that don't want interracial relationships? Your problem is that you're turning a personal decision regardless of whether it's based on personal preference or racial discrimination into a social issue. It is not a social issue. The story you quoted stated that two people were ostracized for their choices. They were ostracized because they decided to date outside their race. I don't recall anyone stating that an individual didn't have the right to date outside their own race. I don't recall anyone denying anyone else the same rights as someone from another race. What this story states is that everyone has the right to make their own choices of who they date regardless of which race they are from. What this story states is that everyone has the same rights as someone else regardless of their race. What you are saying is that people are not allowed to make their own choice of who they want to date based on race. What you are doing is denying the right that people have died for. What you are doing is denying the right that many African-Americans died for in order to have. You are denying people their personal rights - the very personal rights you claim are so important. You want to compromise the right to live ones own life the way they see fit because you disagree with their decision. You are no different than the person that ostracized someone because they are in an interracial relationship. You are your own enemy because you fight for the very thing you support. Well said. It's just too bad Topaze isn't capable of comprehending it.
WhereSpiritsRoam Posted March 16, 2005 Posted March 16, 2005 Originally posted by Topaze Finally, marriages and family life are in trouble in North America today. I think we have to seriously re-think how we are approaching things as clearly, the approach that is now popular, is just not working. A divorce rate over 50% in the U.S. is a serious problem. We may be good at a lot of things in this country, but choosing life partners is not one of them. It's hard to think most folks take marriage seriously when the majority of them wind up as memories in dusty scrapbooks.
Author Topaze Posted March 16, 2005 Author Posted March 16, 2005 I did one thread on race and people kept bringing in personal preferences that weren't relevant to race so I started one on personal preference. When I did the one on race I didn't know I could post articles to back up my points so I am doing it now.
Barby Posted March 16, 2005 Posted March 16, 2005 But what are you hoping to accomplish by this? What are you attempting to do? This is an advice forum!
Beth Posted March 16, 2005 Posted March 16, 2005 Topaze, are you trying to discuss how individuals today, and society as a whole views interracial couples and their offspring? Or how individuals choose whom they ask out / accept as a date?
GirlDown Posted March 16, 2005 Posted March 16, 2005 i think she is trying to convince everyone that there is a correlation between the two. it's disguised as different topics throughout LS-land, but it's all about the same thing. obviously, though, dating is a personal preference which cannot be enforced by laws (except of course, in regard to age.) Topaze, do you think you should be able to take someone to court for not dating you because they don't prefer to date your race based on personal preferences? wow, what a mess the courtrooms would be. but maybe the nerds/dorks/geeks/convicted murderers/carrot tops of the world would get a date if they jumped on the bandwagon to sue people into dating them because it's "unfair" not to.
GirlDown Posted March 16, 2005 Posted March 16, 2005 Originally posted by Barby But what are you hoping to accomplish by this? What are you attempting to do? This is an advice forum! oh, but she is giving advice, barby! she is teaching us how not to be so closed-minded by dating people we would do not normally prefer physically.* *this includes race only. all other attributes, including but not limited to hair/eye colour, body odor, general breath foulness, facial and breast symmetry, length/girth/smoothness, etc, are still subject to the individual and may be preferred and chosen at your own discretion with no consequence.
Hund1976 Posted March 16, 2005 Posted March 16, 2005 The government should pass a law called the equal opportunity dating act. That way if someone turns down a date you can take them to court and sue them for discrimination. That would solve so many problems.
Author Topaze Posted March 16, 2005 Author Posted March 16, 2005 Originally posted by Beth Topaze, are you trying to discuss how individuals today, and society as a whole views interracial couples and their offspring? Or how individuals choose whom they ask out / accept as a date? Hi Beth: I see the issues as two sides of the same coin. It's about acceptance, attitudes and perceptions. How one views people as other races will have an impact on who they ask out/accept as dates and how the offspring are treated. Remember one of the main reasons people give for not supporting interracial dating is because of the impact that it will have on the children. I wish that I had known in my original thread that I could post articles and surveys, etc. as it came across as my personal opinion only. I want to encourage people to look at the historical context and the broader implications and significance of this issue in our society today. This goes far beyond personal preference. Something related to this is looks discrimination...there is a direct correlation between who people perceive as "attractive" and who they hire promote, etc. The same man who says "I don't find Black women attractive" for dating purposes is also likely to discriminate against Black women in the workplace. A number of studies have shown this. I don't plan to go into detail about this in this thread but I just want to show that this topic has very broad and very deep implications. I think it's worthy of a civil and objective discussion without the personal inuendos and put downs. Topaze
tokyo Posted March 16, 2005 Posted March 16, 2005 It seems that 50 years people who were interested in interracial relationships had no problems finding each other, even when they ended in court. If people are interested in you, they will try to date you, if they are not, then it's not meant to be.
Author Topaze Posted March 16, 2005 Author Posted March 16, 2005 Originally posted by Hund1976 The government should pass a law called the equal opportunity dating act. That way if someone turns down a date you can take them to court and sue them for discrimination. That would solve so many problems. I don't think that's realistic but you raise an important point. Unfortunately, it has taken legislation to break down racial barriers in all other spheres of life in North America . In effect, the Government did this when they removed the anti-miscegination laws from the books. At one time in the not too distant past people could go to jail for this type of thing. I didn't realize that one state Alabama I believe had these laws on the books until something like 1998. It took a public referendum to get rid of it and it barely passed.
GirlDown Posted March 16, 2005 Posted March 16, 2005 one thing that needs to be pointed out i think is this... even if it made you racist...which it DOES NOT, so what? racism may be ignorant, but it's not illegal, and you can't change people's opinions when they aren't interested in changing them. so if i was a racist, then you don't get to tell me not be. if i'm not harming you or anyone else, and my beliefs don't conflict with yours because i keep them to myself, you can't do anything about it. that's about it.
tanbark813 Posted March 16, 2005 Posted March 16, 2005 Originally posted by Topaze The same man who says "I don't find Black women attractive" for dating purposes is also likely to discriminate against Black women in the workplace. That could not be further from the truth and it is insulting to assume that of people.
GirlDown Posted March 16, 2005 Posted March 16, 2005 Originally posted by Topaze [/] Something related to this is looks discrimination...there is a direct correlation between who people perceive as "attractive" and who they hire promote, etc. The same man who says "I don't find Black women attractive" for dating purposes is also likely to discriminate against Black women in the workplace. A number of studies have shown this. I don't plan to go into detail about this in this thread but I just want to show that this topic has very broad and very deep implications. I think it's worthy of a civil and objective discussion without the personal inuendos and put downs. Topaze that is such crap. and there are laws against that, anyway... but no laws about dating. and i think if anyone would have considered a different race before, you are rapidly changing their minds. congratulations on accomplishing the exact opposite of what you wanted.
tokyo Posted March 16, 2005 Posted March 16, 2005 Originally posted by Topaze Remember one of the main reasons people give for not supporting interracial dating is because of the impact that it will have on the children. Sometimes it's just about looks. And people when they choose a partner are allowed to worry about anything they want. You can also not force someone to marry another person who has some hereditary disease that might be passed on to his children. You simply can't force people to chose a certain partner if they don't want to. Originally posted by Topaze Something related to this is looks discrimination...there is a direct correlation between who people perceive as "attractive" and who they hire promote, etc. The same man who says "I don't find Black women attractive" for dating purposes is also likely to discriminate against Black women in the workplace. A number of studies have shown this. I don't plan to go into detail about this in this thread but I just want to show that this topic has very broad and very deep implications. Leave "black" outside and you will see it's still same situation that any not so attractive woman has to face. There's really no reason to bring the race issue on the table.
PatientOne Posted March 16, 2005 Posted March 16, 2005 After following these threads on Racism/Preferences, I have to agree with Pocky. Topaze has put forth her points and that's that. Which is fine- she's certainly entitled to her opinions. I strongly suspect however that what may have started a legitimate theory has devolved into baiting the other LSers. It's one thing to make a statement and ask for opinions, but when anything other than the Original Posters opinion is given, its summarily ruled out as irrelevent or ill thought out. I would, however like to pose an honest question to Topaze, namely: Have you ever in your life turned down anyone for a date? If so, by the rules you've set up, you are a racist. It doesn't matter why you turned them down, it's racism. If not, you're a very openminded person. Or desperate, I'm not sure which. I know nothing said here will change your mind, but at least try to understand why most people here disagree with you. Try to see their point of view. I'm just hoping you aren't the sort of person that screams "RACIST" when someone steals a parking spot from you. I've dealt with some, and those folks are obnoxious.
Author Topaze Posted March 16, 2005 Author Posted March 16, 2005 Actually, I was wrong. The vote to amend the Constitution of the State of Alabama and lifti he ban on intteracial marriage was November 7, 2000: http://www.sos.state.al.us/election/2000/general/amendlang.htm
GirlDown Posted March 16, 2005 Posted March 16, 2005 Originally posted by PatientOne I'm just hoping you aren't the sort of person that screams "RACIST" when someone steals a parking spot from you. I've dealt with some, and those folks are obnoxious. right f*cking on. so what would our new and improved personal ads look like? "one person seeking another person which is not myself .............................."
Author Topaze Posted March 16, 2005 Author Posted March 16, 2005 Again, let's try to keep this discussion focused on the issue and not turn it into something personal. I will answer your question briefly so that we get past that red herring Have you ever in your life turned down anyone for a date? Yes, I have turned down many dates for a number of reasons but it has NEVER had anything to do with race which is the focus of this thread. I know nothing said here will change your mind, but at least try to understand why most people here disagree with you. Try to see their point of view. I do see theire point of view but I disagree with it and so do experts in this field. I'm just hoping you aren't the sort of person that screams "RACIST" when someone steals a parking spot from you. I've dealt with some, and those folks are obnoxious. I agree. Folks like that are obnoxious. If anything, I am criticized by my friends of all races for missing and not noticing racial put downs unless it is "in my face". I don't walk around focusing on the issue of race in my life. That's why when it hits me in the face it's such a shock and disappointment. Anyway, let's not make this personal. I think it would be fruitful to discuss some of the quotes that I have posted and material from some of the links. Please read them with an open mind and share your reactions highlighting specifics. If you have articles from experts in the field and researchers backing up the "personal preference not racism" POV, I would love to have a look at them and discuss them too if you post quotes and a link so that we can see the original source.
blind_otter Posted March 16, 2005 Posted March 16, 2005 Originally posted by WhereSpiritsRoam Do you think we were superficial back in the days of the cavemen? Probably not. I think we feel there are so many "fish in the sea" and believe we can always catch the right one. That's a noble supposition, but it does make us kind of selective in who we choose as our partner. I would like to go back to a point in time where all that mattered were the basic fundamentals - love and physical attraction. Somehow it doesn't quite seem that simple these days. See those websites i posted. Cavemen were ultrasuperficial.
Author Topaze Posted March 16, 2005 Author Posted March 16, 2005 Originally posted by WhereSpiritsRoam A divorce rate over 50% in the U.S. is a serious problem. We may be good at a lot of things in this country, but choosing life partners is not one of them. It's hard to think most folks take marriage seriously when the majority of them wind up as memories in dusty scrapbooks. The most tragic part of this whole mess is the impact on the children.
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