writergal Posted November 4, 2014 Posted November 4, 2014 bz42: Tonight I would discuss getting your name put on the lease. Then contact the landlord tomorrow and make time to go in and co-sign your lease but only AFTER the 4 of you agree on equal share of rent paid. If he has a bigger bedroom than all 3 of you, then he needs to pay more. It's only logical. Focus on that right now. Don't go in guns blazing about your fears regarding the male college friend or that will definitely make your girlfriend shut down. But if it bothers you, then definitely say something to her but differently than you have in the past, when she's ignored your concerns (which are valid b/c two guys like the same girl).
Author bz42 Posted November 5, 2014 Author Posted November 5, 2014 Ok, writergal told me I should post this. It is an update to last night + additional information about what I've seen and felt. So, last night I decided not to do anything rash, and I didn't have a "talk with her or him". I did however, bring up the fact that moving out seemed like the best idea to me. I told her I have been looking at studio apartments so I could move out. She said, "You want me to move out with you, don't you?". I said, "I'd like that, but I can't force you to do anything, and that our relationship is of top priority in my life and this is what I feel is best for it". The guy, and one of the other roommates have both threatened to move out. The guy, for guilt trip purposes to make my girlfriend be on his side about the rent issue. Everyone pays the same amount, he has the biggest room, one of the girls has the smallest rooms and he is saying he can't adjust rent and pay more or he'll have to move out. This is another guilt trip thrown onto my girlfriend to get her on his side and to make her start caring about him more. Anyways, whenever the discussion of this other roommate moving out or him moving out, she seems to get really sad and she says that she doesn't want anyone to move out and wants everyone to be happy. But, I know in a way she doesn't want him to move out for obvious reasons, and that she got so used to living with him and him always being around. But anyways, she started looking at studio apartments with me online, commenting on them, and she even suggested we widen the search range. So, I think she is with me on this. She said that 1) she hates moving, 2) she would have to find someone to sublet (which is a huge pain). So that's that. Now that I'm thinking about how upset she gets with the thought of this guy moving out, that leads me to another point. I remember a few times, in the past we would go to a nice undiscovered park or something and she would say things like, "Oh, I should tell *my guy friend* about this place, it's so close to his work", or we would be somewhere eating and she would say something like, "last time I was here was with *my guy friend* and we both got blah, blah, blah, etc." Also, right in the beginning of us meeting, I asked if we could go to the beach for July 4th weekend and she said that it was a good idea. After a few days, she started to not commit to the idea, saying that she needed to check with *her guy friend* because last July 4th, they both went to the beach at his parent's house and she wanted to make sure they weren't doing that again. She ended up going with me to the beach on July 4th weekend, and then she went with him the weekend right after. She left Saturday morning, and came back Sunday afternoon. I was not living with her then, so I was at home and when it was around 10pm, I called her since we talk on the phone every night, except this time I felt that she didn't really want to talk and just kind of wanted to get off the phone really quick. This doesn't necessarily mean they hooked up or anything, but maybe that she just wanted to not be rude or something. Anyways, these little things have happened in the past where I feel as though I have to almost fight for her. This does not happen anymore, since we live together and she does not hang out with her guy friend anymore. Unless, we are all in the kitchen or something then she will respond to his conversations and kind of leave me out of the conversation, which is mostly his idea. She wouldn't do anything like that to me on purpose. But, there definitely is some attachment issue between the two or some really close friendship bond that is definitely getting in the way of our relationship together. As far as my situation right now, with all the little details I gave you what do you think I am dealing with? I know these two have been friends for a long time, but a while ago I found a notebook that I was using for work and I saw a little note that she had put in the notebook, almost like an entry to a diary. Anyways, it said something like, "my guy friend tried to get into my pants tonight and I stopped him because I was on my period, and I don't know if I would let it happen but it very well may happen. This is what I have always wanted, even secretly while I was with my last boyfriend. I think I should try to talk to him about it, but I don't know how it's going to work since I will be studying abroad for 6 months soon and he is doing something in school that occupies most of his time." My question to you is, what do you think is going on between these two? Is it a relationship that probably should have happened, but for more than a few reasons, didn't have the chance at that time? And, if so what am I to do about this? What am I dealing with here? I don't think these two can be just friends like this, I think there will always be some romantic feelings for each other. I do believe that they have never had sex before. I mean when she broke up with her last boyfriend, he got "more flirty than his usual self" and that's when they "made out", during that time in her life but I feel as though she kind of always meets someone and nothing happens between the two. On a last note, my girlfriend does not like PDA (Public Displays of Affection), and I guess some people just don't. Anyways, whenever any other people except for him are around, she is like kind of okay with it. When he is around, for example when it is just us three in the kitchen or something, I will kind of test her and go up to her and give her a hug or a kiss. I see that before she commits to kissing me, she will quickly glance over at him to kind of make sure he is not looking. And even after our brief kiss or hug, I will feel her kind of pushing away a little like she is uncomfortable. This is present around everyone, but I feel it is a little more prevalent when he is around. Any thoughts/opinions are greatly appreciated. Thank you all for helping me so much.
Author bz42 Posted November 5, 2014 Author Posted November 5, 2014 She has not ever had sex with him. I know this. She doesn't usually give affection in front of anyone. I don't know I guess some people are just like that. I have always known her to be more reserved and really shy. But yeah, I feel that when I try to kiss her and stuff in front of him, that she tends to not want to show as much affection in front of him. I also feel that whenever he is around her, I feel him almost staring at her in my peripheral vision. I also feel that he tries to "run into" her around the house.
heartshaped Posted November 5, 2014 Posted November 5, 2014 Sigh. Sounds like they both have feelings for each other beyond friendship that are unresolved. If I were in your shoes I'm not sure what I would do because this isn't going to a good place. Even if she restricts her friendship with him it doesn't mean she won't still have these feelings for him in her head.
Author bz42 Posted November 5, 2014 Author Posted November 5, 2014 Yes, I understand this. I love her, she loves me. She tells me all the time. We talk about moving across the country and roadtripping together before settling across the country. She also said there is nothing left for her here anymore. My question is what can I do? What can I say? Anything?! Anything I should avoid saying or doing? and vice versa?
heartshaped Posted November 5, 2014 Posted November 5, 2014 Well I would wait until your living situation was stable before doing or saying anything, but then I would ask her about the journal entry you found and about her feelings for this friend. I would basically tell her everything you've told us here about how you feel she cares too much about what he thinks and how he feels, etc etc. but I wouldn't do any of this until your living situation was secure. 1
Omei Posted November 5, 2014 Posted November 5, 2014 I would put all worries about this man and your GF on total hold. Your biggest concern is getting on the lease or moving out with or without your gf. This very moment you have nothing at all on your side from them just booting your ass out onto the street, you have zero say in your living conditions. The fact that you live in a house with 4 people on a lease without you being on it if they tire of you and this drama they could all very well just rid of you, this is your main concern right now who cares about the extra. Worry about going homeless first fix the drama later 1
Author bz42 Posted November 5, 2014 Author Posted November 5, 2014 Okay guys, I appreciate all the responses. As far as moving out, yes that is now my top priority. I am already looking at a place tomorrow. Could very well be moved in by this weekend. Like I said, I am actively looking for a place to call my own. Right now, I am considering leaving on my own, but assuming that I have my own place to live OR get on the lease at this place, what is my best plan of action? I agree that this behavior is damaging to our relationship and that I would like to ultimately resolve the issue. She has invested some time into looking at apartments with me, like we did last night and we also talked a bunch about moving across the country and we spend 2 hours planning our road trip. I do believe that she is fully committed to me, but I just don't like the fact that this guy is so important in her life. For whatever reason he is, maybe he was there for her in a time of need? Like when she broke up with her boyfriend, and he was there to "try to take advantage", although it didn't work well for him. Also, I feel as if this guy is the primary initiator of communication between the two. My question is, without losing the girl, what is the most efficient way in going about this situation? Thank you all.
Omei Posted November 5, 2014 Posted November 5, 2014 How do you know this? I have had sex with every girl that I have ever stayed with, even the ones that are "just friends" or roommates. One of those girls is now married, and she swears to her husband her and I have no history so that he won't mind the fact that we are friends. Her behavior towards you should not change in front of this guy. His presence is damaging to your relationship, yet she is allowing it to continue. Big problem. Not every girl opens her legs like the ones in your world lol I have 2 male friends that sleep over at times and I haven't even so much as kissed them. It is possible she could be telling the truth about it.
Author bz42 Posted November 5, 2014 Author Posted November 5, 2014 I understand what enigma is saying, and I agree. You can't always be completely sure. What I do know, is my girlfriend and I trust her. But enigma makes a good point, I am sure throughout the years they have most likely made out a few times, and I can almost guarantee he has made moves on her, but it never escalated into sex. My girlfriend told me all of her sex partners, of which there are 3 others. 1)Ex-boyfriend, 2) guy that just wanted sex, 3) 1 night stand, and 4) is me.
Author bz42 Posted November 5, 2014 Author Posted November 5, 2014 Yes Omei, I have had my share of experiences with all types of girls, and I don't necessarily mean sexually. This girl is NOT the girl who just has sex with everyone, one of the reasons why she is so great in my opinion.
Omei Posted November 5, 2014 Posted November 5, 2014 Okay guys, I appreciate all the responses. As far as moving out, yes that is now my top priority. I am already looking at a place tomorrow. Could very well be moved in by this weekend. Like I said, I am actively looking for a place to call my own. Right now, I am considering leaving on my own, but assuming that I have my own place to live OR get on the lease at this place, what is my best plan of action? I agree that this behavior is damaging to our relationship and that I would like to ultimately resolve the issue. She has invested some time into looking at apartments with me, like we did last night and we also talked a bunch about moving across the country and we spend 2 hours planning our road trip. I do believe that she is fully committed to me, but I just don't like the fact that this guy is so important in her life. For whatever reason he is, maybe he was there for her in a time of need? Like when she broke up with her boyfriend, and he was there to "try to take advantage", although it didn't work well for him. Also, I feel as if this guy is the primary initiator of communication between the two. My question is, without losing the girl, what is the most efficient way in going about this situation? Thank you all. There isn't going to be any magical solve She either moves in with you and you continue or she doesn't and you still continue. She has made it very clear this long term friend is here to stay You only have to ask yourself 1 question do you wanna stay in a relationship with this girl and her friend is apart of that clearly or do you wanna leave? Those are the only choices you have. The outcomes you're hoping for where they suddenly are not friends anymore and you live happily ever after isn't one of those options.
Omei Posted November 5, 2014 Posted November 5, 2014 (edited) Sure, it's always possible. I'm just skeptical of these types of situations, and for good reason. By the way, you and I live in the same world. Surely you are aware that is an expression commonly used. We do live in different worlds yours is different than mine it's a saying. Edited November 5, 2014 by Omei
writergal Posted November 5, 2014 Posted November 5, 2014 bz42 if you think you can handle living under the same roof as this guy, then at least get your name put on the lease. But if you know things between you two will only escalate the longer you both live under the same roof, then I think moving out is a wise choice. That said, like others have pointed out to you, you can't force her to give up her friendship with this guy without consequences. She may resent you for giving her an ultimatum, where you ask her to choose. If you move out, you risk losing her to him. If you stay put, the risk doesn't change if she harbors feelings for him that she isn't being honest with you about. I'm not a fan of blind faith either, as enigma32 pointed out. But if you move out, you will definitely have to rely on the blind faith that your girlfriend remains faithful to you if she refuses to find a subleaser for her portion of the rent, and continues to live with her guy friend. Obviously, the best outcome is that she moves out to be with you but that remains to be seen. I thought you said neither of you could really afford to move since you just finished college and had low wage jobs right now?
Author bz42 Posted November 5, 2014 Author Posted November 5, 2014 Yeah enigma, I agree with you. And omei, if this long term friend of hers is here to stay like you said, why is she actively talking about and planning our move across the country. Like she said previously, "There is nothing left for me here". I feel as though if something was left for her here, her long term friend would definitely be a factor in her deciding to move across the country to a place where she will possibly not ever see him again.
Author bz42 Posted November 5, 2014 Author Posted November 5, 2014 That's true writergal, basically it looks like I'm in a lose lose type of situation. If she chooses me, she'll resent me. If not, this relationship problem will continue. I feel like the only thing left for me to do is to ultimately break up with her, and hand her over to this guy that she may or may not even end up being with? That does not look very bright for me. But like I said she is willing to move across the country with me, so that being said I feel like she has already chosen to be with me. What I am looking for is the most efficient way to handle the situation. As someone previously responded in this thread, "it sounds to me as if she is torn between you two in the fact that there are unresolved feelings between the two of them". That is what I feel to be the most accurate depiction of what I am going through and was wondering if there was any way to resolve those feelings between the two and to keep this girl committed to me and only me.
Omei Posted November 5, 2014 Posted November 5, 2014 (edited) Yeah enigma, I agree with you. And omei, if this long term friend of hers is here to stay like you said, why is she actively talking about and planning our move across the country. Like she said previously, "There is nothing left for me here". I feel as though if something was left for her here, her long term friend would definitely be a factor in her deciding to move across the country to a place where she will possibly not ever see him again. She can move away and still be friends with the guy I keep trying to get you to stop being naive with the thought of her falling so in love with you that shes going to give up a friend of 7 years I am saying your choices are accept their friendship and be with her or don't and not be with her. People move from friends all the time they may not hang out anymore but they will def keep contact. Edited November 5, 2014 by Omei
Author bz42 Posted November 5, 2014 Author Posted November 5, 2014 I'm assuming at this point, a talk between the three of them, a talk between just my girlfriend and I, and a talk between the guy and myself are all out of the equation?
writergal Posted November 5, 2014 Posted November 5, 2014 She can move away and still be friends with the guy I keep trying to get you to stop being naive with the thought of her falling so in love with you that shes going to give up a friend of 7 years I am saying you choices are accept their friendship and be with her or don't and not be with her. People move from friends all the time they may not hang out anymore but they will def keep contact. I'm with Omei on this one. You can ask her to move out with you but it's not likely she'll give up her friendship with that guy, especially since they lived together for 2 years before she met you. So you have choices to make: Accept their friendship and continue to date her if you know you want to be with her for the rest of your lives. Don't accept their friendship, give her an ultimatum that it's him or you, which results in a breakup (most likely), then you are stuck without a place to live as well as no more girlfriend. If she has reassured you that she wants to be with you, then maybe you need to believe her until she proves you wrong. And try to ignore her male friend and just focus on your relationship together and see what happens. 1
heartshaped Posted November 5, 2014 Posted November 5, 2014 I'm assuming at this point, a talk between the three of them, a talk between just my girlfriend and I, and a talk between the guy and myself are all out of the equation? For now. Secure your living situation and then talk to your girlfriend. I wouldn't talk to this other guy (there are two people in your relationship and he's not one of them) and I wouldn't continue to live with him either. I don't think there necessarily has to be an ultimatum, but I think you need to find out where your girlfriend's head is at regarding him (after you move out). At the very least, you both sound very young and she doesn't sound mature enough to establish boundaries in her male friendships. I'd worry that even if she cut off this friendship with this guy what's to stop her from starting another friendship like this in the future? It's clear from what she wrote in her journal entry you discovered she wanted to be with him even when she was with her last boyfriend. She needs to learn how to establish boundaries, but sadly you can't make people mature or be committed to you and only you. 1
Author bz42 Posted November 5, 2014 Author Posted November 5, 2014 What I would ideally like to do, is accept the friendship and remain with this girl for the rest of my life. What I also believe is that his physical presence, her seeing him and him seeing her almost every day is making it near impossible for her to let go of any idea of him. If you were trying to move on from an ex-boyfriend/girlfriend and had to remain living in the same house as them, I think as though you would almost never be able to let it go, which in turn affects your current relationship with your boyfriend/girlfriend no matter how much you love them. To me, it sounds like she has made up her mind. In the end, I think she came to the conclusion that she ultimately wants to be with me and she is content on that. But, whenever her guy friend steps into the picture, she is reminded of her romantic feelings for him, which ultimately stunts our ability to grow together in our relationship. My goal is to get her out of living distance with this guy, so she doesn't have to be constantly reminded of her feelings for him on a day to day basis. Any other thoughts before I decide on a plan of action on how to deal with this situation? Any strategies/tactics I can use to help her realize that I am the top guy in her life, and there is no room for him in the romantic picture? I don't know. What I think about her guy friend: I think he is generally a nice guy, but I believe that he is very calculating, manipulating, and selfish (ie. he will screw people over, including my girlfriend for his own gains). I feel as though he has been babied growing up, and if he doesn't get his way every time, he acts by guilt tripping people into agreeing with his way or being angry.
Author bz42 Posted November 5, 2014 Author Posted November 5, 2014 (edited) Also, I asked her to give me a definitive answer on moving out with me. Her response was, "I guess I don't really have a definitive answer this soon after you telling me...I have a lot a lot a lot of hesitations." I'm pretty sure what she means is: 1) She is scared that she will ultimately be responsible for the rent for the remaining term of the lease. Financially, she does not want that to happen. 2) She is afraid that she will not be able to find a subletter (Apparently, the subleaser would have to not be someone random like on craigslist according to the landlord, so someone we know). I don't know if this helps, but she just messaged me that response when I asked her if she would give me a definitive answer. Edited November 5, 2014 by bz42 additions
writergal Posted November 5, 2014 Posted November 5, 2014 Well it sounds like you have your answer: she doesn't want to move out right now. How do you feel about her wanting to stay put? And since your name isn't on the lease and the landlord won't rent to someone on Craigslist, then you may want stay there a little longer. If you do, we've all recommended to you, to get your name added to the lease. But if you are wanting to move out December 1st, then obviously don't bother with that.
Author bz42 Posted November 5, 2014 Author Posted November 5, 2014 See, I do get that having my name on the lease serves a greater purpose. Although, assuming I do have my name on lease, what different is my plan of action at that point. Let's just assume for everyone's sake that I do get my name put on the lease. Does anything change? Does your guys' advice change or is there something else that can be said now with said assumption of my name being on the lease? Also, I understand her for not wanting to move out right now. Moving is a hassle, and there are a lot of factors that come into play especially in this situation that could really screw a lot of things up. So for risk's sake I agree. This doesn't necessarily mean she is choosing this other guy over me at this point. Thanks all.
writergal Posted November 5, 2014 Posted November 5, 2014 See, I do get that having my name on the lease serves a greater purpose. Although, assuming I do have my name on lease, what different is my plan of action at that point. Let's just assume for everyone's sake that I do get my name put on the lease. Does anything change? Does your guys' advice change or is there something else that can be said now with said assumption of my name being on the lease? Also, I understand her for not wanting to move out right now. Moving is a hassle, and there are a lot of factors that come into play especially in this situation that could really screw a lot of things up. So for risk's sake I agree. This doesn't necessarily mean she is choosing this other guy over me at this point. Thanks all. I don't think my advice would change and I won't speak for anyone else here. The benefit to have your name on the lease gives you equal decision-making power in that house. Without your name on the lease, you are technically not a tenant and so you technically don't have any legal rights while living there. The only reason to sign the lease is if you plan to stay there for the remainder of the year-long lease. You'll have the landlord to act as your next rental reference. If you don't sign the lease, you can move out without any problems, obviously as you won't be expected to find a subleaser for your share of the rent since you're not listed on the lease. The other 3 roommates will have to cover your share until they find someone (and that could cause resentment with your girlfriend if she stays and you move out). So, really think this through about moving out before you do it. Ultimately, you need to decide what to do. All we can do is offer you advice. We can't make your decision for you.
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