Why wait...why have a plan?

[Lady2163]

I see this a lot. I truly don't understand the reasons for not leaving if you're in a marriage you don't want to be in. Since this is the Other forum, I was hoping for some explanations from them why they are willing to wait.

 

That said, I am divorced and was very unhappy in my marriage. I had a five year plan. I was going to get through college, get 5 years of equity in the house and squirrel away $6000. I felt the $6000, plus close to another $10,000 from the sale of the house and a Bachelors degree would set me up to do whatever I wanted. I was debating on whether or not i should factor in a newer car in year 4.

 

But all that blew up when he left. He was unhappy, too. While I had grandiose plans to save $25 a week in cash and hide it, I hadn't started. I was midway through my sophomore year of college. The housing market had come to a screeching halt, whereas it had been a sellers marker when we bought a couple,of years earlier. We wouldn't even get 50% of our down payment back after closing costs.

 

No kids.

 

So, I did have to start over. I went from a 2500 sq ft house to renting a 10x10 room and having most of my stuff in storage. It was awful. It was hard work. I rented a room, I rented two apartments, I bought and flipped two mobile homes, then I lived in a efficiency apartment with most of my stuff in storage until I found my house.

 

It took nine years. I'm now upoer middle class, but it involved a lot of sacrifice. Looking back, I think I was naive to think I could divorce and come out better.

 

So when I see people on here who say the married partner is just waiting for the kids to grow or they are trying to build a nest egg, I kind of wonder why? There's never a good age for a divorce to happen. Wait until they adage high school. Wait until they graduate college. Wait until their (the kids) wedding is over, wait until after the grandchild is born....

 

And financially? If the married person isn't showing monthly results or isn't cutting back on personal spending (in retrospect, I had yet to quit the $5 morning coffee and donut routine, which would have given me my money to hoard) are they really moving forward with their plan? Financially, the married person needs to accept to divorce and be with the other, they are going to take a hit and will be sacrificing their way of life.

 

I'm not dogging on anyone here. I'm the OW/Ex-OW. i genuinely want to understand why people are setting what seems to be ridiculous goals before they can supposedly be happy.

[goodyblue]

I see this a lot. I truly don't understand the reasons for not leaving if you're in a marriage you don't want to be in. Since this is the Other forum, I was hoping for some explanations from them why they are willing to wait.

 

That said, I am divorced and was very unhappy in my marriage. I had a five year plan. I was going to get through college, get 5 years of equity in the house and squirrel away $6000. I felt the $6000, plus close to another $10,000 from the sale of the house and a Bachelors degree would set me up to do whatever I wanted. I was debating on whether or not i should factor in a newer car in year 4.

 

But all that blew up when he left. He was unhappy, too. While I had grandiose plans to save $25 a week in cash and hide it, I hadn't started. I was midway through my sophomore year of college. The housing market had come to a screeching halt, whereas it had been a sellers marker when we bought a couple,of years earlier. We wouldn't even get 50% of our down payment back after closing costs.

 

No kids.

 

So, I did have to start over. I went from a 2500 sq ft house to renting a 10x10 room and having most of my stuff in storage. It was awful. It was hard work. I rented a room, I rented two apartments, I bought and flipped two mobile homes, then I lived in a efficiency apartment with most of my stuff in storage until I found my house.

 

It took nine years. I'm now upoer middle class, but it involved a lot of sacrifice. Looking back, I think I was naive to think I could divorce and come out better.

 

So when I see people on here who say the married partner is just waiting for the kids to grow or they are trying to build a nest egg, I kind of wonder why? There's never a good age for a divorce to happen. Wait until they adage high school. Wait until they graduate college. Wait until their (the kids) wedding is over, wait until after the grandchild is born....

 

And financially? If the married person isn't showing monthly results or isn't cutting back on personal spending (in retrospect, I had yet to quit the $5 morning coffee and donut routine, which would have given me my money to hoard) are they really moving forward with their plan? Financially, the married person needs to accept to divorce and be with the other, they are going to take a hit and will be sacrificing their way of life.

 

I'm not dogging on anyone here. I'm the OW/Ex-OW. i genuinely want to understand why people are setting what seems to be ridiculous goals before they can supposedly be happy.

 

You are correct, never a good time to divorce. But sometimes it is not ten grand. Sometimes it is ten million.

[Lady2163]

Gently and tactfully....so what if it is 10 million? I'm not being sarcastic. I had to start over....someone starting over with 10 million will still have it a lot easier than I did. If this is someplace like New York City, starting over with even only $2 million of that won't be so awful.

 

You're going to lose your business, your livelihood people will be out of work after the bs gets through with you? How long should the WS be given to get their affairs in order? It's a much grander scale, but this relates to my cup,of coffee comment. If six months have passed and the WS hasn't met with lawyers and financial people privately to either protect or liquidate, when do they start?

 

We are all going to die someday. You can't take the money with you. Oh, possibly the wealthier you are, the better care you can get when you no longer can care for yourself.

[Got it]

I see this a lot. I truly don't understand the reasons for not leaving if you're in a marriage you don't want to be in. Since this is the Other forum, I was hoping for some explanations from them why they are willing to wait.

 

That said, I am divorced and was very unhappy in my marriage. I had a five year plan. I was going to get through college, get 5 years of equity in the house and squirrel away $6000. I felt the $6000, plus close to another $10,000 from the sale of the house and a Bachelors degree would set me up to do whatever I wanted. I was debating on whether or not i should factor in a newer car in year 4.

 

But all that blew up when he left. He was unhappy, too. While I had grandiose plans to save $25 a week in cash and hide it, I hadn't started. I was midway through my sophomore year of college. The housing market had come to a screeching halt, whereas it had been a sellers marker when we bought a couple,of years earlier. We wouldn't even get 50% of our down payment back after closing costs.

 

No kids.

 

So, I did have to start over. I went from a 2500 sq ft house to renting a 10x10 room and having most of my stuff in storage. It was awful. It was hard work. I rented a room, I rented two apartments, I bought and flipped two mobile homes, then I lived in a efficiency apartment with most of my stuff in storage until I found my house.

 

It took nine years. I'm now upoer middle class, but it involved a lot of sacrifice. Looking back, I think I was naive to think I could divorce and come out better.

 

So when I see people on here who say the married partner is just waiting for the kids to grow or they are trying to build a nest egg, I kind of wonder why? There's never a good age for a divorce to happen. Wait until they adage high school. Wait until they graduate college. Wait until their (the kids) wedding is over, wait until after the grandchild is born....

 

And financially? If the married person isn't showing monthly results or isn't cutting back on personal spending (in retrospect, I had yet to quit the $5 morning coffee and donut routine, which would have given me my money to hoard) are they really moving forward with their plan? Financially, the married person needs to accept to divorce and be with the other, they are going to take a hit and will be sacrificing their way of life.

 

I'm not dogging on anyone here. I'm the OW/Ex-OW. i genuinely want to understand why people are setting what seems to be ridiculous goals before they can supposedly be happy.

 

Sorry but I don't agree. Most people, especially if they have kids, work through a plan to divorce. And financial concerns definitely come into it. I think one also needs to work through, emotionally, that they are accepting they are going to divorce and then what "what next" means and will be. As someone who hates weakness and excuse I don't minimize the need for some sort of plan and going through the process.

 

And no, having an affair doesn't make sense as part of that process but it does happen. People think about wanting to divorce and some will move on it, some will not, and some will have it decided for them.

 

I "waited" as the OW but I did have expectations and milestones that he was moving in the direction he said he was. I also never underestimate how big that leaping off point is and how one can get right to the edge and just not jump off. I saw that with my parents due to having minor kids.

 

I don't fault anyone having a plan, or wanting a plan. I also don't fault anyone who doesn't want for someone else's plan. It doesn't mean each person's plans line up and that is okay.

[MissBee]

I think these are all good questions to ask and think about...not just about affairs but as you said, with regard to the idea of waiting for XYZ and some future thing to happen before you can be happy/live your life fully.

 

Life is short as you rightly pointed out and no one can bring their money to the grave, so it's really deciding about what is and isn't worth it.

 

It's not that you should never think of money or any other practical concern with divorce...but for many people I do think pointing to the future is really about being indecisive and once you just point to a future that you can't see and isn't here now it gives you time to do nothing in the present. This also affects the OW/OM more negatively, as the MP who is pointing to an unknown future bides time and can still get what they need or want from the affair and their marriage, while the OW/OM believes things will change later so stick around.

 

It's also as you said about REALLY doing things versus talking about what you would like or hope for. Like you said, if you plan to save $25 a month but in actuality haven't even begun to do so...then this is just a talk of a future that hasn't come to fruition. Planning to divorce, hoping to divorce, thinking of it isn't the same as in fact doing concrete things to get there.

 

In terms of affairs, I think it's up to the OW/OM to decide for themselves how much they are willing to wait and what needs to happen for it to be okay. I have a friend who has been waiting for 6 years...on what...not sure...since her MM has made ZERO attempts to leave and has a 9 yr old kid whose life he wants to be part of daily and for all intents and purposes has proven he's not going anywhere. The unfortunate part for her is that she has invested so much time in him that even though she realizes intellectually that she won't get what she wants, she still can't make herself emotionally let it go. So she keeps living on hope...

 

Anyway, I think the take away is that you can't live waiting for things to happen or some perfect time and if you want things to change you have to change them and it's up to everyone to decide for themselves how much is enough and what's worth it.

[Lady2163]

I should have been more specific. Assuming there isn't a dday or massive end of relationship fight, I acknowledge unhappy or discontented people may have a plan to end their marriage. In my opinion only, the longer the plan, the less likely it is to come to fruition.

[Mount]

It is simple, because you are a Do-er person, while some others people who fail their lives are simply talk-er.

 

Being a Do-er person requires strong will power and strong self-decipline, that is why you are living the comfortable life you are in right now.

 

For example, I love eating potate chips (Lay's pringle...etc), chicken wing, chocolate ...etc, but I have not eaten Potato chips since year 2007; I have not eaten dinner for over 3 years (but have soup instead); I eat a bit chocolate or ice cream once every two months only. Before writing the post, I just threw a TOBLERONE switzerland chocolcate bar in garbage as it expired in Aug '14.

 

While other people sit at their big A$$ in couch watching TV, I might be doing aerobic exercise or yoga in my living room. Financailly likewise, you have to use willpower knowing where to spend, where not to spend, to achieve the ultimate goal to have millions assets to live comforably.

 

Ultimately in life, do-er wins, talk-er fails.

 

I see this a lot. I truly don't understand the reasons for not leaving if you're in a marriage you don't want to be in. Since this is the Other forum, I was hoping for some explanations from them why they are willing to wait.

 

That said, I am divorced and was very unhappy in my marriage. I had a five year plan. I was going to get through college, get 5 years of equity in the house and squirrel away $6000. I felt the $6000, plus close to another $10,000 from the sale of the house and a Bachelors degree would set me up to do whatever I wanted. I was debating on whether or not i should factor in a newer car in year 4.

 

But all that blew up when he left. He was unhappy, too. While I had grandiose plans to save $25 a week in cash and hide it, I hadn't started. I was midway through my sophomore year of college. The housing market had come to a screeching halt, whereas it had been a sellers marker when we bought a couple,of years earlier. We wouldn't even get 50% of our down payment back after closing costs.

 

No kids.

 

So, I did have to start over. I went from a 2500 sq ft house to renting a 10x10 room and having most of my stuff in storage. It was awful. It was hard work. I rented a room, I rented two apartments, I bought and flipped two mobile homes, then I lived in a efficiency apartment with most of my stuff in storage until I found my house.

 

It took nine years. I'm now upoer middle class, but it involved a lot of sacrifice. Looking back, I think I was naive to think I could divorce and come out better.

 

So when I see people on here who say the married partner is just waiting for the kids to grow or they are trying to build a nest egg, I kind of wonder why? There's never a good age for a divorce to happen. Wait until they adage high school. Wait until they graduate college. Wait until their (the kids) wedding is over, wait until after the grandchild is born....

 

And financially? If the married person isn't showing monthly results or isn't cutting back on personal spending (in retrospect, I had yet to quit the $5 morning coffee and donut routine, which would have given me my money to hoard) are they really moving forward with their plan? Financially, the married person needs to accept to divorce and be with the other, they are going to take a hit and will be sacrificing their way of life.

 

I'm not dogging on anyone here. I'm the OW/Ex-OW. i genuinely want to understand why people are setting what seems to be ridiculous goals before they can supposedly be happy.

Edited November 2, 2014 by Mount

[nightmare01]

I thought I might put in a perspective from a BH, because you see we also have plans or back up plans.

 

Several guy friends of mine discovered their WW were having affairs. One discovered and found out the affair was short and over. The others discovered and confronted and eventually got a confession.

 

All of these guys did not want to D their WW's because of their kids. They did not want to see an OM in the role of father to their kids - and in defense of this POV to any WW that might think their OM is a great guy, there are a ton of abuse cases out there (some leading to the death of the child) from a boyfriend or OM once the father is out of the prime father role.

 

So they stay, and when the kids turn 18 or so and are on their own, they divorced their WW. In the case where the WW thought she got away with it, well let's say she was pretty surprised. Of the others they tried to blame issues after Dday, but the reality is that the D was because of the affair.

 

A WS can keep secrets, so it should come as no surprise that a BS can keep secrets too.

 

For myself - and this is a bit unrelated to the original post - I stayed in the M after Dday. I did so for a lot of personal reasons, such as insecurity (being a BS knocks the hell out of a person's self esteem), financial stuff (I was not about to share with my WW the money I earned while she was cheating). That said we are mostly fine now, but there is an emotional distance.

 

We're friends.. friends with benefits.. we get along, share a world view, and more than 35 years of history together, so we're compatible. So as long as things remain as they are I am content to stay in the relationship because it would cause me more hardship that it would be worth if I should leave.

 

BUT - I have boundaries that I expect my WW to conform to. And no, I'm not there with a whip and she is not in chains. If she sees her OM again, if I even suspect she sees him, if I discover that she would prefer to be with him rather than me, if she has another inappropriate relationship with a man.. if ANY of that happens my PLAN B goes into effect. I will D her and that will be it.. because if that happen then the balance will be tipped such that the pain of leaving and D is LESS than the pain of staying.

 

So you see, there are plans on both sides of this.

[Lady2163]

Night - truly - thanks much for your perspective

[Hope Shimmers]

I see this a lot. I truly don't understand the reasons for not leaving if you're in a marriage you don't want to be in. Since this is the Other forum, I was hoping for some explanations from them why they are willing to wait.

 

That said, I am divorced and was very unhappy in my marriage. I had a five year plan. But all that blew up when he left.

 

Am I missing something here? Because it seems YOU had a plan as well. You just didn't get to execute it because your ex-H executed his first. So I don't really understand your point.

 

Before writing the post, I just threw a TOBLERONE switzerland chocolcate bar in garbage as it expired in Aug '14.

 

Man, you should have sent it to me! I love chocolate

[Lady2163]

The point I was trying to make with my own personal example is how off base these plans when longer than a year. Yes, I had a plan and looming back while it was a struggle to get where I am, I am so thankful I didn't spend five more years of my life in the marriage. $16K would have afforded me the ability to relocate and get a decent apartment in many locales, but it wouldn't have brought me to this point any sooner.

 

Had a boyfriend once, he was divorced. He refused to have an open relationship until he was done with child support, because his ex would turn the kids against him and make him pay in other ways. His youngest was 13, the divorce decree stated he had to pay support until the last child graduated college. I hung in there as a secret for 14 months. It took two Christmases, Thanksgiving, NYE and birthdays alone for me to wise up. I told him I deserved better than to be a secret for 8 more years.

 

Again, there's no good time to divorce....and no good time to have an affair. I just don't understand why people have some elaborate plan that lasts longer than a year if they truly mean to divorce and be with the Other. And, if the Other is also single, why they are willing to wait?

[cocorico]

 

I'm not dogging on anyone here. I'm the OW/Ex-OW. i genuinely want to understand why people are setting what seems to be ridiculous goals before they can supposedly be happy.

 

I'm one of those people who leaves if they're not happy. I single-parented under trying conditions, so yes, I know it's possible. But not everyone is the same.

 

My H is English. He was brought up in an era of taking your duties and responsibilities very seriously as a man, and putting your own needs and wants absolutely last. He was also a child of divorce, and had his own issues and projections because of that. So he was never going to just up and go.

 

In his case, it was also more complex. Besides his own fears and memories of his own childhood with his parents' divorce, he and his then-W had separated for a year, at her instigation (before the A). She coped very badly during the separation, fell to pieces. The kids saw that and they coped really badly too. He, OTOH, discovered happiness, his depression lifted and life had meaning. And then, she begged him to take her back, even agreeing to go to MC (which he'd been asking for years). Seeing how badly the kids were suffering, he put his own health and wellbeing aside and agreed. Of course she didn't change, she didn't do MC, it was as bad as ever - only worse, because now he knew how different life *could* be....mans so he was vulnerable to an A, and fell into it when it presented.

 

At first, he was adamant that he wouldn't leave the M - at least, not until,the kids were grown. After all, by sacrificing his own happiness, he'd undertaken to see them through, and to protect them from a repeat of the suffering of the split. But over time that shifted - they grew older, they saw how unhappy he was and he was no longer able to protect them from her and they were also unhappy, and speaking about alternatives became possible. When he spoke to them about falling in love with someone else, they were supportive. When he discussed leaving,mother were positive. We made plans, they approved, then he told the BW they were leaving.

 

He could not have left earlier. The kids were not ready, and he was not ready - although his one regret is that he didn't. (Or, that he ever took her back. Or, that he ever engaged with her, depending on his mood) he needed to be sure the kids would be OK.

 

And even if he had left earlier, I couldn't have. I had commitments of my own - work, kids, etc - and leaving when I did was the earliest I could make (he'd left about 6 months previously). Rushing it would have been counterproductive- we have the rest of our lives together, we needed everything to be in place because we had responsibilities to others (kids, work, etc).

[Be_Strong]

If there's no kids in the picture, then I don't understand waiting on a divorce once a person has decided that's what they want, especially if there is an OM/OW in the picture. Personally, I'd rather be poor and with the love of my life than wealthy with a person I don't love.

 

But, when there are kids, the dynamic is so much different. In those cases, the person has competing love interests--themselves, their kids, and possibly an OM/OW. Often, the parent realizes that the love for their kids trumps everything else--and at the end of the day will do whatever they think is best for the kids, even if it means sacrificing their own happiness.

 

You'll often see me encouraging a divorce when there is infidelity in a marriage with no children involved, and discouraging divorce when there are children.

[Got it]

The point I was trying to make with my own personal example is how off base these plans when longer than a year. Yes, I had a plan and looming back while it was a struggle to get where I am, I am so thankful I didn't spend five more years of my life in the marriage. $16K would have afforded me the ability to relocate and get a decent apartment in many locales, but it wouldn't have brought me to this point any sooner.

 

Had a boyfriend once, he was divorced. He refused to have an open relationship until he was done with child support, because his ex would turn the kids against him and make him pay in other ways. His youngest was 13, the divorce decree stated he had to pay support until the last child graduated college. I hung in there as a secret for 14 months. It took two Christmases, Thanksgiving, NYE and birthdays alone for me to wise up. I told him I deserved better than to be a secret for 8 more years.

 

Again, there's no good time to divorce....and no good time to have an affair. I just don't understand why people have some elaborate plan that lasts longer than a year if they truly mean to divorce and be with the Other. And, if the Other is also single, why they are willing to wait?

 

Okay I don't get the point about the boyfriend. He was divorced, it was just a set up he felt was needed/wanted and so, like many relationships, had certain perimeters that you would agree to or not.

 

I don't think having a plan is an issue, and yes not all of them come to fruition . But it is more about whether you are actually implementing your plan or using it as a shiny little fantasy tool that you trot out when down and out but aren't actually looking to implement it.

 

I also don't think everyone is going to agree with everyone's plan. This seems to be more about divorcing in general than OW/OM. My father had a plan of waiting until the kids were grown. We have discussed it ad nauseum and have agreed to disagree. While I don't agree with it, I see his line of logic and it was his. It required waiting many years but he stands by it. Sure, short term events prompted the exact timing of when he did it, and what he took advantage of, but he stuck by this broad picture.

 

I am sure if someone was evaluating it mid way, or any point along the way, they would have questioned this plan. I am sure he did. And evidence did not look like that was the direction he was going. But I think he also held out a small bit of hope that things would change.

[Mascara]

Because most of the time it's not a plan, it's an excuse. A plan involves making preparations - savings, consulting on the legals and financials, manouevering things into place, looking into ways of helping the kids, drawing up budgets. Saying "I'll leave when the kids are older" is not a plan.

[C00kie]

It's not that you should never think of money or any other practical concern with divorce...but for many people I do think pointing to the future is really about being indecisive and once you just point to a future that you can't see and isn't here now it gives you time to do nothing in the present.

 

This sums everything up. Couldn't agree more.

[StanMusial]

Men plan, God laughs.

[Gloria25]

It's not the same divorcing when you have kids vs. being single...period

 

Unless there's addictions, abuse, or affairs - people can stick it out, but yup, they're more worried about "their" happiness. While they claim that if "they're" happy, the kids will be happy - that's not necessarily true.

 

Kids - even from abusive parents have a deep desire for mom and dad to be under the same roof.

 

When you divorce, it doesn't necessarily mean happiness cuz the kids get split between two households, the new bf/gf may abuse/neglect the kids, if more kids are born, the original kids feel like 3rd wheels, poverty - especially in "single parent" households...and, I can go on and on. Even the divorce rates in 2nd marriages is like 75%.

 

Look, we all get up every day and go to work with people we would want to spit on...We smile, put on a good face cuz we need that paycheck. So, smiling and just trying to get along with your spouse until the kids are 18 is too much for you to do - yet we do it for years for thankless employers?

 

That's why I don't have kids....yeah, it's kinda selfish, but kids take sacrifice. I am not making that sacrifice.

[Got it]

It's not the same divorcing when you have kids vs. being single...period

 

Unless there's addictions, abuse, or affairs - people can stick it out, but yup, they're more worried about "their" happiness. While they claim that if "they're" happy, the kids will be happy - that's not necessarily true.

 

Kids - even from abusive parents have a deep desire for mom and dad to be under the same roof.

 

When you divorce, it doesn't necessarily mean happiness cuz the kids get split between two households, the new bf/gf may abuse/neglect the kids, if more kids are born, the original kids feel like 3rd wheels, poverty - especially in "single parent" households...and, I can go on and on. Even the divorce rates in 2nd marriages is like 75%.

 

Look, we all get up every day and go to work with people we would want to spit on...We smile, put on a good face cuz we need that paycheck. So, smiling and just trying to get along with your spouse until the kids are 18 is too much for you to do - yet we do it for years for thankless employers?

 

That's why I don't have kids....yeah, it's kinda selfish, but kids take sacrifice. I am not making that sacrifice.

 

Not all kids want their parents together. I know I was relieved when I thought my parents were splitting up. Though the thought was we would stay with our mom. He was an angry and scary man. No way wanted to be alone with him long term.

 

And at some point one is doing little good sacrificing that much "for their kids". You are just teaching your kids how to repeat bad relationships.

[Gloria25]

Not all kids want their parents together. I know I was relieved when I thought my parents were splitting up. Though the thought was we would stay with our mom. He was an angry and scary man. No way wanted to be alone with him long term.

 

And at some point one is doing little good sacrificing that much "for their kids". You are just teaching your kids how to repeat bad relationships.

 

You somehow missed the part of my post about "addictions, abuse, affairs"...