Slut shaming

[loveboid]

I'm starting to wonder if an influencing factor in WW leaving their BS is cultural slut shaming. If WW plays out like she's leaving for a great romance then the affair can't be because of so called shameful libidinous desires.

 

And the same goes for OW pushing so much for marriage...to avoid shame for making a booty call to a man.

 

I could be on a wild goose chase. What do you think?

 

 

Edited for clarity.

Edited November 2, 2014 by loveboid

[lovinDKT3]

I can't say its always the case. I know in my situation I would have never left my husband. I also convinced myself that he would accept me back no matter what I had done. My affair, like most women, was never about the sex. In fact I only had sex with AP 8 times in almost two years. Less then half was sexual intercourse.

 

I think maybe its a small factor. The major factor is the WW convincing themself he is a great guy, I mean he has to be to risk it all for. That turn a lot of frogs.

[MissBee]

While women's sexual activities and choices are viewed very differently by society, I don't believe that WW fool themselves into making their affair a great romance in order to not have themselves viewed as being in it for a booty call. I also don't think OW who want an open R or marriage are doing it for those reasons either.

 

To use myself as an example: I've been with taken guys twice, one was an affair relationship where I genuinely loved him and wanted to be with him in a regular relationship and would have wanted to marry him and the other was more of an emotionally detached FWB sort of thing.I had no reason to pretend the latter was anything more. I actually felt better in the latter scenario, in the sense that I felt more in control while where I was in love with him and couldn't be with him in the way I wanted it led to more heartbreak and frustration. So personally, I don't see the benefit of pretending you love someone just to not be slut shamed. In the FWB case too, it's not like I went around telling people about him or that he had a gf or anything so there was no one to slut shame me. In fact, with the booty call guy, he wasn't someone I really spoke about much whereas with the other guy, I did love him and had a relationship with him so my friends knew him, met him etc. I think OW who just want to sleep with a MM probably don't think of themselves as his OW...I sure didn't....as for me the OW implies there is some idea of a relationship...and if they are just sleeping with this guy without deeper feelings they probably aren't broadcasting it here and there so that there will be anyone to slut shame them about it.

 

I think slut shaming is relevant in lots of situations but I don't think that has an effect on whether or not married women leave or if OW want marriage. I think people are more likely genuine about their feelings.If they don't love them and want sex I don't think most women in affairs, be they the married one or the OW, are gonna pretend they do.

Edited November 2, 2014 by MissBee

[lovinDKT3]

While women's sexual activities and choices are viewed very differently by society, I don't believe that WW fool themselves into making their affair a great romance in order to not have themselves viewed as being in it for a booty call. I also don't think OW who want an open R or marriage are doing it for those reasons either.

 

To use myself as an example: I've been with taken guys twice, one was an affair relationship where I genuinely loved him and wanted to be with him in a regular relationship and would have wanted to marry him and the other was more of an emotionally detached FWB sort of thing.I had no reason to pretend the latter was anything more. I actually felt better in the latter scenario, in the sense that I felt more in control while where I was in love with him and couldn't be with him in the way I wanted it led to more heartbreak and frustration. So personally, I don't see the benefit of pretending you love someone just to not be slut shamed. In the FWB case too, it's not like I went around telling people about him or that he had a gf or anything so there was no one to slut shame me. In fact, with the booty call guy, he wasn't someone I really spoke about much whereas with the other guy, I did love him and had a relationship with him so my friends knew him, met him etc. I think OW who just want to sleep with a MM probably don't think of themselves as his OW...I sure didn't....as for me the OW implies there is some idea of a relationship...and if they are just sleeping with this guy without deeper feelings they probably aren't broadcasting it here and there so that there will be anyone to slut shame them about it.

 

I think slut shaming is relevant in lots of situations but I don't think that has an effect on whether or not married women leave or if OW want marriage. I think people are more likely genuine about their feelings.If they don't love them and want sex I don't think most women in affairs, be they the married one or the OW, are gonna pretend they do.

 

I think there is a difference between OW and MOW. Not so much the slut shaming, but the being willing to risk it all. I think that MW, most often have to believe the OM is worth the risk in order to risk it all. This is were we tend to see or want to believe there is more there then there is. This is why we tend to believe things that make others shake their head and say WTF are you thinking. Now there is also that dynamic with OW, but the truth is there isn't as much on the line. I think far too often MW don't REALLY want out of the marriage. Most of us can really only focus on one romantic partner at a time and the greater connection goes to the one we make the most effort with. 10 or 12 years in it was easier to make the effort with OM, it was fresh, new and exciting.

 

I know there is a lot of pretending and future faking in affairs. It normally takes women farther removed from the affair and AP to truly see that. Yet still, looking back, for some its still hard to admit or what to think and believe that was the case.

 

Each of us are different and did what we did for different reasons. In my opinion there is far less in those relationship then we want to believe. Of course that isn't always the case as seen here where we have a hand full of OW/MOW that are with the OM/MOM in legit relationships.

[Red123]

I have to agree with you lovin. My H was in an A with MOW and she constantly said that what they had was special and that it wasn't an A because As are cheap and for bad people. She felt they were in love after 2 weeks. She even stated when they had sex it had to be special, probably why it only happened twice in 3 months. As a woman the same age as her I was so confused. It was an A why would she think that way, there wasn't even any real future faking going on. I have not had an A but I'm assuming that you are correct when you say that she had to convince herself that what she was doing was worth the risk of her losing her H and the turmoil for her two young babies if it was discovered. My H viewed the A differently, I'm sure that has a lot to do with gender.

[Sassy Girl]

I know in my case I won't be ashamed for having a libido and wanting to connect with a man on an intimate level. I employed my husband for the job. He half assed it for a while till he just decided he couldn't be bothered anymore. I'm fit, healthy, attractive, successful and take care of myself. He is a great employee and father but in his own words a "lazy, $hitty husband" who is about 60lb overweight and needs reminders to get a haircut...

 

I know I don't fit a lot of the stereotypes discussed above. If I am found out, I will leave - because my marriage is over. There is no fixing what is broken on my own... I've tried. I don't have it in me to do CPR on a dead relationship. For now. I cake eat...

[Lernaean_Hydra]

I won't say I completely agree but your post did make me think so there's obviously some merit. For some people (namely outsiders, i.e., those not directly affected by the affair) it can be a lot easier to swallow if someone says they had an affair - or were the AP in one - out of "love".

 

But I'm not sure this is so much due to slut-shaming as it is the fact that in general, society has always been fond of a love story and are often much more forgiving for misdeeds (of any kind) if someone says they did it for "love". For some reason, people tend to view bad acts less unfavorably if the heart is somehow involved. A man shoots his wife? Horrible! Disgusting! A man shoots his wife because he caught her cheating and broke his heart? Horrible! Disgusting! ....and sort of understandable.

 

However it's also a lot easier for people to excuse their OWN bad behavior if they blame it on love. Lust...that filthy carnal desire can technically be fulfilled by pretty much anyone. But loooove . Why you can only ever love one! Apparently. Think about it. Most self-respecting people would be loathed to say "Yeah, I'm ruining a marriage and blowing up my life for (or to BE) a little bit on the side." It sounds a lot better to say "Oh but we were just so in love, it couldn't be helped!"

 

Not just because it's viewed as potentially "less slutty", but because openly admitting to thinking with your loins sounds base and animalistic. It sounds like someone with poor impulse control too stupid to make good judgement calls when their nether-bits are involved like some sort of horny teenager. Not so when you blame it on that thing in your chest.

[sunburned]

I think there is a difference between OW and MOW. Not so much the slut shaming, but the being willing to risk it all. I think that MW, most often have to believe the OM is worth the risk in order to risk it all. This is were we tend to see or want to believe there is more there then there is. This is why we tend to believe things that make others shake their head and say WTF are you thinking. Now there is also that dynamic with OW, but the truth is there isn't as much on the line. I think far too often MW don't REALLY want out of the marriage. Most of us can really only focus on one romantic partner at a time and the greater connection goes to the one we make the most effort with. 10 or 12 years in it was easier to make the effort with OM, it was fresh, new and exciting.

 

I know there is a lot of pretending and future faking in affairs. It normally takes women farther removed from the affair and AP to truly see that. Yet still, looking back, for some its still hard to admit or what to think and believe that was the case.

 

Each of us are different and did what we did for different reasons. In my opinion there is far less in those relationship then we want to believe. Of course that isn't always the case as seen here where we have a hand full of OW/MOW that are with the OM/MOM in legit relationships.

 

I'm a MW who had a brief A with a MM (mostly an EA but with some heavy make out sessions) LovinDKT3 has an interesting perspective but I see things differently from the first bolded sentance. I believe most married cheaters don't think they're risking anything because they (and i include myself here) don't think they will get caught. Ironically, my married AP said to me "I can't believe you're in love with me." I said something like "Umm, i don't remember saying i was in love with you." He said "well you must be to take this risk." I asked if he was saying he was in love with me and he said "God, yes." I remember thinking there must be something wrong with me (besides the very obvious) that I was having an A with someone I wasn't in love with. This "tactic" of his worked wonders, because pretty soon I was saying it back and wondering if I really did (no).

 

I actually think single OW are more likely to fall under the slut shaming category (just using the OP's language!). They don't have as much to lose in terms of not having a spouse, agreed. But many do have kids, they have have reputations to protect and -- in many csses -- if it's a workplace A, then they have a job, a reputation and office gossip at risk. I believe most married people go into As knowing the score whereas single OM/OW may be a little more naive and more likely to think the married AP will leave for them and more prone to double down fighting for that future, vs. cutting their losses and leaving.

 

But I would agree with Lovin' that most women can only focus on one romantic partner at a time and while I was with my AP, I had emotionally and physically checked out of my marriage. I did the bare minimum to not seem suspicious. I was too busy emailing/texting and thinking of nice things to do for someone else.

 

I also agree with this statement: In my opinion there is far less in those relationship then we want to believe. Though I knew I didn't love my AP, I did like him a lot. At the time (and I am in my 40s), I thought our connection, our chemistry, our friendship was rare/special/unique and meant to be realized and nurtured. It wasn't until I came to LS that I realized just how many people had that same "rare" chemistry.

[Redheaded Mistress]

I'm starting to wonder if an influencing factor in WW leaving their BS is cultural slut shaming. If WW plays out like she's leaving for a great romance then the affair can't be because of so called shameful libidinous desires.

 

And the same goes for OW pushing so much for marriage...to avoid shame for making a booty call to a man.

 

I could be on a wild goose chase. What do you think?

 

 

Edited for clarity.

 

I think women are held to double standards with sex, but I think "socital pressure" ranks at the bottom of reasons for leaving a spouse or trying to marry your AP.

 

It has been my experience both personally and seeing others go through it that society cares half as much and for far less time about this sort of stuff as compared to this forum's participants.

[Lurkeraspect]

I think women are held to double standards with sex, but I think "socital pressure" ranks at the bottom of reasons for leaving a spouse or trying to marry your AP.

 

It has been my experience both personally and seeing others go through it that society cares half as much and for far less time about this sort of stuff as compared to this forum's participants.

 

Society may not come out and say things to your face, but if they know, they're likely talking...behind your back. I'm quite sure you wouldn't care about such pettiness, but please don't be naive to think that if known, it's all okay and every one couldn't care less. I've seen this a few times in my experience and it's not the casual nonchalance you believe it to be. Well, in the society I live in.

[lovinDKT3]

I'm a MW who had a brief A with a MM (mostly an EA but with some heavy make out sessions) LovinDKT3 has an interesting perspective but I see things differently from the first bolded sentance. I believe most married cheaters don't think they're risking anything because they (and i include myself here) don't think they will get caught. Ironically, my married AP said to me "I can't believe you're in love with me." I said something like "Umm, i don't remember saying i was in love with you." He said "well you must be to take this risk." I asked if he was saying he was in love with me and he said "God, yes." I remember thinking there must be something wrong with me (besides the very obvious) that I was having an A with someone I wasn't in love with. This "tactic" of his worked wonders, because pretty soon I was saying it back and wondering if I really did (no).

 

I actually think single OW are more likely to fall under the slut shaming category (just using the OP's language!). They don't have as much to lose in terms of not having a spouse, agreed. But many do have kids, they have have reputations to protect and -- in many csses -- if it's a workplace A, then they have a job, a reputation and office gossip at risk. I believe most married people go into As knowing the score whereas single OM/OW may be a little more naive and more likely to think the married AP will leave for them and more prone to double down fighting for that future, vs. cutting their losses and leaving.

 

But I would agree with Lovin' that most women can only focus on one romantic partner at a time and while I was with my AP, I had emotionally and physically checked out of my marriage. I did the bare minimum to not seem suspicious. I was too busy emailing/texting and thinking of nice things to do for someone else.

 

I also agree with this statement: In my opinion there is far less in those relationship then we want to believe. Though I knew I didn't love my AP, I did like him a lot. At the time (and I am in my 40s), I thought our connection, our chemistry, our friendship was rare/special/unique and meant to be realized and nurtured. It wasn't until I came to LS that I realized just how many people had that same "rare" chemistry.

 

Your right, I never thought I would get caught. I was careful I had rules. The problem was my husband, as many of you know, is a very sharpe man and very observant. Over time he picked up subtle changes. At a point it was pretty clear he knew.

 

Like you I was never IN LOVE with OM, but while in that relationship I felt divorce would be OK. Oddly enough I thought even if he found out he would stay, he would stand by me no matter what I did. Which played a huge role in me being involved in the first place.

[MissBee]

I think women are held to double standards with sex, but I think "socital pressure" ranks at the bottom of reasons for leaving a spouse or trying to marry your AP.

 

It has been my experience both personally and seeing others go through it that society cares half as much and for far less time about this sort of stuff as compared to this forum's participants.

 

I agree, well I agree specifically to the idea that I don't think slut shaming from society is what influences someone leaving to be with their AP or an OW wanting marriage. I think most OW who want MM for marriage want it for similar reasons any other woman might want that from a man she's with, not because she doesn't want to be deemed a slut. Likewise, I think a MW leaves to be with her AP because she thinks it's a better deal for whatever reason and also not because she's concerned with being seen as a slut.

 

I disagree though that society doesn't care. Society is not really a thing in and of itself but comprises all of us and all of us are shaped by respective societies and the opinions and topics discussed here come out of that...no one is society free and every single thing we think, do and believe is shaped in some way by the world around us. The fact that an affair forum exists tells you there is some notion about what "appropriate" relationships are and aren't for example, and this comes from a wider societal view which we're all shaped by.

 

The difference between LS and out in the offline world is that LS is a forum where people have opened up their lives/problems for scrutiny and so folks freely comment. The way we engage here is very different from offline because forums are very structured places for the purposes of anonymous people to tell you their business and invite hundreds of strangers to comment....this isn't how offline works. But if for example one were to sit in a mall and announce one's problems on a microphone and invite comments...you'd probably find a lot of folks will have all kinds of opinions about it. But if you don't ask people tend to mind their business or just are unaware of it. Gossip exists though because there are actions and things people approve of and don't and when folks are too polite to say anything to your face offline they just talk about it with other people.In general any face to face interactions tend to be a lot more polite and people may not say what they really think whereas on LS we can be a lot more frank with folks.

 

The opinions I share here are things I really think and believe; however, I don't go around randomly telling them to people or randomly commenting on others' lives . If asked or put in a situation to comment, I will. But if not asked or not in a situation to comment, I won't, it doesn't mean I don't have any opinions/beliefs on a topic, just that if not asked I'm not gonna impose my opinion randomly.

[NJ123]

Sorry to say, but there's no excuse whatsoever to have an affair no matter the circumstances. If you want to act like your single, than don't get married, period. Of course like always there's going to be people on here who beg to differ.

[OwMyEyeball]

I'd wager it's more likely one or both parties to the A are confusing infatuation for love.

 

That they can't get what they desire - a committed, public relationship - only stokes the fires of passion and adds to the excitement.

 

I don't see the behaviour any differently than I would a drug addiction. But rather than the high being derived from ingested substances, it's being delivered through behavioural cues. The risk, excitement and craving are the fuel to an A. The sex is an expression of that.

 

Inability to see the consequences of their actions (effects on family, kids, career & community), escalating craving for their next "fix", heightened risk taking, frequent "crashes" and increased susceptibility to depression 'cured' only by their next encounter or heightened anticipation of it. There's no love there. Just an unsustainable attachment to desire itself.

 

A lot of persons in affairs are infatuation junkies. Most probably don't even realize it.

[gettingstronger]

I am not sure its slut shaming or what, but I believe the infidelity is always looked down upon not only by those involved, those hurt by it or those that know of "someone else".

 

I think that is why, myself as a BS come on here to read, discuss and vent rather than talk to my friends- yes, I do fear what they would think of me for staying, what they would think of my husband for straying.

 

I also think that is why some of these FOW who now claim to be happily with their OP come on here and fight so hard to prove that "some affairs" are okay in the end because of how they turned out.

 

I think all of us know that infidelity is shameful for all involved. That society frowns upon it to some degree and always will. Its a reality we all live with, one we all suffer through and one no matter how much people try to deny is just the way it is-

[lovinDKT3]

Sorry to say, but there's no excuse whatsoever to have an affair no matter the circumstances. If you want to act like your single, than don't get married, period. Of course like always there's going to be people on here who beg to differ.

 

I absolutely agree. However its not that simple. No one gets married thinking "I think I wll be an unfaithful spouse". Life happens, we make poor decisions.

 

I can honestly say when I got involved I thought my marriage was ending. I had enough of feeling like I had to beg and plead for the husband he promised to be. The affair was a horrible way to deal with the problem. Unlike most unfaithful wives I won't say I didn't look for it, because I did. Not in the sense that I left the house thinking I'm going to find a man today. What I did was went with it fully knowing where it was leading. At any point I could have said no, I'm not going there.

[Red123]

I absolutely agree. However its not that simple. No one gets married thinking "I think I wll be an unfaithful spouse". Life happens, we make poor decisions.

 

I can honestly say when I got involved I thought my marriage was ending. I had enough of feeling like I had to beg and plead for the husband he promised to be. The affair was a horrible way to deal with the problem. Unlike most unfaithful wives I won't say I didn't look for it, because I did. Not in the sense that I left the house thinking I'm going to find a man today. What I did was went with it fully knowing where it was leading. At any point I could have said no, I'm not going there.

 

Although an A is no way to deal with issues like you described, I feel that is similar to where my H and were before his A. I was giving nothing, hard to admit but true. We were on the verge of being done, we just hadn't taken the steps. I could only see that when I looked at my situation from outside of myself, away from the deep pain. I don't excuse what he did but I can see how it happened.

[NJ123]

I absolutely agree. However its not that simple. No one gets married thinking "I think I wll be an unfaithful spouse". Life happens, we make poor decisions.

 

I can honestly say when I got involved I thought my marriage was ending. I had enough of feeling like I had to beg and plead for the husband he promised to be. The affair was a horrible way to deal with the problem. Unlike most unfaithful wives I won't say I didn't look for it, because I did. Not in the sense that I left the house thinking I'm going to find a man today. What I did was went with it fully knowing where it was leading. At any point I could have said no, I'm not going there.

 

Well you just said you agree, than made a bunch of excuses right after for your behavior. Why not at least get separated from your husband first before making these awful decisions that you know will lead to nothing but pain.

[lovinDKT3]

Well you just said you agree, than made a bunch of excuses right after for your behavior. Why not at least get separated from your husband first before making these awful decisions that you know will lead to nothing but pain.

 

No excuses, just explaining my state of mind at the time. My affair was selfish and self serving. Pulling the trigger on separation or even talking about divorce was very difficult. I still very much loved my husband. The anger and resentment was strong and I dealt with it in a corwardly way.

[NJ123]

No excuses, just explaining my state of mind at the time. My affair was selfish and self serving. Pulling the trigger on separation or even talking about divorce was very difficult. I still very much loved my husband. The anger and resentment was strong and I dealt with it in a corwardly way.

 

Fair enough. So what happened with your marriage? Did he find out on his own or did you confess? Did he want a divorce?

[lovinDKT3]

Fair enough. So what happened with your marriage? Did he find out on his own or did you confess? Did he want a divorce?

 

I wanted to confess, I really did. During a fight I did kinda of a semi confession. The look in his eyes spoke volumes and at that moment I finally knew he would divorce me. So I retracted the half ass confession then lied and denied. Waiting and hoping he would be less angry so I could tell him. He became distant and started to shut me out of his life. He would go weeks barely talking to me. It felt like I had lost him. One day I came up from behind him and hugged him. He pulled away and turned and looked at me with a death glare I knew it was over. A few days later I asked him if we where ok. He said yeap. That was all. Three days later I was served with divorce papers at work. I rushed home calling him every few seconds all the way home, no answer. When I got home I confessed everything trying to save us. He simply looked at me and said "its too late, I'm moving out" with that he was gone.

 

That was five years ago. Today we are divorced but back together and happier then ever before. Lots of work between then and now. Lots of therapy and talking. We've learned to communicate well, most importantly we've learned to communicate the tough and uncomfortable topics.

[Lurkeraspect]

I wanted to confess, I really did. During a fight I did kinda of a semi confession. The look in his eyes spoke volumes and at that moment I finally knew he would divorce me. So I retracted the half ass confession then lied and denied. Waiting and hoping he would be less angry so I could tell him. He became distant and started to shut me out of his life. He would go weeks barely talking to me. It felt like I had lost him. One day I came up from behind him and hugged him. He pulled away and turned and looked at me with a death glare I knew it was over. A few days later I asked him if we where ok. He said yeap. That was all. Three days later I was served with divorce papers at work. I rushed home calling him every few seconds all the way home, no answer. When I got home I confessed everything trying to save us. He simply looked at me and said "its too late, I'm moving out" with that he was gone.

 

That was five years ago. Today we are divorced but back together and happier then ever before. Lots of work between then and now. Lots of therapy and talking. We've learned to communicate well, most importantly we've learned to communicate the tough and uncomfortable topics.

 

Your honesty is so refreshing!

[NJ123]

I wanted to confess, I really did. During a fight I did kinda of a semi confession. The look in his eyes spoke volumes and at that moment I finally knew he would divorce me. So I retracted the half ass confession then lied and denied. Waiting and hoping he would be less angry so I could tell him. He became distant and started to shut me out of his life. He would go weeks barely talking to me. It felt like I had lost him. One day I came up from behind him and hugged him. He pulled away and turned and looked at me with a death glare I knew it was over. A few days later I asked him if we where ok. He said yeap. That was all. Three days later I was served with divorce papers at work. I rushed home calling him every few seconds all the way home, no answer. When I got home I confessed everything trying to save us. He simply looked at me and said "its too late, I'm moving out" with that he was gone.

 

That was five years ago. Today we are divorced but back together and happier then ever before. Lots of work between then and now. Lots of therapy and talking. We've learned to communicate well, most importantly we've learned to communicate the tough and uncomfortable topics.

 

Do you plan on getting re-married to him one day? And honestly after all you been through, would you ever think about cheating again since you did say "life happens" in an earlier post. I'd hope that you learned from that & would never think about cheating ever again. Since unfortunately it seems most who cheat once, do it again & again. I hope your one of the exceptions.

[lovinDKT3]

Do you plan on getting re-married to him one day? And honestly after all you been through, would you ever think about cheating again since you did say "life happens" in an earlier post. I'd hope that you learned from that & would never think about cheating ever again. Since unfortunately it seems most who cheat once, do it again & again. I hope your one of the exceptions.

 

He did ask me to re-marry him and we are expecting our third child in Feb.

 

Infidelity repeats when it isn't understood. I understand how I allowed myself to get there. I have learned a lot and I will never do that again. I know, I know. That is always said. I really mean it. I've had an affair, I hide and lied about and it was horrible. I also got divorced and as painful as that ways, it was far less of an emotional ride. Get where I'm going there.

 

The biggest difference is we are new people. We know the importance of communication. When I talk he really hears what I'm saying and do I with him. We don't allow resentment to grow. Its getting easier to be open and upfront about things that bug me that he does. He has never had much trouble telling me.

[NJ123]

He did ask me to re-marry him and we are expecting our third child in Feb.

 

Infidelity repeats when it isn't understood. I understand how I allowed myself to get there. I have learned a lot and I will never do that again. I know, I know. That is always said. I really mean it. I've had an affair, I hide and lied about and it was horrible. I also got divorced and as painful as that ways, it was far less of an emotional ride. Get where I'm going there.

 

The biggest difference is we are new people. We know the importance of communication. When I talk he really hears what I'm saying and do I with him. We don't allow resentment to grow. Its getting easier to be open and upfront about things that bug me that he does. He has never had much trouble telling me.

 

That's good. I believe you, since you really seem genuine in all your posts.