How to say no to this date?

[quidproquo89]

Some stereotypes exist just cause they have been created by many years of observation and comparison, thus I don't think they are wrong. In OLD I can't just hope, I mostly try to avoid the obstacles that are there and wish there is one guy who is a diamond in the rough. A hot guy in OLD in my opinion is 99% one of the 3 cases I mentioned above. Now if he is the 1% exception, I won't stick around and check it.

 

 

 

I disagree. I want a man who is human and he shows it. I want to know that he is sensitive and he can love me and he can be a good father in the future. The alpha males you describe are for young women in their twenties who just want to have fun. I've gone past the times when I only wanted fun. Now I want a partner and a father for my future kids.

 

 

 

I guess what you meant was you can't believe these things are a turn off, well for me they ar, for the reasons I gave above.

 

 

 

I know he hasn't done anything yet, but him being hot and in OLD suggests the above cases I gave, from which none are OK.

 

 

 

It means that all people who lack (or think they lack) one attribute they try to even it up with other attributes., that's why a big girl is almost always a good person or a short and kinda average looking guy is smart or kind etc. I know these sounds as stereotypes, but as I said before, I trust stereotypes cause they're there for a reason.

 

 

 

I don't see it as you picking on me, we are just having a conversation and thank you for that

 

you make some valid points. I appreciate that your not knowingly looking for the alpha male with no sensibility.

 

I see an alpha male can be simply someone like me who wont be pushed around or used as a door mat. I am deeply sesnitive, but you have to peel the layers lol. I wouldnt share insecurities with someone I've just met, but after time - i'm sure you would agree with that

[quidproquo89]

Some stereotypes exist just cause they have been created by many years of observation and comparison, thus I don't think they are wrong. In OLD I can't just hope, I mostly try to avoid the obstacles that are there and wish there is one guy who is a diamond in the rough. A hot guy in OLD in my opinion is 99% one of the 3 cases I mentioned above. Now if he is the 1% exception, I won't stick around and check it.

 

 

 

I disagree. I want a man who is human and he shows it. I want to know that he is sensitive and he can love me and he can be a good father in the future. The alpha males you describe are for young women in their twenties who just want to have fun. I've gone past the times when I only wanted fun. Now I want a partner and a father for my future kids.

 

 

 

I guess what you meant was you can't believe these things are a turn off, well for me they ar, for the reasons I gave above.

 

 

 

I know he hasn't done anything yet, but him being hot and in OLD suggests the above cases I gave, from which none are OK.

 

 

 

It means that all people who lack (or think they lack) one attribute they try to even it up with other attributes., that's why a big girl is almost always a good person or a short and kinda average looking guy is smart or kind etc. I know these sounds as stereotypes, but as I said before, I trust stereotypes cause they're there for a reason.

 

 

 

I don't see it as you picking on me, we are just having a conversation and thank you for that

 

highlighted bit - I think that has always been my problem I come from a very traditional, rational family so I've been at the stage where I wanted to settle down with someone from a very early age. I'm just starting to 'late bloom' now. But I don't think it was ever me. I've just pursued too many childish/selfish/flaky girls who arent at all at the place that I was at.

 

Now that I'm older and so are my prospects, maybe now I can find someone decent to settle down with

[NJ123]

Some stereotypes exist just cause they have been created by many years of observation and comparison, thus I don't think they are wrong. In OLD I can't just hope, I mostly try to avoid the obstacles that are there and wish there is one guy who is a diamond in the rough. A hot guy in OLD in my opinion is 99% one of the 3 cases I mentioned above. Now if he is the 1% exception, I won't stick around and check it.

 

 

 

I disagree. I want a man who is human and he shows it. I want to know that he is sensitive and he can love me and he can be a good father in the future. The alpha males you describe are for young women in their twenties who just want to have fun. I've gone past the times when I only wanted fun. Now I want a partner and a father for my future kids.

 

 

 

I guess what you meant was you can't believe these things are a turn off, well for me they ar, for the reasons I gave above.

 

 

 

I know he hasn't done anything yet, but him being hot and in OLD suggests the above cases I gave, from which none are OK.

 

 

 

It means that all people who lack (or think they lack) one attribute they try to even it up with other attributes., that's why a big girl is almost always a good person or a short and kinda average looking guy is smart or kind etc. I know these sounds as stereotypes, but as I said before, I trust stereotypes cause they're there for a reason.

 

 

 

I don't see it as you picking on me, we are just having a conversation and thank you for that

 

So, you want to find a guy you would have never given a chance to in the past when you were younger to settle down with & have kids? No offense, but that's absolutely the worst position to put a guy in. NO man wants to be the "settle guy".

[quidproquo89]

So, you want to find a guy you would have never given a chance to in the past when you were younger to settle down with & have kids? No offense, but that's absolutely the worst position to put a guy in. NO man wants to be the "settle guy".

 

no man or woman should ever settle - its not fair on anyone involved

[NJ123]

no man or woman should ever settle - its not fair on anyone involved

 

what i'm saying is the guy will never know that she doesn't view her husband as alpha, and wants to settle with someone who could just provide for her & give her kids. That's a horrible place to be in for a guy if the woman deep down views you that way. I wouldn't want to be with a woman who would have never ever given me a chance in the past because she was out "having fun" with all the "bad boy" type of guys.

[Negative Nancy]

So, you want to find a guy you would have never given a chance to in the past when you were younger to settle down with & have kids? No offense, but that's absolutely the worst position to put a guy in. NO man wants to be the "settle guy".

 

First of all, men do the same. In their youth they all want to party around like frat boys and want to sample as many girls as possible & tell young girls all the same stories - "not ready to settle down yet". Most men are only ready to settle down in their late 20s and 30s, yet they complain when women do the same - although women's reasons are often different from men: who is a young woman in her early 20s supposed to settle down with? The young men her age all, like I said, want to party and serious relationships and settling down isn't even on their minds. So if a woman wants to settle down at 20, who is she supposed to do that with? An older man, you say? But wouldn't that be the exact same scenario you accuse women of in your quote above - that men don't want to settle down in THEIR youth either, and only when they are older?

 

Second of all, women don't settle anymore than men "settle" when they chase the hot, young, flaky college girls during their youth and only later on want to find an average plain jane with good mother & wife qualities (as quidproquo89 admitted above).

[NJ123]

First of all, men do the same. In their youth they all want to party around like frat boys and want to sample as many girls as possible & tell young girls all the same stories - "not ready to settle down yet". Most men are only ready to settle down in their late 20s and 30s, yet they complain when women do the same - although women's reasons are often different from men: who is a young woman in her early 20s supposed to settle down with? The young men her age all, like I said, want to party and serious relationships and settling down isn't even on their minds. So if a woman wants to settle down at 20, who is she supposed to do that with? An older man, you say? But wouldn't that be the exact same scenario you accuse women of in your quote above - that men don't want to settle down in THEIR youth either, and only when they are older?

 

Second of all, women don't settle anymore than men "settle" when they chase the hot, young, flaky college girls during their youth and only later on want to find an average plain jane with good mother & wife qualities (as quidproquo89 admitted above).

 

Of course men do the same. But it's the same scenario, a woman should'nt get with a guy whom he would have never given a chance to in the past. That would be the guy settling just because he thinks she'd be the best mom to his kids. Why do you think you see so many threads about "I'm turned off about their past". "Or should I ask about their past". I guess you have no problem with settling for someone, but absolutely would have not even looked at them at one point. I wouldn't want to be that guy.

[SummerDreams]

what i'm saying is the guy will never know that she doesn't view her husband as alpha, and wants to settle with someone who could just provide for her & give her kids. That's a horrible place to be in for a guy if the woman deep down views you that way. I wouldn't want to be with a woman who would have never ever given me a chance in the past because she was out "having fun" with all the "bad boy" type of guys.

 

Of course men do the same. But it's the same scenario, a woman should'nt get with a guy whom he would have never given a chance to in the past. That would be the guy settling just because he thinks she'd be the best mom to his kids. Why do you think you see so many threads about "I'm turned off about their past". "Or should I ask about their past". I guess you have no problem with settling for someone, but absolutely would have not even looked at them at one point. I wouldn't want to be that guy.

 

I'm sorry but if a guy in his 30s or 40s would feel offended that a woman would choose him cause she'd consider him a good husband and father, then this man is not mature or serious enough for this woman. If a guy would tell me that he thinks I'm the one for him cause he thinks I'll be a good wife and mother, I'd be deeply honored and jump with joy. An alpha male for me equals with the bad guy and I was stupid enough to have my share of bad guys in my twenties, so I'll pass to them now. What you find so honoring (to be the guy the woman will have fun with) I find offending. I want to forget the bad guys I had fun with and I wish I was smarter and more experienced to have passed on them back then.

 

What en misunderstand when they hear a woman wants to choose a man and settle down and have a family is that this doesn't mean she doesn't want them physically or she doesn't find them desirable. It just means that she chooses this man also with her mind and not only with her heart. If this is offending to some men, they should stick to the "fun" girls and leave the good guys who are ready to commit to the good girls who are ready to commit as well.

[Cristo]

I disagree. I want a man who is human and he shows it. I want to know that he is sensitive and he can love me and he can be a good father in the future. The alpha males you describe are for young women in their twenties who just want to have fun. I've gone past the times when I only wanted fun. Now I want a partner and a father for my future kids.

 

So, you want to find a guy you would have never given a chance to in the past when you were younger to settle down with & have kids? No offense, but that's absolutely the worst position to put a guy in. NO man wants to be the "settle guy".

 

This is definitely a good point.

 

SummerDreams, it sounds like you want alpha guys for sex and provider guys for marriage. This is highly offensive and if a decent guy comes along in the future and discovers your scheme, he may leave you for it.

 

 

what i'm saying is the guy will never know that she doesn't view her husband as alpha, and wants to settle with someone who could just provide for her & give her kids. That's a horrible place to be in for a guy if the woman deep down views you that way. I wouldn't want to be with a woman who would have never ever given me a chance in the past because she was out "having fun" with all the "bad boy" type of guys.

 

Absolutely.

 

Unfortunately, I see too many men that fall into this category. It's clear that the woman settled for him and, in some cases, is not even really into the guy. It's obvious to everyone but that guy.

 

I never want to be that guy. That's for sure.

[NJ123]

I'm sorry but if a guy in his 30s or 40s would feel offended that a woman would choose him cause she'd consider him a good husband and father, then this man is not mature or serious enough for this woman. If a guy would tell me that he thinks I'm the one for him cause he thinks I'll be a good wife and mother, I'd be deeply honored and jump with joy. An alpha male for me equals with the bad guy and I was stupid enough to have my share of bad guys in my twenties, so I'll pass to them now. What you find so honoring (to be the guy the woman will have fun with) I find offending. I want to forget the bad guys I had fun with and I wish I was smarter and more experienced to have passed on them back then.

 

What en misunderstand when they hear a woman wants to choose a man and settle down and have a family is that this doesn't mean she doesn't want them physically or she doesn't find them desirable. It just means that she chooses this man also with her mind and not only with her heart. If this is offending to some men, they should stick to the "fun" girls and leave the good guys who are ready to commit to the good girls who are ready to commit as well.

 

But you flat out said you wouldn't view your husband as alpha. What more needs to be said about it? That would make so many guys feel like complete **** if you view them as some beta just to provide for you. I'm saying it again, no man wants to be in that position unless their some clueless beta.

[Cristo]

First of all, men do the same. In their youth they all want to party around like frat boys and want to sample as many girls as possible & tell young girls all the same stories - "not ready to settle down yet". Most men are only ready to settle down in their late 20s and 30s, yet they complain when women do the same - although women's reasons are often different from men: who is a young woman in her early 20s supposed to settle down with? The young men her age all, like I said, want to party and serious relationships and settling down isn't even on their minds. So if a woman wants to settle down at 20, who is she supposed to do that with? An older man, you say? But wouldn't that be the exact same scenario you accuse women of in your quote above - that men don't want to settle down in THEIR youth either, and only when they are older?

 

Second of all, women don't settle anymore than men "settle" when they chase the hot, young, flaky college girls during their youth and only later on want to find an average plain jane with good mother & wife qualities (as quidproquo89 admitted above).

 

The difference between men and women here (and I'm sorry, but this cannot be ignored) is the biological clock.

 

Women only have a set number of years where they can have children with relative ease (in GENERAL, women start to have difficulty conceiving in their mid-30s), whereas men have far longer.

 

So, if women want children, they should be thinking about that even in their early 20s.

 

Sorry, but social movements can't change biology.

[Cristo]

But you flat out said you wouldn't view your husband as alpha. What more needs to be said about it? That would make so many guys feel like complete **** if you view them as some beta just to provide for you. I'm saying it again, no man wants to be in that position unless their some clueless beta.

 

Agreed. To me, this sounds like she's saying that she wouldn't be sexually attracted to him, which is a big problem, but would only use him as a provider.

[NJ123]

Agreed. To me, this sounds like she's saying that she wouldn't be sexually attracted to him, which is a big problem, but would only use him as a provider.

 

absolutely agree.

[SummerDreams]

Agreed. To me, this sounds like she's saying that she wouldn't be sexually attracted to him, which is a big problem, but would only use him as a provider.

 

I didn't know only the alpha males are able to turn on a woman. Anyway, lets leave this alpha - beta male thing and use different words, I am talking about the bad and the good guys, the bad being the ones who want to party and have fun and not commit and the good being the ones who respect the woman and are able to commit and love her.

 

Anyway my bf knows from day 1 that what I want is a man who will be a good father and he appreciates me and respect me for that.

 

Would you be happier if a woman would tell you "well I hate kids, I just want to have fun in life"? Would you take this kind of woman seriously?

[NJ123]

I didn't know only the alpha males are able to turn on a woman. Anyway, lets leave this alpha - beta male thing and use different words, I am talking about the bad and the good guys, the bad being the ones who want to party and have fun and not commit and the good being the ones who respect the woman and are able to commit and love her.

 

Anyway my bf knows from day 1 that what I want is a man who will be a good father and he appreciates me and respect me for that.

 

Would you be happier if a woman would tell you "well I hate kids, I just want to have fun in life"? Would you take this kind of woman seriously?

 

answer this honestly. would you tell your boyfriend the exact same thing you just said in this thread? if the answer is no than boy do i feel bad for that guy.

[Cristo]

I didn't know only the alpha males are able to turn on a woman. Anyway, lets leave this alpha - beta male thing and use different words, I am talking about the bad and the good guys, the bad being the ones who want to party and have fun and not commit and the good being the ones who respect the woman and are able to commit and love her.

 

Anyway my bf knows from day 1 that what I want is a man who will be a good father and he appreciates me and respect me for that.

 

Would you be happier if a woman would tell you "well I hate kids, I just want to have fun in life"? Would you take this kind of woman seriously?

 

No, but I would also have difficulty believing a woman that spent her twenties partying and not really thinking about her future, only to completely change her views on men and dating when she hit 30 and her biological clock started ticking.

 

Sounds sketchy.

[NJ123]

No, but I would also have difficulty believing a woman that spent her twenties partying and not really thinking about her future, only to completely change her views on men and dating when she hit 30 and her biological clock started ticking.

 

Sounds sketchy.

 

lots of women do this. you just have to be smart enough not to be that guy. I'd rather be single in my 30s & 40s than to be with someone whos just using me to provide for them because i'm seen as a good guy who could raise kids with them. no thanks.

[SummerDreams]

answer this honestly. would you tell your boyfriend the exact same thing you just said in this thread? if the answer is no than boy do i feel bad for that guy.

 

I have told him from day 1 "I chose you cause you are a good person and I know you'll be a good father one day" and he appreciated my honesty.

 

If you feel bad for him, then you can't (or don't want to) be a man who will be trusted by a woman and make her feel secure.

 

It's simple: you see this as a bad thing, I see it as a good thing. Lets agree we disagree.

[Cristo]

I have told him from day 1 "I chose you cause you are a good person and I know you'll be a good father one day" and he appreciated my honesty.

 

If you feel bad for him, then you can't (or don't want to) be a man who will be trusted by a woman and make her feel secure.

 

It's simple: you see this as a bad thing, I see it as a good thing. Lets agree we disagree.

 

Why does it have to be one or the other?

 

I'd prefer to be a man that's BOTH sexually attractive to a woman and trustworthy.

 

But, if I had to choose one, I'd prefer that she be really attracted to me, since that will likely last longer. After all, men need security too these days since divorce laws are against us.

[SummerDreams]

No, but I would also have difficulty believing a woman that spent her twenties partying and not really thinking about her future, only to completely change her views on men and dating when she hit 30 and her biological clock started ticking.

 

Sounds sketchy.

 

It's not sketchy, it's plain stupidity. In their 20s, men and women are under the illusion they'll live forever so they act like they don't care time passes, they think they have time for having fun and being with people who are not good enough but heck, they are fun to be around. As people grow older and realize they won't live forever, they start wondering if their choices so far have been right and they realize they can't dedicate their lives in having fun. It's called growing up and getting more mature. A clock ticking for women cause this realization to come sooner and to be stricter. Biology makes women want to have babies and search for a male to provide for her and her babies. The fact that in the last 50 years things have started to change doesn't mean we will eliminate biology.

 

A man in my opinion should respect a woman who is honest to admit that she has been stupid in the past partying with immature jerks but now she has grown up and she knows what she wants, and that's a family. It's an honor, in my opinion, if a woman tells a man "I consider you good enough to have babies with you and raise them together". If some men see it as an insult, that they are not desirable or sexual enough, that's their problem and as I said before, just keep on partying with the girls who don't want kids and leave the good girls to be found by mature and good guys. Simple as that.

 

lots of women do this. you just have to be smart enough not to be that guy. I'd rather be single in my 30s & 40s than to be with someone whos just using me to provide for them because i'm seen as a good guy who could raise kids with them. no thanks.

 

You call it smart, I call it immature.

[SummerDreams]

Why does it have to be one or the other?

 

I'd prefer to be a man that's BOTH sexually attractive to a woman and trustworthy.

 

I never said that a good guy can't be sexually attractive. You chose to ignore it.

 

But, if I had to choose one, I'd prefer that she be really attracted to me, since that will likely last longer. After all, men need security too these days since divorce laws are against us.

 

"Really attracted to you" does not give her security and stability, nor it pays bills, nor it raises kids.

 

I respect your choice, please respect mine.

[NJ123]

I have told him from day 1 "I chose you cause you are a good person and I know you'll be a good father one day" and he appreciated my honesty.

 

If you feel bad for him, then you can't (or don't want to) be a man who will be trusted by a woman and make her feel secure.

 

It's simple: you see this as a bad thing, I see it as a good thing. Lets agree we disagree.

 

yeah, but you didn't say you view him as a beta did you? I just wouldn't want to be in the position you put your guy in. Like Cristo said you seem to want to just settle for a guy before your biological clock runs out. And you know with the guys you normally date can't provide for you so your going for a guy you don't naturally view as someone you want to be with because he'll be your provider.

[Cristo]

"Really attracted to you" does not give her security and stability, nor it pays bills, nor it raises kids.

 

I agree.

 

I'm a guy that has security and stability. However, as I previously stated, recent changes in society have made it so the man also needs a sense of security and stability from his wife.

 

To me, that is intense attraction. If a woman is not intensely attracted to me, I would think that she is settling for me because she is getting old and anyone will do. Why wouldn't I think this? Why wouldn't any man think this?

[quidproquo89]

First of all, men do the same. In their youth they all want to party around like frat boys and want to sample as many girls as possible & tell young girls all the same stories - "not ready to settle down yet". Most men are only ready to settle down in their late 20s and 30s, yet they complain when women do the same - although women's reasons are often different from men: who is a young woman in her early 20s supposed to settle down with? The young men her age all, like I said, want to party and serious relationships and settling down isn't even on their minds. So if a woman wants to settle down at 20, who is she supposed to do that with? An older man, you say? But wouldn't that be the exact same scenario you accuse women of in your quote above - that men don't want to settle down in THEIR youth either, and only when they are older?

 

Second of all, women don't settle anymore than men "settle" when they chase the hot, young, flaky college girls during their youth and only later on want to find an average plain jane with good mother & wife qualities (as quidproquo89 admitted above).

 

It was to do with what I wanted not my appeal and attractiveness, I'm no plain Jane (man equivielant). I have never been a party goer, more of chilled out pub meet etc. I'm not alone in that

[NJ123]

It's not sketchy, it's plain stupidity. In their 20s, men and women are under the illusion they'll live forever so they act like they don't care time passes, they think they have time for having fun and being with people who are not good enough but heck, they are fun to be around. As people grow older and realize they won't live forever, they start wondering if their choices so far have been right and they realize they can't dedicate their lives in having fun. It's called growing up and getting more mature. A clock ticking for women cause this realization to come sooner and to be stricter. Biology makes women want to have babies and search for a male to provide for her and her babies. The fact that in the last 50 years things have started to change doesn't mean we will eliminate biology.

 

A man in my opinion should respect a woman who is honest to admit that she has been stupid in the past partying with immature jerks but now she has grown up and she knows what she wants, and that's a family. It's an honor, in my opinion, if a woman tells a man "I consider you good enough to have babies with you and raise them together". If some men see it as an insult, that they are not desirable or sexual enough, that's their problem and as I said before, just keep on partying with the girls who don't want kids and leave the good girls to be found by mature and good guys. Simple as that.

 

 

 

You call it smart, I call it immature.

 

sorry, but that's called a red flag to guys if you say you were with complete *******s in the past. A lot of guys would feel that's sketchy, when your all of a sudden trying to get with a good guy. I know someone who went on a date with a girl & she was talking trash about her ex among other things. he never went on another date with her due to knowing he'd be seen as some beta to her.