whichwayisup Posted October 23, 2014 Posted October 23, 2014 Definitely to gain perspective. It may eventually lead to divorce, if that's what's needed, but that is not the goal. We've discussed some of these things, but it's only been two days. Does anyone have suggestions on the types of ground rules we need to decide on? Forgiveness, understanding, compassion and putting one another in each others shoes. No lying, no breaking NC, no exOM, no dating anybody else. If your intentions are to work hard apart so you two can be together again, then while separated, go to marriage counseling as well. 2
Mr. Lucky Posted October 23, 2014 Posted October 23, 2014 Ground Rules (partial list): 1) 100% no contact (NC) with the former affair partner. 2) No dating of other people until you decide about divorce or not. 3) Schedule date night at least once a week. For it to be a real date night, you must treat each date night as a 1st date. Ask yourself would I talk about this topic if I want a 2nd date with this person? If the answer is no, then do not talk about that topic; that means no talking about the affair, bills, etc. Go to new restaurants. Do new things. Have fun with each other. 4) Schedule time to talk about serious topics at least once a week. Write down what you want to talk about, and how to talk about it in the least hurtful way possible. 5) Have a no trying to hurt each other rule. That means no shouting at, or insulting of the other person. Start phrasing things, even points of conflict, the way you would phrase it to a best friend. 6) Stop trying to win each argument and start trying to do the right thing. If both of you actually do this, there will be no losers. 7) If you decide on divorce. there should be at least a 60 day cooling off period where you continue to follow these rules, so that you can change your minds without more complications. This is a very important rule, as there is a good chance that one or both of you will get hurt and ask for a divorce only to want change your mind when one or both say that they are sorry. Hate to be a pessimist but, were a couple capable of observing and living by these rules, they probably wouldn't be separated. I'd look for some alone time for each of you to figure out what you want... Mr. Lucky 3
Try Posted October 23, 2014 Posted October 23, 2014 Hate to be a pessimist but, were a couple capable of observing and living by these rules, they probably wouldn't be separated. The issue is not about them being "capable" of living by these rules, because they are capable. The issue is that they have not until now even thought about living by these rules. 1
drifter777 Posted October 24, 2014 Posted October 24, 2014 Definitely to gain perspective. It may eventually lead to divorce, if that's what's needed, but that is not the goal. We've discussed some of these things, but it's only been two days. Does anyone have suggestions on the types of ground rules we need to decide on? I think this "decide what the goal" of this separation is not realistic right now. Everything is still too raw and you both are a mess right now. Its a good idea but just not yet. And if you guys want to date then do it. The one thing you absolutely must agree upon is whether you are going to date others. Most couples end up avoiding this detail and assume their spouse will not see others. Then one of them has sex with someone else and uses the "but we were separated" defense and any chance of reconciling drops to near zero. 3
PegNosePete Posted October 24, 2014 Posted October 24, 2014 Why? (10 characters) Because if it turns into divorce your husband will simply change the locks and you won't be able to get back in. He will say he needs to house to meet his housing needs, whereas your housing needs are already met by wherever you're currently living. He'll get a much bigger share of the house's equity. By moving out you're severely prejudicing yourself financially. It's different in different jurisdictions so make sure to see a lawyer in your area before moving out, to understand the financial implications of doing so. First consultation is FREE so why not? 1
gaius Posted October 24, 2014 Posted October 24, 2014 10 years is a long time, a lot of history and stability to give up. Part of you is screaming at the top of your lungs to get out though. =/ And neither of you are really listening if you're still talking about dating each other and stuff. You need to get back out there and remember what it's like to be with someone that you respect compulsive. This is no way for a woman to live.
Author compulsivedancer Posted October 24, 2014 Author Posted October 24, 2014 Because if it turns into divorce your husband will simply change the locks and you won't be able to get back in. He will say he needs to house to meet his housing needs, whereas your housing needs are already met by wherever you're currently living. He'll get a much bigger share of the house's equity. By moving out you're severely prejudicing yourself financially. It's different in different jurisdictions so make sure to see a lawyer in your area before moving out, to understand the financial implications of doing so. First consultation is FREE so why not? There's not really any equity in the house. We just bought it last winter. I'm not too concerned.
velvette Posted October 24, 2014 Posted October 24, 2014 10 years is a long time, a lot of history and stability to give up. Part of you is screaming at the top of your lungs to get out though. =/ And neither of you are really listening if you're still talking about dating each other and stuff. You need to get back out there and remember what it's like to be with someone that you respect compulsive. This is no way for a woman to live. I disagree with this. I think instead you both need to respect or learn to respect yourselves as well as each other whether you stay M or not. Both of you deserved to get what you need/want from a M. Sometimes.....rarely imo....that happens automatically. Most of the time, you have to figure out how to make that happen. You're at a point where you have blown figuring out......both of you. The first step is knowing what you need/want. The second is ensuring those needs stem from a healthy place. Its fine to want financial security. But, if its a need that is driven by some unhealthy past issue you will be unable to figure out how to achieve it in a way that makes you happy. Your emotions will blind you to solutions. You are both hurt, resentful that you aren't getting what you need from the M. But, at the same time you are ignoring that you are each your own worst enemy as far as not getting what you want. IMO marriage counseling can be dangerous at this point, because most counselors will just teach you how to compromise. Who wants that? The person who compromises will be unhappy and the cycle will start all over again. The goal should be instead to find other solutions that make you both happy. For any problem, there are a ton of different solutions. Until you both know what you want this M to look like and whether or not you agree the other persons needs are valid(whether or not you know how to get there at this point), you will be wasting your time. 2
2sunny Posted October 24, 2014 Posted October 24, 2014 So if you muddy the waters by dating what changes for you two? Since you decided to separate why not take some extended time apart to learn about yourselves as separate people from being a couple? Do you know what the goal is in this decision to separate? 1
velvette Posted October 24, 2014 Posted October 24, 2014 So if you muddy the waters by dating what changes for you two? Since you decided to separate why not take some extended time apart to learn about yourselves as separate people from being a couple? Do you know what the goal is in this decision to separate? I think this is a good idea, but I also don't think it has to be all or nothing. You have to get back to the place you started which I assume was "in love" in order to have the motivation to do the work required to achieve the things I described above. That does eventually require time spent together doing the things that "in love" people do. But, it is probably useful to "detox" from each other. Spend some time looking at where you yourselves went wrong, what youre angry about, resentful of, as well as what you want. Separation may also be motivating to finding those "in love" feelings again. Because you also need to think about what you each value about the other. Still, I don't agree it has to be NC or radio silence unless you both want that. Sharing your individual process can be healing if you can do it respectfully. Sometimes discussions that would result in World War III or some other destructive outcome can be more civil if you do them in writing via a journal you share, or email's you sleep on over night before you hit send or even a phone call. 1
Try Posted October 24, 2014 Posted October 24, 2014 So if you muddy the waters by dating what changes for you two? What changes if they date? Everything because whatever they are doing now, they are doing it wrong. If you doubt this, read my earlier post where I listed some rules on how they should proceed going forward, and tell me that they were doing this. If they are going to make it work, they need to start doing something like this now, if not with my rules then with other rules that give them a chance to reconnect. Since you decided to separate why not take some extended time apart to learn about yourselves as separate people from being a couple? What you are recommending will almost certainly lead to them being divorced. If that is not their goal, they should not do this.
gaius Posted October 24, 2014 Posted October 24, 2014 I disagree with this. I think instead you both need to respect or learn to respect yourselves as well as each other whether you stay M or not. Both of you deserved to get what you need/want from a M. Sometimes.....rarely imo....that happens automatically. Most of the time, you have to figure out how to make that happen. You're at a point where you have blown figuring out......both of you. The first step is knowing what you need/want. The second is ensuring those needs stem from a healthy place. Its fine to want financial security. But, if its a need that is driven by some unhealthy past issue you will be unable to figure out how to achieve it in a way that makes you happy. Your emotions will blind you to solutions. You are both hurt, resentful that you aren't getting what you need from the M. But, at the same time you are ignoring that you are each your own worst enemy as far as not getting what you want. IMO marriage counseling can be dangerous at this point, because most counselors will just teach you how to compromise. Who wants that? The person who compromises will be unhappy and the cycle will start all over again. The goal should be instead to find other solutions that make you both happy. For any problem, there are a ton of different solutions. Until you both know what you want this M to look like and whether or not you agree the other persons needs are valid(whether or not you know how to get there at this point), you will be wasting your time. You can't logically learn or decide to respect someone. =/ You either do or you don't based on their actions. Its a primal emotion. I honestly don't think I've ever run into a case where I got the vibe the cheater really had a healthy respect for the partner that took them back. I've met those that have tried to resign themselves to it and it always feels more like you're talking to a single person. Like they're searching for that connection and excitement somewhere still. Even if they've accepted the idea of not cheating again It just strikes me as soul shearing for both of them. One having to make jokes about the other man hopefully not getting to enjoy his wife in sexual positions this time around and the other feeling compelled to reach out to him in the first place. If it couldn't be fixed after the first wave of disrespect hit how is it going to now after it's been doubled up? You can't jusy decide to fix things. It doesn't work like that. 2
aliveagain Posted October 25, 2014 Posted October 25, 2014 I haven't posted in a while, my heart goes out to the two of you because regardless of what side of infidelity your on breaking up a marriage hurts everyone close to you. This is not a slam but what possessed you to contact OM? Did you want to get caught? Were you really just trying to get out of your marriage? Dig deep before you answer these questions because honesty will help you both to survive this. 2
trippi1432 Posted October 25, 2014 Posted October 25, 2014 Nothing forced ever has anything good come of it....I'm sure that this wasn't CD and CM's beginning's ..but forcing each other's position without really listening to each other will be their undoing.
trippi1432 Posted October 25, 2014 Posted October 25, 2014 I never said that or believed that. So where do YOU go from here? Granted you have choices; but so does CM, you took a "step"....dipped the toe in the water to see if it was warm, lukewarm..etc....been there with my ex too, I've not been on that other side; but I've seen the panic, the anxiety, not being able to give it up. Being honest in what you want is the first step to being free.... 1
velvette Posted October 25, 2014 Posted October 25, 2014 You can't logically learn or decide to respect someone. =/ You either do or you don't based on their actions. Its a primal emotion. I honestly don't think I've ever run into a case where I got the vibe the cheater really had a healthy respect for the partner that took them back. I've met those that have tried to resign themselves to it and it always feels more like you're talking to a single person. Like they're searching for that connection and excitement somewhere still. Even if they've accepted the idea of not cheating again It just strikes me as soul shearing for both of them. One having to make jokes about the other man hopefully not getting to enjoy his wife in sexual positions this time around and the other feeling compelled to reach out to him in the first place. If it couldn't be fixed after the first wave of disrespect hit how is it going to now after it's been doubled up? You can't jusy decide to fix things. It doesn't work like that. Sure you can. Emotions are not primal, they are driven by thought. If you are acting solely on emotion, it just means you are not aware of or paying attention to the thoughts that precede the emotion. If your emotions are leading you to do things that are making you unhappy, its time to start looking at your thoughts and taking them apart to determine if they are valid. People decide to fix all kinds of things all the time and just do it, so its silly to say you cant. It does work like that and in fact that's the easiest way to change something..........decide to change it. That's where you start rather than just going along on auto pilot hoping love conquers all. 2
drifter777 Posted October 25, 2014 Posted October 25, 2014 Sure you can. Emotions are not primal, they are driven by thought. If you are acting solely on emotion, it just means you are not aware of or paying attention to the thoughts that precede the emotion. If your emotions are leading you to do things that are making you unhappy, its time to start looking at your thoughts and taking them apart to determine if they are valid. People decide to fix all kinds of things all the time and just do it, so its silly to say you cant. It does work like that and in fact that's the easiest way to change something..........decide to change it. That's where you start rather than just going along on auto pilot hoping love conquers all. What you are saying CAN and does work for some people for some issues. Its called cognitive therapy and has been around for decades. If it worked for everyone the treatment for depression would have a 100% cure rate. See, the problem is that some thoughts and life experiences have been around for so long they have a hardwired path to the brain that cannot be changed. The emotions brought on by these thoughts can be limited with lots of therapy and years of work. CM & CD: Rather then spend years trying to change your emotional responses, i believe starting fresh with other people is a much quicker and more effective way to heal. You've both learned a lot about who you are and how you want to live and those lessons are what you each take with you. Thank God there are no children...
trippi1432 Posted October 26, 2014 Posted October 26, 2014 CM & CD: Rather then spend years trying to change your emotional responses, i believe starting fresh with other people is a much quicker and more effective way to heal. You've both learned a lot about who you are and how you want to live and those lessons are what you each take with you. Thank God there are no children... Not to argue...but no one can start fresh with someone else unless they aren't wanting to deal with themselves. Does not matter if you are the BS or the WS, both need to deal with themselves first. Calling a marriage over two days ago isn't learning a lot ....they both still have a few 10K's to run emotionally. Agreed...if children were involved, it would be much harder...but it still takes time to find that part of yourself that can carry a healthy relationship in either case.
Author compulsivedancer Posted October 26, 2014 Author Posted October 26, 2014 I moved my stuff to a friend's house yesterday. H just left, and I won't see him again until the New Year unless absolutely necessary. I've got to finish up packing everything that'll go with me when I have a new place. H wants it all done so that he doesn't have to look at it when I'm not here. We had a last night together, a nice night with a good dinner. It was so surreal. It's so bizarre to separate from someone when you both still love each other so much. It just feels wrong. We both have to kind if remind ourselves that it's for the best. We decided to give ourselves until the New Year to not talk. We won't date anyone else or each other during that time and try to sort ourselves out and adjust to life without each other.
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