Author katielee Posted October 17, 2014 Author Posted October 17, 2014 herenorthere - you and I will never agree that I am to blame for all of this. So I should just sit back and take affair after affair from him? um no. He's responsible for his actions. There is no even here. If I wanted it even I'd have another affair and that is not how to handle this. And, I didn't get caught either. jeez. I respect my husband for all the great years we've had together. That's the only way to look at this and be together.
Blackknight Posted October 17, 2014 Posted October 17, 2014 I read your thread not knowing the full story and thinking, like my own story, another example that cheating is often repeated. But now that I see you cheated first I would say that does add a whole different dynamic. I would think the first time would have been easier to forgive because you had cheated first. Almost an IOU. Second time would have been a wtf I thought we were past this and perhaps closer to what a faithful betrayed spouse would feel. Therefore I don't know it is that he had "two" affairs but rather you are someone who by nature have a hard time forgiving. Some people forgive themselves easier than others. Some people forgive others easier than themselves. And some people never are even upset with themselves enough to think they need self forgiveness. We are all very different people.
peaksandvalleys Posted October 17, 2014 Posted October 17, 2014 How do the rest of you feel about trust after betrayal? I wrote about this earlier today... I'm not so sure that trust is a choice. If you have to take a leap of faith to trust someone is that really trust? Or is it hope? Because to me trusting someone is knowing they have my back. What I have with my husband - I know he wants to be a good person but nothing would surprise me. I could make a decision to always assume the best (most times I do) but that again is something different than trust, IMO. When he drives to work every day (both OW work in the same town he does) - well, I'm just tired of thinking about what he may or may not do. It's up to him to stay on the straight and narrow - again, not trust. I think the loss of trust from betrayal is gravely underestimated. I think many BS just decide not to think about it. . If the WS does it again then they are gone. Now, that is trusting themselves to know what to do if that situation arises, but it's not really trusting the WS. It's hoping the WS has taken care of their crap so they don't act out again. But really knowing down in your gut that your spouse has your back - I see some of that after a betrayal and in recovery, but not a lot. I won't trust anyone again. I will now conduct my private life like I have conducted my business life.
Author katielee Posted October 17, 2014 Author Posted October 17, 2014 he absolutely did have two affairs. And they had everything to do with wanting to escape his pain, of which I'm not in charge of healing. If that was the case I could blame my affair on his emotionally abandoning me. And I won't. Because it was all about me and my failure to cope with ANY kind of pain. Maybe I did give him a freebie. I certainly understand the pain he was in. I have forgiven him for that. But I don't understand how he could see the pain I was in and chose to do it again. And that's where I'm stuck. And I think I'm a pretty good forgiver, considering the circumstances. If I wasn't I would have thrown him out, divorced him, had another affair, or said we're moving or I'm done. I'm being very accepting of the bulk of all this.
Blackknight Posted October 17, 2014 Posted October 17, 2014 he absolutely did have two affairs. And they had everything to do with wanting to escape his pain, of which I'm not in charge of healing. If that was the case I could blame my affair on his emotionally abandoning me. And I won't. Because it was all about me and my failure to cope with ANY kind of pain. Maybe I did give him a freebie. I certainly understand the pain he was in. I have forgiven him for that. But I don't understand how he could see the pain I was in and chose to do it again. And that's where I'm stuck. And I think I'm a pretty good forgiver, considering the circumstances. If I wasn't I would have thrown him out, divorced him, had another affair, or said we're moving or I'm done. I'm being very accepting of the bulk of all this. What I meant was you might still be in this place if it had only been his second affair. Not yours and not his first. Also, he did see your pain but I am sure he felt you deserved it. Which is wrong. But it still changes the dynamic. And, as someone who saw my husband's pain and still broke Nc. Some of us are just f'd up. We take risks with other people's emotions in the heat of the moment when we shouldn't.
TrustedthenBusted Posted October 21, 2014 Posted October 21, 2014 I didn't read all the responses yet, but I will say that I will never trust anyone 100% again not to cheat. I think it's just foolish to do so. Under the right circumstances, anyone is capable. All of us included. That said, there are other areas where I trust people completely. I trust my babysitter not to kill my kids. Trust my mechanic to do good work on my bikes. Even trust my wife to pay our bills on time, and not put too much sugar in the kids lunches. But affairs? I'll never believe anyone ever again who says anything other than "never say never" 3
badkarma2013 Posted October 21, 2014 Posted October 21, 2014 I didn't read all the responses yet, but I will say that I will never trust anyone 100% again not to cheat. I think it's just foolish to do so. Under the right circumstances, anyone is capable. All of us included. That said, there are other areas where I trust people completely. I trust my babysitter not to kill my kids. Trust my mechanic to do good work on my bikes. Even trust my wife to pay our bills on time, and not put too much sugar in the kids lunches. But affairs? I'll never believe anyone ever again who says anything other than "never say never" A quote from Grand Funk Railroads..."Sin is a good mans brother" You tell me that I don't Then I say I won't But then I might Kinda sums it up for all Cheating spouses...
badkarma2013 Posted October 21, 2014 Posted October 21, 2014 Originally Posted by bigman1 As I read these posts, what I see is this, everyone is going to walk with an emotional "limp" after infidelity. Some more pronounced than others. Those that stay because they are co-dependent, or scared of going on their own, or lack self esteem stay because they "have to". Some try to hide behind what is best for the kids, but in reality, they just can't pull the trigger and I am sad for them. They seem more resigned to a miserable or barely pleasant existence. Truly sad people who don't realize their worth. Others stay because they choose to. They look at the carnage, and recognize that they could walk away or limp away and ultimately would be fine. They have decided that they want to stay married to their unfaithful partner, not that they need to stay married. I respect them. I view that as a choice and not a default position. Choice is nice as it puts you in control. It is still a hard walk, but one that they chose If, somewhere along the lines they can't handle the mental aspect of it, I don't think that it is a failure on their part to cope. I think it is a recognition that in order to be a whole person, they need to end it. Sometimes you have to remove the foreign body out of your foot to walk right. That is not weakness, it is an intelligent decision on how to prevent further damage. I get upset at talk about a betrayed having the strength to stay, as if leaving is weakness. It takes strength to stay or to leave. In the end, you don't know how you are going to act until it hits you. I just think that those who decide out of a position of weakness are the most miserable of them all. They love, sleep with, despise and are bound to their trigger. They remind me of drug addicts who want to quit but can't endure the withdrawal symptoms. 1
Man Mountain Makino Posted October 21, 2014 Posted October 21, 2014 I think trust has almost nothing to do with people cheating. People who say 'we have trust' may as well be saying 'it's Tuesday,' because that has as much to do with cheating as 'trust.' Most people who cheat for the first time today probably didn't intend to cheat today and therefore by the trust standard, they were perfectly trustworthy. People who cheat for the second time today probably did intend to cheat today, and their partners probably thought they had trust. Cheating has much more to do with opportunity than trust. Trust in trustis vvery often misplaced. 1
Copelandsanity Posted October 22, 2014 Posted October 22, 2014 I think trust has almost nothing to do with people cheating. People who say 'we have trust' may as well be saying 'it's Tuesday,' because that has as much to do with cheating as 'trust.' Most people who cheat for the first time today probably didn't intend to cheat today and therefore by the trust standard, they were perfectly trustworthy. People who cheat for the second time today probably did intend to cheat today, and their partners probably thought they had trust. Cheating has much more to do with opportunity than trust. Trust in trustis vvery often misplaced. I disagree. Cheating is a choice. I had a couple of opportunities to cheat when I was married. I chose not to not do it because I loved my wife and the potential consequences. 1
Spark1111 Posted October 22, 2014 Posted October 22, 2014 I trust myself. Period. Everything, every one else? I take it one day, one hour, one minute at a time.... Sound cynical? yes, it is. But as long as this philosophy makes me feel safe, who cares? Emotional freedom means I do not have to stay; I can support myself; have many friends; would really be okay. looking at any relationship in comparison to my personal strength makes it all okay.
dichotomy Posted October 22, 2014 Posted October 22, 2014 All dogs can bite....some breeds more likely than others but even golden retrievers will bite you under the wrong situation. Try and find a "golden retriever" and try your best avoid the wrong situations. That's life.....its difficult and risky..trust me on this 1
TrustedthenBusted Posted October 22, 2014 Posted October 22, 2014 Look out for Numero Uno, because that's what everyone else does.
badkarma2013 Posted October 22, 2014 Posted October 22, 2014 How do the rest of you feel about trust after betrayal? I wrote about this earlier today... I'm not so sure that trust is a choice. If you have to take a leap of faith to trust someone is that really trust? Or is it hope? Because to me trusting someone is knowing they have my back. What I have with my husband - I know he wants to be a good person but nothing would surprise me. I could make a decision to always assume the best (most times I do) but that again is something different than trust, IMO. When he drives to work every day (both OW work in the same town he does) - well, I'm just tired of thinking about what he may or may not do. It's up to him to stay on the straight and narrow - again, not trust. I think the loss of trust from betrayal is gravely underestimated. I think many BS just decide not to think about it. . If the WS does it again then they are gone. Now, that is trusting themselves to know what to do if that situation arises, but it's not really trusting the WS. It's hoping the WS has taken care of their crap so they don't act out again. But really knowing down in your gut that your spouse has your back - I see some of that after a betrayal and in recovery, but not a lot. RE POST.. About Trust and the.Truth I can agree with ...well alot of what is being said...However...im my case...Are you having an affair with your boss?....dont be silly hes just a friend...LIE Who paid for your gym membership at a country club....The company did...LIE the OM did. Who paid for 2500.00 in new clothes... company expense account...LIE OM did i got her phone and there was no doubt....OMg at the sorrow and anguish THEN but all lies before... when i outed him to his BW....as i have stated before...the pics he showed me from his phone of her doing sexual acts that for years SHE said was disgusting and vile...and worse...And a 1000 other lies.. so i think we all all can see the there are certain variables re truth... BUT.MOST are absolute...YOU DID THOSE THINGS WITH THE OM OR YOU DIDNT...mine did and lied I agree it almost impossiable to find the EMOTIONAL TRUTH as to what they were truly THINKIng at the time or really the WHY...BUT ONE DOES WHAT ONE DOES....you did it or you didnt.....and thats the truth. 1
road Posted October 23, 2014 Posted October 23, 2014 Blind Trust once broken can never be had again. As a broken cup. The pieces can be glued back together and the cup will not leak. Though the cracks will always still be their and always seen. Always jogging the memory of how the cup was broken. So can the trust be repaired in a marriage broken by an affair. It takes time and work. The WS has to be 100% truthful and answer every question the BS has about the affair. The WS has to provide all passwords to all accounts and phone. Never changing the PW's or adding new accounts. The WS must tell the BS all the ways they contacted their AP and shut down all those ways that contact took place. NC must be in place and the BS must be able to verify that there is no breaks in NC. Including indirect breaks in NC as looking at the AP's FB page and internet searches about the AP. The WS must provide information where they are at all times. And it must be verifiable by the BS. By the WS's words and actions repeatedly showing them to be maintaining NC and being honest the trust slowly gets rebuilt. To the point that the BS finds themselves checking up on the WS less and less. Though as the cracks will always be in the cup, the affair can never allow the trust that was there before the affair to return. 2
TrustedthenBusted Posted October 23, 2014 Posted October 23, 2014 Blind Trust once broken can never be had again. As a broken cup. The pieces can be glued back together and the cup will not leak. Though the cracks will always still be their and always seen. Always jogging the memory of how the cup was broken. So can the trust be repaired in a marriage broken by an affair. It takes time and work. The WS has to be 100% truthful and answer every question the BS has about the affair. The WS has to provide all passwords to all accounts and phone. Never changing the PW's or adding new accounts. The WS must tell the BS all the ways they contacted their AP and shut down all those ways that contact took place. NC must be in place and the BS must be able to verify that there is no breaks in NC. Including indirect breaks in NC as looking at the AP's FB page and internet searches about the AP. The WS must provide information where they are at all times. And it must be verifiable by the BS. By the WS's words and actions repeatedly showing them to be maintaining NC and being honest the trust slowly gets rebuilt. To the point that the BS finds themselves checking up on the WS less and less. Though as the cracks will always be in the cup, the affair can never allow the trust that was there before the affair to return. Yep, this is definitely the playbook. And chocked full of sage advice. Although I will just say that personally, the verifying where she is, and that there is no indirect contact etc... that **** got old real fast. I quickly reached a point where I decided I didn't want to spend the rest of my life making sure my wife wasn't cheating on me. So I stopped verifying where she was, stopped looking at her computer history etc... While the trust isn't, and will never again be 100% blind faith, it exists. I trust that she learned her lesson, and is UNLIKELY to ever go down that path again. ( notice I didn't say she wouldn't, only that it is far more unlikely ) So we live now, much like we lived then. If she pulls this stunt again, I'm pretty confident that my now laser-tuned BS detector will pick up on it. She knows the price. Divorce, and lifelong indifference to her existence. If she's ok with that, she will risk it, in which case, she clearly doesn't want to remain in this marriage anyway. I think of us now as living in a birdcage where the door is always open. Stay in, only if you want to. But fly out again, and it shuts forever. 2
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