How much, and how often?

[333unsure]

After a few false starts I'm in my first serious relationship post-divorce and so far it's been mostly pretty fantastic. We've been seeing each other for almost a year; things got relatively serious early on - exclusive after several dates/within a few weeks, and at this point have had a number of positive conversations about the future. I'm overall happy and think he's great. He's in a complicated situation - separated under the same roof, by necessity, and stuck that way for another 6 months or a year. He's introduced me to his friends and it's public knowledge that he's separated, but we've kept our relationship discreet for now because of exes and kids, although not for much longer. We're in agreement on all that - have not had disagreements or conflict over it, although it's made communication a bit imbalanced from time to time (as in, I can't call him but he can call me - that kind of thing).

 

He seems totally and completely happy and good with me and the relationship. The issue I'm having is that lately we've been talking and messaging much less - almost none. I've tried to get that going by sending a message or whatever but there is rarely a reply. I live on my own so we get together, usually late in the evening, a couple of times a week. Don't get me wrong, the sex is amazing and I want to keep that up. Sex has been great through the entire relationship and happens pretty much as often as we can manage, which is usually about 2-3x/wk. I would do it more but that's what time allows and it's enough to keep me (and him) happy.

 

We used to talk on the phone for maybe half an hour every day. Sometimes twice (if so, a short second call). We would message back and forth, usually email. We'd text in the evenings or chat online - not every day, but relatively often. Now, I know that he committed to some work projects that are keeping him very busy, much more so than before. And I'm busy with work, too - we both have pretty demanding jobs. But there's essentially zero communication - maybe a short (5-10 min) phone call a couple of times a week, no response to messages or emails, and despite saying he would, he hasn't arranged his schedule so we have at least one night a week where we see each other early enough in the day to go out and do something together.

 

He tells me how much he loves me and seems genuinely serious about the future. I don't think his feelings for me have changed. But, I'm starting to feel like he doesn't care (I think he does, but not talking with me is not working for me). I am losing interest and feel detached. I keep myself busy, and go out with my friends on a regular basis, so it's not like I'm lonely and he's the only thing I've got going on. I've never been needy in a relationship (although this stuff now is driving me crazy!).

 

I think what I'm looking for, to keep the relationship strong and my feelings for him good, is some daily communication that happens outside the bedroom. The sex is great and I love that connection. I would be happiest if we were able to do that every day! But it's not enough for me. I feel like I'm in the desert, dying of thirst. I end up having feelings that aren't characteristic for me - wondering if he's bored with me, feeling bad about myself or insecure, feeling unloved and as if he doesn't care about me. When we see each other in person I can tell that's not the case, but in the absence of some regular communication, I'm unhappy and getting unhappier all the time.

 

It's going to be a long time, because of his situation, before we can make any significant changes to our situation (living situation, etc.). If we lived together or spent a few evenings a week together and did stuff on the weekends sometimes, I'm sure I'd be involved enough and getting enough communication to not feel this way and not need much if anything in the way of emails and phone calls. But as it is - I'm dying for emotional connection and it is killing my attraction for him. I no longer feel loved in the way that I need to feel loved. It feels like he never thinks about me, except when he's coming over. I don't think those things are true, but what he is doing (well, not doing) is producing those feelings.

 

I just want some daily contact. Some attention and affection. I know that I am giving these things to him, in the way he needs them (which is not the same as what I need and I'm happy to meet his needs in the way he needs to feel loved). I feel that my needs are going unmet and it's going to ruin everything. I've mentioned this to him in a gentle, open, low-key way, and am thinking I need to be more clear and specific. Totally going to do that. But first I wanted some input so as to be sure that the general consensus is this is reasonable and hopefully get suggestions on ways to discuss this with him that will help it be a positive dialogue.

 

I think there are few women who would be happy in a relationship that had turned into basically sex only. I want sex AND communication. I need them both to feel loved. It's only recently that communication has evaporated so completely and I think probably largely because he's so busy, but if the relationship is important, the time can be found, right?

 

Normally I would probably just walk away from the relationship at this point - let the distance grow, see if I was interested in still getting together for sex (but knowing that would not last for me, because his apparent lack of interest/caring (whether true or not) is affecting my feelings and attraction for him), and move on. But I'm serious about this guy and am sure he's serious about me, too. It feels like something that can be fixed so I'm going to talk with him about it again. Hoping for some feedback first. I'm invested, I feel he's worth the effort, and I would very much like this relationship to succeed.

 

TL;DR - How often, in a serious long-term relationship where you see each other in person a couple of times a week (at night and spend almost all of that time having sex), is it reasonable to have some contact, like phone calls or messages, and how much time is it reasonable to spend on that communication, say on a daily or weekly basis?

 

Also any tips on the best ways to talk with him about this would be great.

 

Thanks!!

[Gaeta]

Dear, you have to tell HIM all this. After one year in this relationship don't you think you 2 should share your feelings and struggles?

 

It does not matter how much communication I like, or the next poster likes, what matters is how many YOU need to feel connected in this relationship.

 

Talk to him, explain it to him the same way you explained it to us.

[333unsure]

Dear, you have to tell HIM all this. After one year in this relationship don't you think you 2 should share your feelings and struggles?

 

Yes, of course I will! We do and always have shared openly. This is the first time I feel like I didn't get through to him and so at the next opportunity, I'll be clearer, more specific, and of course open about this. Honestly, I thought I had said enough, and he was understanding and receptive, but nothing changed, so I need to try again. It will be a few days before I see him again, and I want to be prepared to have a positive conversation about it, get a little feedback, and make sure I'm going into the talk with good perspective and understanding.

 

It does not matter how much communication I like, or the next poster likes, what matters is how many YOU need to feel connected in this relationship.

 

That's a good way to think about it and I will remember it.

 

Talk to him, explain it to him the same way you explained it to us.

 

Definitely! Thanks!

[Elle1975]

If he barely contacts you anymore, and you have become the late evening booty call, that's bad news.

 

However, if you really think he's genuinely in love with you, and serious about the future, I'd still keep in mind that he lives under the same roof with his wife and kids, and that the honeymoon period for the two of you has ended.

 

Basically you are sitting at home alone, and he's with his family. He either is dealing with a lot, or he is simply backing off.

 

I am not sure which one. Hopefully it's not the latest.

[333unsure]

If he barely contacts you anymore, and you have become the late evening booty call, that's bad news.

 

However, if you really think he's genuinely in love with you, and serious about the future, I'd still keep in mind that he lives under the same roof with his wife and kids, and that the honeymoon period for the two of you has ended.

 

Basically you are sitting at home alone, and he's with his family. He either is dealing with a lot, or he is simply backing off.

 

I am not sure which one. Hopefully it's not the latest.

 

Thanks for your thoughts. I do think he is genuinely in love with me and serious about the future. When we've discussed when things would happen, he has always followed through.

 

If I had to guess, I'd say that what I think is happening is that he (a) doesn't fully understand how this is making me feel, because he still feels just as connected, (b) doesn't have a clear enough picture of what exactly it is that I need, and © is very, very busy and somewhat overwhelmed and is trying to figure out how to make things work but - not fast enough for me.

 

Obviously it's important for me to clarify (a) and (b) for him and not expect him to figure it out on his own. As for ©, I may need to be more patient, within reason. This hasn't been going on for long and it coincided with the start of his new work projects. I really don't think it's an actual lack of interest or affection (although it has the effect of feeling like that).

 

It's true I'm alone sometimes because I live alone, but as I said I go out with my friends regularly and I have a family, too, that I see and spend time with often (ex and I share custody and have a good relationship as parents to our kids). I'd be lying if I said it never occurs to me that he could change his mind, but he's given me absolutely no reason to think that, and good reason to believe he'll follow through. Not an ideal situation by a long shot, but other than this current communication gap, it has been great (beyond great!) despite the existing complications.

[Ruby Slippers]

He's still married and living with his wife, so however you want to tell the story, this is a relationship where you are essentially the other woman who makes do with short windows of time with him for sex here and there.

 

Many people on this forum have contended that a person needs about 2 years post-divorce to recover and even consider another serious relationship again, and I think it makes sense. Of course, many people will say, "Oh, I was out of the relationship for years before we divorced" and so on, but it doesn't matter. It's still a major change that requires a period of mourning and recuperation.

 

If you're fine with all that and want to continue in spite of it, I would tell him what you've told us here, but in a much simpler and more distilled way - that not having daily contact from him is making you detach and lose interest. Then I wouldn't see him again, period, until he gets back in the pattern of daily contact and you feel secure.

 

Is he still having sex with his wife?

[333unsure]

He's still married and living with his wife, so however you want to tell the story, this is a relationship where you are essentially the other woman who makes do with short windows of time with him for sex here and there.

 

I agree it's not the best, but I hadn't even considered that I was the other woman or in an other woman type of situation. That probably explains why there's arguably a higher level of regular communication needed to maintain the relationship - it has an inherent imbalance.

 

Many people on this forum have contended that a person needs about 2 years post-divorce to recover and even consider another serious relationship again, and I think it makes sense. Of course, many people will say, "Oh, I was out of the relationship for years before we divorced" and so on, but it doesn't matter. It's still a major change that requires a period of mourning and recuperation.

 

I think you're probably right, and that's something that I did think about before becoming involved with him. I've been divorced for a couple of years now and last year, I did feel ready for a serious relationship (it had been about three years at that point since I'd separated and filed for divorce), and don't think I made a mistake as far as where I was in terms of healing and moving on from the prior relationship. However, I knew I was taking a risk getting involved with someone separated, especially who was entrenched in terms of living arrangements. The quality of the person and relationship potential was so high that I decided it was worth the risk. I still think that was true, and even if it ended now, I wouldn't regret having this relationship. It's been great in so many ways.

 

If you're fine with all that and want to continue in spite of it, I would tell him what you've told us here, but in a much simpler and more distilled way - that not having daily contact from him is making you detach and lose interest. Then I wouldn't see him again, period, until he gets back in the pattern of daily contact and you feel secure.

 

Thanks for this advice. I hadn't really considered not seeing him; I trust him and I'd like to work things out without it being adversarial. Also, I generally feel that in a committed, loving relationship, sex is freely shared. So the idea of essentially cutting that off feels a bit off to me in terms of how I normally handle sexuality in relationships. But I also see that this is different than a normal relationship and might need an adjustment in terms of approach. I'll think about it more. The sad thing is that before this lapse in communication, I felt very happy and secure. It's one of the reasons I want to give it some effort. This has been a fulfilling, warm, positive relationship from the get-go. I've honestly never felt like a side piece or like I wasn't important and valued (until now). So obviously, things need to change. I will say, however, that I trust him to make the changes necessary once we talk about it in greater depth. If he didn't, then that would show me something very different about his character, and I'd lose interest anyway.

 

I wonder if doing that - letting him know I need physical space until we're back on track in terms of daily communication - would help or hurt the relationship. I wouldn't want it to sound or feel like a threat or withholding affection, and could see how it could be interpreted that way. I'll think about how I might say that. i.e., I need to feel safe in this relationship if we're going to be intimate. I'd like to step back on the physical aspect until we have things back on track and I feel good about us again. Or something like that?

 

Is he still having sex with his wife?

 

No, the last time he had sex with his wife was more than six months prior to when we started seeing one another. They've been in divorce counseling together since the spring, in large part because they aren't able to live in separate residences and want to do what they can to get along for their own good and their kids. The split is so far pretty amicable (as these things go). They both have the right priorities - kids first, etc.

[333unsure]

He did contact me today - a short email and made an effort to reach me by phone; we talked briefly. I really do think this is a matter of points a, b, and c that I suggested above (or something like that). Genuine feeling and good intentions on his part. I guess that's why I feel that some patience from me is required. This is not someone callously disregarding or dismissing my feelings; he's trying to figure out how to re-balance his life with more things in play.

 

Meanwhile, I'm taking good care of myself and making sure I'm in the best spot I can be under the circumstances. If it all goes wrong (I hope not), I won't be without.

[BluEyeL]

You are in it and bonded through sex, and can't really be objective, but to me, from all I saw, heard, and lived, this will not end well for you. It appears he has started the fade.

 

Never ever again date a separated man. You're helping him through his divorce and that woman usually ends up broken hearted in the end. I know you're not going to like what I'm saying and will protest, and I do hope you're the exception and not the rule, but better be prepared for anything. Good luck!

[smackie9]

This is what every guy tells me....if they don't contact you, text you, or call you back that's because they don't want to.

[Elle1975]

Thanks for your thoughts. I do think he is genuinely in love with me and serious about the future. When we've discussed when things would happen, he has always followed through.

 

 

I'd say don't forget that emotionally it's not easy. He's basically leaving the comfort and routine of his house, his kids, for you. Not to say he won't, just saying that it's not a black or white kind of decision. He might just be confused, conflicted.

[Ruby Slippers]

I wonder if doing that - letting him know I need physical space until we're back on track in terms of daily communication - would help or hurt the relationship.

It will clarify it.

 

Given that basically the only thing he's making time for with you anymore is sex, that's clearly his #1 priority. As long as you keep providing that without complaint, he has no reason to give anything more. But really, should you have to ask for more? If he really cared about you AND was in a position to really be with you, he would.

 

I'm sorry to say that I agree this probably won't end well for you. And I agree with the advice to never get involved with a separated person again. Separated or not, he's still married, which makes him by and large unavailable.

[333unsure]

I feel very unsettled and unhappy at this point. I'll stop back after I talk with him (in a few days) to update if there is anything worthwhile to share.

[Diezel]

He's in a complicated situation - separated under the same roof, by necessity, and stuck that way for another 6 months or a year. He's introduced me to his friends and it's public knowledge that he's separated, but we've kept our relationship discreet for now because of exes and kids, although not for much longer.

 

This is where I stopped reading.

 

Please don't make me explain why this is where I stopped reading.

But just know... this probably won't end well for you.

 

Why add unnecessary drama to your life?

[333unsure]

Why add unnecessary drama to your life?

 

I don't like drama and most of the relationship has been low- or no-drama despite the circumstances. It's only the recent decline in communication that's been difficult and painful. And the question is pointless now - we've been seeing each other for a year and are deeply in love. Breaking up would only add more drama, especially as it would be a "let's talk when your divorce is final" type of breakup, which would keep us both hanging onto hope/longing/expectations or whatever for at least a year.

 

We got together for lunch today. He wanted to go out to eat instead of just stopping by my place, so we did. He brought up the communication issue before I did, said he could tell it had been bothering me and gave me an opportunity to let him know how I felt. Listened, shared his perspective and concerns, and apologized for not arranging his schedule the way we'd discussed. We agreed on a few things we'd do to stay in some kind of contact daily. It really just seems to be that he's much busier. I expect he's going to contact me more often/reliably and work out his schedule to spend time together in the way we had previously agreed to. For my part - I intend to make an effort to accept his lower availability without overreacting.