Guys and planning...

[lillyz]

So there's this guy I've been spending some time with - same guy I talked about in my 'Does he see me as casual?' thread. Anyway, we've been trying to coordinate getting together lately, but my frustration is that I am VERY busy with my work schedule and often need to plan things in advance. He on the other hand has a very flexible schedule and likes to plan things last minute (I don't mean 11pm btw - more like 'day of', around 2pm or so, 'free later?' - and I'm usually not free).

 

 

I've mentioned to him before, 'Let me know further in advance and it'll be easier to plan things', and he does seem to take the hint, but he's still pretty last minute in general - it's just how he rolls. I wish I had that luxury, but I just don't, working two jobs, half of it take-home projects with deadlines. We're early enough in knowing each other where I don't want to create an 'issue', and I also really want to show up for him in a relaxed, stress-free state of mind.

 

But when it's all last minute, I then have to scramble to get my work done faster and shift my schedule around to hang out with him. I've said 'no' the past few times because I refuse to do that all the time.

 

 

Is there a good, flirty way to convey that I'd appreciate more planning regarding our dates? I'm glad he's trying to see me, but spontaneity just doesn't work like it did when I was 18.

 

 

It also could just be that my schedule really, really sucks. But in the meantime, any advice? :-/

 

 

Thanks guys. This forum is pretty great.

[Elle1975]

Sit him down, talk to him. That's it. If he still doesn't get it, drop him. Not because he's a terrible person, but because I totally understand what you mean by being busy.

 

I am so busy with school, work, and seeing my friends, I can relate. Being pulled on a date at the last minute is something I can rarely do now. It's stressing, it throws my entire schedule off balance. If I am to study tonight, and I go on a date instead, then I find myself scrambling for time the day after.

[Tayken]

I value spontaneity as much as the next person, and quite good at it really, but am best at planning, and it just so happens that my job requires this quality from me all the time.

 

It's not uncommon for me to decide with a date to take off for a day trip 2-5hrs away or across the border for the day.What I don't do is make a habit of this, or expect this all the time.

 

Like everything else in life, you need a plan / aspirations / goals in order to know where you are heading. Failure to plan, and expecting to 'wing it' isn't going to work. Oh, and it just so happens that any would be successful relationship needs communication as well as planning in the form of where they see things heading from its current state.

 

We already know what happens to relationship where communication is absent

[lillyz]

Sit him down, talk to him. That's it. If he still doesn't get it, drop him. Not because he's a terrible person, but because I totally understand what you mean by being busy.

 

I am so busy with school, work, and seeing my friends, I can relate. Being pulled on a date at the last minute is something I can rarely do now. It's stressing, it throws my entire schedule off balance. If I am to study tonight, and I go on a date instead, then I find myself scrambling for time the day after.

 

 

 

EXACTLY what I mean! What would I say to him though? It sucks, but he's happy go lucky with a flexible work schedule, and I'm in over my head with stressful projects with deadlines...

 

I don't want to transfer any of that stress onto him though...

[rdet123]

If it were me I would say "hey I really enjoy spending time with you, but I need more of a notice the next time we hang out ;)"

 

I would keep it light and casual, just because if you make it a big deal then it becomes one. And this is simply that he needs to plan a little better. If he doesn't get it, then i would drop him.

[writergal]

Guys who never plan ahead, are guys who like to keep their options open.

 

That may be why you feel like this guy's option, and why he keeps it so casual with you. He may not feel like you're girlfriend material this early on, even though you may like him a lot already. But it's crazy-making to be left hanging for dates at the last minute! It's a deal-breaker for me personally.

 

Tell him the truth. What have you got to lose? Speak up for yourself and for your needs. If he's not interested in really dating you -- which means he has to agree to make plans ahead of time -- then let him know that you're outta there.

 

He may like you a lot, but it does sound like his first priority is himself, and not dating you. Otherwise, he'd make dates ahead of time.

[Ruby Slippers]

First of all, I think it's pretty common knowledge that men exert more effort with planning with women they really like. The more last minute the invitation, the more casual it is, with the extreme end being a text at 11 pm for a booty call.

 

Second, don't ever contort and stress yourself to accommodate a guy or his schedule. I can almost guarantee you that if you do, it won't be long before you resent him for it. If he really likes you and is a good guy who's worth your time, he'll make it easy and fun for you to date him.

 

After our first few dates, my last boyfriend started leaning toward asking me out last-minute. I told that I always solidify my weekend plans by about Wednesday (true), so we'd need to make plans by then if we wanted to see me on the weekend. He was a busy guy, worked a lot, very dedicated to his career. But he responded immediately to that request, and never asked me out for the weekend later than Wednesday again.

 

You teach people how to treat you. By accepting these last-minute invites, you're teaching him that his time/schedule is more important than yours, and you're already willing to bend over backwards to accommodate him, rather than relaxing because he cares enough to accommodate you.

[lillyz]

I value spontaneity as much as the next person, and quite good at it really, but am best at planning, and it just so happens that my job requires this quality from me all the time.

 

It's not uncommon for me to decide with a date to take off for a day trip 2-5hrs away or across the border for the day.What I don't do is make a habit of this, or expect this all the time.

 

Like everything else in life, you need a plan / aspirations / goals in order to know where you are heading. Failure to plan, and expecting to 'wing it' isn't going to work. Oh, and it just so happens that any would be successful relationship needs communication as well as planning in the form of where they see things heading from its current state.

 

We already know what happens to relationship where communication is absent

 

 

I wish I were good at planning like you are. Tips? In general managing my time/schedule is stressful for me, so tips are super helpful.

 

You are so right about communication.

 

 

 

Guys who never plan ahead, are guys who like to keep their options open.

 

He may like you a lot, but it does sound like his first priority is himself, and not dating you. Otherwise, he'd make dates ahead of time.

 

 

Very very true - and I do think we are both accepting dates with other people - but regardless, if he wants to date me at all, he does need to plan more ahead. On some level, I think he's clueless about girls' need for that... but maybe I can clue him in.

 

I'll mention it when we hang out this week. As much as I like the guy, I need to find out both his stance on dating, and on whether he can empathize with my stressful schedule at the moment. If he can't, I don't want to continue dating him.

 

 

 

Second, don't ever contort and stress yourself to accommodate a guy or his schedule. I can almost guarantee you that if you do, it won't be long before you resent him for it. If he really likes you and is a good guy who's worth your time, he'll make it easy and fun for you to date him.

 

 

You teach people how to treat you. By accepting these last-minute invites, you're teaching him that his time/schedule is more important than yours, and you're already willing to bend over backwards to accommodate him, rather than relaxing because he cares enough to accommodate you.

 

 

Great advice, thanks.

 

I'm not ready to be exclusive with this guy, either - so you are right, I should DEFINITELY not bend over backwards to accept last-minute dates.

 

I think he just wants our dating to be fun and relaxing, kinda "see where it goes, no rush", but he really isn't checking in with me to see what I need. He's just planning last minute fun adventures for us and seems excited for my company.

 

I guess it comes down to communication tho', and I'll have to be the one to initiate it. Can't expect him to read my mind.

[MissBee]

So there's this guy I've been spending some time with - same guy I talked about in my 'Does he see me as casual?' thread. Anyway, we've been trying to coordinate getting together lately, but my frustration is that I am VERY busy with my work schedule and often need to plan things in advance. He on the other hand has a very flexible schedule and likes to plan things last minute (I don't mean 11pm btw - more like 'day of', around 2pm or so, 'free later?' - and I'm usually not free).

 

 

I've mentioned to him before, 'Let me know further in advance and it'll be easier to plan things', and he does seem to take the hint, but he's still pretty last minute in general - it's just how he rolls. I wish I had that luxury, but I just don't, working two jobs, half of it take-home projects with deadlines. We're early enough in knowing each other where I don't want to create an 'issue', and I also really want to show up for him in a relaxed, stress-free state of mind.

 

But when it's all last minute, I then have to scramble to get my work done faster and shift my schedule around to hang out with him. I've said 'no' the past few times because I refuse to do that all the time.

 

 

Is there a good, flirty way to convey that I'd appreciate more planning regarding our dates? I'm glad he's trying to see me, but spontaneity just doesn't work like it did when I was 18.

 

 

It also could just be that my schedule really, really sucks. But in the meantime, any advice? :-/

 

 

Thanks guys. This forum is pretty great.

 

 

Your schedule is what it is and if he is genuinely into you he'll plan for it especially if he's the flexible one. You shouldn't be bending your schedule to him, if he's flexible he should have no issues planning around you. If he can't do that then you all perhaps aren't a good match.

 

I think as women sometimes we suffer from wanting to always be "nice" and liked so that we don't speak frankly.I wouldn't really bother with a "flirty" way....as I realize sometimes people do not take you seriously when you act like that while conveying something important. Simply tell him you'd love to hang out but absolutely need advanced notice and hours before will often not work so if he'd please plan in advance. I didn't read your other thread, but if you don't even know if he sees you as casual, this might be the sign, as usually a man who is interested in being in a relationship is going to be a lot more considerate of your time and will plan in advance whereas one who sees you as casual will plan things in a casual, last minute fashion.

 

There's also no need to be confused about how he sees you. I NEVER go into a dating situation without knowing what each of our goals are. I.e. are you just looking for FWB, casual or are you hoping to get to know me to see if I'm someone you want to be in a relationship with. It is perfectly reasonable to find this out early on instead of wasting time guessing (although usually if you're guessing it's because it's not serious) or possibly rearranging your plans for a man who sees you as something fun for now and not someone he wants to invest in emotionally and time wise.

[michellew]

I would just keep saying no until he finally asks in advance. If he's really into you and wants to see you, he will make the effort to plan ahead.

[lillyz]

I think as women sometimes we suffer from wanting to always be "nice" and liked so that we don't speak frankly.I wouldn't really bother with a "flirty" way....as I realize sometimes people do not take you seriously when you act like that while conveying something important. Simply tell him you'd love to hang out but absolutely need advanced notice and hours before will often not work so if he'd please plan in advance. I didn't read your other thread, but if you don't even know if he sees you as casual, this might be the sign, as usually a man who is interested in being in a relationship is going to be a lot more considerate of your time and will plan in advance whereas one who sees you as casual will plan things in a casual, last minute fashion.

There's also no need to be confused about how he sees you. I NEVER go into a dating situation without knowing what each of our goals are. I.e. are you just looking for FWB, casual or are you hoping to get to know me to see if I'm someone you want to be in a relationship with. It is perfectly reasonable to find this out early on instead of wasting time guessing (although usually if you're guessing it's because it's not serious) or possibly rearranging your plans for a man who sees you as something fun for now and not someone he wants to invest in emotionally and time wise.

 

 

Thanks for your thoughts. Great advice.

 

 

It's so funny how when I HAVE been more direct, blunt, upfront early on with guys (as I actually usually am in other real life situations), those are the guys who want to stick around with me. When I've been more accommodating, maybe in an attempt to 'let him lead' or whatever, without asking direct questions around their dating habits, I've actually felt less interest on the guys end, or at least less effort.

 

Basically when I focus less on 'rules', guys seem to respect that more.

 

This is probably a lesson in and of itself. Know myself well, and speak up about who I am in regards to dating early on.

[Tayken]

I wish I were good at planning like you are. Tips? In general managing my time/schedule is stressful for me, so tips are super helpful.

 

You are so right about communication.

 

.

 

 

The world doesn't need 2 of me .....one is bad enough depending on whom you ask Jest aside, for me it comes naturally but am also of the belief that planning can be learned.

 

As for tips, start with a calendar at your desk and kitchen, a watch on your wrist, and don't be oblivious to matters concerning you professionally and personally.

 

I even have a white board in my kitchen that I scribble on, as well as a world map and giant clock from IKEA. If you walk into my place, you pretty much get an impression right off the bat of the kind of person I am.

 

I have had dates say to me "am intimidated now inviting you over to my place". You can get a quick impression of someone's organization / lack thereof by looking inside their car....I can't stand clutter period! A deal breaker for me amongst other things.

 

Oh....life lessons of 40 odd years teaches taught me the importance of communication. I won't compromise on lack of it with anyone.

[DrReplyInRhymes]

This whole problem can be averted with a simple reply,

When he asks you on a date the same day, just don't deny!

Instead, offer a different time and place that works for you,

and I'm sure he'll say yes and be really excited too!

 

Hopefully he'll learn within due time,

That you are really busy, and your schedule is fine.

But if he wants to date you, and you want to date him,

the you should make this work, instead of plans on a whim!

[Ruby Slippers]

It's so funny how when I HAVE been more direct, blunt, upfront early on with guys (as I actually usually am in other real life situations), those are the guys who want to stick around with me. When I've been more accommodating, maybe in an attempt to 'let him lead' or whatever, without asking direct questions around their dating habits, I've actually felt less interest on the guys end, or at least less effort.

It's human nature to respect those who respect themselves and don't accept anything less from others.

 

You can be direct and up front and still "let him lead" by asking you out and planning dates. This is how I operate. I make my requirements very clear, then happily agree with plans that respect them, and politely decline plans that don't. If he likes you and is worth your time, he'll figure it out really fast.

[MissBee]

Thanks for your thoughts. Great advice.

 

 

It's so funny how when I HAVE been more direct, blunt, upfront early on with guys (as I actually usually am in other real life situations), those are the guys who want to stick around with me. When I've been more accommodating, maybe in an attempt to 'let him lead' or whatever, without asking direct questions around their dating habits, I've actually felt less interest on the guys end, or at least less effort.

 

Basically when I focus less on 'rules', guys seem to respect that more.

 

This is probably a lesson in and of itself. Know myself well, and speak up about who I am in regards to dating early on.

 

Yess!

 

And the type of men who will respect you and stick around when you speak up for yourself are those you want. If you feel like you have to walk on egg shells and be all nicey-nicey and not say how you truly feel in order to not scare a man off, suffice it to say, you probably shouldn't be interested in that kind of guy anyway. If he's scared off, good riddance!

 

But as you've noticed, it actually is counterproductive, as when you are straightforward you get what you want and you get men who are more suited to you versus playing nice and coming off as having no demands, you get men who will yank you around at their convenience. I don't think it's a problem to let a man lead necessarily, but I only follow your lead IF it makes sense and is respectful of me. If your "lead" is last minute, disrespectful of my time etc...then you can get lost.

[Assasda]

I am that way, like the guy you describe.

 

I just hang around then when I'm not doing anything its easy to get with someone and do something.

What usually happens is the girls usually sets the outtings.

 

So, I suggest that you tell him when to meet and set some dates.

Just take it out of his hands

[FitChick]

I even have a white board in my kitchen that I scribble on, as well as a world map and giant clock from IKEA. If you walk into my place, you pretty much get an impression right off the bat of the kind of person I am.

My guess would be Virgo.

[Kofybean]

Oh look another thread detail the imperfections of man who's behavior isn't 100% perfectly what a particular woman wants it to be.

 

Get a dog. Much easier to train and they obey your commands.

 

Sit him down, talk to him. That's it. If he still doesn't get it, drop him.

 

Honestly, how do women ever stay in relationships if they keep running away every time a man does't do as they command?

[Tayken]

My guess would be Virgo.

 

 

Your guess is completely and utterly wayyyyyyyyyyy offfffffffffffff

[lillyz]

As for tips, start with a calendar at your desk and kitchen, a watch on your wrist, and don't be oblivious to matters concerning you professionally and personally.

 

I even have a white board in my kitchen that I scribble on, as well as a world map and giant clock from IKEA. If you walk into my place, you pretty much get an impression right off the bat of the kind of person I am.

 

 

Oh....life lessons of 40 odd years teaches taught me the importance of communication. I won't compromise on lack of it with anyone.

 

 

 

I love this, thanks. For some reason I've always avoided this much organization; but my life will greatly improve from being more like this. It's pretty simple.. I just need to make it a practice.

 

And communication, you are right - definitely not something to compromise on.

 

 

It's human nature to respect those who respect themselves and don't accept anything less from others.

 

You can be direct and up front and still "let him lead" by asking you out and planning dates. This is how I operate. I make my requirements very clear, then happily agree with plans that respect them, and politely decline plans that don't. If he likes you and is worth your time, he'll figure it out really fast.

 

 

Thanks! Am working on how to communicate what I need...

 

 

 

Yess!

 

And the type of men who will respect you and stick around when you speak up for yourself are those you want. If you feel like you have to walk on egg shells and be all nicey-nicey and not say how you truly feel in order to not scare a man off, suffice it to say, you probably shouldn't be interested in that kind of guy anyway. If he's scared off, good riddance!

 

But as you've noticed, it actually is counterproductive, as when you are straightforward you get what you want and you get men who are more suited to you versus playing nice and coming off as having no demands, you get men who will yank you around at their convenience. I don't think it's a problem to let a man lead necessarily, but I only follow your lead IF it makes sense and is respectful of me. If your "lead" is last minute, disrespectful of my time etc...then you can get lost.

 

 

YES, YES, and YES. So true that the more straightforward we are, the more likely we are to attract the guys who are good for us and deter the guys who are not.

 

Thanks for this empowering response.

 

 

I am that way, like the guy you describe.

 

I just hang around then when I'm not doing anything its easy to get with someone and do something.

What usually happens is the girls usually sets the outtings.

 

So, I suggest that you tell him when to meet and set some dates.

Just take it out of his hands

 

 

Interesting you say this, because I have an update.

 

 

SO, I hung out with the guy again, and had a great time.

 

Towards the end of the date, I brought this stuff up - mainly that I wanted to figure out our attitudes about dating, in large part because we'd been sleeping together, and also because dates have been so sporadic - a week or more apart - that I've had zero idea what he was thinking on his end - if he'd like to hang out more often, or what? If he's dating other people, etc.?

 

This is what HE said, and I was totally shocked:

 

He told me that I'm really the only one he is dating, definitely the only one he's been sleeping with, and that he actually wondered the same thing about me - that maybe I was the disinterested one, since I was never really hitting him up to do anything.

 

Clearly my trying to use the 'rule' of letting a guy plan all the dates and pursue me was confusing this guy.

 

He told me the reason we don't hang out much is BECAUSE he knows how busy I am, so he figured when I had free time that I would have let him know I was free.

 

He said he didn't understand why girls need so much communication around this - that clearly I should know that he likes me, because he keeps asking me out, we keep having a great time, and we continue to date. He said the reason it's been sporadic has been because often when he asks me to do something, I'm busy, so he figured he would just wait for me to ask HIM to do something.

 

He also said he's had past girlfriends tell him something similar - for example that he doesn't tell them enough that he loves them or is into them - but that in his view, it should be obvious based on how he is acting.

 

 

Well, I'm thinking, NOT REALLY. Most guys will take me out, do things together, and be into having sex with me - that doesn't mean I know that they are pursuing me and only me, or are really really into me, unless they TELL ME. Communication is really the only way to know whether a guy is just doing 'casual', or is actually wanting a relationship.

 

 

It all really baffles me. We both said we want to see each other again, but that we should probably think this stuff over a bit.

 

 

It's crazy - all those moments of me worrying because I hadn't heard from him... figuring he wasn't into me... wondering what to 'text him back'... he was just backing off because he thought I was busy.

 

Miscommunication, much?

 

 

And the dates itself have been confusing - we have a great time together, but he doesn't really 'lead' physically - I'm used to guys being pretty forward with wanting to touch me, flirt with me on a date, etc. I actually like that. He and I have had great sex, but during our dates, I feel like he talks with me more like a friend than anything else, and doesn't give out as much physical affection or verbal compliments as other guys do, yet he is saying he actually has definitely been interested in dating me.

 

 

Am I the only one here who would be confused by this? I really had no idea how into me he was.

 

 

So I'm left here wondering, if we are actually incompatible in terms of communication - maybe I need more of it than he does, as communication is a pretty big deal to me - or if the miscommunication has now been cleared and he will communicate more in the future.

 

 

In my view, if he was really so eager to see me, he would be going more out of his way to ensure that would happen - no matter how busy I am. He claims that he was trying to give me space, but ... oh geez, it's just so confusing. I'll see him again, and since I am the busier of the two of us maybe I will have to initiate, but I don't know if this is all a sign of us needing different things or what. Compatibility is a pretty big deal.

[mightycpa]

EXACTLY what I mean! What would I say to him though? It sucks, but he's happy go lucky with a flexible work schedule, and I'm in over my head with stressful projects with deadlines...

 

I don't want to transfer any of that stress onto him though...

 

You might say something like:

 

You know what sucks? You're this happy go lucky guy with a flexible work schedule, and I'm in over my head with stressful projects with deadlines... so you call me up and ask me if I can see you later that day, and generally, I can't. That sucks, because I'd love to. You know what would make it better? Plan something for us, and give me a couple or more days' notice so that I can set the time aside. I want to see you, but I can't do it the way you're doing it right now. Tell me what you think about that.

[lillyz]

Hmm, it won't let me quote what you said. ^

 

 

But thanks ~ that's a good way to further bring up how our schedules could better align.