Anti psychotic drugs shrink the brain

[Maleficent]

Society changes it's mind about what is normal all the time and I don't think a bunch of old rich white men who write the DSM should decide what's normal,they are not objective they are influenced by societal norms,a hundred years ago it was perfectly acceptable to have visions,as society has moved from the spiritual to the atheistic it has become unacceptable.

 

 

I feel terribly sad that I live in a time where Joan of arc would have been put in a psychiatric ward and had her brain shrunk.

 

You're right. So much better to be burned at the stake...

[writergal]

You're right. So much better to be burned at the stake...

 

I see the two as equally horrific, frankly, because both forms of punishment come from fear and ignorance, and a refusal to understand or accept.

[Hope Shimmers]

Show me a blood test that proves a mental illness exists in the brain, and I will retract my opinion that mental illness diagnoses are created by unscrupulous, money-hungry, pseudo-psychiatrists (who are NOT real doctors due to their fraud and manipulation of data), who dole out anti-psychotics to people based on the DSM which is not a scientific product, but a book of fake diagnoses founded on unscrupulous politics and bureaucracy (all in the name of big bucks).

 

 

Peer-reviewed studies are not factual, for the millionth time. Peer reviewed studies are when group A reads articles by group B, analyzes them and then points out the validity or invalidity of group B's thesis. I read peer-reviewed articles for 3 years during grad school so I think I know what I'm talking about.

 

 

I'll say it again, my opinion stands that every single "mental illness" listed in the DSM is a based on an opinion, and not a scientific, biological fact. There are no blood tests to prove the existence of mental illnesses. None. No brain scans either. The function of blood tests for patients on anti-psychotics or any medication prescribed for mental illness, is to measure the toxicity levels in the blood stream. That's it.

 

 

When a blood test is invented to detect the genetic markers in the brain that someone has a mental illness, give me a call because then I will stand corrected. But until that day comes, I stand by what I believe: psychiatry is a fake science, a business, and millions upon millions of people have their lives RUINED by these quacks.

 

 

Just look at how over-medicated society is. Psychiatry creates white collar drug addicts. Psychiatry fear mongers society into believing the myth of mental illness, the myth of the "chemical imbalance." And that to me is really unfortunate.

 

 

To diagnose someone, psychiatry relies on paper tests (!!) and some person's opinion that has an M.D. behind their name (which doesn't mean they are qualified. It just means they studied something for a long period of time.)That to me is shaky science at best. Um, excuse me but a paper test is about as reliable as a pathological liar. Those sorts of tests are biased and unethical.

 

 

It's obvious I'm in the minority in this thread, with my belief that psychiatry is a booming "business," that dupes millions of people into believing lies that aren't even based on biological evidence or blood tests, but just opinions motivated by making money.

 

 

And I'm not fear mongering either, by stating my opposing view. I just disagree with the majority of people in this thread, who believe that psychiatry and the anti-psychotics and other medications prescribed is a real science.

 

 

To accuse me of fear mongering is way off base and offensive to me because it couldn't be farther from the truth.

 

As for your request that someone should convince you otherwise, it is your opinion (certainly isn't fact) and as such it is meaningless to me to care enough about it to show you proof. I am much more concerned about the millions of people with diagnosed mental illness to whom you are offering terrible advice with your opinion.

 

I find it hard to believe and also depressing that someone could be in a graduate program and still not understand what peer-reviewed research is. But as you yourself stated, graduate school doesn't make someone smart - just means they went to school for a really long time.

 

I would suggest though, that since you don't believe in peer-reviewed research, you should avoid taking any medications that are FDA-approved, because that research is how they got that status so that they could be available to you. That includes all medications - antibiotics, antihypertensives, antidiabetic agents... everything. So since it's all just based on opinion and not fact, you certainly will not ever need to take any of those, I'm assuming.

 

If you ever have the opportunity to interact with a patient with mental illness (schizophrenia and bipolar disorder come to mind in particular) you will change your tune regarding whether these people are just "different and misunderstood" or genuinely are ill. You are thinking of these people as just eccentric - you have no idea what they are really like clinically. They are unable to function for the most part, unless treated. Also not sure how you explain the high rate of homelessness and suicide among these patients when untreated, because those are facts too. Maybe you just think it's coincidence that treated patients have far lower rates of suicide and are suddenly able to function day to day in society.

 

There is no "blood test" for autism. Do you think that is a joke diagnosis too? And all those parents with autistic children are just bad parents or making things up?

 

In any event, do a little research and you will find that there are indeed studies linking genomics with mental illness. (Not a "blood test", as you seem to require, but a link nonetheless).

 

You are entitled to your opinion and I'm not interested in changing it, only in making sure patients who have a diagnosis stay on their treatments and get better. I am glad that persons like you are in the minority. Take care.

[todreaminblue]

I see the two as equally horrific, frankly, because both forms of punishment come from fear and ignorance, and a refusal to understand or accept.

 

what i notice writergal is that you ignore my posts.......you dont choose to see i have a legitimate question in the following....

 

 

what would you suggest be the treatment for people who exhibit mental illness????......if by your account mental illness is fake.....

 

 

its fine to have opinions everyone has one...its fine to express viewpoints that differ...if you can back them up with helpful and thoughtful answers..mazes of words that provide no answers.....that is all i see..what i notice is people don't follow through with what they hold for an opinion especially in the polarizing discussion of mental illness...........they dont provide answers to questions that need answers....for people that need treatment..whether you believe mental illness to be real or not the fact is medication is often the only way i have seen to treat severe cases of mental illnesses across the board.........i must add i am not a fan of meds i am off them now...personal choice...........if i get too bad off them, they will court order a hospital stay and force me to take them...........

 

for that reason as a diagnosed mentally ill person your opinion has little to no merit....gives me no food for thought and certainly little progression of thought...no solution to an age old problem had by many...is it because of my ellipses you dont reply ro do you find my posts stupid.....i like you writergal you are intelligent often thoughtful poster.....i wish to understand your opinion for that i need answers to my questions....thank you in advance for your reply........deb

Edited October 23, 2014 by todreaminblue

[writergal]

I don't really have an alternative to offer to psychiatry and really that's not my call. Why would I need to offer an alternative, just because I believe one system of how mental illness is treated, is wrong?

 

I'm not ignoring your posts. I've always shown you respect here deb and that hasn't changed, just b/c I don't support psychiatry or anti-psychotics as a valid way to treat people.

 

I've stated why I think the use of drugs like anti-psychotics are wrong, and why I think psychiatry is not a real science. Since you don't think my opinion matters anyway, that's ok. We're all entitled to our opinions.

 

what i notice writergal is that you ignore my posts.......you dont choose to see i have a legitimate question in the following....

 

 

what would you suggest be the treatment for people who exhibit mental illness????......if by your account mental illness is fake.....

 

 

its fine to have opinions everyone has one...its fine to express viewpoints that differ...if you can back them up with helpful and thoughtful answers..mazes of words that provide no answers.....that is all i see..what i notice is people don't follow through with what they hold for an opinion especially in the polarizing discussion of mental illness...........they dont provide answers to questions that need answers....for people that need treatment..whether you believe mental illness to be real or not the fact is medication is often the only way i have seen to treat severe cases of mental illnesses across the board.........i must add i am not a fan of meds i am off them now...personal choice...........if i get too bad off them, they will court order a hospital stay and force me to take them...........

 

for that reason as a diagnosed mentally ill person your opinion has little to no merit....gives me no food for thought and certainly little progression of thought...no solution to an age old problem had by many...is it because of my ellipses you dont reply ro do you find my posts stupid.....i like you writergal you are intelligent often thoughtful poster.....i wish to understand your opinion for that i need answers to my questions....thank you in advance for your reply........deb

[Maleficent]

 

I find it hard to believe and also depressing that someone could be in a graduate program and still not understand what peer-reviewed research is. But as you yourself stated, graduate school doesn't make someone smart - just means they went to school for a really long time.

 

I agree with this 100%

[todreaminblue]

I don't really have an alternative to offer to psychiatry and really that's not my call. Why would I need to offer an alternative, just because I believe one system of how mental illness is treated, is wrong?

 

I'm not ignoring your posts. I've always shown you respect here deb and that hasn't changed, just b/c I don't support psychiatry or anti-psychotics as a valid way to treat people.

 

I've stated why I think the use of drugs like anti-psychotics are wrong, and why I think psychiatry is not a real science. Since you don't think my opinion matters anyway, that's ok. We're all entitled to our opinions.

 

 

yeah i was just hoping for some answers thats why i said what you posted has no merit....it does have merit......because i want answers......you know writergal i am not a fan of meds.....i dont understand really why you think mental illness is fake....there are unscrupulous uncaring doctors.....just as their are unscrupulous builders plumbers whatever.....i do know there are good doctors who provide alternatives and listen to the patients who take their oath seriously....i think with any branch of medicine there are good and bad......people who care or people who dont......

 

writergal in your ideal world if you had one where everything fell exactly in line with your opinion....and it was all on you to have solutions for mental illness....what do you think can be done to reform the branch of medicine known as psychiatry...if you do away do away with it, do away...its gone....but what takes that branches place .....deb

[writergal]

deb my friend, I don't know what would replace psychiatry, Big Pharma and Insurance companies if those were eradicated. The (harsh) reality is that the psychiatric industry is Big Business, so it will always be in existence because it makes money for Insurance companies and pharmaceutical companies. It's also a way to control the human population numbers (sad but true). Ultimately, I think it's up to each individual person to decide what works best for his/her own belief system. That's not my responsibility, so I can't offer you any alternative. That's something you need to discover on your own and I wish you the best of luck with that.

 

 

yeah i was just hoping for some answers thats why i said what you posted has no merit....it does have merit......because i want answers......you know writergal i am not a fan of meds.....i dont understand really why you think mental illness is fake....there are unscrupulous uncaring doctors.....just as their are unscrupulous builders plumbers whatever.....i do know there are good doctors who provide alternatives and listen to the patients who take their oath seriously....i think with any branch of medicine there are good and bad......people who care or people who dont......

 

writergal in your ideal world if you had one where everything fell exactly in line with your opinion....and it was all on you to have solutions for mental illness....what do you think can be done to reform the branch of medicine known as psychiatry...if you do away do away with it, do away...its gone....but what takes that branches place .....deb

[ufo8mycat]

 

That's just one lab. There's no shortage of evidence showing actual, meaningful differences between people with mental illnesses and people without.

 

There is also BUCKETS of hard, verifiable, empirical evidence from comparative functional MRI studies that demonstrate the physical and chemical changes in the brain associated with mental illness.

 

You diagnose cancer with an imaging but for mental illness it isn't evidence enough. A simple search will show you images of the fMRI of patients during and acute psychotic episodes and in periodic follow up following pharmacotherapy.

 

But you want a blood test?

 

Get your atrial fibrillation patient off warfarin stat! Warfarin is clearly poisoning him, because AF wasn't 'found in his blood' and you had to measure his warfarin levels! Put him on a one-week juice detox diet and he'll be all fine and dandy.

 

And take him to the Homeopathic ER if you are in any way concerned

 

 

Science is a funny thing...what we deem as correct or true now, 5 years the same science may have said it was awful will kill you. Think of the simple things..eggs bad, eggs good; coffee bad, coffee good....same can be applied to medications. I would say the same applies to treatment of mental/mood disorders

 

 

That is the beauty of science - the capacity to change a view based on evidence

 

Its 10 minutes long but well worth watching: Tim Minchin on alternative medicine, the beat poem, Storm. Warning: some bad language

 

 

"You know what they call alternative medicine that has been proven to work? Medicine"

 

My apologies if this is geoblocked, but the recent documentary "changing minds" filmed at Liverpool Hospital in Sydney in the secure psychiatric unit. Independantly made, BigPharma not involved

 

Changing Minds - The Inside Story : ABC iview

Edited October 23, 2014 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
Fixed quote

[Hope Shimmers]

deb my friend, I don't know what would replace psychiatry, Big Pharma and Insurance companies if those were eradicated. The (harsh) reality is that the psychiatric industry is Big Business, so it will always be in existence because it makes money for Insurance companies and pharmaceutical companies. It's also a way to control the human population numbers (sad but true). Ultimately, I think it's up to each individual person to decide what works best for his/her own belief system. That's not my responsibility, so I can't offer you any alternative. That's something you need to discover on your own and I wish you the best of luck with that.

 

writergal, I have read many of your posts and have come to respect you, so this disagreement is different in that respect. But all opinions should be respected.

 

Big pharma is about capitalism which is what we live here in the US. It is just the way it is. I have personally had professional issues with it (which I won't go into here), but still, pharmaceutical companies do have patients' interest in mind. And their products are not just for-profit, but also have to withstand the rigorous standards of peer-reviewed research publications.

 

If you don't believe that psychiatry is "real", then I think (when speaking to a patient who has been diagnosed as such) that you should suggest what that patient should do instead. The alternative, I guess, would be that you don't think that the patient really has an illness at all and should just do nothing. That is your opinion, but it doesn't help the many millions of people who deal with this ongoing - my opinion.

[todreaminblue]

deb my friend, I don't know what would replace psychiatry, Big Pharma and Insurance companies if those were eradicated. The (harsh) reality is that the psychiatric industry is Big Business, so it will always be in existence because it makes money for Insurance companies and pharmaceutical companies. It's also a way to control the human population numbers (sad but true). Ultimately, I think it's up to each individual person to decide what works best for his/her own belief system. That's not my responsibility, so I can't offer you any alternative. That's something you need to discover on your own and I wish you the best of luck with that.

 

I was talking to a friend who has epilepsy they have put her on medication for the rest of her life basically.....i am not naive when it comes to pharmaceutical companies.....they make money off people who are ill....and the longer that person is ill.....the longer they have money coming in......

 

 

i was playing only if with you writer gal maybe that isnt realistic and i know that you dont have a responsibility to give me any answers.....i do respect you...and i shouldnt have said that your opinion has no merit...it was rude of me.....i apologise........i just wanted to go deeper in thought with your opinions.....to see the other sides view.......normally that involves some sort of resolution solution some other way to look at the perspective posted..and i so wanted it from you....

 

there is never going to be an answer for me writergal that will change me ...there is no cure ...no quick fix.....i just have to deal with what i have.....or havent...ill probably conitnue to hav ehospital stays and eb put back on psychotropic medication as a life intervention...only when it is life threatening....otherwise i dont function day to day...i cant think feel and am slow to act on meds...i have no insight to others...i have nothign but a body that walks around with a head in cotton wool....not fun .....its one reason i like to pray........for me to be "normal" would take a miracle not medication...i trust who i am to god to understand...for he surely does.......medication and i dont get on......i never expected you to have answers for me....i just wanted to know if you had inspiration on this topic to delve in possibility...swim in the possibility of a world without meds.....i just wanted to dream....i never expected you to have answers for me personally......with regards....im out...hugs..deb

Edited October 23, 2014 by todreaminblue

[Quiet Storm]

There is no doubt in my mind mental illness is real. My family is proof enough for me. It doesn't always fit into the DSM boxes, though. It can be a strange and unpredictable mix of mental/ emotional dysfunction.

 

Medication isn't a cure, but can make the symptoms more manageable. It won't cure a person but may keep them from jumping off a bridge or hearing voices.

 

Its certainly not an exact science and docs seem quick to medicate mild symptoms, but this doesn't negate the fact that medication does help many people (and the families that live with them).

[NJ123]

My stance on medication is that there's plenty of people who really do need them to function. And there definitely is such thing as chemical imbalances. Since why all of a sudden do some people start to feel better after on the pills? It's not just them magically getting better, it's that the pills are fixing the chemicals in the brain that are out of wack. Maybe they are over prescribed, but that still doesn't mean anything since there's plenty of people who truly do need the meds. And I really dislike the assumption that all people who are on meds must be crazy. The stigma is so ****ed up towards that.

[todreaminblue]

Book of Proverbs, chapter 23, verse 7: "As a man thinketh in his heart, so is he".

 

I found that on google.....

 

I feel in all honesty it isnt a mans place to know another mans heart that is a responsibility that can only be upheld by a being with no ulterior motive, no financial motivation by someone with total purity and justice.....

 

all our personality all our core of who we are, resides in our brain .mini computers that you cant call up the manufacturer for the manual......you can pray that he hears and understands how to help you though ..........

 

 

....i do believe that meds help some people, i do believe there are kind compassionate caring doctors, i do believe in psychiatry but not as a complete science.....nothing is complete about knowing a mans heart and who and how hsi brain functions and or how he thinks.... and medication isnt for everyone...i wish it could be...take a pill and all is better.....for some it can ...but sadly for many its years and years of trials and guinea pig like balancing tests to find a suitable treatment...i am tired of that....as are many patients who go through many changes of medication to try and find something suitable.....or the patients who find the side effects negate the gains .......

 

but for some.....medication is what intervenes an early death and for me a few times ...it has......and i am grateful for that chance ....even though i hate medication and taking it myself.....i know it helps many...adn often ...including me....deb

[Maleficent]

My stance on medication is that there's plenty of people who really do need them to function. And there definitely is such thing as chemical imbalances. Since why all of a sudden do some people start to feel better after on the pills? It's not just them magically getting better, it's that the pills are fixing the chemicals in the brain that are out of wack. Maybe they are over prescribed, but that still doesn't mean anything since there's plenty of people who truly do need the meds. And I really dislike the assumption that all people who are on meds must be crazy. The stigma is so ****ed up towards that.

 

The stigma comes from people who think 'well there are no tests to prove depression, so it does not exist'

 

There's a lot of that going around....