beatcuff Posted October 9, 2014 Posted October 9, 2014 I think that attempting to control your spouses behavior is by definition controlling. my original response was to this quote, to which Mr. Lucky was reacting to. which ties to: I read this and the biggest issue in your relationship is the fact that you are massively controlling! You had HOUR long discussions about this in advance? OP is attempting to control S. S wants OP but still wants some freedom. S and his friends all see and know this. S takes a stand by sneaking. of course OP finds out, S 'yes's' OP until OP thinks S is broken... rinse, lather, repeat. what the OP thinks is 'discussing' is not doubt a 'demand speech', still trying to find any compromise here... BTW i always read the entire thread before responding.
Got it Posted October 9, 2014 Posted October 9, 2014 my original response was to this quote, to which Mr. Lucky was reacting to. which ties to: OP is attempting to control S. S wants OP but still wants some freedom. S and his friends all see and know this. S takes a stand by sneaking. of course OP finds out, S 'yes's' OP until OP thinks S is broken... rinse, lather, repeat. what the OP thinks is 'discussing' is not doubt a 'demand speech', still trying to find any compromise here... BTW i always read the entire thread before responding. Then "S" needs to stand by his convictions and not lie. If S doesn't like the converations he can cut them short, say end of discussion, etc. If you choose to conflict avoid and lie then you deal with the consequences to it when you are caught. It is really quite simple. I am sorry but forgive me for any sympathy that one chooses to hide their intention because they don't like a conversation. That is about a mature an option as plugging one's ears and holding your breath until it stops. The OP has ever right to have a boundary in the relationship to not involve strip clubs. Her SO has every right to disagree. But as a couple they need to talk it out. They have to work together. When you are untruthful you are giving a false bill of goods. If S wants some freedom that is fine. But the consequence/reaction to it is no relationship. That is not unreasonable for either party. But you can't have your cake and eat it too by wanting both so you just mislead the other party. If that is the option, then you need to be ready for your lumps when the actions are discovered. 1
SawtoothMars Posted October 9, 2014 Posted October 9, 2014 So in order to not be controlling, you'd let your spouse have a sexual encounter with someone else? Because that's what a (semi) nude woman grinding your crotch (sometimes to point of ejaculation) is considered to be. Based on this, she thought she was: Mr. Lucky I'm saying that people have different views of what is acceptable forms of sexuality. Her husband doesn't seem to think of this as cheating and is an acceptable expression of his sexuality. What I'm saying is that she either accept him, or find someone else... because changing him is a dumb strategy. No the stripclub they went to doesnt do lapdances in the main floor. All the lapdances are done upstairs seperated by curtains. So he was taken to the upstairs area where there is individual rooms for lapdances. He got one there in a dark room as you say and alone. At least thats what I know. Maybe there was more I havent been told. I dont really want to know if she was nude or gstring or if it was 1 dance or 5 dances bought for him I dont know. I will never know. You just married this guy... Do you trust him? If you don't trust him... then why did you marry him? Has he or has he not been 100% trustworthy up to this point?
Arieswoman Posted October 9, 2014 Posted October 9, 2014 Yourstruly, Firstly, I am very sorry you are having to deal with this and I can imagine how much hurt it must be causing you. As I see it, you had an agreement before he went out with his pals; I cared about him going to a strip club and having lap dance and discussed with him why I did not feel comfortable with the idea and asked him not to do this. He wasnt too happy about complying but he said Ok and promised me he wouldnt go to a stripclub. He told me to trust him and that it wasnt a big deal to him to not go as it wasnt like his friends and him were into stripclubs and that I need to relax and trust him as he loves me and wouldnt hurt me. He then broke his word and didn't keep his side of the bargain. You may never know whether he got into any sexual stuff or not, but IMO that isn't the main problem. The problem is that he disregarded your wishes, lied and hurt you. Can you stay in the relationship knowing what he is capable of doing ? Only you know the answer to that. Good luckx
SawtoothMars Posted October 9, 2014 Posted October 9, 2014 As I see it, you had an agreement before he went out with his pals; He then broke his word and didn't keep his side of the bargain. Again... where is the compromise? I don't see a bargain and I don't see agreement.
Mr. Lucky Posted October 9, 2014 Posted October 9, 2014 What I'm saying is that she either accept him, or find someone else... because changing him is a dumb strategy. Why isn't he held to the same standard in terms of accepting her? Of the two of them, she was honest about her feelings. Again... where is the compromise? I don't see a bargain and I don't see agreement. There are values that some people won't compromise. Based on the OP's description, she communicated this to him - she didn't want to be with a "strip club" guy. Whether or not one agrees with her position, hopefully there isn't disagreement about her right to feel this way. You don't "bargain" by agreeing to do something (no strip clubs) that you disagree with, then breaking your promise not to do it and then lying about it afterwards. There's another word for that... Mr. Lucky 2
SawtoothMars Posted October 9, 2014 Posted October 9, 2014 Why isn't he held to the same standard in terms of accepting her? Of the two of them, she was honest about her feelings. If he was posting in this thread I would tell him exactly what a spineless douche he is being... and that he needs to either stand up to his wife OR except her feelings about strip clubs. I've been in this situation and our discussion of bachelor party strip clubs was a short one. We worked out some compromise about what she wanted and what I wanted for her bachelorette party and all is good. There are values that some people won't compromise. Based on the OP's description, she communicated this to him - she didn't want to be with a "strip club" guy. Whether or not one agrees with her position, hopefully there isn't disagreement about her right to feel this way. You don't "bargain" by agreeing to do something (no strip clubs) that you disagree with, then breaking your promise not to do it and then lying about it afterwards. There's another word for that... Mr. Lucky You are totally correct! She has every right to not marry the kind of guy who hangs out at strip clubs. A bargain requires an exchange. This was in essence a command, and he did break that command and then lie about it. However, because there was never really mutual acceptance... instead it is a challenge to her authority. You have to understand that this interaction is described by OP as more Parent-Child than an agreement between equals. Thus he is exhibiting childish behavior in challenging her authority over him. 1
d0nnivain Posted October 9, 2014 Posted October 9, 2014 Again... where is the compromise? I don't see a bargain and I don't see agreement. Actually at the very beginning of the OPs thread she said he said Ok and promised me he wouldnt go to a stripclub. While she may have badgered him into it, he did agree. Hence, him breaking his word, then hiding it & getting his buddies to participate in the cover-up becomes a bigger deal. this isn't a contract. You don't need adequate legal consideration. In a marriage your word should be enough. The sneakiness gets this marriage off on the wrong foot 1
acapelo_dp Posted October 9, 2014 Posted October 9, 2014 I really don't get the women and men saying "It's just a lapdance, it's harmless!" To each their own?? But I wouldn't want any woman, paid for it or not, to be dancing naked on my man and giving him a boner. Sorry. That is for me to do only. I wouldn't care if it's a stripper in a club or a random girl on the street. I really just don't get it. But anyways... The fact that he lied, is a huge red flag in itself. I would not be okay with that at all. 2
Poppygoodwill Posted October 10, 2014 Posted October 10, 2014 You have to understand that this interaction is described by OP as more Parent-Child than an agreement between equals. Thus he is exhibiting childish behavior in challenging her authority over him. You have to understand that your condescending tone in itself causes people to disagree with you. I suggest you take it down a notch and you might have greater success in getting your point of view across.
SawtoothMars Posted October 11, 2014 Posted October 11, 2014 While she may have badgered him into it, he did agree. Hence, him breaking his word, then hiding it & getting his buddies to participate in the cover-up becomes a bigger deal. this isn't a contract. You don't need adequate legal consideration. In a marriage your word should be enough. The sneakiness gets this marriage off on the wrong foot It doesn't really work like that. You are correct that she did state that he had finally agreed, but also that he "wasn't happy about it". I agree that this doesn't get the marriage off on the right foot. I think the blame can be equally shared in this for his dishonesty and her bully tactics. Again... it really sounds like she is attempting to set up a parent child relationship to me. You have to understand that your condescending tone in itself causes people to disagree with you. I suggest you take it down a notch and you might have greater success in getting your point of view across. Point taken. I'm kind of in the devil's advocate role here... so that makes it a bit tougher.
Arieswoman Posted October 11, 2014 Posted October 11, 2014 STM, I don't agree with this, it really sounds like she is attempting to set up a parent child relationship to me. I think the OP was trying to set up some boundaries, but wasn't approaching it the right way(OP sorry to talk about you as if you weren't here) The problem as I see it is that she hadn't got his views on Bachelor Parties/strip clubs before they got married. I really don't know what the way forward is. The OP will never know what he actually got up to so that can't be changed. Can the OP move past this or do they want to move on? Tough choice.
Try Posted October 12, 2014 Posted October 12, 2014 (edited) It doesn't really work like that. You are correct that she did state that he had finally agreed, but also that he "wasn't happy about it". I agree that this doesn't get the marriage off on the right foot. I think the blame can be equally shared in this for his dishonesty and her bully tactics. It does "really work like that". She has every right to be upset that he went upstairs alone to a dark room with a stripper to get a lap dance; many people that share her values system would also be upset by that. You are arrogant and wrong to think that just because you do not agree with her values and beliefs, that she is not entitled to live by them. She was not looking to marry you. She was looking to marry someone that knew who she was and still wanted to marry her. For her to hold a point of view in her value system, and to state such values to her partner, is not a bulling tactic. It is how people that are going to get married are suppose to communicate. If he did not agree to this, he should have told her so, and she could have decided if it was a deal breaker for her as far as them getting married. Both parties will not be “happy about” everything to do with the other partner, but in getting married they have both decided that the total package that the other had offer was worth it. That is how the courtship process is suppose to work. Again, it does really work like that. it really sounds like she is attempting to set up a parent child relationship to me. You have said in previous posts that she was being controlling, and you are now piling it on by saying that "she is attempting to set up a parent child relationship". I call bull to this as all she is doing is establishing marital boundaries. Marriage is by definition controlling, as it is both parties agreeing to be controlled by marital boundaries. If he does not want to be controlled by martial boundaries, he should not get married. He does not get to cake eat having the benefits of being married to her, while having the freedom to live by the boundaries of a single person. You are doing a lot of name calling when you say that the OP is “controlling”, “attempting to set up a parent child relationship” and that the OP is using “bully tactics”. If reminds me of what lawyers often say: “When the law is against you, argue the facts. When the facts are against you, argue the law. When both are against you, call the other lawyer names”. Edited October 12, 2014 by Try 1
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