shaun87 Posted October 5, 2014 Posted October 5, 2014 Hi everyone, first post here, I was debating posting this for a little while... seems to be a lot of useful advice on here so I'll give it a try! So I'm in grad school, 24, and with school just starting again recently that means there's a new cohort in our program just starting out. One girl kind of caught my eye I guess you could say. Everybody from my program went out for drinks one night and she asked me to be her partner for a few games which was fun. She seems pretty comfortable around me but she's also an extravert so it's hard to tell, whereas I'm more of an introvert. Anyway, I got paired up with another female in her class for a one on one tutoring type deal, and this girl I had my eye on also came to my session in addition to going to her own. She told me she wanted her cohort to be more involved with my cohort and that she wanted me to kind of be the one who orchestrated that, so I got her number and so far I've been messaging her to set up things that both of our groups can do together and we've both worked together to set that up. I notice some subtle things like her sitting by me and being a little bit flirty and things like that but other than that I'm not really too sure how I should go about proceeding with this. She is single but may have a fwb. I'm not too sure. I'm afraid to ask her to hang out alone because of the impact that it might have on school. It's a close knit program and I'm not too sure if I should just wait and see how things go or try to make a move. I think it might be a little riskier because of the school aspect but I'm still trying to understand what those risks actually might be. I kind of feel like a high school kid writing this but it's kind of been a source of confusion for me, appreciate any input here. Thank you!
Mirages Posted October 5, 2014 Posted October 5, 2014 I hear you. How about asking her opinion on something, as complex as possible. Show some emotion, let it be an area where she is knowledgeable. Let it be so complex that it drifts into a lunch invitation. So if she has banking experience, get your detailed question together on refinancing your ..., whatever. While not wanting to permanently project submission and worship on all issues, one technical question in an area of knowledge of hers might work. Grad school, should be more brains than bimbo at this phase.
Author shaun87 Posted October 5, 2014 Author Posted October 5, 2014 Thanks Mirages, that was helpful! It may take some time to figure out what she's knowledgeable about but that would be a great option I'd think. I need to find a way to get her alone somehow, as it's difficult when we see each other everyday or every second day but there are ~10 of us in one place. Do you think in the meantime I should still contact her periodically to set up group stuff? She seems to enjoy that. But realistically I'm going to want to switch to the focus to her eventually in addition to doing that.
Mirages Posted October 5, 2014 Posted October 5, 2014 Do you think in the meantime I should still contact her periodically to set up group stuff? Yes, is the short answer, but yes is not the whole remedy as you might imagine. I am no expert, my expertise is largely how I messed up when I was your age... But, I think it is hard to pin the exact moves without being in your group. FYI I am a divorcing 30 something, = different than you, but here goes it. One strategy I have employed is to attach to trusted, known extrovert men, maybe there are some in your group. You can casually pass on info to them; whatever happens work it for benefit: extrovert tells her, sure he is a bit of a prick, but use the event appropriately. If he works with you to solve this, even better, i.e. a double date, he comes up with the ideas. I recently came to know a trustable extrovert man who is prepped to assist me in the same areas you struggle. Some of his first moves in coming to know me were to hand pick women for me, without even me asking... It was during a time it would not have been best for me, but these types will work it for smiles.
Author shaun87 Posted October 9, 2014 Author Posted October 9, 2014 (edited) Thanks again Mirages. I value your opinion and you obviously have more life experience than I do. That's the best thing about this site, lots of experience and also objective insight. I also know it's hard to explain the situation entirely and the group dynamic. I'll try to do the best that I can. One thing I can say is that I really like the extroverted friend idea! problem is the one that's in my circle is a bit too selfish to help me out with that. He said he would but from what I've seen he's incapable (trying to get her for himself). However I really think that's the best option so I'll have to see what I can come up with (or others here). However I also feel a bit of a time crunch. After Christmas I'm going to see her a lot less (if at all) because I won't be in university but will be in the area doing a placement instead. I really wish there was some way that I could ask her out without her being weirded out by it or by it hurting her experience in the program. But part of me is understanding that well, it's making me very anxious at times. Patience is what I'm really good at but it's been a negative for me as well in the past. I guess this situation is also kind of in tune with dating a coworker? Edited October 9, 2014 by shaun87
Tayken Posted October 9, 2014 Posted October 9, 2014 I really wish there was some way that I could ask her out without her being weirded out by it or by it hurting her experience in the program. But part of me is understanding that well, it's making me very anxious at times. Lots of experience here alright and objectivity..the question is here are you prepared to hear both sides of the story? It has been mentioned here a number of times, "don't crap where you eat". I know it is school for you in this case, but you still have to attend classes together, and as you rightfully alluded to, "you don't want to weird her out". I have known people in work places that have taken stress leave off work in similar situations where they were banging someone at work, and it ended. Always think of the down side i.e. she says not interested and was just trying to be friendly.
eleve82 Posted October 9, 2014 Posted October 9, 2014 I'm going to give you my perspective as someone in a small-ish grad school because you sound like you could be one of types of guys in my program. I'm not particularly an extrovert, but I am generally pretty social and for some reason, I keep getting feedback about so and so liking me but never doing anything. Your message, frankly, is confusing to me. What exactly is so "risky"? If you like the girl, but don't want to make an outright move for fear that a potential rejection could make things awkward, or if you don't want to put pressure to scare her off - that's fine, be discreet. Do whatever it takes to ask her out individually. "Hanging out" does not equal a date. "Hooking up" does not equal a date. An "informational session" is not a date. A coffee or lunch or even dinner nearby school after class is NOT a date. In fact, I've done so many of these that it really doesn't mean anything to me - its just socialising. The longer I see a guy as a friend, the longer he stays just a friend. Here's my advice though.. if you find out that you like her and vice versa, trying to keep it shush shush like a dirty secret can backfire on you. I'm speaking from personal experience because if she is anything like me, I lose interest very quickly in guys who are intimidated by the idea of asking me out officially or want to keep their options open by hiding it. Be honest with yourself about whether this is a "risky move" because you'd scare her off or because you are afraid of limiting your options. If its the latter, then you couldn't possibly like her that much anyway.
eleve82 Posted October 9, 2014 Posted October 9, 2014 I'm going to add a line regarding the part about dating a co-worker. This is NOT like dating a co-worker where there could be a real conflict of interest to the employer's interest regarding favouritism to your partner. Doing well at school is a personal choice and the two of you could either enhance or reduce the experience. You two are equals in school - there is no official conflict there.
Author shaun87 Posted October 9, 2014 Author Posted October 9, 2014 (edited) Eleve, thanks for the insight. You have an interesting perspective as you share a few similarities to her on the other end of this. You're right in that I'm in a very small grad program. She is definitely an extrovert and I'm an introvert for sure. And you're right, I guess I mean risky in the sense that I don't want to make her feel awkward especially since I'm almost graduated and I feel like in general their cohort looks up to us in a way. At least I did with the cohort ahead of me anyway, so it may just be an assumption but a possibility. But I don't want to scare her off and I like that our cohorts get together to do group things. I know she finds one area of school a little more difficult, perhaps I can offer to help her out with that if she ever needs it? Or would that just bite me in the butt? Kind of mixed feelings about that one. What about tickets to a sports game, if I said I had an extra and asked her? If she said no I could always take somebody else. I could also just go for asking her to hang out in general. Kinda hard to pry her away from the group. I really dread us just doing group things together forever and having her just see me as a friend. I guess that's why this is making me pretty anxious of late. I have her number but it was through someone in my class so I'm still a bit uncomfortable texting her, especially with the rumblings I've heard a month ago about her having a boy toy. I agree with you. The hush hush thing isn't what I want to be doing. That's mostly why I'm posting here. And it's definitely not because I want to limit my options, my friends know about this and are encouraging of it because they know I'm kind of a picky guy. EDIT: and thanks for the reassurance about it not being as risky as I might have thought. Edited October 9, 2014 by shaun87
eleve82 Posted October 9, 2014 Posted October 9, 2014 I had a 2nd year student offer to help me out in every way - he was pretty charming and confident. He also took me out to places and was very upfront with his interest. I would have honestly given him a chance, if not for him somehow ending up making out with another exchange girl at a graduate party (rookie mistake, who'da thought grad students still do this). Long and short - be bold, but not overly persistent. In grad school, we all incline towards leaders. All your suggestions are good. If she says no, its not the end of the world - A small group setting gives you a chance to show her in a group setting your best qualities without having to ask her out formally. If you naturally exude confidence and are popular/charismatic/smart/whatever, she'll start to notice. Use it to your advantage and have fun while you're at it.
eleve82 Posted October 9, 2014 Posted October 9, 2014 PS: I would drop my boy toy for the right one. Why? Because I respect guys who take me seriously, and my boy toy doesn't (vice versa). So I would not regard him as a threat. Fortune favours the bold. Good luck 1
JuneJulySeptember Posted October 10, 2014 Posted October 10, 2014 I went to a similarly tight knit grad school program (full time) and you are right in comparing it to high school. If you asked her out and got rejected, people would know about it. In my program, there were also guys who were the social leaders and always had attention from the women in the program. Not all of them. But there's a hierarchy in a sense. I had interest in a number of women in my program and I would try and talk to them about class stuff and extend it from there. Women kind of know when you are interested and will cut you off if they feel you are getting too close. I never really got anywhere with any of them. None of them showed any interest in getting to know me better. Of course, you could just ask for a date and the consequences would be not too terrible. It'd probably get around school and be embarrassing, but wouldn't affect anything academic wise. Nobody would really care, but it's still something. From what you write, to be perfectly honest, your chances don't sound too great. But, it's up to you ultimately. My only real piece of advice is to not let it get to the point where you are her classmate for a few semesters and then fall in love with her or something and THEN get rejected. Because there will be more major consequences of that. So either ask or nip it in the bud.
Mirages Posted October 10, 2014 Posted October 10, 2014 problem is the one that's in my circle is a bit too selfish to help me out with that. Yes the one I ended up socializing with happens to be a gay medical professional, somewhat well connected, does not flaunt it, does not flirt me either. A selfish one is worthless as you suggest. My extrovert was/is open as can be to his desire to connect me with a quality woman; I have no qualms about his intentions, but as of the moment, just feel like being single for a few more. Shaun I would for starters check the OLD sites and facebook for her. If by luck she happens to be on OLD sites, that would warm up your approach, eh? Some line like "Hmm, do we know each other?" That's all that would take. You seem to have logic without confidence; a better set of tools than confidence without logic...
Author shaun87 Posted October 10, 2014 Author Posted October 10, 2014 JuneJulySeptember: Thanks for your post and I appreciate the comments. My school/program is unique in that it's probably 80% women and 20% men. The good thing is that I don't feel threatened by any other guy in my program or school for that matter which is good. However, like you attest to, I might not have a chance at all regardless. I think I'm going to continue to throw some signals out there and see how she responds to it (e.g. offering to help with school etc.). You're right in that I should know pretty soon whether or not she's really interested or not. And if not, I think rejection at this point would make me feel better than holding back. As I've said I'm quite picky and I've let girls slip away in the past without trying so I'm kind of tired of letting them all slip away. So I'm going to try but try to convince myself not too care too much if nothing comes of it and she starts acting differently around me / doesn't like it.
Tayken Posted October 10, 2014 Posted October 10, 2014 My school/program is unique in that it's probably 80% women and 20% men. Nursing Massage Therapy Aesthetics Hairdressing
Author shaun87 Posted October 10, 2014 Author Posted October 10, 2014 Mirages: Can I ask what OLDS means? I'm not too familiar. Online Dating Sites maybe? I'm pretty certain she's not on there. In fact I'm almost positive. I have also been told that she doesn't have trouble with guys and is known for being kind of a guy attractor, and with being an extrovert I guess that just isn't up her alley right now. She is definitely on facebook. Most of my cohort have her on there but I haven't added anyone so I don't have her. My FB is a little underused and a bit outdated so I didn't think it would help my chances unless I start updating it beforehand. I've just kind of gotten over FB a little bit over the last couple of years / don't use it much. I really like your ideas though. I don't mean to sound like I'm shooting them all down because I'm not. I'm going to try to integrate all of your guys things and hopefully see what happens. I'm just a bit nervous about going about it the right way. If I know I tried and the outcome isn't good then that's ok, i'll have tried. Thanks for the ending compliment too. I am definitely a deep (and probably over) thinker.
Author shaun87 Posted October 10, 2014 Author Posted October 10, 2014 Nursing Massage Therapy Aesthetics Hairdressing Nope I decided against the Masters in Hairdressing/Massage/Aesthetics/Nursing route But seriously, the way things are going most universities are going to have that ratio. And I'm not complaining.
JuneJulySeptember Posted October 10, 2014 Posted October 10, 2014 I can already tell you that you are too into it. Back up. If you have so many women in your program, take a look and play the field and talk to a bunch of 'em and see where you get with any of them. You didn't apply to only one Masters program and have your heart set on going there without knowing if they would accept you, did you? Don't answer that. Rhetorical question. Anyway, you get my point. Just one person's advice. Feel free to take it or leave it.
Tayken Posted October 10, 2014 Posted October 10, 2014 Just one person's advice. Feel free to take it or leave it Wow...not even a chance for him to phone a friend?
Author shaun87 Posted October 10, 2014 Author Posted October 10, 2014 I can already tell you that you are too into it. Back up. If you have so many women in your program, take a look and play the field and talk to a bunch of 'em and see where you get with any of them. You didn't apply to only one Masters program and have your heart set on going there without knowing if they would accept you, did you? Don't answer that. Rhetorical question. Anyway, you get my point. Just one person's advice. Feel free to take it or leave it. Haha, ok ok I'll clarify, there are many women but not many that I'm into. None in my program actually. I have admittedly had a rough time on the dating scene the last little while. Mostly me being too picky + not knowing who's interested in me + not being interested in those who are. Toning it back is always a good idea, she has intrigued me more so than most lately so consciously taking a step back while still seeing if something could happen would be probably my best bet. But the university analogy is a good one (the answer is no!)
Mirages Posted October 10, 2014 Posted October 10, 2014 She is definitely on facebook. Most of my cohort have her on there but I haven't added anyone so I don't have her. My FB is a little underused and a bit outdated so I didn't think it would help my chances unless I start updating it beforehand. I've just kind of gotten over FB a little bit over the last couple of years / don't use it much. Facebook is not my thing either. You could creep her by leaving flowers on her car anonymously, then she gets curious and gets security to review the video, then she sees you. I really think that such an approach would be too creepy, and risky. Do not expect this specific event to turn out as planned, too clandestine, just thinking aloud... there are many women but not many that I'm into. I hear you on this, I seemed to like 1 out of 4 based on looks, dropped to 1 out of 20 once you know a few details about them. Selectiveness is reasonable. Excellent grades and class participation will be default winners here; easier said than done.
Author shaun87 Posted October 10, 2014 Author Posted October 10, 2014 Facebook is not my thing either. You could creep her by leaving flowers on her car anonymously, then she gets curious and gets security to review the video, then she sees you. I really think that such an approach would be too creepy, and risky. Do not expect this specific event to turn out as planned, too clandestine, just thinking aloud... I hear you on this, I seemed to like 1 out of 4 based on looks, dropped to 1 out of 20 once you know a few details about them. Selectiveness is reasonable. Excellent grades and class participation will be default winners here; easier said than done. Yeah I think that approach would not go over so well I just wrote her a line last night asking how her night went because she told me she had to stay at school till midnight, and then I used the offer to help her / offer my old notes and projects etc if she needed some guidance on stuff. But I think she interpreted it as I was offering all that to her whole class and not just her so she used "we" a lot as if I were talking to her whole group. Might have shot myself in the foot already if I have to spend time photocopying 100s of pages
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