veronese Posted March 8, 2005 Posted March 8, 2005 I've noticed one or two hard hitting comments from Uberfrau along the line of 'behave like a door mat, get treated like one' (not quoted verbatim) I've often thought some of the posters on LS have/continue to behave in ways that (IMO) are so lacking in confidence and self esteem they haven't got the strength to see the wood from the trees and make the changes necessary to break whatever cycle they are in. Before I realised I was also being deceived by my husband I often despaired of various friends who time and time again got involved with partners who clearly didn't love and respect them but nevertheless, battled on regardless of what anyone else thought of their situation. I used to think these friends (women mostly) were just 'those types' of women. Weak women. Needy women. Insecure, foolish, silly women who were just made that way and couldn't help behaving in a manner that ultimately brought them pain and suffering. Well I didn't berate them but privately felt relief that I wasn't such a pathetic female, reliant and dependent on any man, and I was of the firm belief that should I find myself in similar circumstances, I wouldn't be such an idiot and remain with such a man. Just beginning to wonder though just how different I am from them? Maybe my man disguised his deceit and character more successfully, but nevertheless, I can see now how absolutely devoted I have always been, and how manipulative, controlling, demanding and domineering he has been. Hindsight is such a wonderful thing! I've also begun to realise how incredibly immature he can be. He's a real attention seeker, not only with the world at large obviously, accumulating a harem of adoring women in addition to a doting wife and family. But he's also very demanding right here in our home. I was chatting animatedly to our daughter one night recently, unintentionally excluding him from our conversation, when out of the blue a loud noise erupted from behind me. There he was, sitting in an armchair, playing with a loud, electronic mega phone. Why? To be noticed I guess, can't think of any other reason! I've noticed several more incidents of this kind, moments when the attention is off him and he finds a way of drawing it back. When it's in competition with his children and dogs it makes him look so childish. So, is Uberfrau right? Do we allow people to treat us in these ways but convince ourselves we're not 'door mats' like so many others? I'm beginning to think I might be!
laRubiaBonita Posted March 8, 2005 Posted March 8, 2005 well some people do see a difference between a "door mat" and "floor rug"....after all one is IN the huse, the other is outside (in the elements)! Even though both get tread upon.
westernxer Posted March 8, 2005 Posted March 8, 2005 Your husband's quite the narcissist. I don't think you're deceiving yourself by being a devoted wife and placing trust in him. Some people are just predators, that's all, and they look for ways to exploit the virtuous qualities we exude to others. I had a roommate like that... in the beginning he really sold himself as this hard-working individual who valued integrity. After a couple months, it started to dawn on me that he was trying to break me down just so I would be sympathetic to his financial situation. He must've noticed how cordial I was in the beginning, and he tried to bank on it, literally. I finally realized he was all talk, and I thank my lucky stars that I didn't let him talk his way into my wallet. Uberfrau's doormat analogy is right on the money (back to money, again). People will walk all over you if you let them, but it looks like your eyes have started to open. Better late than never... too bad it has to be your spouse. He's also insecure, if you haven't noticed this already. Sounds like he should've been an actor.
jmargel Posted March 8, 2005 Posted March 8, 2005 It's not only 'You get treated you who you let others treat you' but it is also the 'notion' that love is blind, but yet on top of that is that you read stories about how one mistreats their spouse in a marriage, etc.. but it can "never happen to you". Most people have a tendency to look for the good in people even when they do something bad. Per chance the thing they did wrong was out of character for them and it's not truly who they are. However when it's a consent day to day happening, it is part of their personality. Also, most people who are unhappy in a relationship or get treated bad stay in the relationship because they are "comfortable" in it. They know what to expect. What really frightens them is the fear of the unknown. However like most would agree, the "fear" of the unknown is actually greater than the unknown itself. Only the mistreated person themselves can gather up the courage to leave. That is also harder to do especially when the mistreater is battling them into the ground psychologically.
uberfrau Posted March 8, 2005 Posted March 8, 2005 Of course Uberfrau is right. Look Veronese, you said your husband is competing for your attention (or any other woman's) against your children and dogs. Do you really want a husband/child?? Cause that's what you've got. So you stay, despite what you've admitted thus far. What is it? Do you NEED to feel NEEDED? Ever seen the movie dangerous liasons w/John Malkovich? I've read your posts, and your husband's treatment of you. You are a doormat. But at least you have opened your eyes...but if you close them again, then you are just an idiot. Jmargel made a good point about the known/unknown and how that influences people to stay in self-destructive relationships. You KNOW your husband is a certain way. You don't know whether he'll change or not (unlikely). You don't know if you would find another man or not (after this one, why would you want another?). How really bad is the unknown? My sister in law is married to an abusive husband who abuses meth and is chronically unemployed. Textbook doormat. They have 3 kids, one that is autistic. Very sad situation. What is her 'unknown' that she is so afraid of? It can't be lack of money without him, cause he is totally useless in that regard (besides, with or without him, they qualify for tons of welfare). Personally, I think she is insecure and believes that she is worthless without a man in her life. So in her demented mind, she isn't a loser as long as she stays married to one. She needs someone to cling to. But she clings to a thornbush-tsk tsk. Personally, i'd rather deal with the great unknown , than a known, and PROVEN loser like my brother in law. ANd considering what is avaliable when it comes to men, i'd RATHER be alone, or deal with the unknown. So if Untermann runs off to California, I would NEVER even date again. I know the BS women have to put up with when marrying/dating men (sexual demands, pornography, emotional demands, emotional neglect, jealousy, possessiveness, abuse, all laid out nicely here at LS). Yeah, i need another husband like a bullet between my eyes.
sylviaguardian Posted March 9, 2005 Posted March 9, 2005 Uberfrau is right. In general women are the doormats of society. How many times have you heard a man asking how to combine a career and children? How many men come home from work and get stressed doing laundry, making packed lunches and cleaning out the hamster? Sorry guys - I am having a bad day. Syl
Mr Spock Posted March 9, 2005 Posted March 9, 2005 You're not the first woman to have the wool pulled over her eyes Veronese. It's not shameful. I really do think your husband has killed the love. Can you think of a way to get it back? I think your marriage is in danger of foundering-from what you're describing you're beginning to not be able to stand the man you married. And you're despairing because even though your mind tells you to kick his ass out on the curb you don't WANT to, because you still love him, and it's affecting your self esteem. Plus, with the recent flirtation you're realizing that perhaps he's NOT the pick of the litter, from what you described about your previous image of him you almost idolized him. But that's just MHO. You're different from those women because they're multiple offenders, while you seem to have only struck out with the one. You really need to express these feelings to him. If you can't, I think your marriage is toast. Are you still both in counselling?
izzybelle Posted March 9, 2005 Posted March 9, 2005 i've definitely been the doormat, and it's so hard to pick yourself off and get out. my H will never understand how much i felt like a doormat in our marriage, he just doesn't see his behavior that way. and sadly, never will. when i realized, through counseling and a lot of introspection on my own (that was free ), that i was becoming an awful mom, i was avoiding being home because i couldn't be around him anymore, and that my self-esteem was in the toilet i got the strength and got out. i was tired of letting things happen to me.. people said i took the easy way out... they have no idea how wrong they were. it would have been so much easier to stay a doormat.... but it's a hard road out and i have no doubt that i'm still a recovering doormat... maybe i've worked my way up to being a throw rug
uberfrau Posted March 9, 2005 Posted March 9, 2005 If women choose to stay doormats, then that is their problem. However, these women, who may have daughters should consider the example they are setting for them-which isn't a good one. If you want to be a doormat, fine-but do you want your daughter to be that way? Or let your son see that its 'okay' to treat women like crap because daddy does it to mommy? IMO, Women don' think beyond their own feelings and emotions-they wallow in them. The old 'he beats me, but it's okay because I LOVE HIM' routine becomes destructive when children are involved.
Author veronese Posted March 26, 2005 Author Posted March 26, 2005 Originally posted by westernxer Your husband's quite the narcissist. I don't think you're deceiving yourself by being a devoted wife and placing trust in him. Some people are just predators, that's all, and they look for ways to exploit the virtuous qualities we exude to others. Uberfrau's doormat analogy is right on the money (back to money, again). People will walk all over you if you let them, but it looks like your eyes have started to open. Better late than never... too bad it has to be your spouse. He's also insecure, if you haven't noticed this already. Sounds like he should've been an actor. You hit the nail on the had westernxer... he is insecure - very insecure, and curiously enough he often adopts a 'handsome actor' persona for a joke after seeing a show in the US. After the performance he gave to me all those years I definitely think he's a contender for an award next season! Originally posted by jmargel you read stories about how one mistreats their spouse in a marriage, etc.. but it can "never happen to you". Most people have a tendency to look for the good in people even when they do something bad. Per chance the thing they did wrong was out of character for them and it's not truly who they are. Also, most people who are unhappy in a relationship or get treated bad stay in the relationship because they are "comfortable" in it. They know what to expect. What really frightens them is the fear of the unknown. However like most would agree, the "fear" of the unknown is actually greater than the unknown itself. I read those stories jmargel and didn't recognise myself in any of them - poor deluded fool that I was/am(?) The fear of the unknown is undeniably a factor affecting my feelings, but narcissist though he is, fundamentally we aren't doing too badly. He's never beaten or abused me, neither physically or verbally. He's actually quite a nice guy, God only knows the whole world loves him! While I am in possession of my sanity, agreeably contented, stable and fulfilled, I will continue in this marriage indefinitely. If the situation deteriorated though I wouldn't hesitate to call it a day, I do not intend to cause irreparable damage on our children. They have been affected moderately during the last 12 months, but after consideration I concluded a glimpse of reality would probably be beneficial to them, after all guys, this is real life! I've mentioned before probably that our home was a cross between the Walton Family, (Blue ridge mountains of Virginia), the Von Trapp Family, (Austria, Sound of Music) and the Ingalls Family (residing in that Little House on the Prairie). I was weaned on these shows and always strived to create a comparably nauseating family right here in London! Could be done couldn't it? Point is, if my children had to go from 'Doe a Dear' to 'Kramer vs. Kramer' I am convinced they would be permanently damaged. Originally posted by uberfrau Do you really want a husband/child?? Cause that's what you've got. Do you NEED to feel NEEDED? You are a doormat. But at least you have opened your eyes...but if you close them again, then you are just an idiot. You KNOW your husband is a certain way. You don't know whether he'll change or not (unlikely). You don't know if you would find another man or not (after this one, why would you want another?). I gather Uberfrau has left the building, but just in case.... I DO know he is a certain way now, seriously preferable believing the contrary. I DON'T know if he'll change, no, but how I am changing is currently more personally interesting. I don't know if I would find another man again but I don't think it's very likely. Would I want another? I can't envisage it. You're right Uberfrau, why would I want another? Originally posted by Mr Spock You're not the first woman to have the wool pulled over her eyes Veronese. It's not shameful. I really do think your husband has killed the love. Can you think of a way to get it back? I think your marriage is in danger of foundering-from what you're describing you're beginning to not be able to stand the man you married. And you're despairing because even though your mind tells you to kick his ass out on the curb you don't WANT to, because you still love him, and it's affecting your self esteem. Plus, with the recent flirtation you're realizing that perhaps he's NOT the pick of the litter, from what you described about your previous image of him you almost idolized him. But that's just MHO. You're different from those women because they're multiple offenders, while you seem to have only struck out with the one. You really need to express these feelings to him. If you can't, I think your marriage is toast. Are you still both in counselling? Hi Spock, Thanks for your reply. Your reply is a reflection I suspect of a posting I made on a particularly despondent day. There are days still when I loathe and abide him, but overall Spock, things aren't too bad. I hope our marriage isn't toast, but who knows? And I'm ashamed to confess no counselling as yet. Go on y'all, shoot me! Originally posted by uberfrau If women choose to stay doormats, then that is their problem. However, these women, who may have daughters should consider the example they are setting for them-which isn't a good one. If you want to be a doormat, fine-but do you want your daughter to be that way? Or let your son see that its 'okay' to treat women like crap because daddy does it to mommy? IMO, Women don' think beyond their own feelings and emotions-they wallow in them. The old 'he beats me, but it's okay because I LOVE HIM' routine becomes destructive when children are involved. The example I am setting our daughter and son has been one of my main concerns. He doens't beat me or abuse me but he did bloody crap on me the bugger! It's an old cliche maybe, but I WANT to try to forgive this episode, our marriage and children deserve that. But I can promise the whole forum that a second strike won't be negotiable. He'd be out. Anyway, got more pressing issues to deal with right now... Laters guys x
ubermann Posted March 27, 2005 Posted March 27, 2005 Ya, sie hat die richtige antworte. Aber sie ist nur tot. Yep Vera she's gone it's real funny to see you put this up again, I knew there were others out there who could relate to her. She's got great elixirs for the a**h*** disease. Good luck on your new found empowerment, I don't think a lot of men are comfortable with strong willed independant powerful and highly intelligent womwen, it makes it much too difficult to be selfish. That's why I'm the uberman, she ditched all those other huys and we made it! She did smile to see you put this up.
Author veronese Posted December 31, 2005 Author Posted December 31, 2005 Sorry to revisit an old post, but I was browsing around the site and came across a thread about narcisstic men. When I read it I recognised so many things true of my husband. Then I remembered someone once saying that my husband was a narcissist in an old thread, and found it was westernxer in this one. Well I think you were right. Until I read up about it last night though I didn't know that much about this disorder. I'm pretty bloody certain that my husband is one though!! The other thing I noticed in this thread was that Uberfrau asked if I had seen Dangerous Liasons? Well I have but many years ago so don't remember much about it. Curiously though, it is one of my H's favourite films. I always assumed he liked it because of the abundance of cleavages and heaving bosoms of the female cast. But maybe it was the theme of the film instead? Going to have to get my hands on the movie and watch it again! Happy new year everyone Love veron xxx
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