MW vs Single woman involved in affairs..

[SawtoothMars]

Ah, that explains it. From your other post it sounded like you were speaking as if it were known and proven fact. But you were just speaking from your own experience and nothing else.

 

I don't think my experience is much different from that of other people. I've never seen or met a woman who cheated and was forced to suffer any major consequences.

 

I watched Silver Linings Playbook yesterday. Even in a position where we are supposed to really dislike the main characters cheating xWife... she suffers no serious consequences and is generally placed on a pedestal by everyone in the story. Hell, she even gets to keep every single material belonging they owned and it isn't even questioned by the characters. Had the genders been reversed this would not have been possible.

 

I have to agree, the the first response to a wife cheating is that her husband may have caused it, and its emotional not sexual need, while with a man they assume he is just a P hound and there is no emotion in it.

We are moving beyond this male/female categorization I hope. Studies and experience is finding out that women can be hounds (have a good husband but want some strange), and men have emotional needs as well. There can be very little difference these days in the motivations or reasons between men and women for affairs.

However these old stereotypes still linger - a single OW must have been played or tricked into having sex with a MM, or wants to marry the guy and have his home....but if its a single OM having sex with a MW - well he is a predator and just wants one thing - free sex. Its all bull****, women can be like this too as well as men - and the reverse. Also both (single AP, MS) maybe hounds, or both may have emotional needs. Just too many combinations - dont assume the motivations or causes of a single OW or a MW for cheating.

 

No... from what I see studies are reinforcing these stereotypes rather than removing them. I agree that most of them are crap. I feel that Single OW are particularly demonized.

[eye of the storm]

Sawtooth mars, lol I can't believe you are quoting a fictional movie to prove your point.

 

My ExH took practically everything, and he was the WS. That doesn't mean I think men win in settlements. It just means I personally got screwed.

 

Do women sometimes get the benefit of the doubt...probably yes. Some people still feel kids should be with their mother. But times and attitudes are changing.

 

In the past there were a lot of men how also felt that way, so the mother could tend the young and the men could focus on their careers.

[AmyBamy]

You do realise youre looking at a skewed sample over there, right? Becaue ill tell you, I find the OW/OM board "depressing af"....but way more frustrating, because most people there went into their stuation with eyes wide open...and still made those choices...but I guess its all a matter of perspective, right?

 

I think it's just reality. There are just a lot of people in unhappy relationships and they stay for a million reasons, and love isn't the biggest one. I realize that this is a message board for "advice" so yes, I'm sure that there some skewing there. But you don't have to be on this board to see or hear that there are a lot of people who are miserable being married. Stereotypical jokes come from some grain of truth, and we all know what those are about marriage. And the divorce rate in the US kind of speaks for itself I think.

 

Are you insinuating that people that got married didn't go in "with their eyes wide open"? That seems weird to me as I don't know a lot of people who are held at gunpoint and forced to marry.

[AmyBamy]

I didn't read every single post carefully, but in skimming most of the posts I didn't really see "so many people" arguing about whether or not someone can be unhappily married or whether you can be happy single. I saw no one present an idea that marriage is always satisfying and singlehood is not. I don't think that's what the question the OP posed asked... I see more responses saying why an A with two married people may be a better bet or why a MW has more to lose over a single OW or not, which was the question. I personally didn't see arguments along the lines of what you posed.

 

Most of us have had experiences on the side of being single or in a relationship.I think most people therefore know the realities that relationships are not always happy neither is single hood automatically always happy either, or the reverse, rather it's about you, your life and your outlook. If you have lots of married people saying they envy you it may simply be that you know a lot of unhappily married people...whereas for example I've not had any married people tell me anything of the sort. So it's definitely a reflection of the people you are around.

 

As for looking at LS to prove that people are dissatisfied in marriages...well duh lol...you don't need LS for that. It goes without saying but in any event most people on LS come seeking advice when things aren't going well, when they are unsure, have questions etc, so whether dating or married or in an A, most threads here, not just the marriage board, will be about people's unhappiness or issues. So looking on here tells you the obvious fact that some people are unhappy in their Rs. However, as I said, I saw no one making a blanket argument for all marriages being satisfying or single life automatically being dissatisfying, so I guess I don't see why they'd need that kind of "proof" as I don't think they were trying to say the opposite at all. I see posts answering what's at stake for two married people in an A vs a single person in an A...and I've seen arguments for both sides, some saying the single person is better off in the A and some saying the MW is better off in the A. It depends also on what you're considering. I look at it from the angle: what makes for a more stable A? I say two married folks are better off. Some are looking at it as who has more to lose... so they say the MW is more foolish because if found out she may lose more than a single woman...others look at it as who has more to gain not doing it at all, and say the single woman can just choose not to be in it etc.

 

 

Never mind.

[Got it]

That's kind of what I'm talking about. I actually got a lot of pressure to patch things up with my cheating xWife. She never got any pressure to stop cheating except from me.

 

 

 

When my xwife started cheating, practically everyone asked me what I did to cause it. Also, the divorce process put me at a serious disadvantage for being a man. In particular my xWife's lawyer convinced her that by claiming spousal abuse she could take nearly 100% of our marital assets. To most people's minds it explained why she was cheating and even after I was able to prove it a false accusation it continued to cause me problems.

 

 

 

I think this situation depends highly on the people involved. On a personal level... sometimes women are held more accountable... and sometimes not. I think single women tend to get that "home wrecker" label.

 

I was talking at a fairly zoomed out level, as kind of society as a whole. I think it's fair to say that the overall perception is that when a woman cheats it is her husbands fault.

 

 

 

I know a lot of you are kind of claiming this... but I don't actually see any real life evidence of it.

 

What specifically are you talking about when you say a "higher standard"? I'm curious to hear your experience.

 

I know for my husband, when he found out about his ex wife's affair he was blamed for it. Working too much, never home, etc (dealing with 9/11 which the field he was in had had a major impact so fighting to keep his job).

 

So he did feel like he needed to just suck it up and get over it.

 

In regards to women being held "more accountable" it is a more general perception that women are the gate keepers of sex so women are more accountable that sex happened because they "are responsible for sex". This is not just tied to affairs but in promiscuity perceptions, non marital sex, rape, etc.

 

Rape and The Gatekeeper Narrative | Opinion | The Harvard Crimson

 

Women are Sometimes Responsible for Rape

 

http://comminfo.rutgers.edu/~kgreene/research/pdf/sexroles2005.pdf

 

http://news.stanford.edu/pr/00/feldman517.html

 

http://ideas.time.com/2012/11/12/petraeus-scandal-are-we-guilty-of-a-double-standard/

Edited October 6, 2014 by Got it

[the_artist_1970]

They are both crap, and comparing levels of crapness is useless....but it does take a special kind of selfish to wish for the destruction of a family and to wish for that pain on innocent children, just so you can win someone else's man.

 

I totally agree. That is why I am so surprised when single women label MM who don't leave their families for them as narcissists or sociopaths because the MM lied to them. What is a woman who knowingly involves herself with a MM, tries to make him leave his wife for them because they want him to themselves?? I called that narcissistic behavior. Getting mad because the MM won't leave is really selfish, narcissistic behavior IMO. Why get involved with a MM in the first place if you are looking for a life partner. The MM already has a life partner no matter what he tells you. And to hang on for years waiting for a MM to leave his wife makes no sense at all. Both the MM and the OW are narcissists.

[Got it]

I totally agree. That is why I am so surprised when single women label MM who don't leave their families for them as narcissists or sociopaths because the MM lied to them. What is a woman who knowingly involves herself with a MM, tries to make him leave his wife for them because they want him to themselves?? I called that narcissistic behavior. Getting mad because the MM won't leave is really selfish, narcissistic behavior IMO. Why get involved with a MM in the first place if you are looking for a life partner. The MM already has a life partner no matter what he tells you. And to hang on for years waiting for a MM to leave his wife makes no sense at all. Both the MM and the OW are narcissists.

 

1. If he tells you he doesn't have a life partner, than how is that not taken into account? So people have "life partners" whether they agree or not?

 

2. Can we stop bantering around medical diagnosis so much? This is really a general request of everyone. Self diagnosis people, regardless of how esteemed we feel our background, is usually wrong. Let's leave it to the professionals, mkay?

 

3. While there are some predatory OW and OM, it is usually not quite that set up. And I think this falls into the bigger discussion on how men are painted as less responsible and women are held to a higher moral compass (which is sexist).

 

4. And there are both MOM and MOW who get together with the idea that both will leave to be together. So this "leaving" isn't just done/expected by SOP.

[kjohn]

sometimes I feel that when an already married women is involved in an affair, that she is made out to seem as less of a fool than a Single women might be seen.. Do u agree?

 

Anyone who participates in an affair is acting foolishly.

[MissBee]

Its like, even if the MM cheated the MW in the affair, it went bad or something, its like it doesn't matter for her, because she has the loving husband and home to go to... U know what imean? whereas a single woman might end up feeling like she lost more and looking more cheated and like a fool...

Your thoughts?

 

 

I think on either side there are things which will be a bit better based on being a MOW and things which are worse, and then for the single OW, things which will be a bit better because she's single and things which will be worse. Each position has its own stakes, its own benefits, if you can call it that, and its own drawbacks.

 

I think a single OW may have more support if things should end, the ones who confided in friends perhaps, whereas a MW grieving the end of the affair will often have nowhere to turn as most don't tell their friends about it and even if they have told them, there is still their spouse whom they are hiding it from, so theirs cannot be as open of a grieving process. Lots of single folks don't tell anyone about the A but I think way more married people keep the A a secret, so in terms of endings, processing it etc. I think the single OW may have it a bit better. But yea on the other hand, a MW could distract herself by pouring herself into her marriage as she already has an existing relationship, and depending on the state of it, could use it in the same way someone uses a rebound - as an emotional buffer. A single OW may not have that. Likewise DDAY for the single OW will look a lot different than for the MOW. Unless the single OW worked for the MM or was a family friend or something like that, dday usually means you may get thrown under the bus and the affair ends and your heart may be broken but that's about it in terms of consequences whereas for a MOW the consequences to her: her AP's spouse telling her spouse, or her spouse finding out on his own, and what that means will be very different and often more detrimental.

 

I mean you can go down the list of things and find where on one side it may be better if you're a MOW and where being a single OW is better or worse for either. I do think overall two married people in an affair are probably better off, only because it's often more of a level playing field. But that's only one aspect. It depends on the angle and what you're measuring better against (better in terms of ddays, better in terms of wanting similar things and having similar interests in keeping things a particular way, better in terms of support after A ends, better in terms of consequences, better in terms of how others will judge it etc). I think the question is less easy to answer as an overall better, but easier to measure in terms of certain aspects.

Edited October 6, 2014 by MissBee

[cocorico]

I've never seen or met a woman who cheated and was forced to suffer any major consequences.

 

I'm always amused when people invoke feminism to justify their own marital infidelity, but use it to slam the infidelity of others.

 

Example A: WW decides M doesn't suit her. She has an A, gets kicked out by BH. It's all terribly unjust, she claims. M serves only the needs of men, why should women suffer the indignities of being someone's possession? As strike a blow for feminism....

 

WW makes a point of supporting the As of her (female) friends during her second M. Because, As strike a blow for feminism.

 

Hen one day, her H tells her he's been having an A and will be leaving her. Suddenly, As no longer strike a blow for feminism. Now As are the epitome of evil. Why? Because *she* is now on the receiving end! and what's good for the goose is most definitely not allowed to be good for the gander.

[Got it]

I'm always amused when people invoke feminism to justify their own marital infidelity, but use it to slam the infidelity of others.

 

Example A: WW decides M doesn't suit her. She has an A, gets kicked out by BH. It's all terribly unjust, she claims. M serves only the needs of men, why should women suffer the indignities of being someone's possession? As strike a blow for feminism....

 

WW makes a point of supporting the As of her (female) friends during her second M. Because, As strike a blow for feminism.

 

Hen one day, her H tells her he's been having an A and will be leaving her. Suddenly, As no longer strike a blow for feminism. Now As are the epitome of evil. Why? Because *she* is now on the receiving end! and what's good for the goose is most definitely not allowed to be good for the gander.

 

I don't think that is gender specific and more of unknowingly receiving the gifts you have bestowed upon another.

 

Regardless of feelings, emotions, and ties to the person, the blow to the ego that someone cheated on you has a pretty large impact.

 

Similarly, when someone breaks up with a person but when that person starts dating becomes jealous, threatened, etc. It is an ego thing more than anything else but it is usually misread as far more.

 

In both cases, it is far more of "I don't want to play with my toy but I don't want anyone else to either" syndrome.

[DKT3]

I don't think that is gender specific and more of unknowingly receiving the gifts you have bestowed upon another.

 

Regardless of feelings, emotions, and ties to the person, the blow to the ego that someone cheated on you has a pretty large impact.

 

Similarly, when someone breaks up with a person but when that person starts dating becomes jealous, threatened, etc. It is an ego thing more than anything else but it is usually misread as far more.

 

In both cases, it is far more of "I don't want to play with my toy but I don't want anyone else to either" syndrome.

 

Its more then a blow to the ego, being cheated on can change you, it did me. Changed the way I view people, relationships and love.

 

I agree with the second half. In my case she was enraged when I got involved with another woman. She had all kinds of excuses why. One that really just made me laugh was she felt (at the time) that this woman who I started dating a year after the divorce, was a factor in me leaving and that we were involved while I was still married to her.

[Popsicle]

I have seen a ton of studies on the topic and never has the number been above 28%. Most are in the 10-15% range. Men simply don't stay with WW's in large numbers.

Studies? Where? I doubt that. They stay (despite all their fuss).

[Got it]

Its more then a blow to the ego, being cheated on can change you, it did me. Changed the way I view people, relationships and love.

 

I agree with the second half. In my case she was enraged when I got involved with another woman. She had all kinds of excuses why. One that really just made me laugh was she felt (at the time) that this woman who I started dating a year after the divorce, was a factor in me leaving and that we were involved while I was still married to her.

 

What I am saying is even when someone is done with the other party, even in the minimum level of attachment, just the sheer fact to find out they cheated can be a blow to the ego.

[Got it]

Studies? Where? I doubt that. They stay (despite all their fuss).

 

How are you supporting your stance? Do you have studies indicating otherwise?

[Popsicle]

How are you supporting your stance? Do you have studies indicating otherwise?

 

Nope and neither does he. That's my point. We are both here though and the folks here stay. The folks I know in real life stay too.