Divorce or not?

[oldshirt]

 

 

whenever someone has sex with someone else's wife, the OM is instinctually seen as the stronger man and the husband seen as the weaker. It's all about a subconscious perception and has nothing to do with the reality of the details. The husband can be a multi-millionaire, 6 1/2 fit tall, male model and movie star, bench press 500lbs and be hung like a mule and the OM can be some Average Schmoe down at the tire plant and he will still be perceived as the Top Dawg because he had the giblets and the ability to take what the other man had.

 

In other words, in a situation involving an established couple and another man, the OM is almost always the alpha male by default, even if any other situation he might viewed as the lesser man in terms of looks, money, status, fitness, height etc.

 

 

There are a few specific exceptions to this but since she was screwing around with him behind your back, those points are moot in this case.

 

 

The bottom line here is there is two possible scenarios on how this cuckolding situation came to pass -

 

 

- One is you allowed it in which case she sees you as weak and unable to guard and protect her and do not value her enough to keep other men away and has lost attraction for you because she sees you as a pussy and him a stronger man that values her more.

 

 

-Or the other is that you are actually the one that initiated this and were the one that pushed her into it some how and were the driving force behind it, in which case she sees you as a domineering jerk who doesn't value her and gets off on seeing her used and demeaned by other men for your own jollys and she sees you as an ass. Her attachment to the OM came as a result of him showing a value for her (probably him whispering it in her ear while you were busy spanking in the corner oblivious to it)

 

 

Either way this is a very serious and dark situation.

[Spectre]

Me and my wife always had a very liberal lifestyle. We had other people in our bed, and some other things.

Six months ago, I pushed her into "cuckolding me" and taking a boyfriend. At the same time we started to have trouble at home, and we decided to stop her thing with that guy. We continued to have trouble, so she start to see him again.

When I brought the divorce papers home, she told me she was not seeing him anymore, and we should try again.

Should I try or just go ahead with divorce?

 

You need to divorce her. You pushed her into cuckolding you, but you did NOT push her into cheating. Cheating is exactly what she did when you decided to stop and she continued anyways. She only then says she will stop seeing him once you bring home divorce papers? Cut your losses and leave.

 

There is no question you asking her to "cuckold" you in the first place was a very very bad idea, but it was something YOU agreed to. You did not agree to her continuing to see him after you had decided it should end. So we really have a case of adultery here. I don't care why she did it, you can blame sex hormones or that she saw you as weak for this..but none of those things would of actually made her continue having sex with this guy. She had a premeditated affair with this guy after you tried to put a stop to it..there really isn't anything here worth saving man. Her continuing to do it shows a complete lack of love and respect for you.

 

I would of told you to merely just go to therapy if all that had happened was you got her to cuckold and then did not actually enjoy it and were disturbed by it. I could get that, but at the same time it would be something you told her to do. However in this case..you *also* told her to stop and she did not. She had a premeditated affair, I stress the word premeditated because it makes an affair all the more worse: she woke up every day she was with him knowing that she would be cheating on you that day..and not caring. That makes it all the more cruel and for me that is a big part of why there is nothing left worth saving.

Edited October 4, 2014 by Spectre

[whichwayisup]

Other things like, too much arguing over laundry and dishes and money....

Yes we have 2 kids.

Well, if she is not attracted to me anymore, then we should divorce. But when that started we would introduce other people in our bed not often. and she never had any interest in any of those people, so I dont think it as a game changer at the time.

When we married we were young and crazy, If we did a bad choice, we should change it now.

 

I think I will insist until I am sure its over. I dont want to look back and think "I should have tried more".

 

After we "separated", she started to separate really well the days (nights) each one had to go out (before she would only go, almost). I started o go out and do my thing (ride my motorcycle), and made some friends, had fun. It started to feel so good not having her controlling my life anymore.

 

I have to stop now, I'm at work and abt to cry.

 

For the sake of your kids, you owe it to them and to each other to give your marriage a good last shot, your best shot.

 

Those fights aren't the reason why you're divorcing. You two have let life get in the way and stopped putting each other first. You both emotionally detached from one another and unfortunately her sexual desire is less.

 

Your marriage can be saved as long as you both are willing to put in 100% and fight hard together to make it work.

 

Each of you should do counseling on your own as well, but use the same counselor for both (marriage and individual).

 

Sorry you're hurting.

[Spectre]

For the sake of your kids, you owe it to them and to each other to give your marriage a good last shot, your best shot.

 

Wait, why? Why does he owe it to his kids to stay with a horrible cheating woman? Doesn't he owe it to himself to get this person out of his life?

 

The wife also kind of owed it to their kids to NOT utterly cheat and betray their father..so why is it on this guy to essentially have to suffer for the rest of his life by staying married to this person? Like I said, it doesn't matter if he told her to cuckcold in the first place because he also told her to stop. Why should he settle for staying with a woman who could do this to him?

 

Those fights aren't the reason why you're divorcing.

 

The main reason I would imagine the divorce is happening is because his wife slept with another man after he had specifically told her she could not.

 

Your marriage can be saved as long as you both are willing to put in 100% and fight hard together to make it work.

 

I disagree, maybe the marriage could of been saved if his wife had stopped doing this when he told her to, but she didn't so..what is there to save? Why is it worth saving a marriage so he can stay married to a cheater? I just will never get that. He owes it to himself and to his children to find someone who respects the vows of marriage. He owes it to himself to find someone who would rather cut off their own arm as opposed to having an affair with some scumbag.

[regret143]

Did you sleep with other people or did you just push her to do it? Sometimes that can be a big hangup for a wife.

 

Also... what exactly do you mean by "other things"? Drugs?

 

Other things like we went to swing clubs, had sex with audience... fun stuff

[regret143]

People through around the terms like 'alpha male' etc without understanding the concepts or knowing what it means. This isn't about the size of "junk" or bank accounts.

 

 

whenever someone has sex with someone else's wife, the OM is instinctually seen as the stronger man and the husband seen as the weaker. It's all about a subconscious perception and has nothing to do with the reality of the details. The husband can be a multi-millionaire, 6 1/2 fit tall, male model and movie star, bench press 500lbs and be hung like a mule and the OM can be some Average Schmoe down at the tire plant and he will still be perceived as the Top Dawg because he had the giblets and the ability to take what the other man had.

 

 

By allowing her to have sex with other men, she instinctually sees you as weak and of not valuing her because you allowed another man to stick his dck in her and fill her up with his sperm (again specific realities don't matter, so don't come back and argue they used condoms)

 

 

 

 

 

 

I am kind of wondering whether you actually value her or not myself.

 

 

Do you even want to save your marriage and your relationship with her?

 

 

Let's start there and work from there. Are you done with her or do you truly and sincerely want to be with her?

 

You are absolutely right. This weekend the told me she only stayed with him because he valued her when I didn't. Not that it justifies, but it explains.

 

About if I want to save it or not, I'm not sure anymore. First she hurt me a lot. Now that she is back, you would assume she is kissing my ass... but no. She is full of demands. Fair demands, but she should be trying to make me like her, not demanding that I make her like me. Weird.

[regret143]

For the sake of your kids, you owe it to them and to each other to give your marriage a good last shot, your best shot.

 

Those fights aren't the reason why you're divorcing. You two have let life get in the way and stopped putting each other first. You both emotionally detached from one another and unfortunately her sexual desire is less.

 

Your marriage can be saved as long as you both are willing to put in 100% and fight hard together to make it work.

 

Each of you should do counseling on your own as well, but use the same counselor for both (marriage and individual).

 

Sorry you're hurting.

 

That is exactly what I'm doing. Giving it a last chance. So far is not going well, but it has a little of hope.

My sexual desire is not less. Hers is. That is a big problem. I am a very sexual person (as if you couldn't notice yet...), and I can't have a lame sex life.

[regret143]

Sorry for commenting so late, but I can only do it at work, at home she is always around.

[BetrayedH]

You are absolutely right. This weekend the told me she only stayed with him because he valued her when I didn't. Not that it justifies, but it explains.

 

About if I want to save it or not, I'm not sure anymore. First she hurt me a lot. Now that she is back, you would assume she is kissing my ass... but no. She is full of demands. Fair demands, but she should be trying to make me like her, not demanding that I make her like me. Weird.

 

It's a somewhat cruel reality that when infidelity happens, it's not just the wayward that needs to work on the marriage but the betrayed partner as well. While contrition on her part should be readily apparent, forgiveness on your part (and a willingness to work on your role in the marriage) is part of the formula for reconciling, IMHO. It's not just going to be about her kissing your ass.

 

That said, the remorse needs to come first, not the forgiveness. You might want to consider a lack of true remorse on her part to be a dealbreaker for you.

[oldshirt]

It's a somewhat cruel reality that when infidelity happens, it's not just the wayward that needs to work on the marriage but the betrayed partner as well. While contrition on her part should be readily apparent, forgiveness on your part (and a willingness to work on your role in the marriage) is part of the formula for reconciling, IMHO. It's not just going to be about her kissing your ass.

 

 

Agreed.

 

It took both you to get to this point and it will take both of you to digs yourselves out together.

 

Here is the crux of the situation - both of you realize that it will take each of you a lot of work and effort to make staying together work. Both of you have your hands on the ejection lever and ready to punch out at any moment.

 

But both of you are looking at the other trying to read if the other is going to pull the handle first. ....and each other are also looking towards the other to see if there is a ray of hope that the other person wants to save the marriage and is willing to do the work, before they decide if they will do the work required or not.

 

This is where counseling will prove to be valuable as this is where the counselor will peel back the layers and will be able to show you the signs of whether the other person is invested or not.

[DKT3]

Boy, how I don't miss those days.

 

In the end I divorced her. Sounds to me like she isn't doing enough or the right things that make you want to stay. That means you will soon hit your breaking point and divorce her.

 

My wife told me she felt like she was in control of the relationship so she didn't feel she had to do the right things. She had a timeline in mind and planned to follow it. She thought I would just accept it and move forward at her pace. For 8 months I looked for any reason to stay, then the next 6 months I looked for and set up a way out. Once she could see and feel that I was no longer engaged she changed her attitude.

 

Point being, like my wife your wife feels justified for having done what she did, and places the blame in your lap. If you continues on your current path you will see no change in her. You need to make some strong actions that she is clear on. I'm not saying you have to divorce, but she has to know and BELIEVE that you will take that step if she doesn't step up. As will you. Once you truly believe it, she will to. Trust me, that empowered me once I truly knew that divorce would be likely, as well a calm.

[DKT3]

BH and oldshirt are 100% correct.

 

We played our roles in the marriage getting to the point were infidelity is an option. However don't confuse that with her infidelity being your fault.

[Spectre]

BH and oldshirt are 100% correct.

 

We played our roles in the marriage getting to the point were infidelity is an option. However don't confuse that with her infidelity being your fault.

 

I'm sorry, but infidelity is NEVER an option. Or rather..infidelity is technically always an option. I don't care what you do or how you act, you can't do anything to suddenly make someone go "now I suddenly consider cheating".

 

That is on them and their own weakness..their inability to respect the vows they made, and their inability to not be selfish. If people have problems in a relationship and their solution is cheating then they lack all manner of respect and love for their partner.

 

That is exactly what I'm doing. Giving it a last chance. So far is not going well, but it has a little of hope.

My sexual desire is not less. Hers is. That is a big problem. I am a very sexual person (as if you couldn't notice yet...), and I can't have a lame sex life.

 

I just have to ask..why would you want to stay married to a woman who can't possibly love you? I'm honestly wondering..is whether or not your wife loves you not something important? Even if this woman never cheats again..she still cheated. She still did it for utterly bogus reasons, this guy valued her? No he didn't. He valued her vagina, nothing more.

 

Here is the thing: if she felt so undervalued then she should of left, not cheated. So again I ask..why do you want to settle for a woman who does not have any love for you? Don't you want to raise your kids in an environment where they have parents who love and respect each other..as opposed to having one parent who just doesn't give a sh*t and another who refuses to walk away even when it is obvious they should?

[regret143]

BH and oldshirt are 100% correct.

 

We played our roles in the marriage getting to the point were infidelity is an option. However don't confuse that with her infidelity being your fault.

 

Of course is my fault for opening that door...

 

 

I'm sorry, but infidelity is NEVER an option. Or rather..infidelity is technically always an option. I don't care what you do or how you act, you can't do anything to suddenly make someone go "now I suddenly consider cheating".

 

That is on them and their own weakness..their inability to respect the vows they made, and their inability to not be selfish. If people have problems in a relationship and their solution is cheating then they lack all manner of respect and love for their partner.

 

 

 

I just have to ask..why would you want to stay married to a woman who can't possibly love you? I'm honestly wondering..is whether or not your wife loves you not something important? Even if this woman never cheats again..she still cheated. She still did it for utterly bogus reasons, this guy valued her? No he didn't. He valued her vagina, nothing more.

 

Here is the thing: if she felt so undervalued then she should of left, not cheated. So again I ask..why do you want to settle for a woman who does not have any love for you? Don't you want to raise your kids in an environment where they have parents who love and respect each other..as opposed to having one parent who just doesn't give a sh*t and another who refuses to walk away even when it is obvious they should?

 

Spectre, if you read my posts carefully, you will notice that for me physical infidelity was never a big deal. My problem was her leaving the family to live with him.

And the guy did value her. He left his wife and was wanting to live with her. She didn't go, according to her, because she loves me. I just talk to her 20 minutes ago about this, and she said she decided to dump him when she felt valued by me again.

 

My big issue coming back to the marriage is I will be able to ever stop comparing myself to him, and tthe fact that I already had made up my mind that I hated her for living me, and I was already planning my life around her absence and it seemed very promising.

[HereNorThere]

There's nothing less alpha than allowing other men to sleep with your wife. That's about as beta male as it gets. A true alpha would bash another man's skull with a rock for even looking at his woman. How do you have expect your wife to have respect for you when you allow other men to sleep with her?

 

Sorry, but this isn't a case of a cheating wife. You can't shoot someone up with heroin everyday for a month and then get pissed when they become an addict.

 

There's no going back from here. Your words mean nothing and your actions have already shown that it is acceptable for her to do this. You can't just take it back now and expect her to take you seriously. I hope you learned a good lesson.

[Spectre]

Of course is my fault for opening that door...

 

No it's not! Your wife let you open that door. She could of made sure it never got opened, but she didn't. Seriously, people are making way too big an issue out of this being your idea. People try certain sexual things all the time they end up not enjoying. You thought you would and maybe for a bit? You did, and then it got to a point you did not. So you know what? A wife who truly loves and respects her husband would of stopped immediately once he told her he wanted it to stop. It doesn't matter if maybe she had grown to enjoy it, that should of been that and if keeping it up was that important? She could divorce you so she can go find someone else, but don't ever blame yourself for this, don't blame yourself for a sexual act your wife agreed to.

 

Spectre, if you read my posts carefully, you will notice that for me physical infidelity was never a big deal. My problem was her leaving the family to live with him.

 

It's not about the sex, it's about the betrayal. How is betrayal not a big deal? But yeah okay, even if it wasn't..as you said, she left the family to live with this creep. Why do you want a woman who does this?

 

And the guy did value her. He left his wife and was wanting to live with her. She didn't go, according to her, because she loves me. I just talk to her 20 minutes ago about this, and she said she decided to dump him when she felt valued by me again.

 

Dude, seriously?! Read what you just wrote. She decided to dump him because she felt valued by you again. How messed up is that? Why do you want to stay with such a horrible person? What happens next time she doesn't feel valued?

 

I don't know how she can say things like that to you and you not be utterly disgusted by her. Also, look how she played the other guy? He leaves his wife for her, but then she dumps him because she feels "valued" again. Let me tell you something: I assure you this woman does not love you. There is no way in hell she loves you.

 

My big issue coming back to the marriage is I will be able to ever stop comparing myself to him, and tthe fact that I already had made up my mind that I hated her for living me, and I was already planning my life around her absence and it seemed very promising.

 

So I don't even get why you are staying. Look at how she treats you, look at the things she says. You saw the prospect of life without her as VERY PROMISING. Doesn't that tell you something?

 

Here is the thing: your wife is a big girl. You might of asked her to do certain things for you, sexually, but the thing is? She agreed to them. She did not have to agree, she could of said "no, I'm not comfortable with that". She could of said "no, this would make me feel like you do not value me". But what did this woman do? No, she took you up on your request, got to have her sex..and THEN suddenly decides she have a problem with it? A problem whose only solution is apparently to cheat and leave her family to be with a creep?

 

Dude, you got played. She got to bang other dudes and then when she found one she had feelings for she played the "oh I suddenly do not feel valued" card. Please, I tell you what: this guy left his wife for her? Let him have her. It is no big loss.

 

How do you have expect your wife to have respect for you when you allow other men to sleep with her?

 

She could of said no.

 

Sorry, but this isn't a case of a cheating wife. You can't shoot someone up with heroin everyday for a month and then get pissed when they become an addict.

 

I'm sorry, but no..just, no. This is a case of a cheating wife. It was cheating the moment he told her to stop doing it. You say she became addicted to it? Okay, fine, but that still makes it cheating. Here is the thing: she could of told her husband no she would not do these things, but she didn't. When he told her to stop? That should of been the end of it. Sorry, it takes two to tango. This guy did not force his wife into anything, she could of said no and she didn't. The second she began to not feel valued should of been the moment she stopped it, but she did not. She solved that problem by jumping onto another dude, and then he leaves his wife for her and then suddenly she dumps him because she feels valued again.

 

It's a case of a wife who either decided to play the victim after she fell for one of the guys she was screwing..or a wife who did not have the guts to tell her husband she was not okay with sleeping with other men for him and that cowardice let to the situation to spiral out of control. Either way yeah it was cheating. Do I feel it was a good idea to even ask his wife to do those things? Nope, but *she agreed* to do them, and then agreed to stop, but did not.

 

You say you hope he learned a lesson, I hope so too, and I hope his wife did as well. Though seeing how she treats him? I'm guessing she hasn't.

Edited October 8, 2014 by Spectre

[regret143]

Today we will have our first MC appointment.

In my head, I was thinking, when I get there, I'll tell the whole story from the very beginning. My friend told me different: "Let her talk. As much as she can."

Girls know girls...

[regret143]

Another update:

Right after we decided to try again, as I wasnt sure abt it working or not, I kept swiping girls on tinder, just for fun. Ended up having a long talk to a lady my age, mexican (my wife is kinda racist), nothing sexual only very friendly. Then I suddenly stop this coinversation, bc I'm not interested in finding dates, nor I want to be tempted. "I am trying again" I reminded myself.

 

She got my phone and saw the whole thing.

 

She got her feelings reeeealy hurt.

 

In her mind, I'm the bad guy now. She is not being mean about it, but she is really hurt. The problem now is, I have no motivation to make up for my mistake, because comparing to her mistake, mine is microscopic. On her side she says "But we commit ourselves to try again" She is definitely not wrong.

 

Gimme your 2 cents...

[BetrayedH]

Today we will have our first MC appointment.

In my head, I was thinking, when I get there, I'll tell the whole story from the very beginning. My friend told me different: "Let her talk. As much as she can."

Girls know girls...

 

I agree with your friend. Let your wayward do as much of the talking as possible. She should be taking the initiative to fix this. This doesn't mean to stay silent but from my experience with a WW that was virtually silent in MC, it was pointless. Your wife broke the rules and broke the relationship. She can take some steps to fix it.

[BetrayedH]

Another update:

Right after we decided to try again, as I wasnt sure abt it working or not, I kept swiping girls on tinder, just for fun. Ended up having a long talk to a lady my age, mexican (my wife is kinda racist), nothing sexual only very friendly. Then I suddenly stop this coinversation, bc I'm not interested in finding dates, nor I want to be tempted. "I am trying again" I reminded myself.

 

She got my phone and saw the whole thing.

 

She got her feelings reeeealy hurt.

 

In her mind, I'm the bad guy now. She is not being mean about it, but she is really hurt. The problem now is, I have no motivation to make up for my mistake, because comparing to her mistake, mine is microscopic. On her side she says "But we commit ourselves to try again" She is definitely not wrong.

 

Gimme your 2 cents...

 

You had already decided to work on reconciling with her and you were on tinder, huh? So much for working on it. You just threw gas on the fire, dude.

[thummper]

You had already decided to work on reconciling with her and you were on tinder, huh? So much for working on it. You just threw gas on the fire, dude.

 

Yep. Buddy, you just done a major league OOOOOOOOPS!!!!!!!!!!!! Why in the world would you do something so completely clueless if you're trying to reconcile with your wife?

[oldshirt]

Look at my earlier post where I said both of you have your hands on the ejection handles and each of you are watching the other to determine if you are going to punch out or not.

 

Now use that image in your head and think of how everything you do looks to her while she's trying to determine whether to pull the handle or not.

[Spectre]

Another update:

Right after we decided to try again, as I wasnt sure abt it working or not, I kept swiping girls on tinder, just for fun. Ended up having a long talk to a lady my age, mexican (my wife is kinda racist), nothing sexual only very friendly. Then I suddenly stop this coinversation, bc I'm not interested in finding dates, nor I want to be tempted. "I am trying again" I reminded myself.

 

She got my phone and saw the whole thing.

 

She got her feelings reeeealy hurt.

 

In her mind, I'm the bad guy now. She is not being mean about it, but she is really hurt. The problem now is, I have no motivation to make up for my mistake, because comparing to her mistake, mine is microscopic. On her side she says "But we commit ourselves to try again" She is definitely not wrong.

 

Gimme your 2 cents...

 

First of all, she can talk about committing and she might be right, but keep in mind SHE also made a commitment to you before and she shattered it to pieces. I am not saying it gives you the right to do what you did, merely saying those who live in glass houses do not throw stones. How can she expect you to get over her horrible treatment of you..if she can't get over something much much less horrible? You honestly should have no motivation to make up for it.

 

Also dude, think about this: I think this is another sign you deep down do not want to be in this relationship. I think your subconscious is looking for ANY way to pull the plug. That is why you are suddenly leaving stuff on your phone she just happens to find that makes you look bad. I don't think you should ignore this.

 

You have to truly ask yourself why you want to be with this woman still? Look, I get that you don't care about the sex, okay fine. That is weird to me, but then you did ask her to cuckold you so what do I know? But here is the thing: she still betrayed you and your kids, not only via the cheating(whether you care or not) but by leaving.

 

If you don't care about the sex fine, but what about love? Why do you want to be with someone who doesn't love you? The fact that you are more bothered she left to live with this guy makes me wonder whether you want a wife or you just want her to be around to help with the kids and stuff?

 

Think about the type of person your wife is: people do not usually leave their spouse for another woman all willy nilly. Something tells me your wife would of been down to stay with this guy, maybe gave him the impression he should leave his wife. Then she drops him when her ex makes her feel more valued. Think about what that says about her overall as a person. I just don't get why you'd want her in your life, the only way it makes sense is if you really want a mother to your children more then an actual wife. Otherwise you still have time to actually meet a decent woman, and this time maybe stay away from any type of sex that doesn't strictly just involve you and your partner.

 

If nothing else, I ask you to see your choice to go on tinder in the first place..and to leave it on your phone so this woman can see it..and ALSO the fact you have zero motivation to make it right..you should see how all that is a sign that your heart is not in this. Someone else asked why you'd do something so clueless, thing is you don't seem clueless at all..so keep that in mind. Also keep in mind I do not blame you for not feeling motivated to make what you did right, however I can also say if your heart was legitimately into wanting this woman back that you would want to make it right either way. I think parts of you are trying to tell you that your current path is the wrong one.

Edited October 10, 2014 by Spectre

[regret143]

There was a post here, someone deleted...

 

Anyways,

 

We went to counseling last Friday. Did not go very well. I talked too much. Told the counselor things I should have let her decide to share. She got really upset.

[oldshirt]

There was a post here, someone deleted...

 

Anyways,

 

We went to counseling last Friday. Did not go very well. I talked too much. Told the counselor things I should have let her decide to share. She got really upset.

 

You mean things she wanted kept quiet so she would come out smelling like a rose??????