Janesays Posted October 6, 2014 Posted October 6, 2014 Oh, good lord. Every single thing he mentions doing is something I TOLD him to do...and that includes everything from writing the NC to posting here. Kinda takes some of the sincerity out of the actions when they don't come unprompted....instead they only happened when forced. He has not done ONE SINGLE THING that I didn't MAKE him do...and boy oh boy did he drag his feet doing even that. Quote from him in reference to the NC letters, "You actually want me to send these?" As for my gifts? Cheap grocery store flowers. But to be fair, he did buy me slightly more expensive flowers when I made note that a $10 gift is a poor showing of remorse. And let's talk about the emotional support my oh so contrite hubby is dishing out. Let me quote him from last night, "I don't regret doing what I did...I just regret that it hurt you." How's that for emotional support and honesty? I'm a lucky girl, huh?!
BetrayedH Posted October 6, 2014 Posted October 6, 2014 I agree wholeheartedly, she has been amazing to me and she didn't deserve to be treated this way. No one does. She's also come to realize that there were several other areas of our marriage that weren't living up to her expectations but that she had been ignoring these. We've decided to separate because for every one good thing I do or say it seems that I say two other things that hurt. The hurt never ends when I'm around and that's not what I want for her. You asked about my actions? I'm getting into some IC to try to take care of my own issues. I've given up porn (for the right reasons this time, as it has really messed up a lot of my views on relationships). I'm reading books on dealing and healing as well as posting/reading here and on other forums to try to get a clearer picture. I've sent NC letters to the OW and to a "friend" that knew about the affair. I've been completely honest with about everything that happened, even when it hurts chances for R because it's what she deserves. For her I've given her gifts, written apologies, fixed a big problem that had at work and tried to be there for her emotionally (failing at times). I know it's not enough. I don't know if there could ever be enough. You've listed a lot of good things. And yep, words are a dangerous thing even when backed up by honesty and good intention (which they must be). It's most certainly a rollercoaster for her. The first few weeks after Dday are atrocious. I lost 25 lbs in the first month (nearly 40 lbs altogether) and my sleep was affected for nearly a year. Conventional wisdom puts recovery at 2-5 years. I scoffed at that at first and I was wrong. My point is, you're going to have to do whatever it is she needs to heal (short of abuse and your own dealbreakers) and do it for a long time to come if you're truly remorseful and want to restore your marriage. That may mean that she needs to separate from you for a while to remove the daily interaction and to get clarity. You really need to think about whether that's what you want and go into it knowing that that's what you're signing up for. So many waywards initially make the effort but it's almost all about damage control and fear - fear of exposure to friends and family, impacts to your life and lifestyle, children (who sadly shouldn't be considered in a decision to reconcile vs divorce), your career or reputation, your residence, and so forth. It really has to be ALL about your love for your wife, backed up by true remorse and a crazy amount of patience. Do you have all of that? What are your reasons for wanting to reconcile? And even if you do things perfectly, you may have to accept that this was simply a dealbreaker for Jane and give her an amiable divorce and settlement. It's just plain not going to be easy but if you're going to try to reconcile, you're going to have to be in with both feet and keep doing it while she has one foot out the door for a long time. This is the natural consequence. What say you? 1
Bittersweetie Posted October 6, 2014 Posted October 6, 2014 My point is, you're going to have to do whatever it is she needs to heal (short of abuse and your own dealbreakers) and do it for a long time to come if you're truly remorseful and want to restore your marriage. Looking...fWW here that has reconciled. I have to agree with BH here. Your words mean nothing right now. Your integrity is in the toilet. The only way you can show anything to Jane is through your actions. If she asks to send NC letters, you say YES. If she asks you to text her when you get somewhere, you say OF COURSE. If she wants some space, you say OKAY and work on yourself. You have no leg to stand on at this point. And if you truly said "I don't regret doing what I did...I just regret that it hurt you," then you need to take a long look in the mirror and ask yourself WHY you said that. Because that statement is a huge red flag, to me, that you don't fully understand the ramifications of what you've done. Like I said, my H and I are still together. It took a lot of work on me, and on my marriage to get here. My H wasn't sure for a long time whether he wanted to stay with me or not. I understood his hesitation and decided to work on myself anyway because I no longer wanted to be a person who made hurtful choices like I did. Who do you want to be? 3
BetrayedH Posted October 6, 2014 Posted October 6, 2014 The only way you can show anything to Jane is through your actions. If she asks to send NC letters, you say YES. If she asks you to text her when you get somewhere, you say OF COURSE. If she wants some space, you say OKAY and work on yourself. Yep. The one thing I might add here is how helpful it is to be PROACTIVE. You can already see how limited an effect your actions have when they have to be prompted by your BW. Dig and dig to find out what actions you can take to do the right things here and take ownership of them. If you read that therapy is a smart idea, you schedule the appointments yourself - don't ask her if you should or leave it to her to research and schedule. Own as much of the recovery as humanly possible. 1
Clay Posted October 6, 2014 Posted October 6, 2014 Oh, good lord. Every single thing he mentions doing is something I TOLD him to do...and that includes everything from writing the NC to posting here. Kinda takes some of the sincerity out of the actions when they don't come unprompted....instead they only happened when forced. He has not done ONE SINGLE THING that I didn't MAKE him do...and boy oh boy did he drag his feet doing even that. Quote from him in reference to the NC letters, "You actually want me to send these?" As for my gifts? Cheap grocery store flowers. But to be fair, he did buy me slightly more expensive flowers when I made note that a $10 gift is a poor showing of remorse. And let's talk about the emotional support my oh so contrite hubby is dishing out. Let me quote him from last night, "I don't regret doing what I did...I just regret that it hurt you." How's that for emotional support and honesty? I'm a lucky girl, huh?! Just Run and don't look back. You deserve far better. I am sorry you are going through this but its never worth it to stay with a cheater. 3
BetrayedH Posted October 6, 2014 Posted October 6, 2014 Let me quote him from last night, "I don't regret doing what I did...I just regret that it hurt you." @looking, perhaps you should regret doing what you did. Even if we take Jane's hurt out of the equation, you compromised your integrity, honesty, and fidelity all for the sake of what, the ego stroke provided by a woman desiring you? Are a few sexcapades worth the new label of having no character? Meant gently, having an affair is a sign of weakness. Even if you had relationship issues, you had other logical, ethical, moral, and non-destructive choices available to you. But instead, you repeatedly chose a path of cowardice. You compromised yourself for an ego stroke. I would think you would regret such a choice, that you weren't personally strong enough to make a different choice. Ironically, it's not the first time I've heard someone make such a statement. The problem is that you don't get to separate out the actions from the consequences. They are inextricably linked. It's like trying to say that you don't regret a night of heavy drinking; you just regret the hangover. You may want to compartmentalize but the reality is that you either have remorse over the while ordeal or you don't. It was either worth it or it wasn't. 2
Mr. Lucky Posted October 6, 2014 Posted October 6, 2014 Oh, good lord. Every single thing he mentions doing is something I TOLD him to do...and that includes everything from writing the NC to posting here. Kinda takes some of the sincerity out of the actions when they don't come unprompted....instead they only happened when forced. He has not done ONE SINGLE THING that I didn't MAKE him do...and boy oh boy did he drag his feet doing even that. Quote from him in reference to the NC letters, "You actually want me to send these?" As for my gifts? Cheap grocery store flowers. But to be fair, he did buy me slightly more expensive flowers when I made note that a $10 gift is a poor showing of remorse. And let's talk about the emotional support my oh so contrite hubby is dishing out. Let me quote him from last night, "I don't regret doing what I did...I just regret that it hurt you." How's that for emotional support and honesty? I'm a lucky girl, huh?! Your brutally honest feedback reinforces why I'm so cynical about wailing, gnashing of teeth and laments from WS in general. If remorse had any value, it would manifest itself as trepidation or guilt preventing the betrayal. "I have a lot at stake here" is much more meaningful in advance, fairly worthless after the fact... Mr. Lucky
Purepony Posted October 6, 2014 Posted October 6, 2014 I'm just wondering if there was no baby would Jane still stay?
Janesays Posted October 6, 2014 Posted October 6, 2014 I'm just wondering if there was no baby would Jane still stay? That's simple. No. Never in a million years. 5
freestyle Posted October 6, 2014 Posted October 6, 2014 Saying, "I don't regret my actions, but I do regret that you were hurt by my actions" is a fauxpology. It's like saying , "I don't regret that I stabbed you in the back, but I do regret that you're bleeding." OR "I don't regret that I punched you, but I do regret that you're bruised..." Fauxpologies are nothing more than a sneaky, underhanded way to lay the burden back onto the injured party. They indicate zero regard, or remorse for the feelings of the injured party. They demonstrate nothing but insincerity. And frankly they smack of: "hurry up & forgive me already, because I don't like being inconvenienced by these yucky, pesky guilt feelings." It shows that the offending party is still coming from a place of self-absorption, instead of mutual respect. (let alone , authentic concern) Fauxpologies that blame-shift back onto the injured party will always backfire----instead of ameliorating the damage done by one's actions, they compound the injury. If you're not truly sorry for your actions, don't insult & hurt the injured party further, by trying to manipulate them with a fauxpology. 7
peaksandvalleys Posted October 6, 2014 Posted October 6, 2014 Oh, good lord. Every single thing he mentions doing is something I TOLD him to do...and that includes everything from writing the NC to posting here. Kinda takes some of the sincerity out of the actions when they don't come unprompted....instead they only happened when forced. He has not done ONE SINGLE THING that I didn't MAKE him do...and boy oh boy did he drag his feet doing even that. Quote from him in reference to the NC letters, "You actually want me to send these?" As for my gifts? Cheap grocery store flowers. But to be fair, he did buy me slightly more expensive flowers when I made note that a $10 gift is a poor showing of remorse. And let's talk about the emotional support my oh so contrite hubby is dishing out. Let me quote him from last night, "I don't regret doing what I did...I just regret that it hurt you." How's that for emotional support and honesty? I'm a lucky girl, huh?! Jane, I am so sorry you have to deal with this. I feel as if I am living your life. The choices I would have made regarding marriage, children, business and the STD.
peaksandvalleys Posted October 6, 2014 Posted October 6, 2014 I agree wholeheartedly, she has been amazing to me and she didn't deserve to be treated this way. No one does. She's also come to realize that there were several other areas of our marriage that weren't living up to her expectations but that she had been ignoring these. We've decided to separate because for every one good thing I do or say it seems that I say two other things that hurt. The hurt never ends when I'm around and that's not what I want for her. You asked about my actions? I'm getting into some IC to try to take care of my own issues. I've given up porn (for the right reasons this time, as it has really messed up a lot of my views on relationships). I'm reading books on dealing and healing as well as posting/reading here and on other forums to try to get a clearer picture. I've sent NC letters to the OW and to a "friend" that knew about the affair. I've been completely honest with about everything that happened, even when it hurts chances for R because it's what she deserves. For her I've given her gifts, written apologies, fixed a big problem that had at work and tried to be there for her emotionally (failing at times). I know it's not enough. I don't know if there could ever be enough. I don't know her. For me there would never be enough to change my inability to trust you. That is why I divorced. He took so many years from me. If she is willing to forgive you, you should consider yourself one lucky human being. You spoke of your child being motivation enough for you to change. Why wasn't child motivation enough for you NOT to need to change? I suspect you are just remorseful that you got busted but I am looking through the lens of being lied to as well. 1
HereNorThere Posted October 6, 2014 Posted October 6, 2014 (edited) There's obviously a huge difference in maturity between the OP and his wife. She knew this when she found out he was a 32 year old virgin, but decided to ignore the red flag and give him the benefit of the doubt. I'm sure he is remorseful, but unfortunately it's really too late for any that. The overwhelming differences in life experience was bound to come up soon or later, but I doubt anyone could have guessed something this drastic would happen. The truth is that there is no way this can be fixed. OP knew that cheating would be a deal breaker, but he's got the mind of a teenager and that the age he is now, I really doubt he'll ever be able to catch up with his (ex)wife. Edited October 6, 2014 by HereNorThere
Author lookingforhope79 Posted October 7, 2014 Author Posted October 7, 2014 There's obviously a huge difference in maturity between the OP and his wife. She knew this when she found out he was a 32 year old virgin, but decided to ignore the red flag and give him the benefit of the doubt. I'm sure he is remorseful, but unfortunately it's really too late for any that. The overwhelming differences in life experience was bound to come up soon or later, but I doubt anyone could have guessed something this drastic would happen. The truth is that there is no way this can be fixed. OP knew that cheating would be a deal breaker, but he's got the mind of a teenager and that the age he is now, I really doubt he'll ever be able to catch up with his (ex)wife. I would agree that I was/am greatly behind the curve when it comes to emotional maturity when we first met. I do feel that I'm leaps ahead of where I was just a couple of years ago though. Living with Jane and having our baby has opened my eyes to so many new things and made me realize what really matters.
Author lookingforhope79 Posted October 7, 2014 Author Posted October 7, 2014 I don't know her. For me there would never be enough to change my inability to trust you. That is why I divorced. He took so many years from me. If she is willing to forgive you, you should consider yourself one lucky human being. You spoke of your child being motivation enough for you to change. Why wasn't child motivation enough for you NOT to need to change? I suspect you are just remorseful that you got busted but I am looking through the lens of being lied to as well. What I regret is that there was anything to get busted for in the first place . If I had it to do over again I'd walk far far away from everyone involved.
No Limit Posted October 7, 2014 Posted October 7, 2014 How's that for emotional support and honesty? I'm a lucky girl, huh?! Sounds more like "I'll do whatever you do, just PLEASE get back to normal again, it's getting on my nerves".
Janesays Posted October 7, 2014 Posted October 7, 2014 You've listed a lot of good things. And yep, words are a dangerous thing even when backed up by honesty and good intention (which they must be). It's most certainly a rollercoaster for her. The first few weeks after Dday are atrocious. I lost 25 lbs in the first month (nearly 40 lbs altogether) and my sleep was affected for nearly a year. Conventional wisdom puts recovery at 2-5 years. I scoffed at that at first and I was wrong. My point is, you're going to have to do whatever it is she needs to heal (short of abuse and your own dealbreakers) and do it for a long time to come if you're truly remorseful and want to restore your marriage. That may mean that she needs to separate from you for a while to remove the daily interaction and to get clarity. You really need to think about whether that's what you want and go into it knowing that that's what you're signing up for. So many waywards initially make the effort but it's almost all about damage control and fear - fear of exposure to friends and family, impacts to your life and lifestyle, children (who sadly shouldn't be considered in a decision to reconcile vs divorce), your career or reputation, your residence, and so forth. It really has to be ALL about your love for your wife, backed up by true remorse and a crazy amount of patience. Do you have all of that? What are your reasons for wanting to reconcile? And even if you do things perfectly, you may have to accept that this was simply a dealbreaker for Jane and give her an amiable divorce and settlement. It's just plain not going to be easy but if you're going to try to reconcile, you're going to have to be in with both feet and keep doing it while she has one foot out the door for a long time. This is the natural consequence. What say you? I actually thought this post was pretty thoughtful and insightful and it asked some very valid questions. Pity it was pretty much ignored. 1
ComingInHot Posted October 7, 2014 Posted October 7, 2014 Looking, I stand by my first post in that You have A LOT of work to do and no, you can never 'make up' for cheating, giving your wife the OW's std. Does not matter what was wrong in the marriage. You Cheated. Look at her. Look at her until you literally feel what You have done. Then maybe you have a shot. Right now I still don't think you get it.*
Author lookingforhope79 Posted October 7, 2014 Author Posted October 7, 2014 Yep. The one thing I might add here is how helpful it is to be PROACTIVE. You can already see how limited an effect your actions have when they have to be prompted by your BW. Dig and dig to find out what actions you can take to do the right things here and take ownership of them. If you read that therapy is a smart idea, you schedule the appointments yourself - don't ask her if you should or leave it to her to research and schedule. Own as much of the recovery as humanly possible. I can see the value here and this is where I'm having problems. I just don't know what actions to take in this sort of situation... That was the original point of this post. There have been a few good ideas that I've followed up on I am very appreciative to those who have suggested things but I still need help. I understand that ideas from others don't carry the same weight as original ones (especially with her reading along) but I'm at a loss here
No Limit Posted October 7, 2014 Posted October 7, 2014 Jane, may I ask when you were infected? If it was during the pregnancy your baby might be infected too (depending on what type of STD it is that could have severe consequences). Pretty obvious thing to do, but please, see a doctor.
Author lookingforhope79 Posted October 7, 2014 Author Posted October 7, 2014 You've listed a lot of good things. And yep, words are a dangerous thing even when backed up by honesty and good intention (which they must be). It's most certainly a rollercoaster for her. The first few weeks after Dday are atrocious. I lost 25 lbs in the first month (nearly 40 lbs altogether) and my sleep was affected for nearly a year. Conventional wisdom puts recovery at 2-5 years. I scoffed at that at first and I was wrong. My point is, you're going to have to do whatever it is she needs to heal (short of abuse and your own dealbreakers) and do it for a long time to come if you're truly remorseful and want to restore your marriage. That may mean that she needs to separate from you for a while to remove the daily interaction and to get clarity. You really need to think about whether that's what you want and go into it knowing that that's what you're signing up for. So many waywards initially make the effort but it's almost all about damage control and fear - fear of exposure to friends and family, impacts to your life and lifestyle, children (who sadly shouldn't be considered in a decision to reconcile vs divorce), your career or reputation, your residence, and so forth. It really has to be ALL about your love for your wife, backed up by true remorse and a crazy amount of patience. Do you have all of that? What are your reasons for wanting to reconcile? And even if you do things perfectly, you may have to accept that this was simply a dealbreaker for Jane and give her an amiable divorce and settlement. It's just plain not going to be easy but if you're going to try to reconcile, you're going to have to be in with both feet and keep doing it while she has one foot out the door for a long time. This is the natural consequence. What say you? At this point it's not about me. I want her to have that great life that she thought we had. That secure, loving future is what she's always wanted and I'm willing to do whatever it takes for however long it takes to see that happen. I realize that no matter what I do she may decide to move on, be that two weeks or two years from now. It's her decision to make and I'll respect that. We've already agreed in principle to all aspects of a divorce if it were to happen so it's not like I'm blind to what could happen here. I'll do whatever she needs to consider staying together, even if that means living with the revenge affair that she talks about having. I've always said/thought that I would be able to get past it if she cheated (long before I did) and especially now what kind of position would I be in to deny her another chance when asking for one myself? I waited 30 years to find someone as special as her, I can get through some bad ones if it means another 30 good ones on the other side with her.
Author lookingforhope79 Posted October 7, 2014 Author Posted October 7, 2014 Jane, may I ask when you were infected? If it was during the pregnancy your baby might be infected too (depending on what type of STD it is that could have severe consequences). Pretty obvious thing to do, but please, see a doctor. Thanks for your concern - all is well there. Her diagnosis of an std was about a month ago. She was tested during pregnancy and everything was fine. The doctors assured me that the std in question would cause serious problems within a couple of months even without symptoms if not treated. The baby is 6mos now and my last contact that could have resulted in an std was almost 3 years ago. Since before getting engaged (about a year before the pregnancy) I have been faithful, though not honest or trustworthy, and tested negative for any std after she was diagnosed. She requested a second test for herself which came back negative though medicine she was taking for another condition could have possibly cleared things up in the couple of days between tests. I personally believe that the original diagnosis was an error.
No Limit Posted October 8, 2014 Posted October 8, 2014 Thanks for your concern - all is well there. Her diagnosis of an std was about a month ago. She was tested during pregnancy and everything was fine. The doctors assured me that the std in question would cause serious problems within a couple of months even without symptoms if not treated. The baby is 6mos now and my last contact that could have resulted in an std was almost 3 years ago. Since before getting engaged (about a year before the pregnancy) I have been faithful, though not honest or trustworthy, and tested negative for any std after she was diagnosed. She requested a second test for herself which came back negative though medicine she was taking for another condition could have possibly cleared things up in the couple of days between tests. I personally believe that the original diagnosis was an error. Thank God! Guess I'm just a bit jumpy at these things after reading several reports in which the babies died thanks to a thoughtless parent.
HereNorThere Posted October 9, 2014 Posted October 9, 2014 (edited) OP definitely deserved to get busted, but the scientist in me knows we aren't getting the real story on that "std." Sorry, but medically, a bacterial infection of that sort doesn't work that way. If OP's infidelity was that long ago, if OP tested negative, if BS tested negative during the pregnancy.... c'mon. Sorry, hate it or love it, but someone, somewhere is leaving something, mistaken or lying. Edited October 9, 2014 by HereNorThere 3
No Limit Posted October 9, 2014 Posted October 9, 2014 Sorry, hate it or love it, but someone, somewhere is leaving something, mistaken or lying. Well, duh. Let me quote him from last night, "I don't regret doing what I did...I just regret that it hurt you." What I regret is that there was anything to get busted for in the first place . This thread has had two rails from the very beginning. Now let's say even if OP was the type of guy that really just wants to cheat over and over/sex addict or whatever, he couldn't just type in here "people bugger off, I do my own thing". At least not without all of this turning into a hater-commentary-frenzy.
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