"Needing" a relationship?

[notmakingsense]

I had a very enlightening conversation with my GF yesterday. We have been in an on-again/off-again relationship for about 15 months now. She was only 1.5 years out of a 17 year marriage (to a cheater) when we met, so our ride was a rocky one because of her tender emotions -- especially as they relate to being on her own and relationships.

 

We had a very predictable and cyclical pattern of getting extremely close (sexually and emotionally), followed by her withdrawing due to phobia of relationships, then my getting extremely insecure -- and attempting to control the situation and bring her back to me.

 

Over the months, the periods of closeness have intensified, and her periods of withdrawal have shortened. This is a great thing, but most recently, I have started to notice a new-found desire (on her part) to try to reduce the intimacy -- so we'd go out on more dates which didn't end with one of us sleeping at each-other's house.

 

Things came to a head last Thursday when she decided to spend time with her (older -- in her 50's) best friend and help her get back into dating by going with her to a singles cooking class. I got all wierd about it -- not only because she needed to go as a "single", but because I was wondering why she didn't want to spend time with me after what was a long period of time.

 

To make matters worse, I started to believe that she really wanted to start dating other people, and I wrote her an e-mail basically venting my frustration (not in a mean way, but it did make some false accusations like her "hiding" her true intentions).

 

Anyway, we went out yesterday and had a very good conversation about it. She explained to me that she was learning, through therapy and reading, that she no longer feels that she needs to be in a relationship to be happy. She thinks relationships are great, she wants one, but that she is learning to be happy as a person on her own. Part of this is trying to take a more laid-back approach to our relationship, because when things get intense, I tend to raise my expectations of keeping things intense -- and that is still a bit much for her at this point.

 

She feels that I need relationships too much, and I get too needy/clingy when I feel that things aren't progressing (or maintaining) at a heightened level. She wishes I could be more laid back -- and this is the reason why she is much more cautious about letting things get intense between us.

 

That was a very long introduction, but I would like to hear people's thoughts about their "need" to be in a relationship, and how that has affected the very relationships that they are trying to stay in. How much danger do you think I'm in of losing this relationship? Our last date, although we didn't have sex, ended with verbalizations of love and plenty of kissing.

 

I have read many sources that talk about how a person needs to be happy with themselves before they should be in a committed relationship -- and I guess that this is really talking about the same thing. Well, then, if that is true -- how did those of you who learned this lesson do so? It is hard for me, because of my job and kids (from a failed marriage) I don't have much time for lots of activities and friends -- and when I'm not in a relationship I feel very lonely and even helpless.

 

Any thoughts would be appreciated. Thanks.

[Sckott]

This is very tough because you DO have some intimacy going on, just nothing on the terms you feel comfortable with.

 

I too miss being in a relationship, something intimate, fun, involved. Something that has more meaning than a date and a hug, but since I'm recently out on my own (no kids or other baggae either) I feel up and down.

 

I would suggest maybe popping into theropy with her. Yes, none of us NEED a relationship, but I feel good company, love and healthy emotional conquests are what are IN us. Find out where she really is.

 

Also, make a serious vow to yourself that if what you NEED isn't with her, you will have to make a decision of where to put your emotional investment. It's a VERY important thing to think about. It MAY or MAY NOT be with her.

[The_Fool]

I don't know how much I can help, but I can sympathize with her. I wasn't married nearly as long as she was; just four years. My ex-wife and I were together for four years before that. I went through a similar thing as your girlfriend in the first year and a half after my ex- and I first got separated.

 

She might think she knows what she's feeling or what she wants, but her actions are mainly driven by instinct. It'll be tough for her to change that, especially if she feels that there's any "pressure". Even if you don't think you're pressuring her, I know that when I went through this I was totally incapable of thinking of someone else's feelings. I had my own to get back in order, and any time I even thought that I had to think about someone else's feelings, I felt an ungodly amount of pressure--just the thing that I was trying to escape from in the first place.

 

If you want to be with her, try to be understanding. Let her drive. She needs room to stretch out a bit; to spread her wings, so-to-speak. It'll be tough. It might even mean the end of the relationship--with me, it did, but the girl I was with is now my closest friend. But it could also deepend and better the relationship.

[notmakingsense]

Thanks for your replies!

 

Fool: I agree with you, I need to let her drive. You were uncanningly accurate about her, and her reaction to whenever she felt pressured. My insecurity and need to keep things going were having the opposite affect! I hope it doesn't mean the end of the relationship. I'm curious, was it because the girl you were with had no more patience to deal with the ups and downs, or did you call it off because you felt too pressured?

 

Sckott: I know what you mean about wanting something intimate, fun, and involved. My issue was that I tend to define my whole sense of worth around whether or not I can make this thing work, and as a result, I get Sooooo insecure and wrapped up in the situation! My GF and I must have something incredibly strong, because I'm sure this would have ripped us apart long ago.

 

Now I need to figure out what to do. I like Sckott's idea of therapy, but I'm not sure I want to go the couple's route, as this (in of itself) may apply pressure on her -- as in, we are in couple's therapy "to make it work --- or else".

 

Has anyone out there had the experience of making the relationship better because you let go? This is the sense of what I am hoping will happen.

[The_Fool]

Originally posted by notmakingsense

Fool: I agree with you, I need to let her drive. You were uncanningly accurate about her, and her reaction to whenever she felt pressured. My insecurity and need to keep things going were having the opposite affect! I hope it doesn't mean the end of the relationship. I'm curious, was it because the girl you were with had no more patience to deal with the ups and downs, or did you call it off because you felt too pressured?

 

There as a bit more to it with me, since she and I just weren't right for each other. I would've called it off anyways, but the pressure I was feeling made me deal with the situation very, very badly. I'm ashamed of how I handled it. It's now two years later, though, and the two of us are best friends.

 

I know this'll sound like one of those horribly cheese, cliche lines, but focus on being a friend for her first and foremost. Whether she realizes it or not, that's what she needs. I won't lie: if you choose to stick with it, you're in for a long haul. I hope it doesn't mean the end of your relationship, either, but if you can stick it out--whether or not you end up being "together"--you'll probably end up with a very deep and rich relationship with her.

 

My best friend and I, even though we're no longer a couple, have a deeper and better relationship than I had with my wife. Despite the pain we both went through to get here, neither of us would trade our friendship for the world.

[notmakingsense]

Thanks -- I think you are right. The biggest problem I have with that strategy are my own issues. When she steps back, my mind tends to wander and focus on whether or not she's really in to me, and I try to read too much into it. It doesn't help that I've completely fallen for her, and she's very good looking and attracks lots of male attention -- so somehow this has really built up the value of holding on to her.

 

What I need help with is an ability to focus on my own life -- outside of this relationship with her -- I just so much NOT want to turn into just her best friend.... see? there I go again... I'm starting to obsess....

[The_Fool]

If I were in your shoes, I don't think I'd be able to handle it. I'm pretty sure I'd be obsessing the same way, even though I'd know how terrible it'd be for the relationship.

 

You're not in an easy place, my friend.

 

This might just be one of those things where it's easier to learn the hard way, and hope that everything still turns out all right in the end. I'll do what I can to help, but I don't think that there's much that I can do other than share my own experiences with you.

[notmakingsense]

I find it really intriguing that you went through so much pain, yet came out of it with a very deep and rich friendship. I'd like to find out more about that, but it sounds that you both realize that you weren't the right match.

 

Where I stand now, I do think I'm her right match (and I'm a reasonably perceptive and mature person), and as a result, I can't even imagine being just her friend because I have such a love and sexual attraction for her.

 

If I just completely let go, I'm wondering if I could ever get over the hurt of not being "the one" for her?

 

I don't even know if I should be obsessing as much as I do -- but just the fact that she's recently content to just date (really fun dates mind you!) and not be sexually intimate afterwards really is bothering me..... I know she's trying to protect herself, but I just can't help but feeling that if the "right guy" came along right now, that I'd be done for good.

 

The new male wizdom out there would dictate that I not become just a friend, but to walk when things go in that direction. She either comes around or not. Can you imagine the pain from hanging in there with high-hopes as a friend only to discover that friends is all you've become? That takes a strong man. Maybe you are right, I should consider learning the hard way -- but what does that mean exactly?

[Sckott]

It's sounds like, more and more, you both aren't right for each other. Things get friendly and warm, but there's nothing magical happening. To boot, she's not giving you what you want and ultimately it sounds like she's not 100% into you, maybe not even 50%.

 

Some communication may help at this point, but also consider the problems she's having. I dated and then lived with someone with clinical depression. Things were GREAT for a while and then not only did I see a horrible drastic change, but also the very people she went to see had to re-introduce me to her very problems and why the relationship wasn't getting any better.

 

Like her or love her, but there's too many negatives going on. Verbal, emotional and physical intimacy is what you need, if even in short but healthy doses. I can relate.

 

And it's VERY true. Someone has to be emotionally healthy in order to give and recieve love and keep it that way. Beware!!

[notmakingsense]

Alright, so now what?

 

I've thought of forcing the issue via conversation -- but my last experience with this was to learn that, no, she really was in to me, and my very act of intensity was only serving to drive her away. If I had just "gone with the flow," things would have naturally picked up again.

 

In our last conversation with each-other, the subject of "having faith" in the situation came up. I told her that it would be hard, but that I could have faith -- as long as I could trust that needing a more laid-back approach was all she needed.

 

I didn't just come out and ask: "So, do you just see me just as a friend now?" Nor did I talk about my need for some more consistency in our emotional and physical intimacy.

 

I don't have any really close guy friends, but here on LS and other sources, I have been told that "actions speak louder than words." And the fact that she is putting a bit more distance than normal between us should be taken at face value in spite of her words.

 

Ok, back to my question: Now what? Do I force the issue in a conversation? Do I just lay back to see if the distance increases?

[ReluctantRomeo]

Hmmm, I've been through this one. The first sign of trouble with ReluctantJuliette was that she started to worry that I was "clingy". Ironically, up until then she had been the clingy one.

 

Here's what I should have done immediately and what I think you should do. Back off. Don't be explicit about it, don't have a relational conversation about it (since this makes things way more intense). Just do it. Get on with other things in your life, widen your circle of interests.

 

I can't say that this is a good sign though. When a woman is into a man, she usually wants more time than he is prepared to give. The change suggests that, at the least, she is reassessing you.

 

LucreziaBorgia has some very good posts on this kind of thing...

[notmakingsense]

Thanks Reluctant

 

That's what I've been trying to do for the last day or so. If I can just get past my own psycho-demon over-analysis feelings (towards myself), I may be able to pull it off. My problem is that I just get so obsessive about the situation! Heck, I'm at work right now, and spending more time on LS than I am at my (very busy!) job.

 

Thank god for LS, and the tolerance of the community to let people obsess.

 

I know, I know -- get more of a life. Make friends, find activities, etc. so that I don't place sooo much energy and self-worth on getting this relationship -- but damn I'm crazy for this woman!

[ReluctantRomeo]

Originally posted by notmakingsense

My problem is that I just get so obsessive about the situation! Heck, I'm at work right now, and spending more time on LS than I am at my (very busy!) job.

 

... but damn I'm crazy for this woman!

 

 

I've been there too. I understand totally - there was a period of a couple of weeks where my subordinates were carrying me at work and my friends in my private life and obligations. All I did was think of Juliette