Honesty is NOT always the best policy

[Darren2013]

This is not just about dating relationships but all relationships in general. My view that honesty is NOT always the best policy is not popular among moralists but when there can be no benefit derived from revealing the truth about a matter then honesty can be cruel. I don't believe in being truthful just for the sake of telling the truth. There has to be benefits to be reaped by the persons on the receiving end of the truth.

 

Sometimes lying is more polite and courteous than telling the truth. For example if I am invited to someone's house to dinner and I don't like the food I'm going to lie and say that the food was excellent and make it sound sincere when I say it. Why? Because it is unlikely that the host of that dinner function would benefit at all from knowing my true opinion about the food especially if I am not going to ever set foot in that house again. This kind of deception is necessary as a way of humoring those who invited me over. It isn't important for them to know that I didn't like the food.

 

When it comes to my political views I know how to mimic the republican talk among my republican friends just to avoid confrontation and debate but I'll go vote for Obama privately at the polls at election time. There's a reason voting is such a private matter and why nobody is going to know who I mark on that ballot unless I volunteer that information. This kind of deception is necessary to keep peace between myself and my republican friends. There can be no benefit to them knowing the truth about who I vote for.

 

Or if I know that someone is trying to scam me for money I don't feel any moral responsibility to be honest with someone who wants to take advantage of me. Two can play at that game. Hence why I told this one dude who approached me at a rest area asking for 15 bucks that I don't have money and I too and seeking help because my ex wife cleaned me out in divorce court. I had to make up a story about an ex wife when I have never been married.

[me85]

There are exceptions to every rule.

[Arieswoman]

Darren2013,

This is a topic that has had much debate.

 

People are perverse in this respect as they say they want honesty, but when they get it they often throw a hissy-fit.

 

I'm not sure about dinner-party etiquette - do you get a menu beforehand or are you expected just to sit down and eat whatever is put in front of you? The latter seems daft to me as it doesn't cater for people with dietary preferences, such as vegetarian or allergies (nuts, gluten).

 

My first husband asked me once what my favourite cut flowers were. I told him I liked all flowers except tulips and lillies. One day he turned up to collect me from my workplace with a bunch of, yes, correct, tulips. I thanked him, but when we got in the car I asked him why he had brought me tulips when he knew I didn't like them. He sulked for 2 days over it and I was never bought flowers again.

 

My second husband asked me earlier this year what I wanted for my birthday. I said I needed a new purse (UK "purse" not USA "purse") and I needed a good size one for my store cards etc, not leather and not brown. He got the "not leather" bit correct but it was brown and so big that once it was in my handbag there wasn't room for anything else ! I thanked him and then spent an hour the next Saturday in town looking for one that was similar but smaller. He hasn't noticed the difference yet and with a bit of luck he won't.

I've come to the conclusion that men just don't listen sometimes.

 

I lost a female friend once, because I told her that I didn't like her boyfriend because I thought he was stringing her along. I found out months later that he had done just that and taken her for a whole pile of money.

 

The 'truth' is "all things to all people" it seems........

[Darren2013]

Even doctors sometimes have to lie by omission in extreme circumstances like if a patient has a terminal illness. There are situations when it may be better for the patient not to know the truth about that at least for the time being depending on their personality type and any mental illness they have, etc. If keeping a patient ignorant of a terminal diagnosis is going to be an incentive for them to carry on their life to the fullest then so be it. However some patients need to know the truth because they need time to prepare for the end and settle financial affairs if they have surviving dependants for example. So there's many gray areas to consider and deception is not always harmful.

[RonaldS]

Q: Do these jeans make my ass look fat?

 

A: No. Of course not.

[kjohn]

I agree that there are some things better left unsaid because they would only serve to be hurtful, but I completely disagree that honesty is not always the best policy.

 

It is completely possible to be honest and tactful at the same time.

 

You don't have to lie.

 

In the case of the dinner party....if I invited you for dinner and directly asked you "how did you like to food?"

 

Saying "It tasted like crap!" is brutal honesty and hurtful, but saying something like "It was good, but I guess Indian cuisine must not be my thing because it was a bit spicy for me to handle, but thank you so much for going to the trouble of making the meal. You gave me the chance to try something I had never tried before." That, to me, is honest yet tactful.

 

If you life and say the food was great, the next time I invite you over for dinner I'm going to remember how much you "liked" that thing I made last time and I might make it for you again.

 

As for the politics....why do you feel that you have to "play along" when your friends are talking politics that you don't agree with? Why not just not engage in the conversation and, if asked why you are not participating, say something like "I'm sorry, but I don't talk politics because I have found that it just leads to arguments."

 

Honest and tactful. No need for lies or pretending that you agree with them to their faces and then doing what you believe behind their backs.

 

As for the "do these jeans make my butt look fat" believe it or not, women don't ask these questions because we want you to say what you think we want to hear....we ask because we value your opinion. At least I do anyway.

 

Just the other day I drastically changed my hairstyle. I asked my BF if he liked it. He said "you look great either way."

 

I said "Thank you, but you are avoiding the question."

 

He admitted he liked the old style better. I didn't get mad. I asked him the question because I was genuinely interested in his opinion. His opinion is important to me. He is my best friend. If I can't get an honest opinion from my best friend, who can I get it from? We all need somebody we can trust to always be straight with us.

 

Now, as far as some things being better left unsaid because they only serve to be hurtful....again, I don't think you have to lie, you just have to be selective with what you say.

 

Here's an example...

 

A few months ago, my BF and I were in a pretty heated argument. We got together with his brother and SIL for dinner while we were still upset with each other. They apparently sensed that there was tension between the two of us so the next day his brother called him to make sure everything was ok.

 

Part of the argument started because I was annoyed about something that his SIL had done, but I know myself and I knew that I would get over it. It was not a big enough deal that anything needed to be said to her. I was just venting to my best friend/partner to get it off my chest.

 

So, when his brother asked if everything was ok, instead of just saying "We were having a bit of argument, but we are working on it and everything will be fine" he decided to tell his brother all of the details about how I was annoyed with the SIL.

 

What did that do?

 

It caused the SIL to get upset, which caused his brother to get mad at me and then when I found out he had done that it caused me to get upset with him.

 

He was not lying by saying we were having an argument. That was honest.

 

Filling them in on the private details of our argument was just unnecessary and hurtful to everyone involved.

 

When I pointed that out to him, a lightbulb went on. He got it and completely agreed with me.

 

That, to me, is an example of not lying, still being honest, but not saying things that will serve no purpose other than to be hurtful and potentially make thing worse.

[kjohn]

...and by the way....if a doctor "lies by omission" that is grounds for a medical malpractice lawsuit.

 

Just saying.

[beatcuff]

As for the "do these jeans make my butt look fat" believe it or not, women don't ask these questions because we want you to say what you think we want to hear....we ask because we value your opinion. At least I do anyway.

 

thanks for the laugh... now back to the real world.

[salparadise]

I told him I liked all flowers except tulips and lillies. One day he turned up to collect me from my workplace with a bunch of, yes, correct, tulips. I thanked him, but when we got in the car I asked him why he had brought me tulips when he knew I didn't like them. He sulked for 2 days over it and I was never bought flowers again.

 

Anyone who is objectively truthful all of the time, or even most of the time, will alienate people so fast that it's not even funny. I don't even consider it lying... it's just garden variety social grace that is necessary to get along with people whether it's a spouse or coworkers or whomever. Not getting it usually indicates some sort of social maladjustment issue.

 

My most recent girlfriend has issues of this variety. She had a birthday a few months ago and mentioned that she had not had a birthday cake in years. I asked what kind of cake was her favorite. She said chocolate. So I dug into the research and came up with the best damn chocolate cake recipe imaginable... in my opinion. It was a 4 layer German chocolate, made entirely from scratch. I spent a lot of time sourcing the ingredients and baking that cake and making the icing... and the cost was about equal to a decent restaurant meal (which I also treated her too).

 

Well, instead of just expressing appreciation for the big effort I went to to fulfill her wish and make her happy, she informed me that she didn't like German chocolate icing and picked around the icing eating only cake. She did say that the cake part was probably the best she had ever eaten, but by then I was so demoralized that I felt like saying phukit and leaving. But I didn't- I covered my feelings as best I could and continued trying to give her a wonderful birthday.

 

This is only one example of her being too objectively truthful. There is some element missing in her social/emotional awareness. She wonders why she has so much trouble with close relationships... intimate partners and family.

 

This black and white notion about always be completely truthful just doesn't work socially. There are times to be honest and there are times to be tactful, and knowing when to do each is one of the key ingredients if emotional intelligence.

[d0nnivain]

Tact is important.

 

Since the OP mentioned food I will share this story.

 

DH & I ate at a restaurant as a part of a tour. The hosts were going around asking how the food was. This had been one of the worst meals I ever had -- overcooked, flavorless, just bad. But the people were so lovely. When they got to our table & asked how everything was, everyone hemmed & hawed. Nobody wanted to lie. But nobody wanted to hurt their feelings. Although it was a restaurant, that may have been an overstatement. It was more like somebody's home.

 

I smiled & said "it was just like grandma's". The hostess beamed as she walked away.

 

My tablemates were aghast that I could say that. When my husband stopped laughing, he explained that my grandmother was a horrible cook.

 

I told the truth tactfully. Do you see the difference?

[Darren2013]

Hopefully our government won't require citizens to wear truth collars that make a buzzing noise every time we lie. You'd be surprised how many lies one will tell in a day whether white lies or not.

[Mister Zen]

OP.. I totally agree with you. Lying is simply more efficient and convenient than honestly in many situations.

 

But I don't care who knows I voted for Obama (and would do it again). My political beliefs are a big part of my identity. My Republican friends can suck it.

 

The only place I keep such views to myself is at work.

[Gloria25]

@OP,

 

Your thread got me pondering about my most recent crush....

 

Twice when I sorta "questioned" him about two things he did on separate occasions (1) Him asking me if I was upset one day; and, (2) Him looking at my house on two occasions...he denied remembering or doing those things...When I kinda gave him a look on the 2nd thing, he admitted being in my area, but said he was there for other reasons (in other words, not to look at my house).

 

I just wondered if he was lying about not remembering/doing what I "thought" he was doing...And "if" he was lying, why lie about that?

 

I mean, I'm not crazy and/or dumb...And, while I can understand someone not admitting certain things (out of embarrassment, misunderstandings, etc.)...when someone's behavior is quite obvious (i.e. I could see him looking in my direction those two times) and he/she denies it - I think it makes the other person think you are either insulting their intelligence or gas lighting them.

 

So, while I "get" that a lot of us tell little "white lies"...I think there's times where even "if" you don't tell the person the exact truth, full out denial is insulting their intelligence and actually off-putting to them.

[carhill]

Q: Do these jeans make my ass look fat?

 

A: No. Of course not.

'Well, take them off and let me compare'

 

Marital foreplay

 

What I usually do, on the fly, is decide whether such a 'deception' is helpful or hurtful.

 

While issues like a 'fat ass' could be important to some, we all decide where such matters fall on the continuum of human relations. For myself, even though very loving at base, it was exceedingly hard to lie to someone I loved, because honesty would have never done the job, to get her into a locked mental institution. In comparison, telling my exW her ass wasn't fat in jeans was nothing. Different planets.

[Darren2013]

I agree that there are some things better left unsaid because they would only serve to be hurtful, but I completely disagree that honesty is not always the best policy.

 

It is completely possible to be honest and tactful at the same time.

 

You don't have to lie.

 

In the case of the dinner party....if I invited you for dinner and directly asked you "how did you like to food?"

 

Saying "It tasted like crap!" is brutal honesty and hurtful, but saying something like "It was good, but I guess Indian cuisine must not be my thing because it was a bit spicy for me to handle, but thank you so much for going to the trouble of making the meal. You gave me the chance to try something I had never tried before." That, to me, is honest yet tactful.

 

If you life and say the food was great, the next time I invite you over for dinner I'm going to remember how much you "liked" that thing I made last time and I might make it for you again.

 

As for the politics....why do you feel that you have to "play along" when your friends are talking politics that you don't agree with? Why not just not engage in the conversation and, if asked why you are not participating, say something like "I'm sorry, but I don't talk politics because I have found that it just leads to arguments."

 

Honest and tactful. No need for lies or pretending that you agree with them to their faces and then doing what you believe behind their backs.

 

As for the "do these jeans make my butt look fat" believe it or not, women don't ask these questions because we want you to say what you think we want to hear....we ask because we value your opinion. At least I do anyway.

 

Just the other day I drastically changed my hairstyle. I asked my BF if he liked it. He said "you look great either way."

 

I said "Thank you, but you are avoiding the question."

 

He admitted he liked the old style better. I didn't get mad. I asked him the question because I was genuinely interested in his opinion. His opinion is important to me. He is my best friend. If I can't get an honest opinion from my best friend, who can I get it from? We all need somebody we can trust to always be straight with us.

 

Now, as far as some things being better left unsaid because they only serve to be hurtful....again, I don't think you have to lie, you just have to be selective with what you say.

 

Here's an example...

 

A few months ago, my BF and I were in a pretty heated argument. We got together with his brother and SIL for dinner while we were still upset with each other. They apparently sensed that there was tension between the two of us so the next day his brother called him to make sure everything was ok.

 

Part of the argument started because I was annoyed about something that his SIL had done, but I know myself and I knew that I would get over it. It was not a big enough deal that anything needed to be said to her. I was just venting to my best friend/partner to get it off my chest.

 

So, when his brother asked if everything was ok, instead of just saying "We were having a bit of argument, but we are working on it and everything will be fine" he decided to tell his brother all of the details about how I was annoyed with the SIL.

 

What did that do?

 

 

 

 

It caused the SIL to get upset, which caused his brother to get mad at me and then when I found out he had done that it caused me to get upset with him.

 

He was not lying by saying we were having an argument. That was honest.

 

Filling them in on the private details of our argument was just unnecessary and hurtful to everyone involved.

 

When I pointed that out to him, a lightbulb went on. He got it and completely agreed with me.

 

That, to me, is an example of not lying, still being honest, but not saying things that will serve no purpose other than to be hurtful and potentially make thing worse.

 

 

Depending on how much I disliked the food I might not even come back and would come up with an excuse not to accept another invite. There's all kinds of excuses I can use not to come.

 

But there's different degrees of dislike. Some food I can eat more than once even if I don't like it since I can just tolerate it. So depending on my tolerance level I may accept another invite and just eat what they cook. It won't kill me to eat it every once in awhile.

 

A little bit of inconvenience on my part is worth keeping others happy. It isn't that hard as long as I am not invited over on a daily basis. Anyone who goes through the trouble of preparing food for guests wants to hear positive things and they want their food to be complimented. It is their house and while setting foot on their property I don't feel that my opinion about their food should really matter all that much.