This particular forum has me thinking....

March 8, 2005

i too can come with about 10 stories where i told someone where to go because they came on to me and they were attached/married

what does it prove??

March 8, 2005

Ignorant, "Masters of the Obvious" who cannot think for themselves -

who state only phrases, quips, etc. that is the on-going fact/opinion of others-AGAIN, OBVIOUS BEING THE OPERATIVE WORD HERE - i

I don't think any of the OW's here want someone to co-sign the Bu!!s*** we are deal'g with - but it is just ridiculous when someone comes to toot-their own horn" HEY, I WALKED AWAY - true i was deaf, dumb and blind by this MM for 39 yrs., but hey, I DID IT AND NOW YOU CAN, TOO - Rah, Rah, sis-boom-bah!

And for the record (which i will update when the time is right) I believe i have a 75% chance of being w/my MM should i choose to pursue it.

(Now this is where all you "Masters" chime in w/"If he did it w/you, he'll do it to you" - BUT THAT'S ALREDY BEING DISCUSSED ON ANOTHER POST).

March 8, 2005

Originally posted by MsMree
Ignorant, "Masters of the Obvious" who cannot think for themselves -

who state only phrases, quips, etc. that is the on-going fact/opinion of others-AGAIN, OBVIOUS BEING THE OPERATIVE WORD HERE - i

I don't think any of the OW's here want someone to co-sign the Bu!!s*** we are deal'g with - but it is just ridiculous when someone comes to toot-their own horn" HEY, I WALKED AWAY - true i was deaf, dumb and blind by this MM for 39 yrs., but hey, I DID IT AND NOW YOU CAN, TOO - Rah, Rah, sis-boom-bah!

And for the record (which i will update when the time is right) I believe i have a 75% chance of being w/my MM should i choose to pursue it.

(Now this is where all you "Masters" chime in w/"If he did it w/you, he'll do it to you" - BUT THAT'S ALREDY BEING DISCUSSED ON ANOTHER POST).

Then what is the point of posting on this forum? I am trying to understand why it is that say - I - chose to walk away, but other people are powerless to do it?

March 8, 2005

Are you asking why are you strong enough to walk away and others are not? I apologize that i'm not quite comprehend'g the question. But if that is indeed the question i suppose you could equal it to "Why is it that i can quit smoking, but others cannot" - you can make any comparison you want - however detrimental OR NOT SO that fits the situation. Some women may be powerless to walk away (i don't buy that, though) but choose not to -it really depends on "where" the greater amount of pain lies at that time - staying or going.

One thing is for sure - we're dealing w/human emotions here so there is never one answer that suits all.

Then what is the point of posting on this forum?

For me, i sit on the fence with wanting to walk away - WANT TO, DON'T WANT TO. Over and over again - when i come here, i arm myself with alot of facts/opinions/support/etc. that help me no matter where my head is in a given day.

As always, i am grateful to those who give so freely - the posts/responses i like as well as the one or two i do not.

March 8, 2005

Originally posted by MsMree
Are you asking why are you strong enough to walk away and others are not? I apologize that i'm not quite comprehend'g the question. But if that is indeed the question i suppose you could equal it to "Why is it that i can quit smoking, but others cannot" - you can make any comparison you want - however detrimental OR NOT SO that fits the situation. Some women may be powerless to walk away (i don't buy that, though) but choose not to -it really depends on "where" the greater amount of pain lies at that time - staying or going.

One thing is for sure - we're dealing w/human emotions here so there is never one answer that suits all.

I suppose it is an unrealistic question. People always wanted to know why I stayed in a physically and emotionaly abusive relationship for so long....because I couldn't get it through my head that it would never "get better" and the fantasy I had going on in my head would never be played out in reality. In so many ways I see this with cheating spouses and their lovers. I was cheated on like 7 times by my exBF, with nasty skanky women, all less attractive than me - I was often confused and I came here to try to understand why he would do it, and why the women he did it with would chose to do it, knowing me and knowing that he and I were involved - hell, two girls knew about me and the fact that I was pregnant with his baby and still cheated with him. I can't help but wonder why? Why did they chose to hurt someone else like that when I couldn't even bear the thought?

March 8, 2005

Originally posted by MsMree
I don't think any of the OW's here want someone to co-sign the Bu!!s*** we are deal'g with - but it is just ridiculous when someone comes to toot-their own horn" HEY, I WALKED AWAY - true i was deaf, dumb and blind by this MM for 39 yrs., but hey, I DID IT AND NOW YOU CAN, TOO - Rah, Rah, sis-boom-bah!

Perhaps this is exactly the encouragement some people need in order to do what is right for themselves.

March 8, 2005

i really did not think of her - my MM came right out and told me he believed he fell in love w/me at first sight - now i was in a place in my life where this sounded so flattering, so good - i felt like the cat's pajamas!!!

My point is, once my esteem was raised, albeit, from an unhealthy source, i wasn't think'g of anything but how can i get more of this "good-feel'n" stuff? WHAT W?

There is alot of truth to the MM/OW relationship that you can compare to drugs/junkies - only the roles of junkies get played by both actors. (Does that make sense?)

So you really don't know what happened w/your xBF and those women (what he said? how he pursued him? what their motives were?...)

March 8, 2005

Originally posted by MsMree
So you really don't know what happened w/your xBF and those women (what he said? how he pursued him? what their motives were?...)

Mainly the only thing I know is that those women were always drug users who used with him (I was clean and sober during our relationship and fell off the wagon after he and I split and I had a miscarriage).....I know he met and pursued them in bars or at crack houses. I have no idea what their motives were. One girl asked me to stop talking to him because I was impeding the ability for their relationship to develop (I told her she could have him, he called me and begged me to come back to him); the other said she just wanted sex....the last two, I think were the same way, one wanted a real relatiosnhip with him, the other just wanted sex....I wanted nothing from him, he stalked me, he broke into my house, now he is going to prison for 10 years for burglary with battery, and the whole time he stalked me he was dating two of the girls that he had cheated on me with.

Men are weird. But so are OW! Turns out OW, who was his GF in the end, had no clue about his past criminal history or anything like that. I suppose she assumed he was always being completely honest with her. har har har. snort.

March 8, 2005

have to admit that i thought of the W at the beginning until he convinced me (and i do believe it was the truth - sort of) that she wanted a divorce and would be filing that summer. so, after that, she didn't cross my mind and in fact when she found out my immediate reaction was that she wouldn't care. he said he was surprised by her reaction, as well. he had convinced himself that even though they were under the same roof it was just where they lived, there was no marriage.

so her reaction was a bit more than either of us expected. i know he said at one point that he didn't think she'd have such a cow about the whole thing. because of what she'd said to him over the years, he just expected that she'd take the knowledge (or not) and just go away sort of quietly... although i'm not sure that she'd ever disappear quietly, even if she had gone through with the divorce she said she wanted!

March 8, 2005

Mainly the only thing I know is that those women were always drug users who used with him

Otter, i think you'll find that is not the norm here - i'm not sure you can adequately compare the women/addicts your xBF was involved with and the women here.

March 8, 2005

Originally posted by blind_otter
I remember this one time I was hanging out with this guy RIIIIIGHT after I got divorced 2 years ago. He was a tattoo artist who wanted to do work on my back (I have an ongoing piece that I keep adding to). We hooked up a few times, he poured his heart out about his ex, I poured my heart out about my exH - we were the breakup couple, I thought, we were seeking solace from each other about our past relationships. rebound city, right?

I was at his house and someone pounds on his door. Guess who? Keiko, his "ex", was actually his Girlfriend/fiancee! She kicked the door in and bloodied his nose and came after me. She looked exactly like me, plus about 5 inches and 30 lbs. Same shape and everything! I had to jump out the bedroom window with no shirt on to get the hell away from her. I'm sure the two of them proceeded to have a tearful reunion and makeup sex.

A few days later she called me at my house to grill me about my interactions with her "man". I related that her man and I were no longer associating with one another and I hoped to god she could extricate herself from her relationship with him because he was a lying, cheating, a**h***. Eventually, she did....

here's the thing. Moral of the story. I found out he was attached, not even married mind you, but attached to someone else, and I dumped him. End of story. Next guy please.

Ah I wish I could have done that with my abusive exBF. I suppose we all have our hangups. I re-enact horrific trauma situations by getting involved with physically abusive a**h***s, some women are committment-phobic and are irresistably attracted to emotionally unavailable men. Whatever your poison, I suppose. I can't really judge. But at least when I am self-destructive, I don't hurt anyone but myself - ya know? I mean, seriously.

THANK U FOR SHARING

you know what,i come here to vent to discuss

with people who have been &are in my situation

not for those who feel they never done wrong to judge me

or come here thinking to save somebody

and you know what i had A with MM

it didn't hurt nobody but me & him

because W does not know

March 9, 2005

A lot of you protested and brushed off what I said, but no one has really bothered answering the questions I asked. I didn't ask to be "mean". I asked because I want to know what you have to say. You can bash me as a person and accuse me of being ignorant to the difficulty of your situations, but none of you try to explain where you're coming from? That makes a lot of sense... If I really do have my head as far up my ass as you all seem to believe, and if what I'm saying to you is so wrong...prove it. Is that too hard? So far I'm getting:

"If you really have to ask, then it's not worth me explaining it to you..."

There's an common complaint that comes up when I post, and MsMree has been nice enough to make you look like hypocrites. ...my advice is meaningless to you because I've never been involved in an affair and I can't possibly "understand"... but when someone who HAS been in an affair(sweet-ooh) posts here and gives you the same advice...YOU BLOW HER OFF TOO.

She's not looking to help...she's just "tooting her own horn".

Regardless of who it comes from, you'll never listen you anything that you don't *want* to hear.

...Anyway, this is what I want to know:

1) How exactly is it "complicated"?...If you didn't know he was married before, that's a shame. But guess what? You know he's married NOW. Mentioning that you didn't know BEFOREHAND doesn't make a bit of difference with what you choose to do RIGHT NOW. Continuing to stay in the situation and acting as if you no longer have any choice in the matter is just pathetic. You can yell at me all you want, but deep down inside you know that's a lame excuse and a weak attempt of justifying YOUR DECISION. Love makes us crazy. Love can convince you stupid choices are right. "Love" does NOT contractually bind you to stay in a situation which is clearly bad for you.

2) Your "Prince Charming" is someone who has no trouble with coldly and calculatingly lying to at least one person he claims to love, and someone who finds it perfectly acceptable to humiliate and damage his wife/family in the worst way possible...and you're in love with him? Real classy guy...Grade A.

3) "...have any of you ever considered that it actually ISN'T that complicated? I've heard posters claim that our advice means nothing because we haven't been in these kinds of relationships and therefore our advice is biased...but do you realize the ultimate hypocrisy in the fact that you yourselves are even MORE biased in the way you decide to handle things? You ladies have something to lose(IYO) since you're "in love". Considering that reality...don't you think it would be in your best interests to listen to people who *haven't* gotten into this mess themselves?

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@CaughtUp and MsMree: If you two want to pull things out of your asses about my personality or my reasons for posting here, go ahead. But don't parade around here pretending that the turds in your hand actually belong to me... You haven't made one accurate statement about me yet. I don't feel that I'm better than anyone else. You seem to fit that mold a lot better. For a group of people who claim it's wrong to judge, I certainly have run into a lot of people that enjoy judging me...

My posts are longer than most, because aside from art, writing is something I enjoy. I don't like "hearing myself speak". I just prefer to get my point across the *first* time. Sorry if I don't have a short, witty, "Post of the Day" for you. I'm not your monkey. Find someone else to amuse you. I'm trying to help people if I can. By the way, considering that I've said before that I hate seeing people hurt...claiming that I post here to hurt people is pretty stupid. Why don't you go drink some cleaning products or something, instead of wasting my time?

March 9, 2005

LoveShack should create a forum for "Hey want to be browbeat about the things you are already bothered by" and then everyone can be happy.

Why do posters come here and say things they know will upset the OW/OM and then in turn get upset because we get upset. It sounds like a drama thing to me. I mean haven't we made it clear that we understand the pros and cons? Aren't we posting the problems we are facing? So they can't think pointing them out to us is showing US anything new? I just don't see how they think they are helping. I don't think a one of us has asked for someone to OK our position we are just here for therapy a chat with our gf's who truly understand.

I have a sneaking suspicion of a few things: That some of these people are spouses that have been cheated on or some moralist group has been unleashed to teach us the error of our ways for even having a site about such an evil thing. I mean how dare we comfort the sinners.

March 9, 2005

First its kinda hard to find your questions when they are surrounded with so many insults so forgive me for being slow on the uptake you know how stuid us OW are.

1. Its complicated because sometimes humans have these things called emotions and feelings and they don't always behave in the manner that is socially acceptable. You might look into the behavior of humans sometimes.

2. Is #2 a question or just more insults from you...hmm please explain this to me being as stupid as I am.

3. NO, there is no way to take advice from someone about how they handled being with a MM/MW if they have never been with a MM/MW. What you don't seem to get is our lives are full of people just like you who have all the answers for the things they have never been faced with. Unless you are perfect (ha ha ha ha ha ) then you have somewhere in your life that someone looking from the outside might go well he should just ____________ and you might be hard pressed to enact this bit of advice.

Now some questions for you:

1. Are you having a hard time finding women and are jealous of these cheating husbands for having more than their fair share of women? Because you sound really upset about this.

2. Do you consider yourself perfect?

3. Why do you have the time to come to this site? I mean, why do YOU feel the need to come here if you have never had an affair with a MM or MW?

4. How have MsMree and I painted ourselves as better than anyone else? By being honest and not coming down on other people?

5. Do you somehow view us as the enemy?

and P.S. you apparently aren't doing to well with getting your point across the first time if you had to post your questions twice...just a thought...maybe change tactics...just a thought from a stupid OW. And your Pic does sort of favor a monkey...hmmmmmmmm...

March 9, 2005

Originally posted by CaughtUp
LoveShack should create a forum for "Hey want to be browbeat about the things you are already bothered by" and then everyone can be happy.

no, silly. not everyone would be happy with just that!

the only way that would happen was if there was another forum called "we come here to whine about problems that we create for ourselves, and we only want advice from those who will tell us what we want to hear, and what we want to hear is all good, happy things about the bad choices we make."

there, then everything would be all better for you, now wouldn't it?

sorry, it doesn't work that way.

March 9, 2005

Apparently, the definition of 'browbeat' is now 'tell people things they don't want to hear'.

1. Its complicated because sometimes humans have these things called emotions and feelings and they don't always behave in the manner that is socially acceptable. You might look into the behavior of humans sometimes.

Big whoopee doo. Here's a news flash - ALL OF US HAVE EMOTIONS. Some of us also have reason and intellect and we control those emotions by using the reason and intellect. Do you mean that because you are furious you can kill someone? Is it excusable to beat your kid because you're mad that he broke your lamp? Do you f*ck everything that moves that makes you horny? No? Then don't even try to plead that you can't control yourself because it is pure BS.

3. NO, there is no way to take advice from someone about how they handled being with a MM/MW if they have never been with a MM/MW.

You also ignore and berate people who HAVE had affairs and tell you why it's a big mistake.

The point is this: a bunch of you want to continue in the affairs and want to hear nothing but empathy and views exactly like yours. Too bad, so sad, won't happen on a public forum.

Like the man said ' YOU CAN'T HANDLE THE TRUTH'.

March 9, 2005

Well, Moimeme you should teach a class or something. Because apparently you haven't ever done anything that would be considered wrong and I feel we should also give you a medal or something...

Just because you express an idea and that idea isn't taken as gospel and people don't start behaving the way YOU think they should in the time frame YOU think it should happen then you feel that you have been berated. And for the record I asked why (in the same obnoxious manner you gave your "advice") you were here I didn't ask you to leave.

Maybe you should take the time to look at how some of us respond to people who don't agree with being the OW/OM but approached us in a respectful way I don't think ANY of them were berated.

And I noticed you didn't answer any of my questions I mean you didn't mind jumping in there to respond for Grinning Maniac just wondering why that part was overlooked and you can feel free to adjust any of the questions to reflect your gender or what have you.

Question: Why are such wonderful perfect people wasting their time in here where they feel berated?

No one has answered that one yet. I'm still thinking we are under attack by the morality brigade...

March 9, 2005

Originally posted by GirlDown

no, silly. not everyone would be happy with just that!

the only way that would happen was if there was another forum called "we come here to whine about problems that we create for ourselves, and we only want advice from those who will tell us what we want to hear, and what we want to hear is all good, happy things about the bad choices we make."

there, then everything would be all better for you, now wouldn't it?

sorry, it doesn't work that way.

HaHaHa, very good point.

March 9, 2005

to discuss the EXPERIENCE of others in their situation - experience being past or present. Which just makes it all the more insulting to hear the OPINIONS of those who are not/were not in this situation; those opinions seem to be formed from a moral standpoint and are redundant.

And if you have been in an OW/OM relationship and want to share how you manage/managed i really hope your bringing more to this forum than "Just Walk Away" or "It is wrong, so very wrong" -

I'll say it again, the women on this site are very intelligent - and hey, i'll take a brow-beat'g from someone who's been there and treats me like i'm older than 5.

March 9, 2005

GOOOODDDD MOOORRNINGGG!!!

March 9, 2005

I don't think a one of us has asked for someone to OK our position

Wrongo. There have been and are a group of people who are unrepentant about what they're doing and challenge the planet to call them on it because by damn they will do what they feel like. And others claim they are helpless and unable to stop. Both groups are deluding themselves. Sometimes a cold splash of water will wake someone up.

Well, Moimeme you should teach a class or something. Because apparently you haven't ever done anything that would be considered wrong and I feel we should also give you a medal or something...

You're being ridiculous.

then you feel that you have been berated

Um. Wasn't me complaining about being 'browbeaten'.

And for the record I asked why (in the same obnoxious manner you gave your "advice") you were here

Answer: because.

There is nothing disrespectful in what I said. I just don't coat what I say in flowery phrases. It's just that people don't want to hear the stripped-down, unvarnished truth.

just wondering why that part was overlooked and you can feel free to adjust any of the questions to reflect your gender or what have you.

It's irrelevant. Take my advice for the words. Who I am, what I've done, and my life in general is not relevant - if the advice is good, it stands on its own.

Why are such wonderful perfect people wasting their time in here where they feel berated?

I don't feel berated. I think it's dumb that people shoot the messenger rather than look at the message.

I'm still thinking we are under attack by the morality brigade

Oh good lord. What utter garbage. Being decent to your fellow human is the basis of the creation of 'morality' but is, at heart, just the best way to go about living one's life. And helping some a$$clown betray his woman does not qualify as being decent to one's fellow human. That's the point.

March 9, 2005

moi,

of course your advice is valid and in many ways i'm sure it's what some need to hear. and GMs too. and i know i'm, personally, not saying that you can't or shouldn't post here. but what is always frustrating for me, and perhaps it was the way i was raised or the profession i'm in, i've learned that the message isn't always received the way we want if it's given in a way that makes people defensive. sometimes the "problem" is with the transmitter and not the receiver.

March 9, 2005

I've already said I'm succinct. I haven't singled anyone out, nor was I thinking of anyone in particular. I tossed one chunk of advice/opinion into the pot. It's good advice. So is Spock's. So is GM's. So is that of others here.

People have got to understand that forums are not personal; they are impersonal which is why they are valuable. I know nobody and nobody knows me which is why the words stand on their own. However, of course when people's illusions and self-deception are threatened, they get defensive. But you gotta let all that junk go if you're going to extricate yourselves from the messes you're stuck in.

Some folks will listen and change and others will keep the defenses up until they've crumbled due to the awful situation. I have no personal investment in whatever happens. I just hope a few folks will wake up and smell the dysfunctional rationalizations and get out of situations which will only cause themselves and a bunch of other folks harm. For their sakes.

March 9, 2005

but moi.... that's the thing. when someone comes here and they're already struggling with things and knowing in their heart that it's wrong (hey, most DO come here because they're having doubts) being told that they're dysfunctional or that they are morally wrong, skanks, etc., etc., etc. does NOTHING to help most people gain the strength to get out. it just further adds to their distress and sometimes pi$$es them off.

sure, sometimes tough love is in order, but typically that approach works best on people we know well, people who really sincerely know that they have our best interest at heart. it doesn't always work so well on complete strangers. and i know that sometimes things just can't be sugar coated and that some really are better at telling it like it is, than are others. i just find it amusing that some who come to this forum and present their views in the same way on different occassions, and get the same result, still continue to give the same message even though it's clear that it's not having the result they expect, or want.... different people getting defensive about the same thing that others got defensive about last week, the message just isn't getting through. unless the impact that they want is to start another heated discussion about the same thing AGAIN, they are being less successful than they may think.

if you were to go back and read through many of these posts, the posters who seem to have the mosts influence in getting other OWs to walk away from the situations they are in are NOT the ones who give us grief, they are the ones who gently and firmly point out to us that we need to get out for us, that support, that show they care, that offer constructive ideas and strategies, that give encouragement to make it another day with NC, to do whatever we can and to give us that self-power to get out.......... sugar and vinegar.....

March 9, 2005

that yes, i do get defensive and i don't like hearing alot of what's posted. BUT...

I always leave think'g about what i've read - i listen to the post(s) i don't like w/as much attention as anything else.

YES... it hits a nerve.

That is why i am here

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