kkat Posted March 5, 2005 Posted March 5, 2005 I'm in a bit of a tear over this. Help? My ex-MM recently has initiated alot of contact and discussion about wanting to re-establish a relationship with me, platonically, and that he would like our relationship to be public to satisfy my parameters that I will not be in a secret relationship with him. He has offered a "solution" in which he would tell his family, including his W, that he and I are in contact again (not that we had an affair) and that he would openly dine with me in his restaurant, see me occasionally for coffee, lunch, whatever, without lying about it, etc. I think this is beyond ridiculous, yet I have slipped a bit over the last few days and engaged in these conversations with him, and last night things got a bit strange and in a way, scary. He also talks alot about wanting me in his life, that I am still his best friend, and that while he is sorry he can't offer more that he doesn't want to lose me from his life. He has further communicated his fear that I am going to expose our A to his wife. He knows I have alot of resentment about our A and having been a secret, and also knows that my therapist(s) have recommended that by exposing our A I would be able to get "complete" with alot of the mess for myself emotionally. I have discussed this with him many times and told him I don't know what I will do - that I am not going to promise him it will never happen but that I also realize it would be hurtful to him, his W and family, and that this is a serious consideration for me. None of these conversations, FYI, have been an emotional outburst on my part, never have I presented it as a threat, nothing like that. So, last night, he told me he has decided that he is going to tell his W about our A and that if I chose to contact her as well so be it, in that he's sure our stories will be basically the same. I never said I was going to contact her and I am not sure what he is doing, or why, how I feel, anything. I know this is vague but any help appreciated.
d'Arthez Posted March 5, 2005 Posted March 5, 2005 I may not be an OW or BS, but I have responded earlier to your post(s). If MM is going to tell his wife about this second affair, there is nothing you can do to stop him. And also nothing to be gained by also telling his wife. It would lose its whole cathartic effect, if she already knew, because the secret already has been exposed. Furthermore, and I know you consider this very seriously, if he is going to tell you cannot predict the consequences it will have on BS. She might see MM for what he is, but she might also want to take all out on you. Not good. If he tells her of the second affair, you can forget about him, or any friendship whatsoever. She'd kill you and her husband if she would see you together again (might be an exaggeration, but you get the picture). You don't have to tell her, and I would lay low for a while. Find the strength in yourself to heal of all what has happened to you. I know that sounds very hard, but telling BS of the affair would not have solved the issues you may have with yourself, even though you resented your secret status very much.
Breathe Posted March 5, 2005 Posted March 5, 2005 If he does feel threatened that you may tell the W, he just may beat you to the punch to save his own ass. You have to give some (but little) credit to the cheater for coming clean rather than having to hear it from someone else. Honestly, how would you even know that MM told his wife about the A unless you talk to her directly? He could lie to you and say he told her (when he really didn't) just to prevent you from doing it.
whichwayisup Posted March 5, 2005 Posted March 5, 2005 If MM is going to tell his wife about this second affair, there is nothing you can do to stop him. And also nothing to be gained by also telling his wife. It would lose its whole cathartic effect, if she already knew, because the secret already has been exposed. Furthermore, and I know you consider this very seriously, if he is going to tell you cannot predict the consequences it will have on BS. She might see MM for what he is, but she might also want to take all out on you. Not good. If he tells her of the second affair, you can forget about him, or any friendship whatsoever. She'd kill you and her husband if she would see you together again (might be an exaggeration, but you get the picture). You don't have to tell her, and I would lay low for a while. Find the strength in yourself to heal of all what has happened to you. I know that sounds very hard, but telling BS of the affair would not have solved the issues you may have with yourself, even though you resented your secret status very much. Can't really add much more to this reply, it's got alot of depth to it. I agree 100% with everything d'Arthez has said too. My thoughts... Even if you both are 'friends' and the affair has stopped (sex part) there still is an ongoing emotional affair happening. Once an affair ends, like ANY relationship, both must not see/talk to eachother. Those feelings and all the hurts take a long time to go away, having the other person around, even casually is just going to pour salt in the wounds. Don't fool yourself (or maybe he is?) by thinking that you both can be JUST friends. Sooner or later something will fire up and it will start all over again.
newby Posted March 5, 2005 Posted March 5, 2005 kkat, firstly, do you still want to tell of the a? how do you think this would help you (i am genuinely interested)? it seems that his offer of friendship is all about trying to "manage" you as you said before. he is obviously terrified of you revealing all. the thing is do you really want to? it seems a strange thing for your therapist to suggest if youdont mind me saying. i understand that part of the plight of the ow is the fact that she is a secret/we are a secret. but that is why we have to get out of the relationship along with all the other reasons it is no good for us. theres nothing to do now that can change the past and solve all. the only thing is to move on from the past and heal and take our lessons into the future with us. the way i see it is that all that would accomplish is to ensure that it is still heavily affecting the present, and for how long do you want this to be affecting you? i would say to him, look i just want to move on and i suggest you do the same. it is too early for a friendship yet but maybe one day in the future when we have both resolved our issues to do with the a. i think that the mm also have a proccess to go through with getting over the a, there are many stages and this is one of them. i dont think that this communication is going to help either one of you move on from this. good luck in whatever you decide to do xx
MsMree Posted March 5, 2005 Posted March 5, 2005 in order to control the situation/you not tell'g his W about the affair - since you are not giving-in to the public friendship his fear of her knowing is just leading him to tell her - Do not be surprised if when she finds out he no longer has the need for you two being public "buddies" as his want for this was only initiated by his desire to keep the marriage semi-intact. THIS IS JUST HOW I READ IT...
Author kkat Posted March 5, 2005 Author Posted March 5, 2005 The thing is, and I've told him this repeatedly, I have no active intentions of exposing the A. I understand, at least somewhat, where the therapist was coming from - I have been obsessed for a year with wanting the truth of the A to come out - and she helped me understand why, what that would accomplish for me, and that by exposing it, I would accomplish those things. That, for me, isn't enough to justify it one way or the other - and the big reason for that is that I don't hate this MM or certainly his wife or children - and I am a peaceful person and realize fully that by exposing his actions, even as a messenger, the results would be painful to these people. So, to answer one question posed - no, I don't necessarily want to expose the A - as much as I wish it hadn't happened and that the facts were different - it's something I am struggling with and just don't know what to do. I'm just frustrated because I feel like as hard as I have tried and all the progress I have made I am not all the way free yet and I just want to be free. I am sure many of you can tell that somedays I feel stronger and closer to being "free" than others - and today I feel frustrated and mad at myself that I am not there yet. I also agree that his main reason for this "public friendship" thing was to manage me and his fears that he would out me. I have also reviewed last night's conversation in my head - and I realize that he said something significant last night and the other day that I skimmed right over. I think he wants his own guilt relieved and intends somehow, someday to tell his W and would like to conveniently blame that decision on me - he's making it out that I am about to tell so therefore he had to - when in fact that is just simply not the case. Bottom line - me saying I am so uncomfortable with the secret is not the same as me saying I'm going to tell the secret - and I have said this to him repeatedly but that's not what he's hearing. Thank you all for your level headed thoughts.
lynnered Posted March 5, 2005 Posted March 5, 2005 i don't see why if you have no intention of a future relationship , why are you bothering to talk to him ? why be friends ,it doesn't sound like you need that from him i would get my closure with him, keep up therapy, if he tells wifey ask him not to mention your name , &keep it movin (your life)
newby Posted March 5, 2005 Posted March 5, 2005 i'm with lynnered, say to him what he decides to do is his buisiness and not to bring you into it as you just want to move on with your life. and then have no further contact with him, if anything is stopping you from being completely free i'd say thats a major factor.
Mr Spock Posted March 6, 2005 Posted March 6, 2005 Or you could just take a fork and poke yourself in the eye with it, because it sounds like just as much fun .
Author kkat Posted March 6, 2005 Author Posted March 6, 2005 Great advice and I realize that this is obvious - I was doing pretty well with things and really enjoying - thriving - with NC. I started doing badly again and getting twisted over him three weeks ago when he started this "public friendship" campaign, then the dead dog thing, blah blah blah. I am much better off without having contact with him, and that's the place I have to go back to. Thanks for setting me straight. Needed that shove/fork in the eye perhaps.
mourningMM Posted March 6, 2005 Posted March 6, 2005 NC...No Contact... Or No Control? You do have control over yourself, what you say, what you do and with whom you do it. You do not have control over him, what he says, and what he thinks. I think you have to get to NC...Not Caring. Yes, he was your lover, maybe he was your friend. If you love(d) him and want the best for him and yourself, by ending this you will... delete his phone number delete his old emails put a spam-blocker on any new emails that come in. delete any new phone messages from him without listening to them. NEVER allow him to be alone with you. And if you do have to interact with him... Tell him how proud you are that he is moving on with his life and remaining faithful to his wife. Tell him how much better you are when you don't have contact from him. Tell him that you appreciate his restraint, and know that he will have the strength to leave you alone because you know that he wants what is best for you. And if he starts acting like he is best for you, pull up all of your old posts and if you have a diary re-read it. He is not what is best. You, with a single mature man able to be both your best friend and your lover; possibly to be the father of your future children (if you want?)...that is what is best for you. This guy would never be free of his past obligations...and the fact that you had an affair would make you poison to his wife, his friends, his family and most of all his children. They might be nice to you on the surface...but you would know that deep-down they despised both you and him for your choices. You don't sound that selfish.... An emotional affair is still an affair, it is cheating.
nextel Posted March 6, 2005 Posted March 6, 2005 He is not going to tell his wife. He wants you to think that he will so that you can keep quiet. Put it like this... When people are going to do something, they dont announce it. They just do it. You on the other hand OP, I dont think that you really know what you want from this man. If you did, you would be a happy young woman.
Mr Spock Posted March 6, 2005 Posted March 6, 2005 Tell him how proud you are that he is moving on with his life and remaining faithful to his wife. Tell him how much better you are when you don't have contact from him. Tell him that you appreciate his restraint, and know that he will have the strength to leave you alone because you know that he wants what is best for you. And if he starts acting like he is best for you, pull up all of your old posts and if you have a diary re-read it. He is not what is best. You, with a single mature man able to be both your best friend and your lover; possibly to be the father of your future children (if you want?)...that is what is best for you. This guy would never be free of his past obligations...and the fact that you had an affair would make you poison to his wife, his friends, his family and most of all his children. They might be nice to you on the surface...but you would know that deep-down they despised both you and him for your choices. You don't sound that selfish.... An emotional affair is still an affair, it is cheating. Overly theatrical BS. (no offence) Just cut out the drama-cut out HIM. I'm hoping you will gain a perverse sense of satisfaction by stopping all communication with him. Remember, he contacted YOU. Remember, and move on. I can tell you right now that even if she does find out he had an A doesn't mean she'll kick him out of the house. Women, as W and OW can be so incredibly stupid sometimes.
mourningMM Posted March 6, 2005 Posted March 6, 2005 No offense taken. One person's theatrics is just another person's emotions. Everyone has different ways of expressing themselves. But no one other than the OW will ever really know how hard it is for a MM to just leave her alone...and no one else will be able to give him the positive feedback that will help him move on home. I took this approach and both my ex MM and I left the affair and grew and healed...
mourningMM Posted March 6, 2005 Posted March 6, 2005 ....of course the fact that he died makes relapses less probably.
Author kkat Posted March 7, 2005 Author Posted March 7, 2005 I appreciate all the feedback. A few thoughts/replies: You on the other hand OP, I dont think that you really know what you want from this man. If you did, you would be a happy young woman. This makes alot of sense - I don't think I really know what I want from him, or maybe more specifically, I think I often, when I engage in ongoing discussions with him, confuse what I want with the old fantasy. I also don't know what "OP" means - please enlighten me? In response to some other thoughts mentioned: -I realize I would be better with no contact with him, at least in the present and foreseeable future. I've had success in some extended periods of no contact with him and in other cases - like the last couple of weeks - I have failed miserably. I've made no secret here that I know for me it is an addiction, and it's something I haven't overcome - yet. I work hard to control it through the steps I have recommended here (they've helped me alot) and through other things I'm doing but no, I haven't mastered it. I'm just still trying. -I know that I don't really want to be with him. I know intellectually he is not the person I thought he was, and I know that a life with him would not realistically give me what I want. Some of this is simply because of our painful history; other reasons include that I don't really trust him, (big shock) and he has several traits I don't care for anymore. I believe that if I thought for a second he was really available - (not that this will ever happen - but just to make a point) despite how much I loved him and remain addicted to the relationship leftovers - that I would run the other way as fast as I could. -I know that his wife wouldn't leave him if she discovered his affair with me, or at least I don't think she would. When he left her and told her he was in love with someone else (me) and lived with me for three years she never stopped wanting him to come home, and I can't imagine that things would be much different now. The preoccupation I have had with wanting the affair to be revealed has NOTHING to do with wanting it to lead to him leaving her and being with me; in fact, quite the opposite - I know it would permanently end even the remaining contact he has with me. I'm clear on that. -I appreciate the kind way in which D'Arthez points out that I have some issues - and boy do I realize this. I have major self-esteem issues and addiction issues around this relationship, among other junk. Thank you for your kind approach. This point has nothing to do with anything above - but just to share and solicit any feedback - , I do think it's somewhat confusing for me in that I lived with this man for three years not as an OW per se, certainly not as a secret. Granted, he never got his divorce and went back to his wife, but I never felt like the OW at that time, not at all. The affair I had with him beginning in 2003 was a different ballgame altogether. So I've had two very very different relationships, with the same man, and it's odd on top of being difficult.
SoleMate Posted March 12, 2005 Posted March 12, 2005 kkat...your story just leaves me teary-eyed. This man does not deserve even 1% of the space he is taking up inside your head.
Author kkat Posted March 12, 2005 Author Posted March 12, 2005 Thanks. I am teary-eyed (beyond that) myself this week; so sad again and can't shake it; feeling so many different things. I realize how much time I have given to this and then realize I am still doing it, and can't seem to stop. (Waiting now for someone to point out I can stop....) The details don't matter but I am trying again to completely cut contact with him, and I haven't heard from him in a few days - which of course turns me inside out in another way. I feel so pathetic. A coworker from my past randomly popped into the picture the other day- and in conversation asked how MM was doing - assuming we were still together, married! I simply said, no, the relationship ended years ago and when, in response to the follow-up questions of "what happened" and I said "well, he's back with his wife and family" this guy almost dropped the phone - said he and his wife used to talk about how they'd never seen anybody as in love as he was with me (we went to their wedding)... oh whatever....
goldy Posted March 12, 2005 Posted March 12, 2005 kkat, i feel your pain honey, i feel bad enough with what i'm going through, this though sounds awful. i dont know the best way, i am struggling to find my own best way. time. lots of work on oneself. i dont know what kind of situation you are in but whatever you can do with your resources that is beneficial for the body, mind and spirit. girlfriends. dates. courses. new makeovers. health spa. yoga. meditation.
Owl Posted March 14, 2005 Posted March 14, 2005 So has he told his wife yet??? I think that he's simply playing a game to find some way to keep you in his life. He's looking for any excuse he can to talk with you. Personally, I think that one or the other of you SHOULD expose this to his wife. It'll put an end to the BS he's shoveled off on you, and put him in a position to finally get off his butt and do something. Not to mention the one final, glaringly obvious thing....HIS WIFE DESERVES TO KNOW THE TRUTH. Good luck friend.
Author kkat Posted March 14, 2005 Author Posted March 14, 2005 Thank you so much for your post Owl. I have no idea what is happening. He went on vacation a week ago (his wife is with him, big shock) and called me the first day, then sent me some lame text messages the next two days, basically saying he still wanted to talk this through but thought we needed a little break to come to the discussion with new ideas. Ha ha. I sent him a very angry text back saying that was crap, his "break" was conveniently timed for him (like everything) with his vacation, and that I had had it. I subsequently broke down and left him a voicemail, but I never heard back from him. I think it's possible he told her because my message was very angry, very out of character for me in some ways, and very "that's it" - he might have been afraid enough that he told her. Or, he's just going to exit my life forever, and perhaps pretend he told her. I'm struggling with the addictiveness of this.
MsMree Posted March 14, 2005 Posted March 14, 2005 but it is just that - an addiction. Every addiction that i know of is not good for you - unless you are addicted to eating vegetables. It just really seems that in the scheme of OW unhealthy relationships that this one may take-the-cake. AND YOU DON'T DESERVE IT!!!
Author kkat Posted March 14, 2005 Author Posted March 14, 2005 Curious -- why do you say this one might take the cake? Do you mean because of how long it is taking me and how little progress I am making? Because that's how I feel. I see other people moving on and making progress in situations that are very difficult. I feel selfish and whiney to even be posting anymore. Anyway is that what you meant or if not what did you mean MsM?
MsMree Posted March 14, 2005 Posted March 14, 2005 Hey, all MM's are controll'g - he seems to be the "mostest" - DO NOT STOP POSTING!!! When i am most tired of myself that is when i make changes that are necessary (unfortunately for me, that takes too long for me to get there )
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