Judging a person for success?

[IndianBabu]

Even if you added all of the pros and cons together, some people would still come out ahead of others.

 

Reading your posts in this thread gives off the vibe that you're a little smug about having achieved a MA and owning a car/house.

 

While admirable, none of these are terribly hard to achieve and it does not make you inherently "better" than somebody who doesn't have those things. I do think it is a juvenile way of looking at people.

 

I am in my late 20s. I have none of the things you've listed. I rent a small apartment and I have a rusty bicycle that I use to commute. Does that make you a better person than me?

[carhill]

I am in my late 20s. I have none of the things you've listed. I rent a small apartment and I have a rusty bicycle that I use to commute. Does that make you a better person than me?

 

In practice, the way it works, and I faced it a lot in my 20's-30's, was that women 'qualified' me based on what they perceived about my blue collar business and lack of professional prospects and lack of a college degree and considered me to be in a different league and not one which was compatible with their own. In my demographic, and first being introduced to it in private school, indeed they may have felt they were 'better', in a 'higher' socio-economic strata and indeed they were, many of whom had families who were the known people in the community. Me, I was just some guy who got his hands greasy every day working on stuff and got his kicks in a race car on the weekend. Not exactly someone to bring home to dad. That's just how it was. In any event, whatever label was attached, the differences were sufficient as to be irreconcilable. Today, they use the word 'incompatible' a lot. I didn't know that word back then. Unfortunately, I wasn't socialized to see people as 'better' or 'worse' so most of my education came from harsh experience by asking out women I liked and getting the results.

 

I still see it everyday in my demographic when interacting with women in my age group, even though I've been married and have no real interest in women anymore. They're still sizing me up based on the metrics of our demographic. Now it revolves more around retirement. Not retired yet? When are you going to retire? Etc, etc.

 

The OP, like the vast majority of women I've interacted with, has his standards for a partner and, without sufficient impetus to depart from them (important!), women not meeting them need not apply for the pleasure, and value, of his presence. Perhaps that sounds a bit mean and unfair but life is like that!

[IndianBabu]

The OP, like the vast majority of women I've interacted with, has his standards for a partner and, without sufficient impetus to depart from them (important!), women not meeting them need not apply for the pleasure, and value, of his presence. Perhaps that sounds a bit mean and unfair but life is like that!

 

I think thats a sad way to go through life. Some of the most interesting people I have had the pleasure of knowing were not college educated, or employed in some high paying field. People who think of themselves as being high and mighty for going to college need a reality check.

[Phoe]

I'd say it's fine to prefer a partner who is similar to you on a career and professional level, but to imply that you are inherently "better than" those who are not at that same level as you, is pretty lousy.

 

I don't care about your car and house and MA. I care about what kind of values you have. And if all you care about is materialistic items and status totem pole markers, then your values would not align with mine.

 

Just be careful, OP, that you don't put too much emphasis on the things that don't matter in the long run.

[carhill]

I think thats a sad way to go through life. Some of the most interesting people I have had the pleasure of knowing were not college educated, or employed in some high paying field. People who think of themselves as being high and mighty for going to college need a reality check.

We certainly are entitled to our opinions but 55 in the same demographic and running into the same folks decade after decade has taught me that opinion is varied and sundry and socio-economic strata do exist. In their world, people like me are considered 'worker class', even if we're millionaires in our own right by the sweat of our own brow. It's just how things work. Like was mentioned upthread, some people are better than others. One can find out by interaction or one can accept the class distinctions and move on. I sometimes get a pass for social interaction because I have the right pedigree and, as my exW opined, 'a white collar mind'. It's the coveralls or the work truck which usually gives things away.

 

Reading this thread, it just occurred to me that I never had a serious relationship outside my 'class', including my M, except with women from different countries, where such distinctions weren't apparently as important. Hmm.... perhaps that's support for such dynamics being more individual than generalized.

 

In another thread, one reads evidence of this dynamic where a member is chided for being 'jobless' and not having a clear prospect of where he's going with his life, even with that apparently important college degree that I never finished getting. These aspects are apparently important to the perception of the person who he is. Is he being 'judged'? Readers can decide, much like they're deciding here about this OP and his standards for a dating partner.

 

If I can muster a demonstrable emotion about it, I'll report it. As it is, such standards and successes and judgments are outside of my control so I don't worry about it anymore. One life is plenty for this oldster to live. I'll leave others to theirs.

[Leigh 87]

Lol.

 

Maybe the OP should walk a mile in the shoes of recent college grads in the US and UK, and more recently, Australia (for certain degrees).

 

I have heard of PLENTY of bright minds go to waste - MANY pharmacy grads in Australia never find related work in their field and are forced into a life of retail sales at a low salary, lower than being a shelf stacker at a food mart.

 

I bet the OP wouldn't necessarily fare too well if he graduated NOW, and in one of the fields where grads simply cannot find a job and are forced into a life of poverty.

 

There are new graduates who graduate each year and never get a job in their field, and are stuck working in cafes or retail their entire lives, and if they are lucky, work their way up into management for a slightly higher yet still crappy pay (for the 60 hour weeks they do with loads of unpaid overtime).

[Million.to.1]

As OwMyEyeball is pointing out, your whole "better/worse" thing makes no sense at all OP.

 

Let's look at this one for example.

 

I have a rusty bicycle that I use to commute. Does that make you a better person than me?

 

It's not a faster mode of transport than your car, therefore it's worse.

It doesn't use petrol, is carbon neutral, good for the environment and therefore better than your car.

If it's raining it has no roof like a car so therfore is worse

It makes the owner/user fit which a car does not, which makes it better

It's free to run and cheap to buy where cars cost everytime you use them and are expensive to maintain so again, it's better.

Car requires parking, bike only needs a lamp post. better

 

We could go round in circles like this forever.

[thefooloftheyear]

I didnt read the whole thread and I am sorry if I am echoing someone else's sentiments, but here is how I see it...

 

For younger folks its less of an issue...

 

As you age, people on both sides are likely going to be judgemental and want to know that you have acomplished something in your life..

 

A good friend of mine is 55 years old...His wife died of cancer around 10 years ago..He has a low level type of job, but isnt a professional..He has a modest house and old cars, but is pretty much cash poor at this time..

 

He has been trying to get a girlfriend for some years now, to no avail..He isnt stunningly attractive or anything...but not too bad..Seems like every woman he meets judges him because he doesnt have enough or make enough money....He says even the ones that were pretty broke themselves or had limited options were critical in this area..

 

I dunno.....People judge....I think the only way you can get around this is if your attractiveness physically is at the top of the pack.. because no matter who you are or what you did/have, you are going to find some takers..

 

TFY

[IndianBabu]

As OwMyEyeball is pointing out, your whole "better/worse" thing makes no sense at all OP.

 

 

Car requires parking, bike only needs a lamp post. better

 

 

Theft of my bicycle is never a concern! Couldn't pay someone to steal it.

[2.50 a gallon]

My college career was a disaster. I knew I loved history but nobody could point me down the right path. Add to it we were in the midst of the Viet Nam war with the draft board just looking for any variance to find a way to take away your student status and send you off to boot camp.

Right in the middle of a semester I would get drafted, party then find out that my status had been reapproved. I was drafted 4 different times, the last time I showed up with an X-ray of my ulcer. In those four years I had just began my junior year, when the company I was working for offered me a apprenticeship in working with machines, but I had to drop out of college.

 

A dozen years later, I marry and move across county, the marriage fails rather quickly. One day while driving past Stanford, I had never visited the campus so decided to take a closer look. Actually the perv in me wanted to check out that years crop of coeds. A sudden heavy rain storm caught me a good half mile away from my car so I ducked into a building which turned out to be the graduate library. While awaiting the rain to abate, I found an old book to read. Luck was with me that day as not more than 15 minutes later, I find the answer to a question that has puzzled historians since the turn of the century. A few pages later another answer. That is what I had been looking for when I was going to college.

 

For the past 30 plus years I have been into historical research, and as luck will have it somehow I have a knack for finding things that other have over looked. I have published some of my findings, and in so doing have made many new friends, many of them university professors. Many a time I have been contacted by them to pick my brain as to what I know about his or that subject.

I never made the big bucks, But I am more than successful

Edited September 14, 2014 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
Paragraphs

[DazedandConfused8]

No decent woman is going to date a man who looks down on people who are less intelligent and/or who fail to launch a successful career by a certain age.

 

Some judgmental successful ladies who are stuck up and elitists may entertain a person like you. But no genuinely sweet woman is going to go for your sort of attitude

 

Perhaps I just have a realistic and logical view of the world (and I agree that this turns some people off), but this idea that only "sweet" women would be interested in me in ridiculous. I'm not the only person in the world who recognizes that some people are better than others.

[DazedandConfused8]

I am in my late 20s. I have none of the things you've listed. I rent a small apartment and I have a rusty bicycle that I use to commute. Does that make you a better person than me?

 

That depends. Do you bike to work by choice (i.e. because you live 5 minutes away and it's cleaner than driving a car that distance) or because you can't afford it?

 

When are you planning on buying a house/condo/townhouse?

 

What do you do for work?

 

When did you finish school?

[DazedandConfused8]

I'd say it's fine to prefer a partner who is similar to you on a career and professional level, but to imply that you are inherently "better than" those who are not at that same level as you, is pretty lousy.

 

I don't care about your car and house and MA. I care about what kind of values you have. And if all you care about is materialistic items and status totem pole markers, then your values would not align with mine.

 

I think this is what's important and what was alluded to early on in the thread. I view those things as utilities that help me where I am today; the passion, work, and dedication put into achieving those things is what's (just as) important as what they actually are. I hope that helps.

[DazedandConfused8]

I bet the OP wouldn't necessarily fare too well if he graduated NOW, and in one of the fields where grads simply cannot find a job and are forced into a life of poverty.

 

1. I am graduating now and I already have employment in my field.

 

2. Why would I take a degree where I couldn't be employed?

 

This is beginning to feel more like a personal attack than a productive, informative thread...

[Nextlane]

I was diagnosed at a young age with dyslexia to which I had a lot of trouble reading and writing (never read a book until I was in my early 20s). I basically gave up trying in high school because I actually thought I was dumb as rocks and graduated with a failing grade.

 

I ended up working a lot crappy jobs soon after to figure my purpose in life such as kitchenhand, luggage handler, telecommunication, cashier. I've always had a solid work ethic and knew I was a clever person, but just hated the fact that society perceived those with a qualifications as being intelligent.

 

I was very lucky to land a corporate role at 19 and worked extremely hard (thankful they didn't ask for my high school results). This opportunity allowed me to find my purpose in life and I decided to study again.

 

To cut a long story short, I was able to graduated with a degree at 25 with years of work experience to top that. I'm currently employed at a pretty prestigious accounting firm serving clients who earn anywhere from 6 to 8 income a year, as well as running my own a side business.

 

I can understand your frustration of finding someone who has hustled as hard as you have at your age, however I believe you should choose a partner based on their attitude towards life.

[Mr Scorpio]

This is beginning to feel more like a personal attack than a productive, informative thread...

 

I don't think anyone is going to tell you that you shouldn't use success as a criteria for a partner if that is what is important to you.

 

At the same time, you didn't exactly ingratiate yourself in your opening post. Walk into a bar (not a club), read your opening paragraph out loud and see what response you get.

 

In other words, you might want to consider not using that sort of language in a OLD profile. It could be a turn-off to some people.

[OwMyEyeball]

1. I am graduating now and I already have employment in my field.

 

2. Why would I take a degree where I couldn't be employed?

 

This is beginning to feel more like a personal attack than a productive, informative thread...

OP - Expect to get flak when you put out on a public forum that "Some people are better than others" without expanding on what you mean. More worthy of life? Better at performing specific tasks in defined scenarios?

 

It's a bold statement that, depending on what the contextual "good"

is, will be especially insulting to those who see themselves or loved ones in the "others" category. Maybe there's misinterpretation of intended meaning, but that's guaranteed to occur when those kinds of blanket statements are rolled out.

[Leigh 87]

1. I am graduating now and I already have employment in my field.

 

2. Why would I take a degree where I couldn't be employed?

 

This is beginning to feel more like a personal attack than a productive, informative thread...

 

 

 

Personally, I think my pharmacy grad and my veterinary science/doctor or veterinary medicine friend are just as clever and ambitious as you are.

 

Unfortunately they cannot find employment despite receiving stellar grades in demanding degrees. They knew it was a tough market to get into in Australia but they were told that " hard work and passion will win in the end". The university told them " come on now, you can still find work in the field". They are mid 20's. One of them lives at home.... The other shares a one bedroom apartment with two other flat mates who sleep on the floor. They have been looking for café, restaurant and retail work but cannot find work since they only did career related work experience during their degrees. In Aus you need experience or to be a natural even for food serving roles. You need experience for most entry level roles in retail or administration because THOUSANDS of people apply for the roles.

 

One of them is a girl, the vet grad, she is very attractive and honestly she is a walking encyclopaedia!

 

I just don't understand your thought processes, for instance:

 

- if you met my friend, nearly every guy think she is drop dead gorgeous

- she is highly intelligent and you would clearly be impressed by how well spoken and nice she seemed

- as soon as you find out she didn't have a car, house or job, you would lose respect for her, even though she presents herself as a completely beautiful and intelligent woman?

 

I take great offence to you calling my friends beneath you. Are you calling people who study pharmacy and get their doctor of veterinary medicine UN MOTIVATED and not goal orientated:lmao:

 

You also stated that: the house, car and lack of a stimulating and successful job are measures of a persons worth. Well listen here! There are LOADS of people, some of which are smarter than you, who CANNOT find employment, afford a car or house, or much else!Some truly bright people suffer financial hardships! Peoples kids get ill and they may have to afford highly expensive treatment. People get made redundant. People go through nasty divorces that leave them near penniless.

 

Are you REALLY callous enough to actually think these people are unambitious losers for being without a house and a car?

 

Perhaps you think you are immune to ever experiencing a financial hardship whereby you may not afford a mortgage or to run a car?

Edited September 14, 2014 by Leigh 87

[DazedandConfused8]

as soon as you find out she didn't have a car, house or job, you would lose respect for her, even though she presents herself as a completely beautiful and intelligent woman?

 

Where did I say that?

 

I take great offence to you calling my friends beneath you. Are you calling people who study pharmacy and get their doctor of veterinary medicine UN MOTIVATED and not goal orientated:lmao:

 

I never said your friends were beneath me.

[2.50 a gallon]

During my life time I have known many very successful people. The odd thing is that most of them are very unhappy. It is like they never reach a plateau where they can say I've got enough. They always want more

 

An example would be my best friend in college. I was best man at his wedding. In his garage once saw the likes of a Lamborghini and a Ferrari. He liked to brag and thump his chest on how he did this, hard work etc. He never recognizes that his parents totally paid for his college education. He never had to work odd jobs to help pay the bills. And when it came time for his younger sisters to go to college, his parents would not even help them with their tuition.

 

His wife, did take some college classes, but quit, when they started having babies. In order to help pay the bills, she started and successfully ran a child care business, that brought in lots of money. She kept it up even after their kids started school. It was about that time she started begging him to back off from his 12 and 14 hour days, to spend time with her and the kids. But he was just closing in on his first million. And then he made more. Vacations, were for him, he took her fishing in Alaska, golfing in Hawaii, you get the picture. She wanted to go the Paris, but they never made it is was always for him.

 

When they got the last kid into college, she filed for divorce. She was no longer in love with him and there was no getting her back. She got half of everything they had. Bought herself a new home, and eventually found a new man who was more than glad to help her spend her money in Paris and Venice.

 

He is now a very rich but very lonely man

Edited September 14, 2014 by 2.50 a gallon

[ascendotum]

During my life time I have known many very successful people. The odd thing is that most of them are very unhappy....... She got half of everything they had. Bought herself a new home, and eventually found a new man who was more than glad to help her spend her money in Paris and Venice.

 

This scenario plays out a lot. Many guys are too driven and it can become their No.1 goal in life rather a means to achieve happiness. The status & brand name goods define them, and their family take a back seat. What happened to your ferrari friend happens to a lot of guys. All that work and devotion to their career and their wife walks off with half of it and actually gets to enjoy the fruits of his labour more. The guys are often left devastated but many wont necessarily be lonely like your friend.

[newmoon]

I think thats a sad way to go through life. Some of the most interesting people I have had the pleasure of knowing were not college educated, or employed in some high paying field. People who think of themselves as being high and mighty for going to college need a reality check.

 

i don't think the OP is dissing the influence of others in general, just stating he doesn't want to date those that aren't at his own level. we will all meet people from various walks of life that impact us, it doesn't mean you want to date them.

 

i don't see a problem with the OP and his desires. heck, i would love to meet a guy that motivated and driven. i have an ambition to be one half of the richest couple in the world. some people aspire to stuff like that. it doesn't mean we're bad people :-)

[IndianBabu]

i don't think the OP is dissing the influence of others in general, just stating he doesn't want to date those that aren't at his own level. we will all meet people from various walks of life that impact us, it doesn't mean you want to date them.

 

i don't see a problem with the OP and his desires. heck, i would love to meet a guy that motivated and driven. i have an ambition to be one half of the richest couple in the world. some people aspire to stuff like that. it doesn't mean we're bad people :-)

 

OP repeatedly states that "some people are better than others." Who they date is entirely up to them. It can be anyone he see's fit.

 

Its the elitist attitude that comes off as being immature.

 

Most people have aspirations, dreams, goals. Not just ones with degrees

[Leigh 87]

Where did I say that?

 

 

 

I never said your friends were beneath me.

 

 

You said that you wouldn't date a woman who didn't have their own car, house or a job that earns a decent enough income to be comfortable.

 

That is FINE - if it is attributed to you wanting a partner who can keep up with you FINANCIALLY. It is perfectly understandable to want a partner who can pay their bills and who isn't living in a real dump, when you are out earning a decent wage.

 

You SHOULD NOT, however, assume they lack AMBITION and DRIVE, or INTELLIGENCE. I mean good God, get to KNOW a person before you decide that their lack of job and car/house= an unmotivated stoner type! My friends don't have houses, cars or jobs. They are Vet and Pharmacy grads that cannot even get a job in retail or hospitality. As for me, I don't even have a degree and I am looking for work while I await my degree.

 

I am not sure why you feel that you couldn't see eye to eye with people " like us", and be able to date women like my friends, who are attractive and intelligent. The Pharmacy grad is a male and he is very cute and gets a lot of attractive girlfriends. His current girlfriend is a regional manager for a leading fashion chain and she gets upwards of 80K per year which is average but still enough to be comfortable.

She adores my unemployed pharmacy friend. Heck, the Pharmacy dude even helps her put together presentations and calculates better ways for her to run the business! Shock horror! An unemployed dude is actually not stupid or lazy! And, gosh, he even has a degree!

 

I mean, is it because you think you would want to talk about more "intelligent" topics that we "unemployed folks" couldn't keep up with?

Is it because you would worry that we wouldn't act or dress middle to upper class?

OR, is it purely because you wouldn't trust us to get our acts together and earn a decent wage ever?

 

If it is about money, then well, if you met a woman who was gorgeous and you were nuts about her, I can nearly guarantee that money wouldn't be an issue.

I have a fairly good understanding of men. If a man goes on a date with a person that knocks their socks off, they are not going to decline a second date if they are without a home, car and or job. Obviously, the lady blew him away with her beauty and intellect without possessing the car and house.........

 

 

 

 

 

I had a wealthy man fall in love with me last year and who I really liked a whole lot.

 

He didn't care that I didn't have a job or car - he could see I was studying something, reading, actively researching which college education would best suit me and most likely lead to a job.

 

I mean, it is not like he was talking about things and mixing in circles where I couldn't keep up?

[Leigh 87]

1. I am graduating now and I already have employment in my field.

 

Good for you. Some people are not so lucky. Both my highly intellectual friends had internships, impressed their bosses and yet the companies couldn't afford to put new staff on and they actually USED interns because they got free labour out of it.

 

2. Why would I take a degree where I couldn't be employed?

 

Because the job market chances mid degree and some people are too busy studying every waking moment, to bother reading about the latest trends and employment outlooks for their prospective careers.

 

OR, they are in too much debt to change their degrees and the government will not fund more than one degree, and even with credit transfers (Into say, physiotherapy) they would need to do a further two years on top of their original degrees...... On their dime, no loans would be issued.

 

My pharmacy and vet science grad friends knew people who graduated and all got jobs four - 6 years ago, when they first considered their degrees.

 

Since then our job market is down the toilet, I don't care for people who say " you can get a job in this economy for sure if you are bright and eager"

 

Their degrees now churn through more grads than there are jobs available unfortunately so many grads including my friends, are out of work and cannot even find entry level jobs.

 

The minority of pharmacy grads who got a job as pharmacist were on 23 per hour, which in Aus, is the same money a bar tender, waitress and retail worker make.........

 

This is beginning to feel more like a personal attack than a productive, informative thread...

 

You said people without jobs, cars or houses were less driven than you and had less going for them.

 

If you were " all that", you would be well read and you would know that yes, plenty of intelligent and respectable people are NOT getting jobs. It is beyond tough out there.

 

The people who get jobs don't understand the struggles of people who lose jobs and cannot get employment again, sometimes for years.