Called him out for not paying for dinner on first date

[isisisweeping]

On one hand, don't offer to pay if it's that big of an issue.

 

On the other hand, I always offer. I only INSIST on paying my half if I know or suspect I won't see him again.

And while I won't hold it against a guy if he doesn't pay (ie if I liked him I'll still go out again), him insisting and paying the check does give him bonus points. It just seems more interested/invested/charming.

 

After date one, taking turns paying doesn't bother me in the slightest but going dutch totally turns me off. I've tried to get over it but it's like an immediate reaction. Bill is split and my brain starts going friend friend friend not sexy sexy sexy.

 

In my relationships, and even most my friendships with guys, they tend to pay when we're out and I tend to cook dinner and surprise them when I can (ie, prepurchasing movie tickets)

Edited September 9, 2014 by isisisweeping

[KatZee]

I met up with a guy I met from OLD just this past weekend.

 

We had drinks at the bar, and then dinner. When we were having drinks I offered to help pay, and he gave me a look that said, "are you crazy?"

 

After we ate, the check came and he picked it right up. He went: "what was up with you offering to pay earlier?"

 

I responded: "I always offer, it's the right thing to do."

 

He said: "I asked you out. I pay. If a guy ever takes money from you he's cheap. And if he's cheap on a first date, he's going to be cheap always."

 

I think that sums it up completely. I will always offer, yes. But if a guy takes money from me on a date that he initiated and invited me on, he will not be getting a second date. He wouldn't have even gotten that text message you sent him. You don't know him from a hole in the wall, what exactly do you think he needs to be "made aware of?"

 

To be honest, I think you wasted your breath having to point that out.

[somedude81]

I met up with a guy I met from OLD just this past weekend.

 

We had drinks at the bar, and then dinner. When we were having drinks I offered to help pay, and he gave me a look that said, "are you crazy?"

 

After we ate, the check came and he picked it right up. He went: "what was up with you offering to pay earlier?"

 

I responded: "I always offer, it's the right thing to do."

 

He said: "I asked you out. I pay. If a guy ever takes money from you he's cheap. And if he's cheap on a first date, he's going to be cheap always."

 

I think that sums it up completely. I will always offer, yes. But if a guy takes money from me on a date that he initiated and invited me on, he will not be getting a second date. He wouldn't have even gotten that text message you sent him. You don't know him from a hole in the wall, what exactly do you think he needs to be "made aware of?"

 

To be honest, I think you wasted your breath having to point that out.

 

That guy sounds really rigid and controlling.

 

Good luck with him

[HeartDesires]

I've met other men who would sooner have erectile dysfunction than be seen letting a woman pay the tab

 

......best laugh I've had all day - thanks!

[KatZee]

That guy sounds really rigid and controlling.

 

Good luck with him

 

TOTALLY rigid and controlling.

 

Don't you just hate those chivalrous guys who insist on paying for a first date?! UGH! No wonder I'm still single!

 

:rolleyes:

[Diezel]

And this is why dating women is sometimes a Kobayashi Maru scenario.

 

I've had women who I've opened doors for who responded, "I can open my own door."

 

I've had women who I've offered to take the tab from, respond, "I can pay my half."

 

Honestly, if someone offered to pay and then later sent me a text saying she was upset I allowed to take her up on her offer, I wouldn't want to see her again. That's game playing. So when do I believe her to be genuine in her offers or anything else? Is there always going to be an ulterior motive then? Already, off on the wrong foot.

 

So this guy has to move forward wondering when he should or shouldn't pay, after this. Too much effort, I'd advise him to next you if he posted here.

[mightycpa]

Of course, in the Kobayashi Maru scenario, the TEST is the real problem.

 

Just like here.

[Els]

On the other hand, I always offer. I only INSIST on paying my half if I know or suspect I won't see him again.

And while I won't hold it against a guy if he doesn't pay (ie if I liked him I'll still go out again), him insisting and paying the check does give him bonus points. It just seems more interested/invested/charming.

 

After date one, taking turns paying doesn't bother me in the slightest but going dutch totally turns me off. I've tried to get over it but it's like an immediate reaction. Bill is split and my brain starts going friend friend friend not sexy sexy sexy.

 

Yep, agreed completely. IMO if a couple wants to split expenses 50/50, taking turns paying is much more date-like than going dutch - splitting bills right down the middle is what friends do in my view. Heck not even friends, more like acquaintances...

[mightycpa]

I can't imagine how you ladies would respond if a guy wrote a post about going on a date, his date offered to split the bill, and he has a rule that if a woman does that, it must mean she's a raving feminist who is uninterested in chivalry, so he told her he has no interest in seeing her again.

 

I think most of you would opine that his shorts were twisted a couple of turns too tight.

 

As would I. It just seems so petty. It might be a flag, but then again, it might not.

[GravityMan]

I feel a little bit sorry for that guy the OP's referring to. He got played and suckered by a young woman (the OP) who likes to play games and administer tests. And then on top of that...the OP blatantly calling him out is like twisting the knife.

 

He's a bit of a sissy by apologizing, but he's presumably young...early 20s I guess. Hopefully he'll take this as a learning experience (both in his own conduct/confidence and in being more selective on who to date) and grow mentally stronger instead of becoming bitter towards women. The mating dance often includes a decent amount of indirection, subtleties and innuendo, and he'll have to learn how to navigate the waters better.

 

The OP on the other hand is immature. It's fine to be turned off by his decision, but calling him out on not paying was inconsiderate. She should have just let him down easy and moved on.

[jay1983]

I hope he's making a thread somewhere like this:

 

I went out with this girl, she was cool and we got along well. We went to diner and when the check came she offered to pay her share. I was very impressed and thought I found a rare gem. Then she sends me a texts saying she didn't like that I let her pay. WTH is this girl psycho?

[Els]

I can't imagine how you ladies would respond if a guy wrote a post about going on a date, his date offered to split the bill, and he has a rule that if a woman does that, it must mean she's a raving feminist who is uninterested in chivalry, so he told her he has no interest in seeing her again.

 

I think most of you would opine that his shorts were twisted a couple of turns too tight.

 

As would I. It just seems so petty. It might be a flag, but then again, it might not.

 

Most of us have in fact told the OP that her text to him was immature, petty, and completely uncalled for.

[mightycpa]

Most of us have in fact told the OP that her text to him was immature, petty, and completely uncalled for.

 

Of course, not all of you. My apologies for my imprecision.

[aprilisi]

What a man spends on me doesn't matter, but if he asks me out he pays. After that, I will offer to split. Or buy drinks if he pays for a meal. Or buy popcorn if he buys tickets.

 

My deal breaker is courtesy, how he treats others, not just me. If he doesn't hold a door open for me or offer to walk me to my car on a dark night, I normally wouldn't see him again.

 

Once went out with a guy who ran over a kitten. On a clear day, no cars coming. I know he saw it and he had no reaction, except for sighing and rolling his eyes when I insisted he stop so I could check on it.

 

Courtesy and kindness matter. Many men have not learned this yet

[doeblin]

Dating as we know it -- two strangers meeting in public for a coffee or a meal in order to develop a romantic interest -- is a mid 20th century thing, and back in the day women had considerably less money than men, therefore men paid for dinner. Since many of the people dating in the 50s and 60s are still alive, this convention is still with us in our culture.

 

I don't want to sound pedantic, I know many of you are well aware of this, but keep this history in mind when you're confusing this with chivalry and masculinity.

 

I wouldn't be strict about splitting on the first date, but c'mon it's 2014, why are you so strict about NOT splitting?

 

But then again, I think first dates should be very casual, more free-flowing than a serious dinner in a serious restaurant. That's for 3rd or 4th dates.

 

 

ps.: oh and the "If HE asks me out, HE pays" is a lame argument, since 99% of the ladies are waiting for the guy to ask them out in the first place, even if she really likes him.

Edited September 9, 2014 by doeblin

[OwMyEyeball]

I think I'll just rock-paper-scissors my next date to determine who's paying

 

Best 2 out of 3, of course

[rester]

Interesting to hear all these different perspectives. In my opinion (male point of view), it's common courtesy and polite for a woman to offer to help pay for dinner, even when it's a charade and everyone knows it. If the offer isn't made I start to question her motives. And I think it's a perfectly reasonable expectation that the guy responds by saying, "no, I got this."

 

I always thought this was the way things were. It was just what people did.

 

If I were in the OP's position, my first reaction would be to question whether this guy was stingy or socially inept.

 

I haven't the slightest idea what the guy thinks he has to gain by not paying for his date. What good is going to come out of that?

 

What wasn't cool, was the insulting text and getting bent out of shape about it. You already feel that he is a loser of sorts because he let you pay, but then you go so far as to tell him that you think he's a loser (in a sense) over TEXT. That's insulting.

[SJC2008]

This topic again. The man pays for the first date. Women, if you offer, don't be shocked when the man accepts because I would in a heartbeat. Nothing is less natural than a gesture to "look good" when it wasn't your true intention.

[rester]

This topic again. The man pays for the first date. Women, if you offer, don't be shocked when the man accepts because I would in a heartbeat. Nothing is less natural than a gesture to "look good" when it wasn't your true intention.

 

I'm genuinely curious what the motivation is to accept the offer. What good will come of that? A few extra dollars in the pockets?

[GemmaUK]

Okay folks so I posted a thread a bit ago about a guy I met up with at the Starbucks who I met online who didn't open my door or pay for my 3 dollar coffee! Now this gentlemen decided to ask me out again and I agreed just to see how he would treat me during an actual date. I made a pact with myself that if he wasn't chivalrous enough and didn't treat me as though I felt I needed to be treated I was not going to see him again.

 

Now the date actually went really well in the beginning, we walked around downtown and he showed me his local downtown. Now I drove 30 minutes out of my way to go see him at his town for our date. We ended up eating at this restaurant and had good, light conversation and had a few things in common. When the waitress dropped the check I asked him if he would like me to help with the bill (just to be nice, not expecting he would say yes) and what do you know...he says "oh sure" GRR

 

To say I was turned off is an understatement. Now I am in no way a gold digger and was fully prepared to help pay for dinner, but it's the mere fact that this guy is trying to court me and take me out and he is not trying whatsoever to impress me when it came to this. So fast forward a few hours later I was at home and he texted me saying he had a great time with me and wanted to take me out again. I decided I was going to call him out on our date. This is what I said to him:

 

Hey! I had a great time with you as well! I have to be honest with you though, it took me by surprise that you actually let me help pay for dinner. I'm all for helping out and being courteous but it was really disappointing that you didn't feel as though you needed to be chivalrous enough to take care of it on our first date. I really enjoy talking to you and had a great time, but it's something I need you to be aware of.

 

Much to my surprise he actually sent back a really long message apologizing and saying he really is a man of respect and chivalrousness. He said he would definitely be paying for the next dinner and basically said from the bottom of his heart he is truly sorry. He said he didn't know if it was considered a date in terms of terminology. Which seems bogus cause we met on a dating sight?!

 

The question is should I see this guy again? He wants to take me out on Saturday but if it's starting out like this I have a bad feeling about it.

 

Aside from the gender war and who should do what I don't understand why you are thinking of seeing him again.

 

In your view he has already de-valued you by not holding a door, not buying a coffee, making you travel 30 mins and then not paying for your food.

 

You only went on the date to see how he would treat you as you weren't happy the first time so why bother with a third date oreven thinking about it?

 

You've got no respect for him from the off and haven't taken any responsibility for your own part of this - you could have suggested he come to you or you meet halfway, you could have communicated that you hoped he would pay for dinner. 'Hey, dinner on you, that's very thoughtful, I would love to go'........and he would have had a clue as to what you expected.

 

Even at dinner you could have even just made a light joke about paying and he could then have decided whether to pay or split the bill.

He isn't a mind reader. Some women prefer to split the bill and some don't, if you are one that does prefer this you need to communicate it

 

You are a grown woman, able to speak and communicate, part of being a woman is to stick up for yourself (but not by sending a 'much later than it all happened' passive aggressive text).

 

You didn't even stick to your own pact with yourself.

 

If you actually like a guy then give him a heads up as to you liking a man to pay for a first date. This will save a lot of drama, the guy will know what to expect so can make the choice whether to go ahead and go on the date or not and this issue will become a non issue.

[guest569]

Most men have paid for my date but in your case you offered and he accepted. Maybe he is struggling financially and I think your attitude is selfish, to complain to him afterwards about it is just embarrassing. If you expect him to pay and thats a deal breaker, move on.

 

a guy asked me out for a drink (first time meeting from online) and started without me (i was waiting outside, he was in having a beer without me) then made me go up and buy my own drink. I found that really awkward and rude. I didnt tell him that though. Thats how he does things, fine. Not seeing him again

[Els]

Dating as we know it -- two strangers meeting in public for a coffee or a meal in order to develop a romantic interest -- is a mid 20th century thing, and back in the day women had considerably less money than men, therefore men paid for dinner. Since many of the people dating in the 50s and 60s are still alive, this convention is still with us in our culture.

 

I don't want to sound pedantic, I know many of you are well aware of this, but keep this history in mind when you're confusing this with chivalry and masculinity.

 

I wouldn't be strict about splitting on the first date, but c'mon it's 2014, why are you so strict about NOT splitting?

 

But then again, I think first dates should be very casual, more free-flowing than a serious dinner in a serious restaurant. That's for 3rd or 4th dates.

 

 

ps.: oh and the "If HE asks me out, HE pays" is a lame argument, since 99% of the ladies are waiting for the guy to ask them out in the first place, even if she really likes him.

 

Attraction does not really conform to modernity, at least not so quickly. I mean, this argument is like asking, why are some men attracted to the hourglass figure in women? Science has made huge strides in fertility treatment, women don't need the hourglass figure to have children and give birth successfully anymore, and some men who desire the hourglass figure don't even want children anyway. But yet, it's 2014, and many of the men in 2014 are still attracted to many of the same things that the men in 1914 were. Such is life.

 

The same goes for chivalry, paying for dates, etc. Sure it's 2014, but some women are still attracted to it and that is their right. You don't HAVE to do it if you don't want to (and obviously, the entitlement mentality of the OP just plain stinks). There will be compatible women who prefer going dutch, just as how there are men who like overweight or stick-thin women. But people don't need to defend or be shamed for what they are attracted to.

[Pompom]

Really? You went dramatic over a door and three bucks? Wow. You know, maybe he respected you enough to not assume you needed to be taken care of. Women, after all, are perfectly capable of doing this themselves and no self-respecting woman dates/keeps a man just so he can do the things she can't or won't.

Personally I don't even feel right about not paying my share. If he offers, cool, but if not, he probably works harder for his money than I do for mine, so..? And doors? Seriously? Doors?? If you keep resentment over these ridiculous things to the point you'll call him out on it later, I must compliment him on his tolerance. You know what deserves a text of criticism? Dumping you at the bus stop instead of taking you home, hoping the last bus hasn't left, just because he doesn't want to gas up in the morning. Or telling you, after you just had sex for the first time, whom he did just a few days earlier. Or standing you up. Not holding the door though... Wow.

[doeblin]

The same goes for chivalry, paying for dates, etc. Sure it's 2014, but some women are still attracted to it and that is their right. You don't HAVE to do it if you don't want to (and obviously, the entitlement mentality of the OP just plain stinks). There will be compatible women who prefer going dutch, just as how there are men who like overweight or stick-thin women. But people don't need to defend or be shamed for what they are attracted to.

 

No, I agree, I understand it's still a convention for a lot of people, it's part of their dating ritual etc. And no, people don't need to defend what they're attracted to, however they do have to defend if they equate "paying for the first date" with Masculinity in general, because it's less and less sensible.

 

Anyway this is getting theoretical, and we're slowly going off-topic.

 

At least we agree that the OP's trap and her passive-aggressive text were absurd.

[BeholdtheMan]

To OP:

 

When chivalry was alive, grown women were treated like helpless little girls, men were allowed to beat their wives, and there was no such thing as marital rape.

 

You don't want "chivalry". You want a guy to pay for your food as if he has to exchange money for the privilege of your company. If the guy was courteous and charming at dinner, that should be all the chivalry you need.

 

My response to you would've been...

 

"I thought your offer to chip in was a sincere gesture and not some mind-game. Good night."