Called him out for not paying for dinner on first date

[MissBee]

Hey Bluesgirl,

 

I'm not going to go on and on about entitlement because I actually don't think you're an entitled person and I find this to be a favorite term tossed around even when not truly descriptive of a situation.

 

People will always be split on the who pays issue and the way I see it is, some people are more traditional about it than others. If you are more traditional about it, I don't think you need to apologize or self-flagellate because of it. Own your preference and date men who see things similarly.

 

I do agree though that you should not have offered to pay if it wasn't your intention. I know you were hoping he'd refuse it and show he was a gentleman but he didn't so you were upset. But that put him in a weird position where maybe on his end he thought he would have offended you if he didn't accept. As others mentioned, perhaps he planned on paying but you didn't give him a chance. You already had coffee and he didn't pay, personally I would have just sat back and saw if he would this time instead of offering if I didn't mean it.

 

I don't think it was wrong that you messaged him, it's not like you cursed him out, and to me your message makes you seem like the type who is at least open with your feelings and will be truthful about if you're upset. I think that's a good trait to have versus being upset but letting it stew and henceforth being passive aggressive about it.

 

If you have a bad feeling don't see him again. But his apology seems genuine and it seemed like a misunderstanding so maybe give it one more shot and from here don't bother offering to pay unless you mean to. Although I could understand how after this the whole thing may seem a bit awkward and he may become more self conscious vs. having things flow naturally. So if such is the case, cut your losses and with your next dates, don't offer to pay unless you mean it and at least wait to see instead of assuming.

[OwMyEyeball]

Seems like a case of "date local, think global"

 

The behaviours men and women have been raised to expect are clashing with the broader analysis of their actions brought about by the fairly recent hyper-connectedness of cultures across the Internet.

 

People from across the world from hundreds of different sub-cultures, backgrounds, primary languages and experiences sharing with others what they believe is "appropriate". None are wrong, yet none are truly "right". Guys are confused. Gals are confused. Half-baked theories abound.

 

Dating in the modern era is absurd. Maybe it always has been.

[d0nnivain]

Offering to help pay & then being mad when the guy takes you up on the offer is disingenuous on your part. If you wanted him to pay you should not have offered. In essence you "tested him" which is a big no no to begin with.

 

To add insult to injury you then "called him" out via text. That in & of itself is cowardly & childish. He had more grace & class than you exhibited. He apologized & extended another invitation. Many men would have told you to F*** off.

 

Date him or don't. That's up to you. However, if he came on LS & posted his version of this date my advice to him would be to run for the hills.

[gaius]

Wow, now she's oppressed.

 

The key thing is: she disingenuously OFFERED to split, then she flipped out, because he thought she is for real.

If this ain't a sense of entitlement, I don't know what is.

 

This is ridiculous, really.

 

 

(Also, he shouldn't have apologized, and I wouldn't go out with her again after that letter.)

She is being oppressed, and it's mostly by other women. Something tells me you've never gotten a letter like that so you're just speculating. It's a good sign if a woman tries to fix a genuinely bad habit you have. And not paying for her meal is a bad habit. Letting her set the tone by accepting her offer to pay is also terrible.

 

Do the guys that refuse to pay out of dedication to equality only lick the area she pees from when giving oral? Only fair since that's where guys get it right? Or can you come to realize there are some fundamental differences between the sexes and they don't always derive pleasure from the same areas?

[mightycpa]

When a girl goes out on a first date with a guy we are not expecting to pay for ourselves. I think I speak for most women on this issue. This is not saying that we are gold diggers or just looking for a free meal, but it's the fact that when a guy asks US out on a date, we are not going to be the ones paying! If the roles were reversed and I was to ask him out then you can bet I would expect myself to pay for us. But in the normal dating scene it's the guys that ask the girls, therefore it's only common courtesy. IMO

 

I didn't read the whole thread, but the bottom line is that you set a trap. You wanted to know whether he'd pay for you or not, but rather than wait and see, you dangled an option in front of him.

 

He might have thought "Oh God, here's one of those girls who takes offense if I pay for everything. I'd better let her split the bill with me."

 

Then, like Lucy holding the football, you yank it away right before he kicks it. You actually blame him for taking your suggestion.

 

Tsk, tsk, tsk. You owe this guy an apology.

[bluesgirl]

Wow I totally got reamed on this thread! LOL Didn't think that would happen. I appreciate all of your comments and opinions, but no one knows the person I am just from a thread I posted. I understand I most likely set him up for failure, and I shouldn't have done that. But, no one is perfect and I am definitely not. Again, appreciate the comments!

[d0nnivain]

Well you took that graciously. That is a good sign.

 

I can sympathize with your disappointment. I like it when the guy pays & does the chivalrous things too but I don't punish them for not doing it. I just reward good behavior when they do the chivalrous things.

[preraph]

No way you pay for the first date unless you are the one who asked. Anyway, this was the second date and he didn't pay for the first one that was only $3 OR this one, so screw him. He's cheap and/or stupid.

[doeblin]

It's a good sign if a woman tries to fix a genuinely bad habit you have.

 

So I went out on a first date with this girl, and she is already trying to FIX my supposed bad habits?

What. The. Hell.

[slizl]

OP, I get where you are coming from, but you sound like a total nightmare

[OwMyEyeball]

No way you pay for the first date unless you are the one who asked. Anyway, this was the second date and he didn't pay for the first one that was only $3 OR this one, so screw him. He's cheap and/or stupid.

Or like legions of modern daters out there he's confused by what the rules are and is just trying to do what he thinks is right.

 

Putting this level of emphasis on such minor interactions really gives meaning to "can't see the forest for the trees"

 

When this level of nitpicking happens it's either the conscious being pushed to find fault by the sub-conscious, which has picked up on other flaws it doesn't like, or a great way to stay single.

[snowflakes88]

If you didn't really want to chip in, you shouldn't have offered. Games/tests like this are a 100% turn-off in my book, and this comes from a woman.

[FitChick]

You didn't let it naturally play out. For all you know he would have paid.

It's almost like entrapment. If, on the other hand, he pulled out a calculator and said, "You had the salad, I had the soup, your entree was X dollars, I didn't have dessert," etc. that would be different. In that case I'd have said I was looking for a romantic partner and not a buddy.

 

I say date him and see if he learned from what you said. If yes, then you know he is teachable and willing to please.

[BluEyeL]

I had a first date once and I sincerely offered and insisted to pay. Because I really didn't like him and knew it wasn't going to be a second date. I couldn't get a word in and the entire time he bashed his ex and various other people in his life. So I insisted. He insisted to pay, he won't have it. Then, at the end of the date, as he was walking out of the restaurant, he was nervous and while saying bye, he walked with his face straight into a pole LOL LOL

 

Anyway, I declined a second date and he was angry and demanded I sent him the money for my meal, something like $21.50 I did send him $25 in cash. So in this case, he faked chivalry. At least he walked into that pole, that made my day.

[Supernatural]

This is why dating young women is not fun or really even dating for that matter.

People have this idea that relationships are a salvation to everything. Like a person will make you happy. And if a man doesn't live up to the woman's ridiculous standards, they bust your ass and make you feel mental pain -- text conversations instead of in-person. Call her, and she doesn't answer and goes cold. Goes on a date with another guy and let's you know via Facebook. It literally happens and is garbage. No one should stand for it.

 

A relationship is just a small part of your life. A man/woman is not responsible for your happiness and you should never make someone carry that weight. This chick just isn't taking responsibility for her own actions. And that's what causes BS relationships and friendships.

 

She set this guy up to fail, and she expected we would all say.. "This guy is scum, you deserve better! NEXT!" - because that's what your Dad would say.

 

You say you appreciate our comments, but you don't. You're probably quite upset with how this whole situation unfolded. Earlier in a message you said you carefully worded the text to him to make it seem like you're not mad. But you are. You're fake. And you know it.

 

You have a lot of learning to do. And if a footed bill is the biggest thing you took away from this date. Then I wish you luck never seeing who someone truly is. All your seeing is how valuable you think you are.

 

A held door, a footed bill, a rose from a store - they are all nice.. But that isn't what is important in a relationship or a friendship. There just THINGS! This date scenario went to hell on the first date when you were pissed about the coffee.. But held on to the hot coal of anger and secretly suffered online. This is more about THINGS than anything else.

 

I would choose a relationship that had amazing communication and unmistakable respect, over one where I held doors and she cooked me dinner. And respect isn't a footed bill.

I don't need a mother, and she doesn't need a butler. But if she does - no one does. But she needs, and I need someone who knows what strength in words and actions are.

 

You're looking for your father, but in a date. And to me, that's just whack! Look for a man who stands beside you, who is strong mentally, rather than some guy who just wants to baby you and pay your way.

 

Because if this was ancient Rome times. And Me and my ideal woman met you and a guy who babied you on a battlefield, spears and swords in hand. You would get destroyed. The guy would be too busy focusing on you to see if you were okay, then get a spear in embedded his face and you would be to busy hiding behind the guy trying not to get hit, that you would...

 

Because you have this idea of what a good couple is. But in reality... Any man can do it, with a big wallet. And to you, success is a big wallet.

 

That's why the our generation is Fvvcked. Because success is a dollar sign.

[Keenly]

I wish I had been this guy. Instead of an apology text, your get " so you set a trap on the first date? If you didn't want to pay, don't offer. I'll be looking around for a woman that's a little less of a pain in the ass. Better get to bed early tonight, because highschool starts at 745"

 

 

And be done with it.

[bluesgirl]

I'm not going to get all defensive and waste my time writing a big long message about how i'm none of the things you described, but thank you for your comment! And thank you to everyone else, I have learned a different perspective on the issue and will take in these opinions. I'm going to move forward from this issue now

[Omei]

Men are real simple you say "lets split the bill" they will take it as clearly as you said it splitting the bill. It was unfair of you to offer that then turn around and give him heck for it later, that's what men would call a mind game because they can't read your mind or decifer secrect coding in your head that was "im gonna offer to pay but I hope he offers to pay for it all"

 

It actually like this for most people, people will take exactly what you say as what you want.

 

Don't do that to people offer one thing then take it away or tell them you wish different, its rude.

[somedude81]

I'm not going to get all defensive and waste my time writing a big long message about how i'm none of the things you described, but thank you for your comment! And thank you to everyone else, I have learned a different perspective on the issue and will take in these opinions. I'm going to move forward from this issue now

 

This forum always has a bit of a gender wars thing going on. Don't take it personal.

[Omei]

I wish I had been this guy. Instead of an apology text, your get " so you set a trap on the first date? If you didn't want to pay, don't offer. I'll be looking around for a woman that's a little less of a pain in the ass. Better get to bed early tonight, because highschool starts at 745"

 

 

And be done with it.

 

This is a perfect example of how your date prob felt after he read your msg you offered one way but then turned around to make him seem like a jerk trapping him when the only thing he did was innocently take you word for word about splitting the bill.

[preraph]

If he was confused, anyone with a brain would know that he should either pay or at the very least go dutch -- not let her pay for both dates -- unless she is who asked him. I feel if someone is that confused, this is how they learn better.

 

Also, once into a relationship, it's up to the couple to know each other and find out what they're both comfortable with. In my experience, men would mostly rather pay in public to be the big shot or whatever. But I have sort of dated a guy who was always happy to let women pick up the tab, but he did treat me to a nice dinner or two when he was more flush (musician). I've met other men who would sooner have erectile dysfunction than be seen letting a woman pay the tab -- and for these men, you make cookies and cook dinner and make picnics. I've always been comfortable going dutch once the relationship is established, but not in the beginning until I see how they're going to feel about it because it is a huge turnoff to a lot of men not to pay for dinner early on, plus I definitely want to be sure they're not looking for a sugarmama!!!

[somedude81]

Men are real simple you say "lets split the bill" they will take it as clearly as you said it splitting the bill. It was unfair of you to offer that then turn around and give him heck for it later, that's what men would call a mind game because they can't read your mind or decifer secrect coding in your head that was "im gonna offer to pay but I hope he offers to pay for it all"

 

It actually like this for most people, people will take exactly what you say as what you want.

 

Don't do that to people offer one thing then take it away or tell them you wish different, its rude.

 

A little off topic, but do women do that to each other, making a false effort to pay and play games with each other?

 

As you said, men are really simple and straight forward.

[freetolove]

Don't see him again. And you shouldn't have offered if you didn't mean to.

[d0nnivain]

A little off topic, but do women do that to each other, making a false effort to pay and play games with each other?

 

No women, sit there & nit pick the bill.

 

I had a glass of water & a small salad for $7.99. You had a glass of wine & the chicken. So here's $9.

 

It's maddening in a different way.

[Omei]

A little off topic, but do women do that to each other, making a false effort to pay and play games with each other?

 

As you said, men are really simple and straight forward.

 

No its pretty forward since we dont date each other, when splitting the bill is discussed.

 

 

 

My gal friend bought me lunch yesterday I will buy her lunch in our next outing we take turns.

Edited September 8, 2014 by Omei