Called him out for not paying for dinner on first date

[ascendotum]

There is absolutely nothing in the code of chivalry that says men need to buy women dinner. Chivalry is just a code of knighthood, not a manual on how to date women.

 

What disturbs me the most about this situation is the fact that you were playing games offering to pay, even though you had no intentions of doing so.

 

You set this guy up for failure. If you don't want to help pay, then don't offer. It's insincere and dishonest.

 

Agree. It is not chivalry or good manners. Its a nice gesture though that came about because women used to not have jobs or else the jobs were lower paid then men's jobs, so the single man had more disposable income to treat the woman. Plus there was also a theme of the gentlemen never lets a a lady pay. Well the days of gentleman & ladies and low pay and women as housewives for their career are over.

 

I also agree with the girl who said don't go out with him again becuase he was a wuss over the apology. He owed no apology and he shouldn't have said sorry for going with her 'Iet's go halves' stooge.

[Supernatural]

Wow what a chump. Not for letting you pay, but for sending you that apology message. You're not entitled to anything. You want chivalry, earn it. Why don't you step up your game and show him you're not looking for free meals. Better yet don't date him, move on to the next because he didn't treat you.

Agreed.

 

Obviously men are to be treated of high value as well. I think everyone should think of themselves as high value and expect to be treated a certain way. I know my self worth and maybe my expectations are a little too high, but I won't settle for someone who doesn't meet my expectations. I'm not a serial dater and he is the only guy I have met up with through online dating. I deleted my account after about a week because it felt too weird talking to so many guys at once. I know how much I can bring to a relationship and how much love I have to give to a man that is deserving of it. If me expecting a guy to pay on a first date is too much for someone to handle then obviously it's not a right match. I really appreciate everyone's input and opinions though!

Someone who throws empty offers just for the sake of it, is not high value. You're just spoiled and expect a man to put you on a pedestal and treat you like gold. I'm sure we will see you posting much more here. If a 3$ coffee is stressing you out, and a small date which you offered to go dutch on went sideways and then you text him and blow up at him -- after only a second date!! Yeesh!

 

Can't go on one date and expect you're Cinderella.

[adna89]

Hmm,give him one more chance,maybe he didnt even Think about it

[Emilia]

When a girl goes out on a first date with a guy we are not expecting to pay for ourselves. I think I speak for most women on this issue.

 

Nope!

 

___________________

[acrosstheuniverse]

I would go out again, why not? I had a guy who didn't pay for our coffees on either the first or second date, I didn't see him again. I would have been happy for him or me to pay for the first two, then the other for the second two, so it's even overall. But asking to split a $6 bill at the cashier's till is a humongous turn off. It's so tight.

 

In comparison, on my first date with my now boyfriend I paid for my drink before he arrived, he bought his own, then he got a round for us both and I got a round for us both. Totally evenly split down the middle but the gesture of him offering to buy my drink for me after we had finished the first ones is all it takes, even though I happily offered and then bought the second two drinks.

 

I find it far nicer to just treat one another, he gets dinner one week, I get it the next. Splitting a cheque is a turn off.

 

But this guy apologised, maybe he genuinely didn't think? Maybe he thought it was okay to act that way (it totally IS fine to act that way, it's just not what all women want) and is willing to change his behaviour to please you and date you. I would give him a second chance.

[fred123]

so girls are entitled for free dinners but men are not allowed to be entitled for sex.

 

is it me or women are hypocrits and make up their own rules as they go along to rationalise their behaviour?

[gaius]

Agree. It is not chivalry or good manners. Its a nice gesture though that came about because women used to not have jobs or else the jobs were lower paid then men's jobs, so the single man had more disposable income to treat the woman. Plus there was also a theme of the gentlemen never lets a a lady pay. Well the days of gentleman & ladies and low pay and women as housewives for their career are over.

 

I also agree with the girl who said don't go out with him again becuase he was a wuss over the apology. He owed no apology and he shouldn't have said sorry for going with her 'Iet's go halves' stooge.

I don't know, I've seen studies even from Africa where the tribeswomen are busy counting the meat their husband brings home to make sure he doesn't give any to other women. Which doesn't appear all that different from the behavior I see around here. There seems to be a solid link between resource sharing and sexuality for the vast majority of women around the world on a core level. And to pretend otherwise out of some weird desire to appear equal is strange to me. Not saying you are ascen, just pontificating on a lot of the thread. It's almost oppressive to the women who are happy to admit that kind of thing turns them on.

 

I would give him a chance to make it right and go out with him again.

[doeblin]

It's almost oppressive to the women who are happy to admit that kind of thing turns them on.

 

 

Wow, now she's oppressed.

 

The key thing is: she disingenuously OFFERED to split, then she flipped out, because he thought she is for real.

If this ain't a sense of entitlement, I don't know what is.

 

This is ridiculous, really.

 

 

(Also, he shouldn't have apologized, and I wouldn't go out with her again after that letter.)

[sillyanswer]

When the waitress dropped the check I asked him if he would like me to help with the bill (just to be nice, not expecting he would say yes) and what do you know...he says "oh sure" GRR

 

Don't make offers like this if you don't want someone to take you up on them!

 

But, to answer your question, no you shouldn't see him again. You have incompatible views.

[PegNosePete]

Well he offered to pay for the next date so why not go for it? You'll get a free meal at least. That seems to be what you're after.

[Survivor12]

When a girl goes out on a first date with a guy we are not expecting to pay for ourselves. I think I speak for most women on this issue. This is not saying that we are gold diggers or just looking for a free meal, but it's the fact that when a guy asks US out on a date, we are not going to be the ones paying! If the roles were reversed and I was to ask him out then you can bet I would expect myself to pay for us. But in the normal dating scene it's the guys that ask the girls, therefore it's only common courtesy. IMO

 

To say that you speak for most women is presumptive & self-serving. You don't know that "most" women agree with you. I, speaking only for myself, do not "expect" a man to pick up the tab. That is not to say that I would not allow him to, but if I offer & he accepts, I would certainly not think critically of him.

 

What I don't understand is why you offered if you had no real intention of paying. Why pretend? If you expect a man to foot the bill, be honest about it. Doesn't he deserve the right to know how you really feel? Maybe he wanted to pay but didn't want to offend you. He may have been on a date last week with someone who was insulted by him turning down their offer to pay....so how was he supposed to know that your offer was bogus?

 

As for opening doors & other chivalrous acts, different men show their respect in different ways...some in traditional ways, others by treating women as equals. It's up to you to find the ones who suit you, not to demand that all men act the way you want.

 

Personally, my rule of thumb is if a man asks me out & takes me to a restaurant or event of his choosing, I allow him to pay the bill. On the contrary, if I plan the date or choose the venue, it's on me. If we decide to do something spontaneously, I expect to pay my own way. I NEVER offer if I don't intend to pay & I will not haggle if he refuses my offer.

 

That may not suit everyone, but it works for me.

[Art_Critic]

You drive 30 mins into his town on a date he asked you out on and he split the check

 

To me this is one of those oh well moments.. you asked.. he allowed it to happen so you shouldn't be able to complain but IMO he shouldn't have let you pay.. no way.. no how...

 

I say go with your gut..

[Mascara]

For every woman that expects her offer to pay turned down, there's going to be another woman who hates feeling "bought" and could quite easily get offended if she's not allowed to pay her way.

 

Please OP, explain to me how on earth men are supposed to know you don't want to pay IF YOU OFFERED? They're not mind-readers, and frankly it's this kind of thing that gives the rest of us a bad name.

 

There are plenty of ways to indicate that you expect him to pay - "Thank you for dinner, I'll take care of the tip". "Thank you for a lovely date, my treat next time".

[Gaeta]

The way I see it you set him a trap. It does not say much about you OP.

[StanMusial]

Hi thank you for your response! I definitely don't want to cause any drama in this and I think your absolutely right! I didn't want my message to come across as mean and I tried not to phrase it as a mean comment, more so as "this is how I expect to be treated" comment. I will definitely take in your advice. I'm 23 as well

 

...says she, while deliberately causing drama...

[Zahara]

No, you don't speak for most women. I was cringing when you mentioned you called him out, even worse that he apologized.

 

You set a trap. If you want a guy to pay for you, then eat your dinner and be quiet. Don't offer to pay and then complain about it. You set him up to fail.

 

Everyone wants to be treated with value. Requiring a total stranger to pay for your dinner over a first date doesn't equate to chivalry or value but more so from entitlement.

Edited September 8, 2014 by Zahara

[Keenly]

You purposely led him into a situation you disapprove of, and then got upset when you suffered the consequences of your own actions.

 

 

The logic, there is none.

[BluEyeL]

I don't have set in stone expectations on this topic. But I only insist to pay at a first date if I don't like the guy. If I like him, I let him pay.

 

However, those little things, who paid for the date, when did he take his profile down etc. are usually symptoms of bigger things, and those bigger things, such as values, views on life, character transpire in other situations. In my experience, if a man didn't pay for the coffee, he later proved not to be relationship material. It correlated.

 

I recommend to never call men out in the beginning, on anything. Just observe and draw your conclusions. If you called him out it was because you actually want to see him again. Now, if I were in your shoes, probably I'd have told him gently to take a hike by saying something nonconsequetial, such as there is no chemistry. But you want to see him again. You could have just continued to see him, and observe whether his lack of courtesy transfers into other things, like caring, generosity in general and so on. People tell us who they are very quickly. We just need to pay attention.

[BluEyeL]

Ah, and i see lots of problems with your scenario. One, he didn't pay for coffee. Two, you drove to him. Then, no surprise at all he let you pay at what actually was a second meet. If you want to be treated a certain way, set things that way from the beginning. He let you pay for coffee and he let you drive to him. He thought you're fine with putting in more effort than him. I never drive out of my way at the first or second date, ever. Not negotiable. This way I set a certain expectation and thus the guys know I'm "high maintenance" and either follow my lesd, or leave. I guarantee it works better this way. You gave a false impression on your expectations.

[Toodaloo]

For every woman that expects her offer to pay turned down, there's going to be another woman who hates feeling "bought" and could quite easily get offended if she's not allowed to pay her way.

 

Please OP, explain to me how on earth men are supposed to know you don't want to pay IF YOU OFFERED? They're not mind-readers, and frankly it's this kind of thing that gives the rest of us a bad name.

 

There are plenty of ways to indicate that you expect him to pay - "Thank you for dinner, I'll take care of the tip". "Thank you for a lovely date, my treat next time".

 

My thoughts exactly.

 

Poor sod... Damned if you do and damned if you don't...

 

Personally I would have been highly offended if I hadn't contributed. It would make me feel as though they thought I were incapable of earning a living and taking care of my own. Don't get me wrong I like being spoilt but on a first date I want to pay my way thank you. Regardless how how long it took me to drive there...

[buffalo]

By the way - a man who offers you his commitment, fidelity, and time truly is treating you of high value.

 

This 100 times. I started dating my DH 20 years ago when we were both about your age. Not too many folks in their early 20s have loads of extra cash to throw around, my DH included. On our first date, I offered to help pay. He accepted. The difference is that I was sincere with my offer and, until now, never thought another second about it. My DH is one of the kindest, most thoughtful and respectful men you could ever wish to spend your life with. I've never spent much time paying attention to whether he was 'chivalrous' enough but by your definition, perhaps he's not. I can tell you that he cooks, cleans, does all the laundry and dishes. He also risked his career and took off 6 weeks from work when each of our babies were born. He diapered them, often more frequently than I did, and got up in the middle of the night when they woke. He has been 150% involved in their care and upbringing. Not sure if that adds any chivalry points for him but frankly, I don't care. I don't need him to be someone's definition of chivalrous, I need him to treat me as my respectful partner. He's winning at that so all is well. While you're only in the dating stage of your life, I point out my experience because had I judged my DH with your measuring stick, I would have missed out on one amazing man.

 

The way I see it you set him a trap. It does not say much about you OP.

 

I agree with this but I'm going to take a different angle. I don't think you're setting yourself up for a healthy relationship - not just with this guy but any other guy who comes along. You played mind games and created a situation of miscommunication. Your relationships will never be healthy and happy if you continue down this path. Open and honest communication is essential. I applaud you for relaying your feelings via text but really, it was after the fact and should never have occurred in the first place. Don't say things that aren't sincere. How can the guy possibly get ahead if you send him mixed messages. And frankly, by acting that way, he's not getting a fair version of your personality. You portrayed yourself as a woman interested in splitting the check, but you're really not. You're a woman who prefers to have her date pay for her. How was that fair to him? Perhaps he prefers the woman who prefers to split the check because he thinks it shows a level of independence he finds attractive?? At this point, you may never know.

Edited September 8, 2014 by buffalo

[normal person]

In my years of dating I have always offered to help pay on the first date.

Translation: "I have always tried to trick a guy into believing that I will actually pay."

 

I don't want to be that girl that just sits there when the check comes and is just expecting him to pay for me.

 

Why does it matter if that's what you want or not? It's exactly what you're doing regardless. Your actions speak so much louder than words. "Yeah, I'm trying to trick him into paying -- but it's ok, because I can assure you I feel really bad about it. God forbid I feel bad when the check comes. It's much more convenient for me to make him feel bad about it later."

 

 

So of course i'm going to offer to help. It's just common courtesy.

 

The fact that you call giving a disingenuous offer to pay for a dinner and then getting mad that a guy accepts "common courtesy" is laughable. This is the least courteous thing you could do. If you had common courtesy you could have

 

1). Actually been truthful in your offer

2). Not offered to pay and say "thanks for dinner."

3). Offered to pay without being a lie.

 

 

But when i'm going out on a date with a guy, especially the first date, I would be lying if I didn't have certain expectations of how it will go.

 

What a coincidence, you ended up lying anyways.

 

If he doesn't open my door or be a gentleman then it obviously affects the way I see him. It just goes back to how I was raised and my father setting the bar pretty high. I've been in a a couple long term relationships and after a while it's more of an even keel thing, but in the beginning when a guy is courting me, I expect to be treated of high value

 

You're allowed to have expectations and preferences. But don't act like you don't have them and then spring it on the guy later like he's some loser. "I offered to pay and you actually accepted it?" If you want to be entitled, fine, you can. But if that's the case, you don't get to act like you're reasonable too. You can't have it both ways. Be up front about what you want and not deceptive.

Edited September 8, 2014 by normal person

[Mrin]

I guess my only problem here is when did courting a woman become so lazy? Is it us women who just have no expectations anymore? And in no way am I trying to bash the opposite sex at all, just want to put that out there. I love the opposite sex and very much respect men, but I just feel as though dating these days is way more complicated then what it should be. *sigh*

 

Am I really expecting too much?

 

It isn't that you're expecting too much, it is that you are swimming in a grey area and deliberately setting a trap for him to fall into. For me, I used to always insist on paying as a way of showing my appreciation for the lady. Then a female friend pointed out a flaw in my logic - it puts a lot of pressure on the lady to decide how she feels about me as she feels she's incurring a debt or taking advantage of me because I'm picking up the check. So it forces her to make a fish or cut bait decision long before either of us are ready for that.

 

After that, I still grab the bill but if she sincerely offers to split I either accept or just tell her she can pick up our drinks after the meal. I usually opt for the latter.

 

Edit: and currently I'm in a committed relationship so we just alternate meals/couple expenses.

[Phoe]

So you TRICK him into a losing situation, then punish him for it. Wow.

 

 

Maybe if you'd just kept quiet and smiled when the bill came he would've picked it up. Perhaps he was planning on it in the first place before you offered.

[somedude81]

Offering to help pay, but actually not wanting to help is lying.

 

Why do you want to start your relationship on a lie?