Do more mature women still want a jerk?

[hasaquestion]

I agree with this. I was aggressive early on in our relationship. I always took charge as far as planning things and doing things even to the end and I know she liked that, but when it came to her drama, I was too passive and understanding. She would say that I'm sweet, but also that she was looking for a man that was sweet to her. Her only 2 failed relationships (one was a long term marriage) had lots of drama according to her. Maybe she has to have someone to keep her in check. We would talk about the issues and I'd try to help her with them, but she might have been the type that needed a more aggressive man when it came to dealing with those issues. I look back and tell myself that I shouldn't have put up with some of the crap going on, but I did as that was my way of showing her I cared. That's me. Guess it didn't work for her and in my future relationships I will not be so tolerant and understanding on certain issues. I won't change my core self, but I will learn from this and recognize when I need to be less passive in dealing with conflict.

 

She wanted you to be in charge. Is that so much to ask??? Its not like she wanted you to punch her or something.

[dumbass2]

She wanted you to be in charge. Is that so much to ask??? Its not like she wanted you to punch her or something.

 

As I said, I did take charge of things all the way to the end, but I would try to be too understanding to her issues and tried to help her with them, whether it was family, her ex or work. I wasn't going to get pissed of if she had to be late or cancel plans because something came up with one of her kids. I wasn't going to get pissed of if she had to stay late at work or had to work an extra day so we couldn't see each other for a day. I did get pissed off a bit when something came up that involved her ex. My way of handling things was to talk, not yell. If I had done that with the drama she had, I guess I felt I would have lost her, but I lost her anyway and probably best for both of us. According to her, both men in her last relationships were big jerks on things they did and said to her. One even pushed her around a bit and the other cheated numerous times before the divorce. I don't blame her for things not working. It was a two way street, I just wasn't the right guy for her situation and I tried handling it the best i knew how.

[MissBee]

I've said it a hundred times and I'll say it again. There's a reason why incarcerated men get proposal letters from women they don't even know. This simple truth says it all.

 

I've come to the conclusion that if I had given my ex wife a good black eye after she assaulted me, she would probably be begging for me back. But I'm glad I kept my dignity.

 

What's the reason?

 

The reason is that only a CERTAIN KIND of woman will do this. Often the uneducated, low self-esteem or if you look in their lives they have some kind of issue whether it be a history of abusive men or men they take care of who have no jobs, they have several children with different men, they live an otherwise lonely life with not many friends and family or they are mentall unstable and are attracted to murderers because that perceived power fills some lack within them. I've watched those documentary series called Prison Wives and such and all these women fit a VERY SPECIFIC type. It's never any college educated, decent money making, seems to have a history of normal relationships type of woman....but always some woman desperate to latch on to low hanging fruit because of her own problems and feeling like this prison man will love and care for them because they don't have many options OR those who seem completely nuts and get off on the "power" of serial killers and such.

 

I guarantee that the majority if not all the women writing to incarcerated men and falling in love with already convicted criminals are not women with high self worth and a lot going for them but fall into a very specific category.

 

So as I said...women who love jerks usually are that way for a reason and it's dysfunctional but is not some type of normal behavior where all women are interested in jerks and prisoners...the majority are not.

Edited August 19, 2014 by MissBee

[hotpotato]

What's the reason?

 

The reason is that only a CERTAIN KIND of woman will do this. Often the uneducated, low self-esteem or if you look in their lives they have some kind of issue whether it be a history of abusive men or men they take care of who have no jobs, they have several children with different men, they live an otherwise lonely life with not many friends and family or they are mentall unstable and are attracted to murderers because that perceived power fills some lack within them. I've watched those documentary series called Prison Wives and such and all these women fit a VERY SPECIFIC type. It's never any college educated, decent money making, seems to have a history of normal relationships type of woman....but always some woman desperate to latch on to low hanging fruit because of her own problems and feeling like this prison man will love and care for them because they don't have many options OR those who seem completely nuts and get off on the "power" of serial killers and such.

 

I guarantee that the majority if not all the women writing to incarcerated men and falling in love with already convicted criminals are not women with high self worth and a lot going for them but fall into a very specific category.

 

So as I said...women who love jerks usually are that way for a reason and it's dysfunctional but is not some type of normal behavior where all women are interested in jerks and prisoners...the majority are not.

 

Of course, they find the craziest people, its reality tv.

 

Or they might be really hot playboy bunnies like the one who proposed to Scott Peterson.

 

Guys in prison arent always jerks, either. They can actually be very romantic. Men in prison are often very attractive as well. Not all of the convicts are lifers, and not all are violent. About half the people incarcerated are there on drug charges.

 

I actually speak with women who are Mwi (met while incarcerated), they seem fine. I dont know them personally, but they dont seem uneducated, desperate, depressed. However, they may be extra sensitive. Some are married to their conpals and very happy

 

I write to convicts. I started writing to a relative in prison then started writing to others.

[TheGuard13]

Are you sure she didn't say "Maybe if you were LESS of a jerk?"

[Easyguy14]

When my ex (who is 44) told me she couldn't see me anymore, one of the things she said that stood out to me was this, "maybe if you were more of a jerk, this could have worked"

 

She had a bit of drama in her life and I always tried to be understanding and it was one of the ways I thought I was showing her that I cared about her. I was understanding when it came to anything she had to do with her kids (20 and 22), her work, which we would talk about (she works overnight), her ex who kept trying to keep in contact and I wouldn't be quite so understanding about but tried. I was a good guy to her. We didn't argue hardly at all. There were no yelling fights. There were more talks than anything.

 

Is it really necessary to have have fights and arguments once you reach a certain age and maturity?

 

Should I have expected games to be played on her end?

 

Am I just being too naive because I haven't been in many relationships and had not been in one for a while?

 

The relationship only lasted 5 months and she caused a lot of drama the last few weeks. Is it that she just couldn't handle a "nice guy" because she hadn't been around one in her only 2 relationships?

 

 

I think all women crave some sort of drama in their lives whether they're in their 20s 30s 40s makes no difference. If things are too perfect people get bored so I guess it could go both ways in the end.

[M30USA]

I think all women crave some sort of drama in their lives whether they're in their 20s 30s 40s makes no difference. If things are too perfect people get bored so I guess it could go both ways in the end.

 

Not me. I don't value anything in this world so therefore tranquility and truth are my highest priorities.

[dumbass2]

Are you sure she didn't say "Maybe if you were LESS of a jerk?"

 

no, it was "if i was more of a jerk"

 

She had drama in her life, i just tried to lessen it for her by trying to be understanding to some of it. She had jerks (according to her) in her only 2 relationships prior to me.

[lollipopspot]

I've said it a hundred times and I'll say it again. There's a reason why incarcerated men get proposal letters from women they don't even know. This simple truth says it all.

 

That's like saying, There's a reason while almost all sadistic serial killers and violent criminals are men. This simple truth says it all. Implying that something in the male nature makes men as a group violent and sadistic serial killers.

 

You pick a small segment of the population and generalize, which doesn't work, unless you want to cop to men in general being violent and sadistic.

[chados]

woman do not want a jerk. its a big missconception. they want a confident man that is afraid to be a little crazy but they know he's just joking around. what people do is they take a guy that has no confidence and cant talk to a woman and compare them too a guy thats being an ass. the reason why they choose the bad guys is because the other guy is so afraid of her that she cant see any attraction.

 

now if you take a bad guy and a guy that knows how to be a man without putting people down, then we have a different situation.

[M30USA]

That's like saying, There's a reason while almost all sadistic serial killers and violent criminals are men. This simple truth says it all. Implying that something in the male nature makes men as a group violent and sadistic serial killers.

 

You pick a small segment of the population and generalize, which doesn't work, unless you want to cop to men in general being violent and sadistic.

 

You're the one reading into my statement. Take it for what it says. You seem to be on a roll with all my posts.

[lollipopspot]

You're the one reading into my statement.

 

Someone asked you to explain it earlier. It's a very broad statement you made. If you want to clarify if you think you're being misread, you're free to do so.

[OwMyEyeball]

What's a jerk?

 

And what defines a mature woman?

[Taramere]

Is it really necessary to have have fights and arguments once you reach a certain age and maturity?

 

Should I have expected games to be played on her end?

 

Am I just being too naive because I haven't been in many relationships and had not been in one for a while?

 

The relationship only lasted 5 months and she caused a lot of drama the last few weeks. Is it that she just couldn't handle a "nice guy" because she hadn't been around one in her only 2 relationships?

 

I would start by differentiating between conflict and drama. Conflict is a normal part of life. If you're in a relationship where there is some degree of conflict, it means that the two of you don't agree on everything, and both parties feel sufficiently confident and safe to speak their minds without running the risk of ending the relationship over a minor disagreement. Drama is what happens with people who haven't learned to manage conflict - or with people who can normally manage it, but are struggling due to higher than normal degrees of stress and emotion. In a drama, you're going to have roles like victim, persecutor and potentially rescuer. At any one time, both people in the conflict might be convinced that they're the victim and the other person is the persecutor. Both are probably borrowing aspects of the two different roles.

 

Without knowing you and your ex, it's impossible to comment on the dynamic beween you. The way you present it, she was a bit of a drama queen while you're a peaceful guy who doesn't see the need for drama. She might have perceived it as "I speak my mind whereas he avoids conflict. I find it frustrating because I don't know how he's really feeling about things." That can be your Nice Guy. The "yes dear...no dear" character of many a husband and wife sitcom. The person who is so afraid of conflict that he never says what's really on his mind. I find guys like that difficult to deal with, because I can be a bit like that myself. Sit me down with a nice guy, or nice person, and the two of us will probably prevaricate for ever - both of us wanting to keep things nice, treading on eggshells... neither saying what we really think.

 

Faced with a guy who's a bit confrontational, I'll come to life more. I can be myself, without causing offence or distress. I can disagree without it being the end of the world. I can know that when we agree on something, it's genuine agreement rather than just "keeping the peace" agreement. That if there's a connection, it's genuine - rather than me being fooled into thinking there's any kind of meaningful connection because I'm talking to a nice guy who's faking interest out of good manners.

 

Also, there's the problem that sometimes with people who hold themselves out as being very nice...when they say nice what they actually mean is "I divide people into persecutor, victim and rescuer. I see myself as a victim or a rescuer, but never a persecutor." Some of the nastiest behaviour I've encountered, as an adult, has been from people who viewed themselves in those terms. When they're abusive or aggressive, they perceive it as justified. Something others drove them to. Something they can't or shouldn't be held accountable for.

 

I'm not suggesting for a moment that you fall into that category. However I suppose that there's always the fear - with overly nice and conflict avoiding people - of what actually happens when they do flip out. Do they lose control completely? Do they become physically aggressive? Are they prone to overreactions because they spend so much time avoiding conflict that when faced with the task of having to deal with it they can't deal with it in an appropriate and measured way?

 

I've posted on this board for years, and I've seen a lot of downright concerning commentary from guys who clearly regarded themselves as falling firmly into the Nice Guy camp. They bite their tongues constantly in real life, because they're so afraid of conflict, and then they come on here and out spills some serious venom and aggression. It's not, by any means, uncommon. I would much prefer to deal with somebody who is forthright and honest about what he agrees with and what he disagreed. You know where you are with people like that. You don't have to spend time worrying about what they're really thinking or feeling....or whether there's a huge stash of anger building up and bubbling away inside of them.

[Taramere]

Guys in prison arent always jerks, either. They can actually be very romantic. Men in prison are often very attractive as well. Not all of the convicts are lifers, and not all are violent. About half the people incarcerated are there on drug charges.

 

There's something in what both you and Miss Bee are saying.

 

I think I've told this story on LS before. I had to do a prison visit one time as a student. It was in a prison where there were a lot of sex offenders. I took care to dress in a fairly covered up way. Trousers, long sleeves, minimal make up (ie to look well groomed but not sexual) and so on.

 

At one point the guards took me through a workroom. They didn't need to, it was obvious afterwards that they'd done it for entertainment. You can imagine the crap that was shouted at me. But by no means were all the guys involved in that shouting. It was a core group who were being abusive - and most of the others were sitting around looking annoyed and uncomfortable about what was going on.

 

Later on, we were talking to a group of prisoners. They invited me to go up and see their dorm. Not exactly something you want to do after being harassed in a prison work room. However, the guards were adamant that this invitation was an honour and I should go up. This sounds crazy, but I didn't want to be rude and offensive by indicating that I didn't trust the prisoners. So I went up.

 

As soon as I was there, in that dorm, they were all pulling down or covering up the porno posters on the wall. There was inevitably an element of them sniggering about me and taking the p a bit...but generally they were welcoming and friendly. They asked me about my course and they expressed annoyance about what had taken place in the workroom. They told me the guys were arseholes and I had obviously been set up for their morning's entertainment. I agreed pretty vehemently with that.

 

Anyway, in a nutshell - these seemed like ordinary and fundamentally decent guys who had got into a bit of trouble. I knew, from the fact that they were in dorm accommodation, that they were petty offenders rather than killers or sex offenders. They struck me as being a lot more human, gentlemanly, well adjusted and basically nice people than the guards who had very evidently got off on seeing me being yelled at in the workroom.

[hotpotato]

There's something in what both you and Miss Bee are saying.

 

I think I've told this story on LS before. I had to do a prison visit one time as a student. It was in a prison where there were a lot of sex offenders. I took care to dress in a fairly covered up way. Trousers, long sleeves, minimal make up (ie to look well groomed but not sexual) and so on.

 

At one point the guards took me through a workroom. They didn't need to, it was obvious afterwards that they'd done it for entertainment. You can imagine the crap that was shouted at me. But by no means were all the guys involved in that shouting. It was a core group who were being abusive - and most of the others were sitting around looking annoyed and uncomfortable about what was going on.

 

Later on, we were talking to a group of prisoners. They invited me to go up and see their dorm. Not exactly something you want to do after being harassed in a prison work room. However, the guards were adamant that this invitation was an honour and I should go up. This sounds crazy, but I didn't want to be rude and offensive by indicating that I didn't trust the prisoners. So I went up.

 

As soon as I was there, in that dorm, they were all pulling down or covering up the porno posters on the wall. There was inevitably an element of them sniggering about me and taking the p a bit...but generally they were welcoming and friendly. They asked me about my course and they expressed annoyance about what had taken place in the workroom. They told me the guys were arseholes and I had obviously been set up for their morning's entertainment. I agreed pretty vehemently with that.

 

Anyway, in a nutshell - these seemed like ordinary and fundamentally decent guys who had got into a bit of trouble. I knew, from the fact that they were in dorm accommodation, that they were petty offenders rather than killers or sex offenders. They struck me as being a lot more human, gentlemanly, well adjusted and basically nice people than the guards who had very evidently got off on seeing me being yelled at in the workroom.

 

Yep. Many prisoners are just normal people.

 

In fact, some of the guys behind bars would put men on the outside to shame. Some guys behind bars send a dozen roses, paintings, drawings, jewelry, you name it.They may have broken the law, but they are not mean to the girlfriend.

 

Some prisoners are actually very respectful of women.

[carhill]

Some prisoners are actually very respectful of women.

 

IMO, very true. In fact, every time I drive by Cali's largest male prison not far from me, I reflect on this while viewing all the cars in the visitor's parking lot. In fact, it's so pervasive, the families of some long-timers actually buy houses in the little town nearby to be closer to their spouse or boyfriend.

 

I don't see it as odd at all. Men are socialized to be able to compartmentalize anti-social behaviors, like killing and committing illegal acts, away from social behaviors, like treating their wife and children well.

 

The challenge for a man is to be both law-abiding and treating women well. The flavor of the title suggests some men are failing at the latter, and a prisoner who does would be more of an all-around jerk than the prisoner who doesn't fail in that regard. Some women don't care what a man does or has done to other people, only how he treats them, hence the full parking lot. That's life!

[Absinthe]

This old chestnut. I, and many other fellow straight women, have gone through the dating grind and it's SSDD...a guy is either a total doormat, or an actual jerk. Neither is appealing.

 

I've gone out with two guys who were total pushovers. So weak were their boundaries that I found myself, almost subconsciously, taking advantage of their good nature...ultimately hating myself for it...and losing respect for them.

 

The guy I fell in love with was the guy who did not take any of my BS (in a non-abusive way). I respected him for that.

 

When (normal, non-drama seeking) women want a fight...they want you to defend yourself. Nothing gets more dull than dating someone who agrees with everything you say (and this is a hallmark of the Nice Guy). It does not need to be a slanging match. It can be something like this:

 

Girl: Shall we go to Bar X tonight?

Guy: Bar X is okay, but I heard that Bar D is more exciting. Then afterwards we could grab a late bite at Restaurant C.

 

See? Guy knows his own mind, what he likes. Yet is still able to respect his partner's choice.

 

There are also Nice Women who are total doormats, I am sure the Nice Guys have met these women - some may have even been jerks to them.

[Imported]

You're the one reading into my statement. Take it for what it says. You seem to be on a roll with all my posts.

 

No. It's just that you are wrong.

[thefooloftheyear]

Yep. Many prisoners are just normal people.

 

In fact, some of the guys behind bars would put men on the outside to shame. Some guys behind bars send a dozen roses, paintings, drawings, jewelry, you name it.They may have broken the law, but they are not mean to the girlfriend.

 

Some prisoners are actually very respectful of women.

 

Sure they do....

 

They are just "grooming" the next naive woman to pay their way through life...

 

ive worked with guys who have been locked up....If they spent half their time trying to con people and instead put it to productive measures then they'd actually might make something of themselves...

 

TFY

[Smilecharmer]

The real question is do all men like steak?

[MissBee]

Yep. Many prisoners are just normal people.

 

In fact, some of the guys behind bars would put men on the outside to shame. Some guys behind bars send a dozen roses, paintings, drawings, jewelry, you name it.They may have broken the law, but they are not mean to the girlfriend.

 

Some prisoners are actually very respectful of women.

 

My point was never about if prisoners are normal people. I'm actually a mentor in a prison education program at a minimum security prison through my university. I don't go around with an idea that prisoners are subhuman monsters or even that all prisoners are guilty of what they've been convicted of. I am very much aware that many prisoners are normal people, and have had two family members who were imprisoned before, likewise some prisoners are sick and psychologically damaged, like those who serially kill.

 

The post I responded to was from someone claiming that women like jerks because look at all the serial killers who get women and women write to them and are in love with them. My point wasn't about if prisoners in general are normal or nice or romantic...but that women who will choose to write to and be in love with KNOWN SERIAL KILLERS aren't operating in a normal and emotionally or mentally healthy way.

 

The shows I brought up are not reality shows, but tv documentaries. Reality shows focus on drama, tv documentary series t least try for a more balanced outlook. The shows weren't dramatic, but focused on the whole process of their visits and the back story as to how and why these women chose this. These women were indeed "sensitive" and willing to understand these serial killers and such...but that sensitivity spoke to a problem. In the documentary series I was watching these men were lifers. A few of the women married to them were with them before their incarceration then you had another number who wrote to them, fell in love and visited them and then married them behind bars. What they say of their lives, what you see of their lives were that they were lonely and reached out to men behind bars or their histories showed they had a pattern of poor relationship choices.

 

We're gonna have to disagree that women who specifically seek out men doing time as romantic partners don't have some issues going on, especially those seeking out serial killers. If most people go to OkCuipid to find dates and you go to PrisonFriends.Com....what's driving that?? I was telling the poster that it is NOT the majority of women who are gonna seek out incarcerated men or serial killers to date so his theory is off and rather it's a very specific subset of women who will.

Edited August 25, 2014 by MissBee

[hotpotato]

Sure they do....

 

They are just "grooming" the next naive woman to pay their way through life...

 

ive worked with guys who have been locked up....If they spent half their time trying to con people and instead put it to productive measures then they'd actually might make something of themselves...

 

TFY

 

Well, of coyrse, some of them are manipulative. Thats how a lot of people are regardless of whether or not they are incarcerated. Sime are honest, some are not. Thats just people.

 

Sometimes they get out and marry the womsn they are supposedly conning. Sometimes they dont.

[TheGuard13]

no, it was "if i was more of a jerk"

 

She had drama in her life, i just tried to lessen it for her by trying to be understanding to some of it. She had jerks (according to her) in her only 2 relationships prior to me.

 

I see.

 

And you're positive it wasn't "Maybe if your hearing was better and you weren't such a jerk?"

[TheGuard13]

Sure, some prisoners are manipulative, just like many people are.

 

But I would think that a lot of prisoners aren't sending flowers, jewelry etc so much to manipulate, but because they're competing with men who aren't in prison, and who are available for a full relationship.

 

They're probably, for lack of a better term, overcompensating a bit, and giving women additional reasons to wait for them and stay with them and consider something longterm VS moving on (not that some women don't accept the gifts AND date other men).