Male Perspective Needed

[me85]

My question for the fellas (even if you don't rationalize it this way) is how come a lot of guys think it's only considered cheating if they're actually physically involved with another girl and think that it's not cheating if they're "just" sexting/calling/exchanging provocative pictures?

 

What's your take on this?

[SoThatHappened]

We're pigs. Visually stimulated pigs.

 

Even when truly in love with a woman, we still want to see other women naked.

 

The bright side is that we don't get emotionally involved.

 

I think it's less of a big deal when a guy has a girl sending him provocative pictures than when a women has an emotional attachment to someone else. Both while they're in relationships. I say this because we don't have "feelings" for the person we're sexting. We just wanna see them naked!

 

My take... as a guy.

[carhill]

Male perspective varies. Cheating, in and of itself, relates to deception rather than any particular action. If the guy is sexting some other gal while you're sitting on the couch and you're aware of it, he's not cheating. Highly inappropriate, IMO, but not cheating.

 

TBH, with long experience with MW's, I've found their perspective to markedly align with your assertion. Most never considered their ILY's and emotional intimacy with myself to be an affair nor cheating, since no sex was involved. I've always seen such perspectives as pretty equal opportunity and specific more to individual rather than gender.

[mightycpa]

Basically, because there's no exchange of bodily fluids.

[OwMyEyeball]

My guess it's an issue for less emotionally mature men who are unable to empathize with the sentiment. They can only imagine themselves becoming enraged if their partner is physically involved with another man. Emotional cheating is not imaginable - they can't conjure up the situation in their head, let alone the hurtful emotions it would evoke.

 

And so they genuinely don't understand - at an emotional level - how much of an impact emotional cheating has on their partner. They believe her response to it is an overreaction. "I don't get upset at the idea of it, so why should you?"

[ThorntonMelon]

We know it's cheating.

 

But there's a chance you'll view it differently and not dump us. So we negotiate.

[lonewalker]

I dunno. But I am a guy. i guess i consider exchanging naked pictures cheating.

 

I don't want my gf to send nude pics of her to some guys.. So i wont do that to her either.

[salparadise]

I have to laugh when people make up word meanings to suit their own purpose based on how they feel about something. Here we have cheating and flirting becoming synonymous. Expanding the meaning suits the purpose of those whose spouses flirted by giving them better access to victim status, and the right to villianize the offender. Basically, they're attempting to lower the threshold by dicking around with semantics. If it weren't commonly understood to be sexual infidelity there wouldn't need to be a thread to redefine it.

 

This is what Webster says-

Cheat

transitive verb

1

: to deprive of something valuable by the use of deceit or fraud

2

: to influence or lead by deceit, trick, or artifice

3

: to elude or thwart by or as if by outwitting <cheat death>

intransitive verb

1

a : to practice fraud or trickery

b : to violate rules dishonestly <cheat at cards> <cheating on a test>

2

: to be sexually unfaithful —usually used with on <was cheating on his wife>

3

: to position oneself defensively near a particular area in anticipation of a play in that area <the shortstop was cheating toward second base>

[carhill]

Flirting with another person while in a committed and exclusive relationship relates to:

 

transitive verb

1

: to deprive of something valuable by the use of deceit or fraud

 

If that flirting deprives the spouse or partner of the attention they would otherwise desire or receive (they decide that) and if the flirting is done surreptitiously.

 

An example of flirting which is acceptable is a couple splitting up at a party and one partner openly flirting with other party-goers and looking over at their spouse and winking and the spouse winking back in approval. This goes on all the time and is healthy in marriages where both spouses are on the same page. Being on the same page (agreeing) is the important part.

[me85]

I have to laugh when people make up word meanings to suit their own purpose based on how they feel about something. Here we have cheating and flirting becoming synonymous. Expanding the meaning suits the purpose of those whose spouses flirted by giving them better access to victim status, and the right to villianize the offender. Basically, they're attempting to lower the threshold by dicking around with semantics. If it weren't commonly understood to be sexual infidelity there wouldn't need to be a thread to redefine it.

 

This is what Webster says-

Cheat

transitive verb

1

: to deprive of something valuable by the use of deceit or fraud

2

: to influence or lead by deceit, trick, or artifice

3

: to elude or thwart by or as if by outwitting <cheat death>

intransitive verb

1

a : to practice fraud or trickery

b : to violate rules dishonestly <cheat at cards> <cheating on a test>

2

: to be sexually unfaithful —usually used with on <was cheating on his wife>

3

: to position oneself defensively near a particular area in anticipation of a play in that area <the shortstop was cheating toward second base>

 

Uh...I'm not in a RS & certainly not trying to attain "victim status." This isn't happening to me but I have come across men who do this sort of thing while in a RS. IMO it is a form of cheating, which is then being unfaithful. It violates trust on all accounts.

 

ThorntonMelon said it all. I for one think either that person is emotionally immature & really believes it to not be considered cheating or that they just don't care and want to gamble with how much they can get away/"negotiate" with.

[salparadise]

This isn't happening to me but I have come across men who do this sort of thing while in a RS. IMO it is a form of cheating, which is then being unfaithful. It violates trust on all accounts.

 

I won't argue that it's a violation of the spirit and intent of the marriage vows, or exclusivity agreement. I am not defending such behavior. All I am saying is that it does not meet the generally accepted definition of the word, and trying to expand the definition of the word to include it based on your personal feelings about such behavior is not valid.

 

For example, murder is the unlawful killing of another human being. But if you aim a gun and pull the trigger but the gun doesn't discharge, then it's not murder. If I am talking to someone and they say so and so's wife cheated on him, nobody ever asks if she got caught sending nude pics... they all know exactly what is meant because the word has a specific definition when used in this context (car hill).

[carhill]

I can breathe easy now because my exW didn't divorce me for having an affair because i never had an affair since my actions never rose to the definition of cheating and I definitely never had genital contact with anyone other than my wife. Additionally, I never performed any action in private that I didn't perform in front of her with the person in question. Whew!

 

My point is we can all offer our own opinions but the one which matters is that of the partner of the person allegedly engaging in inappropriate behavior. Their perspective controls in their relationship.

[TheyCallMeOx]

Actually, both men and women do this. Everyone tries to find loop holes in the system. People try to come up with something to make themselves feel better about doing it which is why I always establish what is "cheating" before a relationship even begins. Manipulation or cheating makes no difference to me, and that includes just regularly talking to a dude. I may never know a woman's intention for talking to a guy even though she may claim him as a "friend," but if we're all true with ourselves...we manipulate more often than we realize.

[salparadise]

My point is we can all offer our own opinions but the one which matters is that of the partner of the person allegedly engaging in inappropriate behavior. Their perspective controls in their relationship.

 

Oh I get that. It's obviously about their perspective. All I'm saying is that trying to rewrite the dictionary doesn't actually escalate the offense, which is the effect they're after.

 

If you walk into a lawyers office and say I want to file for divorce on grounds of adultery because my spouse cheated... then the lawyer asks if you caught them in the act and you say, well, they didn't actually phuk but he sent her a nude pic, can you imagine the look you'd get?

 

People can redefine it anyway they want in their own head if that serves their purpose, but that doesn't mean the word definition has changed for the rest of the world, and it doesn't accomplish anything. Language works because words have meanings that are universally understood.

 

Sending a nudie may feel like a betrayal, but it's not cheating.

[MissBee]

My guess it's an issue for less emotionally mature men who are unable to empathize with the sentiment. They can only imagine themselves becoming enraged if their partner is physically involved with another man. Emotional cheating is not imaginable - they can't conjure up the situation in their head, let alone the hurtful emotions it would evoke.

 

And so they genuinely don't understand - at an emotional level - how much of an impact emotional cheating has on their partner. They believe her response to it is an overreaction. "I don't get upset at the idea of it, so why should you?"

 

Best response yet.

[MissBee]

I have to laugh when people make up word meanings to suit their own purpose based on how they feel about something. Here we have cheating and flirting becoming synonymous. Expanding the meaning suits the purpose of those whose spouses flirted by giving them better access to victim status, and the right to villianize the offender. Basically, they're attempting to lower the threshold by dicking around with semantics. If it weren't commonly understood to be sexual infidelity there wouldn't need to be a thread to redefine it.

 

This is what Webster says-

Cheat

transitive verb

1

: to deprive of something valuable by the use of deceit or fraud

2

: to influence or lead by deceit, trick, or artifice

3

: to elude or thwart by or as if by outwitting <cheat death>

intransitive verb

1

a : to practice fraud or trickery

b : to violate rules dishonestly <cheat at cards> <cheating on a test>

2

: to be sexually unfaithful —usually used with on <was cheating on his wife>

3

: to position oneself defensively near a particular area in anticipation of a play in that area <the shortstop was cheating toward second base>

 

I suppose you didn't comprehend the other definitions which rely heavily upon deceit and disonesty or violating rules....which is what cheating also entails, deceiving and being dishonest with your partner. Most people sexting or engaged in an emotional relationship with another do so in secret and go out of their way to hide it, delete texts, gaslight etc.

 

You highlighted one aspect of the definition but failed to see how the other definitions also play into what is cheating and what people get upset about with regard to cheating.

[OwMyEyeball]

Oh I get that. It's obviously about their perspective. All I'm saying is that trying to rewrite the dictionary doesn't actually escalate the offense, which is the effect they're after.

 

If you walk into a lawyers office and say I want to file for divorce on grounds of adultery because my spouse cheated... then the lawyer asks if you caught them in the act and you say, well, they didn't actually phuk but he sent her a nude pic, can you imagine the look you'd get?

 

People can redefine it anyway they want in their own head if that serves their purpose, but that doesn't mean the word definition has changed for the rest of the world, and it doesn't accomplish anything. Language works because words have meanings that are universally understood.

 

Sending a nudie may feel like a betrayal, but it's not cheating.

Then what term would you use to describe the behaviour?

 

You yourself are taking a highly subjective term and throwing Webster's at the crowd as if the dictionary came directly from the word of God. This an Internet forum that gathers English-speakers from around the world to discuss matters of love, dating and relationships, not Common Law in whatever part of the world any one of us happens to be from. There's going to be a lot of overlap in terminology.

 

When you feel a sense of betrayal from a partner's actions in relation to a 'competing' member of your sex, you tend to feel a little bit cheated.

 

Your murder example helps to highlight the underlying emotions. When someone pulls a gun out and tries to shoot you, do you think the emotional reaction of everyone else involved would be much different? That attempted murder is somehow more socially acceptable than a successful one?

 

This isn't a courtroom. Everyone else seems to have comprehended what the OP was getting at. You're the one turning this into an argument in semantics.

[carhill]

In defense of salparadise's perspective, it reflects that of much of the male components of my social circle, many of whom have laughed at my talk about our work in MC and my EA, the laughter being pretty equally divided between the two. To them cheating is plunging a penis into a vagina other than their wives. All the rest is simply 'fun' and being a man. And, yup, women (wives) tolerated/tolerate the behaviors because, in some of their words, this is men being men.

 

That's typical of my generation and demographic and, frankly, it's been the same with MW's, although those who used to grab my ass or touch my other parts probably were stretching things a bit thin. There's a wide variety of behaviors I might view as inappropriate that others definitely do not, and I certainly engaged in my fair share of them, understanding that they violated my code of ethics and apparently were offensive to my spouse.

 

What remains is whether the principals in the thread feel as my friends do, pretty much anything short of sex goes regardless of one's partner, or more aligned with my feelings, in that one's partner decides, presuming such behaviors don't violate one's personal code of ethics. There are always choices.

[salparadise]

In defense of salparadise's perspective, it reflects that of much of the male components of my social circle, many of whom have laughed at my talk about our work in MC and my EA, the laughter being pretty equally divided between the two. To them cheating is plunging a penis into a vagina other than their wives. All the rest is simply 'fun' and being a man. And, yup, women (wives) tolerated/tolerate the behaviors because, in some of their words, this is men being men.

 

Thanks Carhill- but even if you (and me and whomever else) consider texting nudies, sexting, grabbing ass or whatever to be extremely serious violations, a betrayal, abhorrent, abominable, atrocious (plus more adjectives), it is not equal to committing the ultimate violation which is to have sexual intercourse. Just as a ten story building is not a skyscraper, texting a nudie is not cheating.

 

Words are how we symbolically draw distinctions in both thought and transmittal of ideas. What this thread is about is an attempt to escalate the seriousness of said nudie, to blur the distinction between abhorrent forms of flirting and outright cheating based on someone's feelings of moral outrage.

 

So I am not trying to minimize the seriousness or hurt inflicted upon a spouse by texting nudies to someone else, but saying no, you cannot eliminate either the moral or linguistic distinctions by posting a thread on LoveShack and getting a handful of moralistic right-wingers to agree.

[2.50 a gallon]

sending nudies is cheating

As for divorce, most states have now adapted the "No Fault" rule, and adultery or cheating has little to do with the outcome.

[dichotomy]

My question for the fellas (even if you don't rationalize it this way) is how come a lot of guys think it's only considered cheating if they're actually physically involved with another girl and think that it's not cheating if they're "just" sexting/calling/exchanging provocative pictures?

 

What's your take on this?

 

As a guy -

 

Exchanging sexual words of interest (sexting), and especially self naked or suggestive pictures with another woman would be cheating period. I don't know any married guy personally who could/would tell me other wise with a straight face.

 

Now - it gets grey more when we take sex out of it all together, and begin to discuss at what level does emotional conversations and words become cheating with someone not your spouse, but I know it when I see it.

Edited August 17, 2014 by dichotomy

[StanMusial]

It's cheating.

 

Only a politician would say otherwise.

[marcjb]

This is why opposite gender "friendships" while in a relationship that aren't mutual to the relationship is not acceptable. Certainly not one where it's the person's ex, or any kind of intimate involvement has happened before. Acquaintances are ok, but nothing more. If the person wants to act single, they need to stay single.

Edited August 17, 2014 by marcjb

[me85]

I really do appreciate everyone's responses. Thanks all! I think it's a good topic regarding RSs.

[spiderowl]

From chatting to guys online, there are a fair few who don't consider 'cheating' to be cheating if they never intend to leave their wives; in other words, if they are just playing around with an affair. In their own heads, they are being 'faithful' in some bizarre way. What they think they are offering the 'other woman' is anyone's guess as they are often looking for 'chat, fun, friendship and more'. So, they are also looking for emotional involvement outside marriage, basically two relationships - one of which is stable and lasting, one which is a bit of fun on the side.