She showed me her art. I dunno what to feel?

[Fondue]

Hi guys, thanks for reading my thread .

 

I get some great advice here whenever I post, so why not try again?

 

Anyway, my GF of 1+ year showed her art portfolio last night (this is the first time she introduced me to it). When we first started dating, she told me she didn't want me to see it. She wasn't comfortable with that yet. Which I completely understood and left it. I never got curious beyond that because I would have been very private about something like that, too.

 

I watched her submit her art applications, even use my computer for her editing and compilations of her work to be sent out, all throughout the year. She's finally got accepted to a great graduate school a few months ago and we'll be leaving for the west coast together in the fall. We will move in together (first time) and blahblahblahblahblah.

 

So a few weeks ago, she remembered I never seen her work. She told she's comfortable with it and would like me to take a look. We agreed that we'd take a look sometime soon and went on about our business for the day. Last night she emails me a link to her website (which entirely her art portfolio).

 

Long story short, I was a bit off-put by it. Most of her work is video and performance kind of stuff. While some of it is "funny" in an odd way, a lot of it is a very dark side of her that I never seen. Some of the dialogue she uses in her art references what seems to be pansexual (or at least gender ambiguous) personality. A lot of it also seems to have a theme of feminism and how she's just a sex object and describes a females that are used for such. It seems like she feels like a vulnerable woman, or whatever. ANd how men are devious in some way.

 

It's hard to explain, but that's really what it is about.

 

It was especially weird to see because I am comparing some of these sexual (and non-sexual) themes to our relationship. One of her videos that is strongly about the objectification of women and sex, it was odd to see how she feels about it personality but when we're together, it's she actually LOVES to feel like a sex object and be "used." That's one of the big sexual things we play off of. She absolutely loves being dominated in that way. So I don't know if her art is different from who she is outside of it, or have I just been misinterpreting everything? I have no idea.

 

There was even one scene in one of her little movies that looked like a seeds (mixed in a paste) that was being dropped and smeared on the face of a doll and then smeared all over the place. Made me think of a facial (seed being sprayed on one's face). Again, without getting too much personal detail, she actually enjoys that in person. In her movie, it seemed like an object of disgust and felt like it was done so to in a negative way. I dunno if these things are conflicting, or they're not related.

 

Anyway, I haven't gotten through all of it yet because it's just hard. I was trying really hard to watch her videos yesterday, but all I got was more shocked and felt awkward about it.

 

I guess what I am saying is "I can't unsee that." It gives me a completely different view of WHO she is. Or maybe, is the person I am seeing in person different?

 

Anyone find themselves in a similar situation? What should I do? I don't want to look at her differently, but I think that might be unavoidable.

 

I emailed her about a few thoughts on her videos (much less than I mentioned here), she feels vulnerable now and wants to talk to me about it in person instead.

 

Anyway, I guess I just wanted to let out a few thoughts. Maybe see what you guys think.

[Allumere]

I think this offers a great opportunity for deeper conversations. Ask her questions about the pieces you viewed...the more detailed the better. One, it shows that you really did take the time to look at her work and didn't have it running in the background as you scrubbed the bathroom floor. Two, you are asking her about her thoughts, opinions, and inspirations. Talk about the contrast you see and ask her about it. As long as you don't come across as judgmental you may be able to learn a great deal more about this woman and realize just how unique and complex she is.

[Standard-Fare]

Interesting situation. I think you need to be very delicate and make sure not to make her feel judged or attacked in any way. She's bound to get super defensive about this topic. So keep up a positive, supportive tone even if that's not exactly how you feel.

 

But I think you also should open the conversation about how her art allows you to see a completely different side of her. You could venture into something like: "Your art shows me that you have some conflicting ideas about your sexuality," encouraging her to talk more about that if she wants.

 

I also think you can question her to make sure nothing in her art is a direct negative response to any aspect of her sexual relationship with YOU. Tell her you've been a little worried about that.

[HeartbrokenNewbie]

Art is just an over the top way of expressing and describing I wouldnt read too much into it x

[smackie9]

I'm an artist and this is what some art is about, to get a reaction, to get people to feel. Some will paint pretty crowd pleasing pictures (those don't get you into art school), and others explore subjects that are taboo to get people talking about it. When getting into an art college, you need to be different, original, so you stand out from the vanilla.

 

You don't need to express concern about her mental health, she is an artist, and you wouldn't understand anything about the creativity that goes into it.

 

Just congratulate her on getting into this school and that she gets to expand her creative energy.

 

There is nothing wrong with telling her some of the stuff is shocking, but follow up with, "I'm sure that is the reaction you are trying for and it works lol..."

[Art_Critic]

Be kind to her......

[still_an_Angel]

You need to talk to her about how her work affected you. How you interpreted her art might be different from what she actually wanted to express. While I'm no artist, I do express my 'creativity' through writing. Like your gf, it took me some time to let my partner read my stuff. While for me it's how I view the world and these are my thoughts, it actually came across quite negatively to him. I was aghast, I couldn't see how he interpreted my work as dark and was really shocked when he said it hurt him as he felt it was aimed at him. He said he didn't realize there's this side of me. We actually talked about this for hours as I felt he has grossly misinterpreted my work (and quietly thinking that he only saw a sample of what I've written).

 

We are in a D/s relationship so hearing his take on what I've written as 'dark' confused me because communication is a key element on what makes our relationship work. So I've always thought our lines were pretty great. But it truly affected him and how he viewed me, and while he sorted himself as he 'reconciled' this dark side of me and all the sides that he knows, we actually went pure vanilla during that time. It made me realize how deep it has affected him.

[preraph]

Whether it's performance art, a painting, song lyrics, a poem or whatever, always remember that the artistic outpouring is taken from the totality of the soul. It's usually never about one person or one thing, though one person may have triggered it, but those abstractions come from a collective place inside the artist all mingled together. I have had songs I'm told here "sort of" written about me. One was a song about motorcycles because I had talked to an artist about riding and it inspired him to write a riding song, so I sort of inspired it, but it wasn't about me really, but the way it all made him feel. Another song had to be about me and some other woman, real or imagined because all the details weren't my details.

 

So whatever she's doing is expressing herself, not expressing her direct feelings about you. This may be something she's working out from decades before. It really doesn't matter because as long as you get along, that's all that matters.

[MoreCoffee]

Some of the strongest, most independent women, (I mean the kind that fire people for a living,) I've ever dated wanted to be treated like an absolute whore in the bedroom. If they chew people up and spit them out for a living they want to feel helpless/used/dirty behind closed doors.

[Fondue]

Hey guys, thanks for all your replies thus far.

 

I just got back from work and she was already at my house, so while she's sitting down entranced by CHOPPED, I decided to make a quick post.

 

So I haven't spoken to her about it yet. I think I don't really want to discuss it right now-- at least not until I finish viewing all her work and interpreting it. She hasn't approached me about it yet either today, but I feel like she's a bit quiet right now. So I guess that works for me.

 

On the other hand, she usually gets a little quiet like this when she's feeling unsure of herself or if she's a bit upset. I think I might have upset her yesterday by my comments. She's feeling vulnerable, so I dunno if I should approach her about it.

 

I told her we're gonna go play a game of tennis after this episode of her show, so hopefully that cheers her up.

 

Do you guys honestly think her art is a way to make someone feel, or is it really something that is a part of HER. Maybe it is who SHE really is? Her art portrays her as a really different person.

 

I kind of wish I saw it earlier, I probably would have been a bit more cautious with her.

 

Be kind to her......

 

What exactly do you mean by this?

[Smilecharmer]

Hey guys, thanks for all your replies thus far.

 

I just got back from work and she was already at my house, so while she's sitting down entranced by CHOPPED, I decided to make a quick post.

 

So I haven't spoken to her about it yet. I think I don't really want to discuss it right now-- at least not until I finish viewing all her work and interpreting it. She hasn't approached me about it yet either today, but I feel like she's a bit quiet right now. So I guess that works for me.

 

On the other hand, she usually gets a little quiet like this when she's feeling unsure of herself or if she's a bit upset. I think I might have upset her yesterday by my comments. She's feeling vulnerable, so I dunno if I should approach her about it.

 

I told her we're gonna go play a game of tennis after this episode of her show, so hopefully that cheers her up.

 

Do you guys honestly think her art is a way to make someone feel, or is it really something that is a part of HER. Maybe it is who SHE really is? Her art portrays her as a really different person.

 

I kind of wish I saw it earlier, I probably would have been a bit more cautious with her.

 

 

 

What exactly do you mean by this?

 

This is just my opinion as an artist myself. Her art is a part of her. She trusts you but women usually have many feelings about sex and men that doesn't translate to our mates or husbands. She is expressing herself as she sees certain aspects of the world, but if she loses herself in submissiveness with you, it has nothing to do with you. That she can be submissive with you and be dirty in the bedroom shows that you have earned her trust and respect so she doesn't need to be in guard with you.

My husband and I have accepted a long time ago that we do not need to have black and white thoughts on everything or understand the others viewpoint completely in order to share our lives. I'm creative, he's logical and sometimes we disagree completely on the state of the world. Yet, we agree completely on the things that directly affects us because general thought processes don't always correlate with our feelings about our relationship or our feelings for each other.

Trust me when I say this, do not broach this any further except to talk about how interesting her art is. I know if my husband started attacking my ideologies which has nothing to do directly with him, I would never share anything with him again. Art is very personal and it is the deepest parts of ourself that we expose. She sees the misogyny in the world, women being treated as sexual objects and so do I. However, that part of the world has nothing to do with my husband who isn't anything like that. Honesty is overrated here because this isn't about logical discussion but feelings and you cannot dictate or express those from a different platform and expect her to feel warm and fuzzy over your criticism.

If you have questions about her messages in the art, ask her about it seperately with no connection to the art. However, if she is any thing like me, this is a generalization of how the world of women is viewed by some creative, independent women.

Edited August 15, 2014 by Smilecharmer

[Supernatural]

I'm an artist -- writer, actor, photography.... And paint for fun.

 

The creative and artistic field is all about exploring. Even when you find what works... You still explore that realm.

 

When I act... I love playing villains, the bad guy, the darker and intense guy (my look also supports this). I really enjoy being someone completely opposite than who I am from my day to day life. I feel more free. And it's more exciting... The hero is boring.

 

Except for Batman... Because he's Batman.

 

She's exploring her darker side... Which in turn will deepen her inner well of the lighter and more beautiful things.

 

 

Your girl sounds pretty great. I wouldn't think too much about her art. It has nothing to do with yours and her relationship. So don't collide the two worlds. We don't have to understand or embrace a partner 100% when we can barely embrace our own self. You just have to support her and believe in her as a person. The art is secondary.

Edited August 15, 2014 by Supernatural

[Art_Critic]

What exactly do you mean by this?

 

 

She wasn't comfortable with that yet.

Long story short, I was a bit off-put by it.

 

I emailed her about a few thoughts on her videos (much less than I mentioned here), she feels vulnerable now and wants to talk to me about it in person instead.

 

She already feels you are not accepting of her art and she values your opinion as her SO and lover...

If you rake her over the coals about this and let her have your true opinion it will tear her down, it's your job to build her up at times when she needs it and she needs it now.

 

By saying be kind to her I meant don't be mean to her, pull a punch or 2 and don't hurt her feelings or you will either ruin the trust she is working on building with you or you will break up.

[smackie9]

If she does a lot of video work, her imagery is so needed in the film indusrty and I bet that's why they snatched her up....there's too many movies that are developed with rehashed buckets of crap they store at the back of the studios.

[MuddyFootprints]

You are supposed to feel what you feel. That is the job of an artist. They want their work to inspire thought and emotion. Cutting edge art usually includes some degree of shock value.

 

Don't take her expression or her artistic statements personally. Be a neutral critic of her art. Express how it makes you feel as a person, not how it makes you feel as her lover.

[HeartbrokenNewbie]

I drew a picture of my ex with an axe in his head but I wouldnt really do it...

[Eternal Sunshine]

I don't think it's "just art" as in trying to be different without much connection to who she is. Art is a way to express deeper sides to your personality and it looks like she has a dark side and is probably a very complex individual.

 

We are sociliezed to think that the dark side should be hidden and we are all supposed to be happy and fun and bubbly and positive So many people seem express that to fit in and hide the darker side.

 

As someone that has a dark side, every guy I dated didn't like it so I became very cautious of when/how to express it.

[todreaminblue]

one reason why i wait years to show guys i care about private poetry or my art, is partly their reactions to seeing me exposed my dreams my feelings my hearts desires...or my darkness........ i have public and then i have private.....

 

private is the stuff of dreams and my imagination it is feelings i cant express without making others uncomfortable...i dont often share it ...in fact i have shared it once.....i did something stupid and made public one of my poems.....called "she" it was about a hooker, the hooker was me, i killed her off in the poem because that part of me did die many times......i wanted her to die

 

 

she made herself really vulnerable to you and you are having now an adverse reaction to her opening up to you....i dont know about your gf but i know that my art is the stuff of dreams and feelings that i dont express or share......her portfolio is public though

 

 

of course she wants to discuss it with you in person she is feeling anxious now and knowing that you dont understand it...she wants to see your face when she talks about her art.....took her over a year to show you. be very subtle in what you say to your gf who is also an artist dont be blunt even if she asks you too......tell her it surprised you ....you are not quite sure you get it totally, to appreciate it.....but you appreciate her vision...because your opinion could break her or make her...dont do the breaking thing allow the critics who arent close to her heart to do that....deb

[MuddyFootprints]

Sometimes people who are close to us want to read too much into artistic expression.

[Ruby Slippers]

I wouldn't read too much into the themes of her work. You two are in your 20s, right? She's just starting to explore her own psyche, who she is.

 

Though you say she enjoys being objectified sexually, she seems to be exploring and expressing her conflicted feelings about the matter. That sounds very normal to me. The top 3 sexual fantasies for women all relate to some form of being dominated - but our culture brainwashes us with all these messages about what a modern woman should and should not enjoy. It takes time to reconcile one's nature with the BS programming we are fed.

 

If you love her, I strongly suggest that you be very delicate in critiquing her art. Try to be curious about it rather than judgmental. Focus on the technique, how effectively she's expressing, communicating, influencing with her work, rather than focusing on what it means, what it's about.

 

I'm a creative person, and unless my guy makes an effort to understand and appreciate my creativity, I see no future with him.

[acapelo_dp]

Don't read too much into it. My boyfriend does art and also does writing. At times he lets me see it, and some of it is well...strange. But who am I to judge? He's amazing at it. What a person does art-wise doesn't mean they are like that. It's a form of expression.

[lollipopspot]

Though you say she enjoys being objectified sexually, she seems to be exploring and expressing her conflicted feelings about the matter. That sounds very normal to me. The top 3 sexual fantasies for women all relate to some form of being dominated - but our culture brainwashes us with all these messages about what a modern woman should and should not enjoy. It takes time to reconcile one's nature with the BS programming we are fed.

 

I believe it's actually the reverse. If women are "programmed," it's to be sexually submissive. "One's nature" sexually is in large part a product of culture and influences. From what he writes about the content of her work, she's more evidently working through THAT programming and what it means, not some "BS programming" that says she should or shouldn't enjoy it. It's a deeper level of analysis to question the roots of one's desires than to question if society likes it or not.

[chimpanA-2-chimpanZ]

There is no contradiction between despising the objectification of women and also wanting to be treated as a sex object. None. You know why? In the first case, women are being used as sex objects by unknown men/society/advertising/whatever. In the second case, she's being used as a sex object because that's what she wants.

 

Here's another way of considering the difference. Think about a very sexy-looking woman on a public train. Today she isn't wearing any underwear because she's going to go out to dinner with her boyfriend. Midway through the meal she's going to let it slip that she's not wearing any panties, and he's going to go insane, and they'll go home and go at it like wild animals. Now just because she's doing sexy things for a certain man doesn't mean that she's doing them for ALL men. Just because she looks super-hot tonight doesn't mean that she's down for sex with anyone and everyone. She wants to be sexy with her chosen partner on her chosen time; she doesn't want other random strangers to decide she's a sex object.

 

People like what they like. As soon as I started having sex I experimented (safely!) with pretty much every possible style and realized that I really love to be dominated. I think it's hot when a man I love, trust, respect and adore treats me like a little insert-dirty-name-of-your-choice. That's what I want because it gets me off, not because society told me to want it.

 

Feminism is about many things, but a big part of it is giving women freedom to do what makes them happy. For some women that's domination, for others it's submission, for others it's switching back and forth, for others it's literally anything and everything. Who knows? Your girlfriend sounds pretty cool. Maybe you should spend some time thinking about why her art bothers you so much rather than just obsess over your gut reaction of "this bothers me".

[FitChick]

I'd worry less about her art than her going into debt and being unable to get a job afterward while living with you. Unless she is planning to teach.