Cutting all contact with ex wife <dating a divorced person>

[turning_violet]

I've read some of the other posts on this general topic.

 

Specific and relevant details to this situation are that he has only been divorced for 6 months and their marriage ended "badly" (she cheated on him). Neither one of them has any children.

 

A few weeks ago she called him and left him a VM to let him know she was moving to another town and didn't want him to "hear it through the grapevine"

 

We've been dating 6 months and talked about marriage, future, etc. at length. I told him when we started dating that it was important to me that he have closure with his ex and he told me that his intention was to "disappear from her life"

 

After that call, I asked him what he would do in the what-if scenario that we got engaged in 2 months. . . . .. ie, was he worried about her hearing that through the grapevine. He said that if we got engaged he would call her to tell her.

 

I stepped back hard and told him that I was uncomfortable with that and that it contradicted what I understood previously. He told me that I was right and that he wanted to shed that baggage, but that wasn't enough for me to feel good about just going forward with some additional actions on his part.

 

I have now asked him to

a) cut off all contact with her in any way shape or form

b) go to counseling either with or without me to figure out why he was still holding on

 

He argues that I don't trust him. I argue that he has to earn my trust that he can be solid in dealing with his ex.

 

Thoughts appreciated

[Priv]

I think you are overreacting.

 

 

Demand to cut off all contact + counselling because in the hypothetical scenario you two get engaged he would tell his ex wife about it is well ummm... see above.

[turning_violet]

Even if he previously stated the intention to "disappear completely from her life"? If we had never talked about it before I wouldn't react to his comment, but the contradiction is what bothers me. Just sayin

[GorillaTheater]

In his shoes, I'm not sure why he would want to speak with his ex under any circumstances, but it sounds like he agreed with you on that point after a little discussion.

 

But I also don't understand why this is so important to you, why it's causing you such a problem that he even contemplated telling his ex that you were engaged in response to a hypothetical question. Do you feel threatened by her in any way?

[turning_violet]

GorillaTheater, I actually don't think that she is interested in him anymore, but I think he has trouble letting go whatever piece remains in his feelings towards her.

 

I should point out that in addition to just "agreeing with me", he admitted that he seems symptoms of emotional abuse in his past relationship with her. Probable shouldve added that in before. . . .

[GorillaTheater]

GorillaTheater, I actually don't think that she is interested in him anymore, but I think he has trouble letting go whatever piece remains in his feelings towards her.

 

Unless you have some other evidence, I don't think you have enough to say that he's having trouble letting go. That said, you might be right, of course. The divorce is still pretty fresh, and he's probably still processing what happened. But that's being human, not necessary "wishy washy" if that's your concern.

 

I should point out that in addition to just "agreeing with me", he admitted that he seems symptoms of emotional abuse in his past relationship with her. Probable shouldve added that in before. . . .

 

It might mean he's a little co-dependent, if he put up with it in the first place.

 

I'd give him more time to process what was likely the most traumatic event of his life, and frankly wouldn't worry about it that much.

[turning_violet]

He also lied to me about the call from his ex. and then later admitted she contacted him.

 

He apologized for the lie, but it does bring up other questions for me.

[mightycpa]

You've been dating basically since the ink was drying on the divorce papers. He got cheated on, and after six months, you're talking about marriage. My first thought, even though you didn't ask about that, is that you should give careful thought to whether this is wise. Is it wise to talk about marriage after only 6 months of dating anybody? The law of large numbers says NO.

 

To the matter at issue:

 

On the one hand, you seem to understand that marriage is about forsaking all others. On the other hand, you seem to ignore that he made that promise once already, and his partner reneged on the deal, and you're giving him a bad time for having some difficulty with strict separation. It sounds like the divorce was forced upon him. He may just need more time.

 

He's right. You don't trust him, and you've validated that by explaining he has to earn your trust.

 

Maybe it is just civil between them, and they don't want to cause each other any more hurt than has already been caused. I think it is a lot to ask somebody to cut off all contact with an ex-spouse, unless you're the ex-spouse.

 

His instincts may indicate a desire for reconciliation, or this may simply be a harmless temporary way of letting go that you can't live with. Maybe if he tells her he's getting married again, she will know better than to contact him again, and he'll feel like he did the right thing. You seem to insist that he gets there your way.

 

The bad news is that you are insecure. Your warning at the beginning of the relationship, ie, the day after he divorced, speaks directly to this. Frankly, given your qualms, you should have known better than to get involved so early on. I think you bear some responsibility in this. The good news is that you recognize your insecurity.

 

The question is can you really ever get over his past? If his ex-wife calls him in 5 years to tell him that her mother died, and he wants to go to the funeral out of respect for that person, will that sit well with you? There are more relationships at play than the primary one. Even after divorce, your in-laws are still your in-laws. Those relationships aren't severed, either personally or legally.

 

It doesn't sound like you're ready to take on this situation. Sorry.

[GorillaTheater]

You keep trickling facts into this situation which are fairly important.

 

Yes, it was wrong of him to lie and you are right to be concerned about that, but I think it's relevant to know why he lied. Was it because of any residual feelings towards her, or was it to keep out of hot water with you? Neither are great reasons, but the latter should be less concerning and might make you reflect on whether you're being too much of a, bluntly, hardass about the situation.

 

I think the correct move would be No Contact in this situation, but how far are you willing to go to ensure that there's none, even fairly innocuous communications like "I'm moving" or "I'm getting engaged"? Is strict NC a condition of you continuing you relationship with him?

[turning_violet]

I should point out that the first mention , and almost all subsequent mentions of marriage were initiated by him.

 

He was the one who insisted he already had closure and was ready to move on.

 

I'm not saying that I don't deserve blame for should have "known better" than to believe him, but I am saying that the responsibility lies on him for pretending if that was the case.

[mightycpa]

well, with all due respect, I think, if for no other reason than self-preservation, it is your responsibility to tamp down the talk about marriage after only 6 months. It is one thing for him to mention it, and that is his responsibility. You accept responsibility if you entertain the conversation.

 

From what little you've told us, it is a big leap to believe he's pretending. He may have lied to you because he knew you'd take this "nothing" and blow it up into a big deal. You might have that problem on your hands, rather than the one you think you have.

 

EDIT: Suggestion: Ask him why he lied to you about the call. And tell us how this lie came about. Or was it a lie of omission?

 

It will say a lot about your relationship if the story goes like this:

 

F: Honey, did your ex call you?

M: No.

F: Then why is the message she left for you on VM gone?

Edited August 14, 2014 by mightycpa
followup

[turning_violet]

Yes, most definitely the whole idea of getting married in another few months is no longer on the table the way that it was previously.

 

As for how the lie came about, I simply asked him a few additional questions after he said that he had no contact with her and I questioned what that actually meant. He then said "what do you want from me", to which I replied "I just want the truth", not knowing he was about to admit to having flat out lied. If it's "nothing" then why lie about it at all?

 

The lie isn't the only thing that bothers me. I feel him telling me that he was going to disappear from her life was one picture, and him wanting to now stay in contact with her (even just to keep tabs on major life events) is a different one. As I stated earlier, I feel he has responsibility for that inconsistency and at the least should have known it was an important issue for me.

 

While I am really grateful for all the feedback, it feels like everyone is trying to let him off the hook for having bought the ticket if he can't take the ride.

[turning_violet]

I'm sorry as I re-red your last comment and now understand what you meant (I think)

 

Yes, it should have been on me to not "entertain" the talk about marriage so soon. So I own up to that.

[mightycpa]

I simply asked him a few additional questions after he said that he had no contact with her and I questioned what that actually meant.

 

Of course, I don't know, because you might be leaving some things out, but from what you describe, and from the upset you feel for what seems like such a trivial thing, this is what I'm getting out of what you're telling us:

 

F: Have you heard from Matilda lately?

M : (in his head: Oh God, here it comes. I'll try not to lie, but I don't want a big fight)

M: I have had no contact with her.

F: What do you mean by that? Have you heard from her?

M: (in his head: OMG! That's not what you asked me at first! I knew it! I guess I have to come clean)

M: Well, she left me a voicemail, but I haven't called her back.

F: What did she want?

M: She wanted to let me know she was moving, so that I wouldn't hear it through the grapevine.

F: AHA! LIAR!

 

This sounds about right, because, as you say, you don't trust him. I get the feeling you knew about the VM before you started asking questions, and you a trap for him, to see how much info he'd volunteer. He failed your test because he was not fully forthcoming at first. I think he's getting to know you, and he didn't want to open this can of worms.

 

This all points to poor communication, and not working through this in good faith. You want him to do it your way. You interpret "disappear" to mean "hide". "Disappear" might mean something different to him, like "not make myself visible".

 

I could be 100% wrong, all this, but even if I am, I'll offer you this advice:

 

I'd much rather have a SO that could meet with an ex and be friendly and indifferent, than one who takes pains to avoid the ex. Your best move might be to invite that ex over before she leaves so that he can say his final goodbyes. You can watch to see how he reacts to her, how he looks at her, and how she looks at him. That should tell you everything you need to know, and it could put you completely at ease. Then it won't matter if he talks to her ever again or not. Then, be clear about the ground rules.

 

They might have to discuss something having to do with a tax return in the future, or one might need a signature from the other, you never know. You'd better be prepared.

 

It's just a thought.

[MissBee]

It is normal for someone if they're divorced only 6 months to still be going through a process of moving on from their ex.

 

I mean even in unmarried dating relationships it will often take people more than 6 months to completely move on...so I imagine a marriage with all the ties it contains will be no different, if not more difficult.

 

Personally, I would expect this and would thus avoid dating anyone newly divorced. That way I wouldn't be jealous or upset over what may be a normal and natural process of detaching. If it was years since they divorced and their relationship was like this I'd be more concerned, but 6 months, it seems within reason. I also think it premature to be talking marriage with him....

 

I'd say allow him more space and take things A LOT slower and see if overtime it makes a difference.

[turning_violet]

I don't disagree with your comment MissBee, but since I'm already where I am at now, I'm curious what you think would be a way to 'downshift' the relationship

 

Or were you suggesting that I just break this off for now and go slower when we resume or with the next relationship?

[carhill]

Thoughts appreciated

 

Overall, signs of irreconcilable differences regarding relationship styles.

 

Statements in support:

 

"their marriage ended "badly" (she cheated on him)"

"he told me that his intention was to "disappear from her life""

 

"He said that if we got engaged he would call her to tell her."

 

Something seems fishy here. That said, IMO your ultimatum did little to de-escalate things. Regardless of how this resolves, perhaps that particular approach could be assessed and fine-tuned for further interactions with this or another man.

 

Finally, since you've made your request, did you attach consequences and are you prepared to execute the consequences? This is important when using such approaches.

 

My overall feel is that he and his ex have 'unfinished business' and that could pose a problem in your future relationship beyond what has already been perceived. I read that in the vacillation of his own words.

[acrosstheuniverse]

I'd much rather have a SO that could meet with an ex and be friendly and indifferent, than one who takes pains to avoid the ex. Your best move might be to invite that ex over before she leaves so that he can say his final goodbyes. You can watch to see how he reacts to her, how he looks at her, and how she looks at him. That should tell you everything you need to know, and it could put you completely at ease. Then it won't matter if he talks to her ever again or not. Then, be clear about the ground rules.

 

They might have to discuss something having to do with a tax return in the future, or one might need a signature from the other, you never know. You'd better be prepared.

 

It's just a thought.

 

I doubt the boyfriend would allow the OP and the ex-wife in the same room based on how the OP is reacting to even minimal contact between the two, I bet it'd be his worst nightmare, and I don't think the OP could handle it either.

 

OP, I'm sorry to be harsh but I think by choosing to date a man the same month he gets divorced, you're now acting ridiculous in demanding zero contact and getting upset about them being in touch. If they'd been separated a year or two, maybe, but you started dating when the divorce went through so you should really have made sure back then that you were okay with all that dating a totally freshly divorced man has to offer.

 

Marriage is a complex, legal issue. As the quoted poster also states, they might need to meet to sign a document, to swap a bill over, to change an old dusty joint account back into sole, to break bad news about family members the other person was particularly close to, to pass on good news about their futures (I don't think it's particularly out of order to feel like you'd rather clue your ex in if you are getting married again or having a baby, at some point you really loved and cared for that person and therefore it's reasonable to not want them to go through the pain of hearing it through the grapvine). Hell, it could be about a significant piece of old furniture one person wants rid of and wants to check if it's okay. There are a million reasons why ex-partners might need to get back in touch when they've had such a serious bond as a marriage.

 

It has taken me more than six months to get over a two year cohabiting relationship so I can't imagine how difficult getting over a divorce must be for somebody. It seems like plain crazy-talk trying to even allow a discussion on the table about marriage let alone be actually planning it! Six months is too soon for most scenarios and there's so much baggage in this situation. Are you sure that you're not running with the marriage idea because you feel so insecure that he actually married his ex, and you want him to show you that same level of commitment/love?

 

I don't particularly enjoy it when boyfriends of mine have much contact with their own exes, but that's precisely one of the reasons why I wouldn't entertain dating a guy who was literally divorcing as I met him. I suggest dialling this relationship right back. Tell him you don't want to hear anything more about marriage for at least a year because you're both rushing too quick, and then focus on just enjoying one another's company again, get back to less drama and stress and you might be able to preserve the relationship.

[turning_violet]

carhill, thank you!! I really appreciate that at least one person on this forum acknowledged that something is not right with the discrepancies in his words/behavior.

 

To answer your question, yes my continuing any relationship with him was contingent on a) no contact with the ex b) counseling. Not that it's a guarantee, but for me, that is the minimum I would need to go forward.

 

And by the way, no I didn't "set a trap" as I was accused of potentially doing.

I did however have a gut feeling, which I followed up on feeling that something wasn't right in what he was telling me and how he was saying it, and obviously that was the case.

 

acrosstheuniverse, I did say up front when I stared dating him that I need him to not be in contact with his ex. If my boyfriend had an issue with that it was on him to say it then.

 

While I completely appreciate and agree with everyone's point about the error of our ways in getting to this point (our- not just mine), we are here now and other than just walking away completely (definitely an option) I am looking for a potential path through this that leads to him resolving the unfinished business with his ex. There may not be a way, it may be too late, but that is where I am at- searching for that path.

Edited August 14, 2014 by turning_violet
add on

[ThorntonMelon]

Violet - I am struck by what you're looking for, at least what I think you're looking for.

 

You want him to have no feelings for his ex, you feel that he has such feelings, and you are wondering how to go about being in a relationship with him knowing that he has such feelings. Is that reasonably accurate?

 

If so, what I would say is that you have to figure out how to deal with this without saying a word to him about it. Every time it comes up, you push it into the forefront. The mistake you're making right now (if you can call it a mistake) is that you're making this about his feelings towards someone else as opposed to your feelings towards each other. He's clearly not trying to get back with her, if anything he's trying to spare your feelings about how to deal with a complicated scenario in his head.

 

I don't think he's done anything wrong except be 100% loyal to you, even if an omission of the truth was done - he clearly did it so you didn't worry about it. Your "must not contact the ex" request to me means they aren't staying in touch, or in each others lives. I just don't see him being disrespectful to you at all here.

[dogeared]

Saying that he wants to disappear from her life sounds really odd to me.

 

 

I think he is not over her, or not over the relationship, yet. Which, given that they've been divorced less than a year is understandable.

 

 

Add that to the fact that she called to tell him that she is moving, and that he would contact her if he got engaged.

[slizl]

He wants to tell his ex about the engagement because he doesn't want to deal with the Ex's wrath if she has to find out from someone else. Case closed.

[carhill]

OP, please pardon my cynicism (yep, divorce helped!):

 

Have you verified independently that one, he is divorced and, two, she cheated on him?

 

If you've verified the divorce part, you'll be able to see who filed. Him or her? Verification will also lay out a timeline, showing how long ago the lawsuit was filed, how the motions went and when the dissolution was, relevant to the filing date.

 

As an example, in our case our dissolution didn't occur for some 18 months after filing and my exW and long been living with another man before the divorce was final, as evidence of some people clearly moving on emotionally, even before the divorce is final. She's apparently still living with him four years later. However, she and I had no contact other than legal contact and no way would we be advising each other of our going's on in life.

 

If unverified, that's something to ponder/clarify, relevant to his current behaviors and words.

 

/cynicism

[FitChick]

Never date someone divorced less than two years.

[carhill]

While reasonable in theory, and I actually agree with the premise, had I adhered to that premise (I actually did during my twenties), I'd never have had a girlfriend nor gotten married. Women simply don't stay single anywhere near two years around here unless they clearly do not wish to have relations with any male (common in my current age group!). Most follow the pattern of my exW, where they get involved with someone else once the breakup is in evidence, regardless of the marriage resolution. My female friend (exW's best friend) who recently died was the same. Nothing transitory or tenuous. They simply move on to the next boyfriend or husband.

 

People, especially from what I've read here on LS, seem to think that men are more emotionally unstable and more likely to go back to, or seek out, their estranged wives or, at minimum, pine away for them and that can certainly happen. In this case, *if* the wife really cheated, and the H filed for D, that combination should, in most men, 'break the chain' of attachment. However, his apparent vacillation indicates that he may fall within the subgroup of instability, hence my caution, again presuming the facts are as presented. Anymore, I tend to question everything.

 

Scary version? He cheated, she filed and they're split up and living separately but he's feeling guilt over his actions and still wanting to keep some part of the romantic fires burning with the ex. Without verification, it's all left to the realm of belief and trust and things appear to be in flux right now in those departments.